Last DLC Pack has divided the community.

[Tino]

Isn't this community already been divided? It's nothing new really.

 

[KayaMarley]

You lost me at the first part. Reading comprehension, do you have it? Reliably is not the same as ease. The ease of Zoom cannot be understated as it...ahem LITERALLY GETS YOU BACK ON THE STAGE FROM ANYWHERE EXCEPT DIRECTLY UNDER THE STAGE. I don't think you understand my arguments enough to even argue against them, and they're not complicated ideas.

Allow me to try to chisel this into your mind.

Reliability is being able to count on something working the majority of the time, ease is the simplicity of the action. Zoom is not reliable, however when it is available, it is absolutely the easiest way to recover (that's to say nothing of the impending heart attack from trying to quickly tap the button so you don't fall to your death). It's one of the very few ways you don't have to interact with your opponent to get back onto the stage, and that lack of necessary interaction makes it so simple a caveman could do it, thus EASE.

I didn't say you did, I said you seem to be too personally attached to this character as you're coming at arguing in the way a hysteric parent would if you said something negatively about their child.

If that were your argument, you may have had a point. I was probably a tad hasty in saying that, it's better than Simon's, but I'm still not of the opinion her recovery is all that great as tethers are generally not very good.

A situation being stressful does not negate the ease of the action. Like trying to open your car with a key while you're being chased by someone, the action of unlocking the car is not made more difficult, you're just more stressed out by the situation so you make mistakes in your hurry.

What's to wrap my head around? Tethers are one dimensional recoveries that set you into a specific trajectory. The only thing unique about hers is that she can use it to wall jump, which I don't see getting used that often except in counterpick stages with walls.

The problem with your argument is that you have no real argument. At no point have you said anything more than "you must be bad because it's not bad, it's good, your wrong." That isn't an argument, it's an assertion. I'm completely open to the idea that I could be wrong, but you haven't presented anything except contradiction. Also, not entirely related, but it might do you some good, please learn to structure your paragraphs if you're going to argue with people on forums. Sifting through what you wrote is literally giving me a headache.

Lmao! I have given many reasons as to why the recovery is good, you just keep arguing invalid points. zoom being bad has nothing to do with making mistakes, it is only helpful in a minute amount of situations, of which it literally is a chance whether you can get it, and if your chance fails (not by skill, but by RNG) then your screwed. Your getting kinda salty about this, you thinking clearly, or are YOU incapable of reading? I haven't been hysteric, i've just been pointing out the facts, but hey if that helps you feel better, then sure, lmao. My point is that her recovery is one of the better in the game, and your argument was that it was worse than simon's, and when i pointed out how undeniably false this is, you backpedal. I dont know man, you sure your not then one getting hysterical here? also it should be noted that tether's arent anywhere near as bad as you think they are, considering Joker has been dominating the scene for quite sometime, who also has a tether (his is actually worse than Byleth's too.) the reason that I would still consider Joker better, is because he also has Arsene's recovery, which not only gives him two to work with, but also has one of the longest reaching recoveries in the game with invincibility (but that's not really the argument). My point is that Byleth's recovery has a lot of similar advantages that Joker's has, someone who is considered one of the best characters in the game, which a good recovery is almost essential for, and yet she has more versatility with her's than his. You like to say I don't have any argument, but I have given out plenty of arguments, you just like to ignore them with your hands to your ears, and say "ZoOm iS GoOd ThOuGh!" the one with absolutely no argument at all is you, and it isnt for a lack of an argument, it's for the simple fact that it's as false as it gets. Have you ever actually looked at the meta? also Counter pick stages are sort of a big deal, as it can help make the difference in a comeback. Byleth's recovery also allows her to go under the stage from one side and up the other, kind of an important ability. and since you seem to be in denial, here is recent footage of one of the best Fox players in the meta losing to Byleth at the grand finals of a smash tournament https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drVF8dEBhF8 . There's a difference between being attached to a character, and speaking up when someone spouts a bunch of BS, but hey, I guess thats all you can do. until the meta literally proves otherwise, you kinda are factually wrong, and seeing how this character just came out and did this well, i'd say i've made my point. quit trashing the character, adn actually learn to play them. also I suggest actually learning how to use tethers, since you seem to think they're bad, when they very clearly are not. one last thing, I made a point of telling you how to avoid being hit when tethering (which you so ignored, seems to be a common theme with you), which is the second you tether, you have invuln frames, pulling you into position, where you then stop to sit, tethered, waiting for an input to drag you back up. this is the point your worried about, which literally itsn't an issue, if you immediately press ANY button (just not down. DONT press down!). This will drag you back up the exact frame you'd be vulnerable, and gives you complete invincibility the whole recovery. This is why I say you need to play the character, because you literally don't have any idea what your talking about. here is the frame data for Byleth, it doesn't quite show what i'm talking about but the statistics are there https://ultimateframedata.com/byleth.php. Im sure you can find a video of what im talking about if you actually try, or you know, just do it yourself in game. smh.

It really depends on the situation, but it's normally fairly obvious what Byleth will do when they're trying to get back on the stage. The angle they recover at is odd, but predictable once you get to know it. Normally multihit moves (like Byleth Nair, ironically) make it pretty easy to knock her off when recovering from tether


I understood the point, it's just that Pwn's point was that Zoom outclasses Byleth's recovery IF YOU CAN GET IT. And if you're pressing Down B when Hero is at ledge level off screen, you better have just forgotten that Up-Special is a move that exists.

