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Kowns Thread.

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
8,722
Location
Skyworld
NNID
GoldAngelPit
3DS FC
0903-2895-3694
I'm feeling extremely concerned now after hearing bout some AIB discussions about Apex Rules and such.
___
Stages

Neutrals:

Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)
Smashville
Lylat

Counter Picks:

Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Pokemon Stadium 1
Frigate Orpheon
___

Found the stuff here:
http://apexsmash.com/rules/


Lylat being a starter and PS1 being a CP for Apex rules, and Vice versa for the old regular list from the old AIB ladder list, so don't bash me too much), but that isn't the main focus I wish to address.
Here, I'm taking a look at Brinstar, Japes, Picto, and RC, since they're the banned stages on the Apex ruleset. If this is the rules we have to go by, then I wish we revise the stages a lot more, and a bit of the MUs for stage CPs/Bans.


-Brinstar
A place that I feel that can be one of Pit's best CP stages. Here, we can take on many characters, including Falco, Diddy, ICs, D3, and Marth, There are exceptions to characters like Lucas, DK, Ness, and Zelda, who are good on that stage as well, but they're not common. Of course, the absolute threat around here is MK, who not only hurts Pit the most, but this stage is one of MK's best as well.
It is because of MK's existence that I sometimes am afraid to CP the stage, the fear of a player having a pocket MK with em.

But with Apex rules banning this place, I think it could hamper with our stage CP list, especially if MK is banned. In other words, it's either
-Ban MK and have Brinstar legal
-Ban Brinstar if MK isn't banned

Tbh, I prefer the 1st option since I do want to use this stage against some other characters that can be troublesome.


-Japes
According to the year-old CP/ban list I've been using, it says that we should ban this from DK, Falco (this one is obvious), Jiggs, Lucario, and Wario. Idk much bout the place either. I do ban this over FD against Falco, though. Tbh, with it banned, I can gladly ban FD, though I'd have to adapt to YI or PS1 regularly.

With the stage banned, I don't think it'll affect us too much, except helping against Falco's CP options.


-Picto
I've been told ICs and Sonic are good here, and idk how much Pit is good here, or who can we use it against. I don't like it much, so I got nothing. I guess with it being banned, we don't have to worry bout Sonics stalling. That's all I have for this.


-RC
A stage that seems to be okay to Pit, good against some characters. While Kirby and Sonic may be troublesome here by standards, MK, obviously, is the worst here. Idk much bout it since I always ban this against MKs, provided the stage is allowed anyways.

I don't think this stage is too big of a deal to us, unless MK is around. So with it banned, it'll help us for the most part, especially if MK is still around. I'm not sure bout the Pit users who do use the stage against some chars though.



It is because of this list that I think we may have to discuss and revise the stages a bit more, since they can help determine a victory or defeat via CPs/bans. I also wanted to see the input about it from the other Pit players and see what we can do to adapt to this, and see which characters can be easier or more threatening to us because of the stage changes. Besides, I feel we need to do this fast so we can be better prepared. So what do you think?



EDIT: I've also added a few questions:

1: Out of RC, Brinstar, Japes, and Picto, which stages would you want to keep and which ones to ban? Would your opinion change if MK is/is not banned?

2: With this new stage list, what characters you think would be easier/harder for us to deal with

3: Do you feel that Pit has more potential with those 4 stages banned? You may also answer this question, provided that MK is/is not banned.


If you got any other questions that may be helpful to us due to the stage changes and such, feel free to late me know. We must adapt to this possible situation quickly.
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
8,722
Location
Skyworld
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GoldAngelPit
3DS FC
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You know those stages probably won't be banned everywhere, just like some places/tourneys that have MK banned though he wasn't officially banned. While thinking bout banned stages isn't my main concern, I'm always open for the opinions of others on them since we've had them as legal for a while.
The main concern to me is how will the new stage list affect us. What characters will be weaker/tougher against us due to the stage changes? We have to make a new CP/Ban list to replace the old one we've had as well, or at least the one I've been following. Another way of saying this is that it isn't just the character MUs that concern me, but the stages as well. Again, with the stage list changed, I'm worried about how it will affect Pit's potential, since you know we had a few key stages that work against some characters.
 

Tesh

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
9,737
Location
TX
Lol I remember beating a Sonic on Pictochat with Pit. I just shot arrows at his spindash from across the stage all game.