Most tethers are seen as pretty lackluster recovery options by many for the reason below v


You can get knocked out of your tether no matter how fast you mash the button, since i-frames don't come out until you touch the ledge physically. Most players are either expecting you to do just that, or will challenge it outright depending on the match up.


lol byleth horizontal recovery

Spoiler: Explanation

The move's main weakness. That it's vertical recovery is wild, but horizontally is lackluster unless you're close to the stage ledge.

You sure, boss?
Are you REALLY sure?
Considering the post replies, this is sus


If the argument was pointless, then why are you even bothering to respond? The majority of your responses to both of us is literally
"here's my point"
"I don't agree, here's why"
"why don't you actually play the character?"

It's also incredibly cute how you're insinuating that because we don't agree that we hate FE characters. Really gets that brain bogglin'. Gets that noggin joggin'.


We'll let you know when you find one.

His point was that Zoom was better, and it's not because of the reasons i gave, and only after I pointed this out did he change his wording around. There is a lot of different things that go into a recovery and whether it's good or not, or maybe he is incapable of realizing that? And no, you literally CANT get hit. I use it like this all the time and it's physically impossible if you press it instantly. The horizontal isn't an issue, as her recovery can even grab the ledge from above it. it can kinda cover the whole of off stage for the most part, and it's very rarely made ineffective. Oh I'm definitely sure he hasnt played her, or again, is just bad (tethers aint that hard chief). Sure I didn't have to respond, but I chose to because I feel it's a little ridiculous to spout nonsense like he's been doing. at the end of the day, your just as welcome to leave this thread. Also i feel it's worth noting that this thread is in fact about this character dividing the community, so this is actually well within the topic of discussion. I never said you two hate FE, but ok? I was simply stating that there has been backlash and that people have been using that as an excuse to call her bad, when for many of them that idea comes from them disliking the representation FE has in smash, not actually having anything to do with her skill. I was using this as an example and stating that this argument is most likely pointless because theres always the chance thats the kind of people you are. again, didnt say you were, just that it's possible, and im starting to think (at least with the other guy) that this is true. Either way you two are far too salty over being wrong. go look at the links I sent to the other guy. plenty of facts for you right there, since apparently nothing else i've said has sunk in. "Really gets that brain bogglin'." Yeah, you guys could use some extra brain-cells. don't just get salty because you dislike being proven wrong, learn to take it with some pride, and actually learn from it. smh, what a joke.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Lmao! I have given many reasons as to why the recovery is good, you just keep arguing invalid points. zoom being bad has nothing to do with making mistakes, it is only helpful in a minute amount of situations, of which it literally is a chance whether you can get it, and if your chance fails (not by skill, but by RNG) then your screwed. Your getting kinda salty about this, you thinking clearly, or are YOU incapable of reading? I haven't been hysteric, i've just been pointing out the facts, but hey if that helps you feel better, then sure, lmao. My point is that her recovery is one of the better in the game, and your argument was that it was worse than simon's, and when i pointed out how undeniably false this is, you backpedal. I dont know man, you sure your not then one getting hysterical here? also it should be noted that tether's arent anywhere near as bad as you think they are, considering Joker has been dominating the scene for quite sometime, who also has a tether (his is actually worse than Byleth's too.) the reason that I would still consider Joker better, is because he also has Arsene's recovery, which not only gives him two to work with, but also has one of the longest reaching recoveries in the game with invincibility (but that's not really the argument). My point is that Byleth's recovery has a lot of similar advantages that Joker's has, someone who is considered one of the best characters in the game, which a good recovery is almost essential for, and yet she has more versatility with her's than his. You like to say I don't have any argument, but I have given out plenty of arguments, you just like to ignore them with your hands to your ears, and say "ZoOm iS GoOd ThOuGh!" the one with absolutely no argument at all is you, and it isnt for a lack of an argument, it's for the simple fact that it's as false as it gets. Have you ever actually looked at the meta? also Counter pick stages are sort of a big deal, as it can help make the difference in a comeback. Byleth's recovery also allows her to go under the stage from one side and up the other, kind of an important ability. and since you seem to be in denial, here is recent footage of one of the best Fox players in the meta losing to Byleth at the grand finals of a smash tournament https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drVF8dEBhF8 . There's a difference between being attached to a character, and speaking up when someone spouts a bunch of BS, but hey, I guess thats all you can do. until the meta literally proves otherwise, you kinda are factually wrong, and seeing how this character just came out and did this well, i'd say i've made my point. quit trashing the character, adn actually learn to play them. also I suggest actually learning how to use tethers, since you seem to think they're bad, when they very clearly are not. one last thing, I made a point of telling you how to avoid being hit when tethering (which you so ignored, seems to be a common theme with you), which is the second you tether, you have invuln frames, pulling you into position, where you then stop to sit, tethered, waiting for an input to drag you back up. this is the point your worried about, which literally itsn't an issue, if you immediately press ANY button (just not down. DONT press down!). This will drag you back up the exact frame you'd be vulnerable, and gives you complete invincibility the whole recovery. This is why I say you need to play the character, because you literally don't have any idea what your talking about. here is the frame data for Byleth, it doesn't quite show what i'm talking about but the statistics are there https://ultimateframedata.com/byleth.php. Im sure you can find a video of what im talking about if you actually try, or you know, just do it yourself in game. smh.



His point was that Zoom was better, and it's not because of the reasons i gave, and only after I pointed this out did he change his wording around. There is a lot of different things that go into a recovery and whether it's good or not, or maybe he is incapable of realizing that? And no, you literally CANT get hit. I use it like this all the time and it's physically impossible if you press it instantly. The horizontal isn't an issue, as her recovery can even grab the ledge from above it. it can kinda cover the whole of off stage for the most part, and it's very rarely made ineffective. Oh I'm definitely sure he hasnt played her, or again, is just bad (tethers aint that hard chief). Sure I didn't have to respond, but I chose to because I feel it's a little ridiculous to spout nonsense like he's been doing. at the end of the day, your just as welcome to leave this thread. Also i feel it's worth noting that this thread is in fact about this character dividing the community, so this is actually well within the topic of discussion. I never said you two hate FE, but ok? I was simply stating that there has been backlash and that people have been using that as an excuse to call her bad, when for many of them that idea comes from them disliking the representation FE has in smash, not actually having anything to do with her skill. I was using this as an example and stating that this argument is most likely pointless because theres always the chance thats the kind of people you are. again, didnt say you were, just that it's possible, and im starting to think (at least with the other guy) that this is true. Either way you two are far too salty over being wrong. go look at the links I sent to the other guy. plenty of facts for you right there, since apparently nothing else i've said has sunk in. "Really gets that brain bogglin'." Yeah, you guys could use some extra brain-cells. don't just get salty because you dislike being proven wrong, learn to take it with some pride, and actually learn from it. smh, what a joke.

Hey, remember what I said about it being a pain to read what you write? It's a massive wall of text with no structure. You go from point to point without any break making it difficult to sift out what you're actually saying. it's like reading the ramblings of a mad man. I will repeat, LEARN TO STRUCTURE YOUR PARAGRAPHS.

The point was never that Zoom was good or that it should be relied on. The point was Zoom was easy. How have you missed that time after time after time. Do I have to physically pound it into your head so you can comprehend that there's a functional difference between something being reliable and thus good and something being easy? You're arguing against something completely separate from what I'm actually saying.

I have no interest in reading that long rant of yours or fixing it for you.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Returning to this thread to remind y'all that Sakurai himself agrees that there are too many Fire Emblem characters in Smash. Apparently he preferred a different character but Nintendo pushed him to add Byleth, without question to promote Three Houses, making this the only time anyone can accurately make the "stolen spot" argument. This also may be the reason we're about to have 6 characters instead of 5.

 

[MaddaD]

His point was that Zoom was better, and it's not because of the reasons i gave, and only after I pointed this out did he change his wording around. There is a lot of different things that go into a recovery and whether it's good or not, or maybe he is incapable of realizing that?

He didn't change it around, he reworded it because you couldn't understand his point (which is a common theme for both of us) and can't grasp anything topic that isn't "x good, y bad"

And no, you literally CANT get hit. I use it like this all the time and it's physically impossible if you press it instantly.

But you can get hit even if you press it instantly. You're not 100% immune on the way up and can get knocked off.

The horizontal isn't an issue, as her recovery can even grab the ledge from above it. it can kinda cover the whole of off stage for the most part, and it's very rarely made ineffective.

You missed the point entirely again. What happens if you get knocked so far away that you're nowhere near the ledge or stage to Up-B to? Do you still recover? You must considering that Byleth is the best character in the game, apparently.

Oh I'm definitely sure he hasnt played her, or again, is just bad (tethers aint that hard chief).

You handle points like my infant niece handles chinaware

Sure I didn't have to respond, but I chose to because I feel it's a little ridiculous to spout nonsense like he's been doing. at the end of the day, your just as welcome to leave this thread.

"This topic is pointless you guys."
"Why are you responding to it?"
"Because I had to! Why don't you leave then?"
"I don't wanna."
<--- (You Are Here)
"You're bad at the game."
*rage quit*

I never said you two hate FE, but ok?

You did explicitly with Pwn:

you sure your not just salty over her being added in? not trying to write you off but this statement about her recovery is making me seriously wonder.

-----

I was simply stating that there has been backlash and that people have been using that as an excuse to call her bad, when for many of them that idea comes from them disliking the representation FE has in smash, not actually having anything to do with her skill. I was using this as an example and stating that this argument is most likely pointless because theres always the chance thats the kind of people you are. again, didnt say you were, just that it's possible, and im starting to think (at least with the other guy) that this is true.

I mean yeah, I won't deny there are people like that, but the entire argument came from you saying her recovery was amazing (and accusing Pwn of being salty an FE character was added), us disagreeing, then you dodging/not understanding points until here we are

Either way you two are far too salty over being wrong. go look at the links I sent to the other guy. plenty of facts for you right there, since apparently nothing else i've said has sunk in. "Really gets that brain bogglin'."

You haven't linked to anything in this thread to anybody as far as I know. All I can see is some guy mistaking "lol u bad" and "git gud" as actual points for an argument

Yeah, you guys could use some extra brain-cells.

You could use an enter button and a Language Arts class. If you want, we could trade
I like your pupper though.

 

[meleebrawler]

Returning to this thread to remind y'all that Sakurai himself agrees that there are too many Fire Emblem characters in Smash. Apparently he preferred a different character but Nintendo pushed him to add Byleth, without question to promote Three Houses, making this the only time anyone can accurately make the "stolen spot" argument. This also may be the reason we're about to have 6 characters instead of 5.

BlackKite took a stab at the full column:

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr4sfq

Sounds like Byleth was picked because he would contrast with the rest: The first four fighters are characters who have made their debut in a past generation of consoles, and have a history behind them. Three Houses and Byleth, being current-gen, doesn't quite have that history just yet, and Byleth's ability to stand out from other swordfighters (since Fire Emblem produces a lot of them as-is) was helped out by the use of the House Leaders' relics + the fact that it would tie in to the Three Houses theme as well.

Also, it backs up PushDustin's tweet that what Sakurai said was that he understands the argument.

Nice try.

Sakurai never actually said he agrees with the sentiment, just that he understands where it comes.