Pit has alot of moves to stop spindash easily.
 

Gadiel_VaStar

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Messages
2,066
Location
Atlanta, GA
NNID
GadielVaStar
I'm feeling extremely concerned now after hearing bout some AIB discussions about Apex Rules and such.
___
Stages

Neutrals:

Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)
Smashville
Lylat

Counter Picks:

Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Pokemon Stadium 1
Frigate Orpheon
___

Found the stuff here:
http://apexsmash.com/rules/


Lylat being a starter and PS1 being a CP for Apex rules, and Vice versa for the old regular list from the old AIB ladder list, so don't bash me too much), but that isn't the main focus I wish to address.
Here, I'm taking a look at Brinstar, Japes, Picto, and RC, since they're the banned stages on the Apex ruleset. If this is the rules we have to go by, then I wish we revise the stages a lot more, and a bit of the MUs for stage CPs/Bans.


-Brinstar
A place that I feel that can be one of Pit's best CP stages. Here, we can take on many characters, including Falco, Diddy, ICs, D3, and Marth, There are exceptions to characters like Lucas, DK, Ness, and Zelda, who are good on that stage as well, but they're not common. Of course, the absolute threat around here is MK, who not only hurts Pit the most, but this stage is one of MK's best as well.
It is because of MK's existence that I sometimes am afraid to CP the stage, the fear of a player having a pocket MK with em.

But with Apex rules banning this place, I think it could hamper with our stage CP list, especially if MK is banned. In other words, it's either
-Ban MK and have Brinstar legal
-Ban Brinstar if MK isn't banned

Tbh, I prefer the 1st option since I do want to use this stage against some other characters that can be troublesome.


-Japes
According to the year-old CP/ban list I've been using, it says that we should ban this from DK, Falco (this one is obvious), Jiggs, Lucario, and Wario. Idk much bout the place either. I do ban this over FD against Falco, though. Tbh, with it banned, I can gladly ban FD, though I'd have to adapt to YI or PS1 regularly.

With the stage banned, I don't think it'll affect us too much, except helping against Falco's CP options.


-Picto
I've been told ICs and Sonic are good here, and idk how much Pit is good here, or who can we use it against. I don't like it much, so I got nothing. I guess with it being banned, we don't have to worry bout Sonics stalling. That's all I have for this.


-RC
A stage that seems to be okay to Pit, good against some characters. While Kirby and Sonic may be troublesome here by standards, MK, obviously, is the worst here. Idk much bout it since I always ban this against MKs, provided the stage is allowed anyways.

I don't think this stage is too big of a deal to us, unless MK is around. So with it banned, it'll help us for the most part, especially if MK is still around. I'm not sure bout the Pit users who do use the stage against some chars though.



It is because of this list that I think we may have to discuss and revise the stages a bit more, since they can help determine a victory or defeat via CPs/bans. I also wanted to see the input about it from the other Pit players and see what we can do to adapt to this, and see which characters can be easier or more threatening to us because of the stage changes. Besides, I feel we need to do this fast so we can be better prepared. So what do you think?



EDIT: I've also added a few questions:

1: Out of RC, Brinstar, Japes, and Picto, which stages would you want to keep and which ones to ban? Would your opinion change if MK is/is not banned?

2: With this new stage list, what characters you think would be easier/harder for us to deal with

3: Do you feel that Pit has more potential with those 4 stages banned? You may also answer this question, provided that MK is/is not banned.


If you got any other questions that may be helpful to us due to the stage changes and such, feel free to late me know. We must adapt to this possible situation quickly.
Wait why do you want to talk about banned stages

:phone:
I agree w/ Luckay, we should discuss the stages we can use. IMO, those banned stages aren't that good of CPs aside from Brinstar & Rainbow. Picto & Japes are almost always banned now-a-days so that's useless.

Lylat

Counter Picks:
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Pokemon Stadium 1
Frigate Orpheon

I think Lylat, Delphino, Halberd, and Frigate are his best from this list. I use mainly Frigate and Lylat and Delphino on ladder, but it hasn't worked out too well vs top players like Dabuz >_<. CP's don't negate skill level, so that's one thing. I got messed up by Frigate by getting stuck & losing the match, so that may be the only flaw in that stage.
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
6,040
Location
Apopka Florida
Again..mk is ban. **** DISCUSSING STAGES!