 

[Lenidem]

Returning to this thread to remind y'all that Sakurai himself agrees that there are too many Fire Emblem characters in Smash. Apparently he preferred a different character but Nintendo pushed him to add Byleth, without question to promote Three Houses, making this the only time anyone can accurately make the "stolen spot" argument. This also may be the reason we're about to have 6 characters instead of 5.

Where does this come from?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Nice try.

Sakurai never actually said he agrees with the sentiment, just that he understands where it comes.

Source? Because every translation I've seen has him explicitly stating he disagrees with Nintendo's push for the amount of FE characters as well as swordies in general.

And what do you mean by "Nice try?" I'm not trying to sway anyone's opinions here or make an argument. There's a reason I have been avoiding this thread as of late. I'm just reporting on what I saw.

Where does this come from?

Look it up. It's all over the internet right now.

 

[Deleted member]

Returning to this thread to remind y'all that Sakurai himself agrees that there are too many Fire Emblem characters in Smash. Apparently he preferred a different character but Nintendo pushed him to add Byleth, without question to promote Three Houses, making this the only time anyone can accurately make the "stolen spot" argument. This also may be the reason we're about to have 6 characters instead of 5.

Nice try.

Sakurai never actually said he agrees with the sentiment, just that he understands where it comes.

Let's not forget that details like this being misunderstood in translation is more common than one might wish (not that anything can really be done about it).

Whether or not Sakurai agrees with the statement of too many FE's and Swordies, or just understands where people are coming from with it will probably be unclear for a longer time than is bound to be good for the community. But at the end of the day, Byleth is in the game. The reasons for that choice, regardless of how much the power to make it is distributed between Sakurai and Nintendo, are things that people are free to agree, or disagree with, as long as people aren't toxic and aren't harassing others over it either way.

And personally, I have a very hard time believing that Sakurai is against sword characters because there's "too many". Given how many Sword characters people want that aren't from Fire Emblem, I feel like this mindset would hurt roster selection.

Too many FE characters I get. Thinking franchises like Zelda and Kirby should get new characters and being annoyed that Fire Emblem is the one that keeps getting that is one of the more reasonable criticisms surrounding Byleth after all. And if the next entry, however far away it is, has cuts (which it probably will) a couple of FE characters might just get the axe. Corrin and the Echoes in particular are probably on the chopping block more than others.

 

[Lenidem]

Source? Because every translation I've seen has him explicitly stating he disagrees with Nintendo's push for the amount of FE characters as well as swordies in general.

And what do you mean by "Nice try?" I'm not trying to sway anyone's opinions here or make an argument. There's a reason I have been avoiding this thread as of late. I'm just reporting on what I saw.

Look it up. It's all over the internet right now.

Oh, it's on the internet? Thank you so much!!!

 

[KayaMarley]

Hey, remember what I said about it being a pain to read what you write? It's a massive wall of text with no structure. You go from point to point without any break making it difficult to sift out what you're actually saying. it's like reading the ramblings of a mad man. I will repeat, LEARN TO STRUCTURE YOUR PARAGRAPHS.

The point was never that Zoom was good or that it should be relied on. The point was Zoom was easy. How have you missed that time after time after time. Do I have to physically pound it into your head so you can comprehend that there's a functional difference between something being reliable and thus good and something being easy? You're arguing against something completely separate from what I'm actually saying.

I have no interest in reading that long rant of yours or fixing it for you.

lmao you really dont have any retort! i'm dying, what a bs out. try not to cry yourself to sleep XD

Hey, remember what I said about it being a pain to read what you write? It's a massive wall of text with no structure. You go from point to point without any break making it difficult to sift out what you're actually saying. it's like reading the ramblings of a mad man. I will repeat, LEARN TO STRUCTURE YOUR PARAGRAPHS.

The point was never that Zoom was good or that it should be relied on. The point was Zoom was easy. How have you missed that time after time after time. Do I have to physically pound it into your head so you can comprehend that there's a functional difference between something being reliable and thus good and something being easy? You're arguing against something completely separate from what I'm actually saying.

I have no interest in reading that long rant of yours or fixing it for you.

lmao you really dont have any retort! i'm dying, what a bs out. try not to cry yourself to sleep XD

He didn't change it around, he reworded it because you couldn't understand his point (which is a common theme for both of us) and can't grasp anything topic that isn't "x good, y bad"


But you can get hit even if you press it instantly. You're not 100% immune on the way up and can get knocked off.


You missed the point entirely again. What happens if you get knocked so far away that you're nowhere near the ledge or stage to Up-B to? Do you still recover? You must considering that Byleth is the best character in the game, apparently.


You handle points like my infant niece handles chinaware


"This topic is pointless you guys."
"Why are you responding to it?"
"Because I had to! Why don't you leave then?"
"I don't wanna."
<--- (You Are Here)
"You're bad at the game."
*rage quit*


You did explicitly with Pwn:

-----


I mean yeah, I won't deny there are people like that, but the entire argument came from you saying her recovery was amazing (and accusing Pwn of being salty an FE character was added), us disagreeing, then you dodging/not understanding points until here we are


You haven't linked to anything in this thread to anybody as far as I know. All I can see is some guy mistaking "lol u bad" and "git gud" as actual points for an argument


You could use an enter button and a Language Arts class. If you want, we could trade
I like your pupper though.

you guys are hilarious, what makes you think i care enough to properly structure a smash boards post, lmao what a joke. You guys incessantly bring these kinds of things to the table because you have no real points to argue, its pathetic. The first guy just gave some lame excuse as to why he cant retort, and you just keep saying the same stupid things, that i literally have already disproved, but apparently you arent capable of actually using brain-cells. and yes, if you press the button immediately, you are 100% immune, i literally was testing it while playing online today, you guys really are incapable of understanding something so basic. your also able to recover from just about anywhere, and if you can't, well then ya f'd up, sorry mate thats on you, not the character having poor design, like c'mon, what a ridiculous perception to have. You seem really stuck on the idea that i think this character is the best when i don't, just that you guys are autistic with your remarks towards her being bad, when I've literally supplied facts as to why she's not, unless of course you want to pretend that reading is too hard for you too, lmao. I literally never said I had to respond, nice try though (damn you guys really can't read, and you wanna judge me? smh). and please, i wouldn't need to rage quit against someone like you, from how you guys are talking, you probably just play little mac. and no I also never said he disliked FE, i even went to reread what i said just to make sure i didn't say that by accident, and low and behold, more bs from you. you guys really like to make up crap to help feed your insanity don't you? I guess your blind cuz i did link things, in the exact same post even lmao! but here just for you, enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drVF8dEBhF8 video of one of the best fox players losing to her, and the next link is frame data. as i stated in the earlier post, this doesn't show the invuln frames im talking about, but if you really care im sure you can find a video of it somewhere, or wow get this! try it yourself, cuz its been a real life saver for me at times. https://ultimateframedata.com/byleth.php

And yes, i purposely left it as a wall of text just for you two
honestly though petty joke aside, this is a forum, so i honestly don't care to fix something thats so insignificant to me for a rando on the internet. like it might matter to you, but it doesn't to me soo.. if you don't wanna read then don't, i really couldn't care less. i gave all my points and supported with actual link proving the stuff, and if you want to be stubborn, thats not my problem. And for the record, i really don't know who i would consider the best in the game, especially since the patch notes are still so new, so no, i would never outright say it's a new character that's just been in for less than a month, just that it's clear to me that her recovery is top notch.

And thanks, the puppers a good boy. The picture of him is shortly after we got him, only about 3 weeks old. He's one year old now and he's absolutely massive! it's crazy how quickly aussiedors grow (thats an austrailan sheppard and a labrador, in case you didn't already know).

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

lmao you really dont have any retort! i'm dying, what a bs out. try not to cry yourself to sleep XD



lmao you really dont have any retort! i'm dying, what a bs out. try not to cry yourself to sleep XD



you guys are hilarious, what makes you think i care enough to properly structure a smash boards post, lmao what a joke. You guys incessantly bring these kinds of things to the table because you have no real points to argue, its pathetic. The first guy just gave some lame excuse as to why he cant retort, and you just keep saying the same stupid things, that i literally have already disproved, but apparently you arent capable of actually using brain-cells. and yes, if you press the button immediately, you are 100% immune, i literally was testing it while playing online today, you guys really are incapable of understanding something so basic. your also able to recover from just about anywhere, and if you can't, well then ya f'd up, sorry mate thats on you, not the character having poor design, like c'mon, what a ridiculous perception to have. You seem really stuck on the idea that i think this character is the best when i don't, just that you guys are autistic with your remarks towards her being bad, when I've literally supplied facts as to why she's not, unless of course you want to pretend that reading is too hard for you too, lmao. I literally never said I had to respond, nice try though (damn you guys really can't read, and you wanna judge me? smh). and please, i wouldn't need to rage quit against someone like you, from how you guys are talking, you probably just play little mac. and no I also never said he disliked FE, i even went to reread what i said just to make sure i didn't say that by accident, and low and behold, more bs from you. you guys really like to make up crap to help feed your insanity don't you? I guess your blind cuz i did link things, in the exact same post even lmao! but here just for you, enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drVF8dEBhF8 video of one of the best fox players losing to her, and the next link is frame data. as i stated in the earlier post, this doesn't show the invuln frames im talking about, but if you really care im sure you can find a video of it somewhere, or wow get this! try it yourself, cuz its been a real life saver for me at times. https://ultimateframedata.com/byleth.php

And yes, i purposely left it as a wall of text just for you two
honestly though petty joke aside, this is a forum, so i honestly don't care to fix something thats so insignificant to me for a rando on the internet. like it might matter to you, but it doesn't to me soo.. if you don't wanna read then don't, i really couldn't care less. i gave all my points and supported with actual link proving the stuff, and if you want to be stubborn, thats not my problem. And for the record, i really don't know who i would consider the best in the game, especially since the patch notes are still so new, so no, i would never outright say it's a new character that's just been in for less than a month, just that it's clear to me that her recovery is top notch.

And thanks, the puppers a good boy. The picture of him is shortly after we got him, only about 3 weeks old. He's one year old now and he's absolutely massive! it's crazy how quickly aussiedors grow (thats an austrailan sheppard and a labrador, in case you didn't already know).

By all means, keep it a wall of text out of contempt for people, but don't expect others to respect what you have to say when you can't even respect the people you're talking to let alone the medium you're using to converse on. I didn't say why I couldn't retort, I said why I wouldn't bother. It's obvious that you're too thickheaded to comprehend basic concepts like ease and reliability, when I've explained myself several times and you just ignore them to keep on charging past anything with any level of nuance and attack the strawman that you have developed. If you link things in a quote to one person, but not after quoting another, don't be surprised when people skip what you said. You're talking to people directly when you quote them, you're not talking to everyone at once and many times people don't pay attention to things that aren't directed towards them.

The fact that you use ONLINE play as proof of anything working tells me so much without you even having to. Nintendo Switch Online, even with a wired connection is a laggy experience, as if your controls were wading through molasses. There are actions that only work when you're online because even if you could react to them, the game won't act fast enough for your reaction to matter. It's a combination of things, but generally I've seen it said that the netcode is lacking. Nintendo makes games for local play, they're generally not too good at things that connect people the world over.

Let me simplify my argument so you can understand it.
Zoom get back on stage from anywhere cept under level. That make zoom easy use when can use. Zoom not always available, so no can be relied on, but best option when is available.
Tether only can use at certain distance. Only get you to ledge, but no get you on stage. That make you do more work be back on stage. More work mean harder recover.

The video you give, doesn't really prove anything against what we're arguing. The only take away is that Pink Fresh is good at Smash Bros and that lack of matchup experience can be ultimately fatal at tournaments. Nobody is arguing that Byleth is an objectively bad character. The only things I ever said was that I think their recovery kind of sucks because it's a tether and that they have a bad disadvantage state, made worse by their mobility (Their weight isn't doing them favors there either). If you actually read what I said instead of what you think I said, you'd see that I said I could have been too hasty in comparing them to Simon, but that I don't think their tether is as good as you think it is.

You haven't disproven anything, you've argued against things that haven't been said. It's easy to knock someone down when they're made of straw, buddy. Try actually engaging with a real person instead of a person you built to make yourself feel better.

 

[BlackInk]

lmao you really dont have any retort! i'm dying, what a bs out. try not to cry yourself to sleep XD



lmao you really dont have any retort! i'm dying, what a bs out. try not to cry yourself to sleep XD



you guys are hilarious, what makes you think i care enough to properly structure a smash boards post, lmao what a joke. You guys incessantly bring these kinds of things to the table because you have no real points to argue, its pathetic. The first guy just gave some lame excuse as to why he cant retort, and you just keep saying the same stupid things, that i literally have already disproved, but apparently you arent capable of actually using brain-cells. and yes, if you press the button immediately, you are 100% immune, i literally was testing it while playing online today, you guys really are incapable of understanding something so basic. your also able to recover from just about anywhere, and if you can't, well then ya f'd up, sorry mate thats on you, not the character having poor design, like c'mon, what a ridiculous perception to have. You seem really stuck on the idea that i think this character is the best when i don't, just that you guys are autistic with your remarks towards her being bad, when I've literally supplied facts as to why she's not, unless of course you want to pretend that reading is too hard for you too, lmao. I literally never said I had to respond, nice try though (damn you guys really can't read, and you wanna judge me? smh). and please, i wouldn't need to rage quit against someone like you, from how you guys are talking, you probably just play little mac. and no I also never said he disliked FE, i even went to reread what i said just to make sure i didn't say that by accident, and low and behold, more bs from you. you guys really like to make up crap to help feed your insanity don't you? I guess your blind cuz i did link things, in the exact same post even lmao! but here just for you, enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drVF8dEBhF8 video of one of the best fox players losing to her, and the next link is frame data. as i stated in the earlier post, this doesn't show the invuln frames im talking about, but if you really care im sure you can find a video of it somewhere, or wow get this! try it yourself, cuz its been a real life saver for me at times. https://ultimateframedata.com/byleth.php

And yes, i purposely left it as a wall of text just for you two
honestly though petty joke aside, this is a forum, so i honestly don't care to fix something thats so insignificant to me for a rando on the internet. like it might matter to you, but it doesn't to me soo.. if you don't wanna read then don't, i really couldn't care less. i gave all my points and supported with actual link proving the stuff, and if you want to be stubborn, thats not my problem. And for the record, i really don't know who i would consider the best in the game, especially since the patch notes are still so new, so no, i would never outright say it's a new character that's just been in for less than a month, just that it's clear to me that her recovery is top notch.

And thanks, the puppers a good boy. The picture of him is shortly after we got him, only about 3 weeks old. He's one year old now and he's absolutely massive! it's crazy how quickly aussiedors grow (thats an austrailan sheppard and a labrador, in case you didn't already know).

The fact MKleo considers the character as “the second most enjoyable character to play” does mean something. The characters he loves to play normally have a ton of flexibility in their overall kit, the ability to do radical stuff without too much risk, combo starters, and great rewards for good spacing. What’s scary is how well Byleth fits those descriptions much better than even the fastest of mobile characters, ZSS, who probably loses to Byleth.

 

[Extremmefan]

For context, the recent statement comes from a recently translated Sakurai blog post.

However while it does state that Sakurai fears there might be too many Fire Emblem swords and that Nintendo pushed to have Byleth (instead of another character, be it FE or not), it also states that he thinks it got a good reception thanks to the game's sales and other factors surrundoing 3H itself rather than Smash, which's kinda scary as it probably means he hasn't heard of the community reaction (at least back then), which was quite negative.

However it is indeed kinda early to assume that's the best translation we'll get, but considering he said the same thing about Corrin back then, perhaps it's actually reasonable to assume?

 

[BlackInk]

For context, the recent statement comes from a recently translated Sakurai blog post.

However while it does state that Sakurai fears there might be too many Fire Emblem swords and that Nintendo pushed to have Byleth (instead of another character, be it FE or not), it also states that he thinks it got a good reception thanks to the game's sales and other factors surrundoing 3H itself rather than Smash, which's kinda scary as it probably means he hasn't heard of the community reaction (at least back then), which was quite negative.

However it is indeed kinda early to assume that's the best translation we'll get, but considering he said the same thing about Corrin back then, perhaps it's actually reasonable to assume?

The feedback is likely to be positive because Byleth fulfills a lot of heavy slow players, players who previously have lacked a main, and the casuals.

 

[Extremmefan]

The feedback is likely to be positive because Byleth fulfills a lot of heavy slow players, players who previously have lacked a main, and the casuals.

I wouldn't disregard how people were unhappy at first, though I will admit that it's pretty much in the past by now.

 

[BlackInk]

I wouldn't disregard how people were unhappy at first, though I will admit that it's pretty much in the past by now.

Also, only Banjo was the most underwhelming fighter in the dlc pack.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Also, only Banjo was the most underwhelming fighter in the dlc pack.

I don't know, I find both Banjo and Byleth to be pretty underwhelming, compared to the Sheik 2.0 that was Joker, the bag of tricks that was Hero, and the Lone Wolf of South Town (Terry).

There's nothing about either character that really appeals to me as I'm not a fan of the Banjo-Kazooie franchise, nor a fan of slow zoners.

 

[BlackInk]

I don't know, I find both Banjo and Byleth to be pretty underwhelming, compared to the Sheik 2.0 that was Joker, the bag of tricks that was Hero, and the Lone Wolf of South Town (Terry).

There's nothing about either character that really appeals to me as I'm not a fan of the Banjo-Kazooie franchise, nor a fan of slow zoners.

Byleth is not a zoner, they don’t spam projectiles and they’re very powerful AND FLEXIBILE despite being 73th slowest character in the game. Just experiment with them and you’ll have a blast.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Byleth is not a zoner, they don’t spam projectiles and they’re very powerful AND FLEXIBILE despite being 73th slowest character in the game. Just experiment with them and you’ll have a blast.

One doesn't have to spam projectiles to be a zoner. The character wants to keep their enemy at a specific range, that's all you need to be considered a zoner.

Not a fan of the character, no amount of play is going to change that one.

 

[BlackInk]

One doesn't have to spam projectiles to be a zoner. The character wants to keep their enemy at a specific range, that's all you need to be considered a zoner.

Not a fan of the character, no amount of play is going to change that one.

Byleth and Shulk are versatile disjoint Gods, not Zoners.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

One doesn't have to spam projectiles to be a zoner. The character wants to keep their enemy at a specific range, that's all you need to be considered a zoner.

Not a fan of the character, no amount of play is going to change that one.

Ignore him, this guy can't help himself when saying dumb ****. Considering this thread's not getting back on topic as everyone's moved on it should locked

 

[BlackInk]

Ignore him, this guy can't help himself when saying dumb ****. Considering this thread's not getting back on topic as everyone's moved on it should locked

Are you saying that Zoners don’t spam projectiles and set up traps? They can get aggressive, but they are still going to spam them like no tomorrow. Compare Yink to Byleth, Yink is way faster and yet he is the one spamming bombs, boomerangs, and projectiles, which makes him so damn annoying. Byleth only has a limited bow.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Are you saying that Zoners don’t spam projectiles and set up traps? They can get aggressive, but they are still going to spam them like no tomorrow. Compare Yink to Byleth, Yink is way faster and yet he is the one spamming bombs, boomerangs, and projectiles, which makes him so damn annoying. Byleth only has a limited bow.

Zoning and spamming is not the same thing. Zoners don't even have to have projectiles, so long as they have a way to keep others at a distance.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Zoning and spamming is not the same thing. Zoners don't even have to have projectiles, so long as they have a way to keep others at a distance.

The Newcomer thread and the Competitive thread shows Ink's unfit for debate, I suggest you save your energy

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

The Newcomer thread and the Competitive thread shows Ink's unfit for debate, I suggest you save your energy

Not really trying to debate with them, just point out a fact. I'll keep it in mind though.

 

[BlackInk]

The Newcomer thread and the Competitive thread shows Ink's unfit for debate, I suggest you save your energy

Nah, I actually disagree with the person with actual arguments and not the pity stuff you’re pulling.

Zoning and spamming is not the same thing. Zoners don't even have to have projectiles, so long as they have a way to keep others at a distance.

Then what is Dabuz doing? With Rosalina, Luma is the obstacle, her most powerful trap in her main game plan. Zelda’s phantom is a powerful trap and her side-b and Phantom are supposed to keep pushing the opponents away to recharge that important tool. Pac-Man plays a lot of annoying games with items and traps that mess you up. Olimar has different kinds of pikman, he benefits a lot from zoning and it’s normal for him to abuse pikman tossing. Samus plays really annoying games with her bombs and projectile so they can charge up their projectile better. Villager is... God no. Byleth is different in that their play style doesn’t revolve around the projectile, it’s more like a well-rounded disjoint character that’s incredibly dishonest.

 

[Folt]

Nice try.

Sakurai never actually said he agrees with the sentiment, just that he understands where it comes.

Yeah? None of that contradicts what I said. Sakurai understands where the argument comes from, so he goes out of the way to differentiate Byleth from the other swordsmen by giving him the House Leaders' relics.

 

[staindgrey]

Alright so what're we talking about in here.

What's the goal of this thread.

Where we goin' with this.

 

[meleebrawler]

Alright so what're we talking about in here.

What's the goal of this thread.

Where we goin' with this.

We want to be angry about stuff.

 

[Coolboy]

aaaaand i have that feeling this thread will be locked

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Nah, I actually disagree with the person with actual arguments and not the pity stuff you’re pulling.


Then what is Dabuz doing? With Rosalina, Luma is the obstacle, her most powerful trap in her main game plan. Zelda’s phantom is a powerful trap and her side-b and Phantom are supposed to keep pushing the opponents away to recharge that important tool. Pac-Man plays a lot of annoying games with items and traps that mess you up. Olimar has different kinds of pikman, he benefits a lot from zoning and it’s normal for him to abuse pikman tossing. Samus plays really annoying games with her bombs and projectile so they can charge up their projectile better. Villager is... God no. Byleth is different in that their play style doesn’t revolve around the projectile, it’s more like a well-rounded disjoint character that’s incredibly dishonest.

Zoner is not a term exclusive to Smash Bros. M Bison is considered a zoner in SF2, and guy has no projectiles. There's a world of fighters outside of Smash. You can zone with projectiles, but it's not a prerequisite.

 

[Blutrausch]

After I tried out Byleth, I wasn't even disappointed with his inclusion anymore. He's so different from Marth, Roy, Lucina, and Chrom. In fact, if I could reduce the amount of FE characters in Smash, I'd keep Marth, Ike, Robin, and Byleth.

 

[staindgrey]

aaaaand i have that feeling this thread will be locked

Not necessarily.

Some people have just gotten testy, and I want to make sure people are still using the thread constructively. It's A-okay to be disappointed by any new DLC character, and I think it's healthy to give people a space to say as much. But if people just start fighting then there's no point.

 

[Lenidem]

After I tried out Byleth, I wasn't even disappointed with his inclusion anymore. He's so different from Marth, Roy, Lucina, and Chrom. In fact, if I could reduce the amount of FE characters in Smash, I'd keep Marth, Ike, Robin, and Byleth.

Why where you disappointed in the first place? I was, and still am, because it's another Fire Emblem rep while there is so many other possibilities. He's different from the other FE characters? So would be have been any character from any other franchise.

 

[MaddaD]

you guys are hilarious, what makes you think i care enough to properly structure a smash boards post, lmao what a joke. You guys incessantly bring these kinds of things to the table because you have no real points to argue, its pathetic.

Considering you've posted in multiples places were there wasn't a big wall of text that was properly formatted and got your points across, I'd say otherwise.
That's Pwn's argument though. I don't mind it at all, coming from pre 2010 Thottbot/Wowhead where that was the norm.

(anybody else catch that irony?)

just that you guys are autistic with your remarks towards her being bad

Well darn. If pointing out your flaws in logic is autism, then I gotta call my doctor.
(I also never said she was bad)

And for the record, i really don't know who i would consider the best in the game, especially since the patch notes are still so new, so no, i would never outright say it's a new character that's just been in for less than a month, just that it's clear to me that her recovery is top notch.

It's got a pretty great vertical recovery, especially for a tether. I'd rank it Low-High A, for sure.

And thanks, the puppers a good boy. The picture of him is shortly after we got him, only about 3 weeks old. He's one year old now and he's absolutely massive! it's crazy how quickly aussiedors grow (thats an austrailan sheppard and a labrador, in case you didn't already know).

Yeah, they're a cute breed, I used to have a few when I was a kid growing up on the countryside. Miss my girls: Millie, Hazel and Ol' Ernie
Do you think he can compose an argument better than you?
-----

aaaaand i have that feeling this thread will be locked

Maaaaaaaaybe. I'm having fun though

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Considering you've posted in multiples places were there wasn't a big wall of text that was properly formatted and got your points across, I'd say otherwise.
That's Pwn's argument though. I don't mind it at all, coming from pre 2010 Thottbot/Wowhead where that was the norm.

Wouldn't say it's much of an argument, more like it's a criticism. I figure if people want their ideas to be heard, they should put enough effort into making sure they can be understood without difficulty. My only takeaway from seeing so many walls of text is that this person is an idiot. But that's just me.

 

[Blutrausch]

Why where you disappointed in the first place? I was, and still am, because it's another Fire Emblem rep while there is so many other possibilities. He's different from the other FE characters? So would be have been any character from any other franchise.

Because he's an FE character. Sure, I think a few franchises have too many characters, but it's whatever now. Nothing about his inclusion will change.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I'm going to be fully honest here. This whole thing, it isn't even about Byleth, Fire Emblem, or any other specific character or IP.

Even long before this, I've always held the opinion that a significant portion of the Super Smash Bros. fandom tends to act like a bunch of spoiled little toddlers when it comes to what characters they want and what characters they get. These inescapable fandom-wide toxic behaviors have driven me crazy enough to actually have sworn off the series for a few years during the Sm4sh DLC era. They've driven me crazy enough to dread a fifth Super Smash Bros. game being announced at all. When that Inkling teaser happened, I practically broke down in tears—not because I had any opinion on Inkling, but because I thought I was finally free from speculation hell only for that hope to be stomped into the dirt.

Byleth being Byleth was just the last straw that made people start noticing how greedy this fandom can get. Something like this was going to happen one way or another eventually. The cracks in the bridge were already there and just kept getting bigger. In my eyes, Byleth almost did the community a favor by swiftly shattering that bridge rather than letting it continue to creak and ache and bend and wear down and quietly suffer.

I'd LOVE to have seen how people this dissatisfied with the roster would have fared in the pre-Brawl speculation days or, god forbid, the pre-Melee speculation days.

Also, one more thing: it's one thing to scapegoat a character for your dreamie not getting in, it's another thing entirely complaining that they're on the roster at all. This isn't even about Byleth. It's about Jigglypuff, Dr. Mario, Young Link, Pichu, Ridley, the echo fighters, and anyone else that you've demanded to be removed from the series in the past. My point is, this is not a new problem.

I used to be guilty of these behaviors myself, I know. But then I realized how poisonous I was being, how much I was needlessly stressing out myself and people around me.


Lastly, before anyone accuses me of being a Fire Emblem fanatic, while I have played the FE series a little, I haven't even beaten the first game yet. I don't hate it, its genre just doesn't really clamor for my attention.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Byleth being Byleth was just the last straw that made people start noticing how greedy this fandom can get. Something like this was going to happen one way or another eventually. The cracks in the bridge were already there and just kept getting bigger. In my eyes, Byleth almost did the community a favor by swiftly shattering that bridge rather than letting it continue to creak and ache and bend and wear down and quietly suffer.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, so I'll ask. Are you saying that people disappointed by a character's inclusion as DLC are necessarily greedy? Or is it something more than that?