Like i wasn't worried one way or another cuz i can do the ditto for mk...but i'm just surprised as hell it went through.

I'm so hyped to see how things will turn out.
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
8,722
Location
Skyworld
NNID
GoldAngelPit
3DS FC
0903-2895-3694
I just need the stages against various characters, Alas, aside from still thinking bout stages, we can celebrate that ugly bad knight thing being banned at last. I wonder how many of em are gonna quit, though.
 

Tesh

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
9,737
Location
TX
So I guess now you guys will have no excuse for poor placings? Since Pit does well against everyone else in top tier, this should be amazing for you guys.

I await the results...
































...or lack of :troll:
 

Krystedez

Awaken the Path
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
4,301
Location
Colorado Springs
I can make some fanart at the very least until I get my *** to an official MK banned tournament, or even better, Apex (where MK looms over for his last day to be held in history forever)
 

Gadiel_VaStar

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Messages
2,066
Location
Atlanta, GA
NNID
GadielVaStar
Idk, I still don't think that MK gone will improve our results. We still aren't that good of players collectively(definitely mid-high), but not many high level Pit players in comparison to Marths or Falcos.
 

Blubolouis

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,005
Location
Paris, France
You'll get there... there's no real reason anymore for any dedicated pit to switch characters now, apart from "I'm better at the MU with my other character". Perhaps I'm alone in this, but I found MK to be on a different level of "hard MU" than wario and marth (not even mentioning G&W).
This means Pit players (you guys) will definitly have many more opportunities to stick with pit, improve, and get **** done eventually.


(IMO :D)
 

Starwave

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 15, 2011
Messages
49
!!!

MK finally getting the boot was the boost Pit needed. With MK gone, literally Pits worst matchup is Wario! Pit can actually solo tournaments now considering he isn't hard countered by any character anymore (hurray) today was a good day indeed.


So I guess now you guys will have no excuse for poor placings? Since Pit does well against everyone else in top tier, this should be amazing for you guys.

I await the results...
































...or lack of :troll:
Lol.

As always your posts are a delight Tesh (i'm not being sarcastic)
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
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Messages
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Location
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3DS FC
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I'm losing much of my mojo ever since Brinstar isn't allowed anymore. I need to figure out some stage CPs again, and without my Brinstar, I'm screwed in some of the MUs. I still have space animal problems, Diddy (working on that one), Oli, and I guess a few other mid tiers/below I'm not aware of. And I did lose a set because of tripping.

I think I have the bad luck syndrome again D:
 

Krystedez

Awaken the Path
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
4,301
Location
Colorado Springs
Now that I know the Falco match up with Pit (against high level players not named Filip), I need to learn the Marth matchup.

My only matchups I worry about with pit currently even so:

:marth:
:falco:
:dedede:

For my wario it's:

:falco:
:dedede:

But Wario doesnt do bad against Falco, it's just high level players have so much experience against him. Shugo took down like 2, 3 warios at SiiS. then he goes MK on my wario. lol...

But yeah if I can learn Falco and Marth, and finally Dedede, I should be golden.
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
6,040
Location
Apopka Florida
You should of won that wario vs mk match :(


I know falco way better than i do marth atm. Marth is more of a priority for me
 

Krystedez

Awaken the Path
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
4,301
Location
Colorado Springs
I can't flip flop Pit and Wario that well and expect to beat a random pocket MK like Shugo's. I didn't even know he used MK.

Now it doesn't matter.
 

DJ Arcatek

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
2,373
Location
Dark Side of the Moon
I must say, this thread has the best General/Social thread title out of all the.... General/Social threads.


Also, there are only like... 2 MK mains in Florida. I think we'll be fine with the ban haha.
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
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Messages
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Lylat or Delfino is what we may have to use against Marth, as the old just says, since my Brinstar is now gone! Why do I have to be stuck with a curse of bad luck!?

*insert rage and random attacks here*

And the time it takes for me to recover varies, bare with me ~_~
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
6,040
Location
Apopka Florida
I'm posting this here since the video tread looks kinda slow these days.
My own try at the marth MU, vs leon
http://fr.twitch.tv/yami2b/b/296419254 1:38:24 aka sds are fun
http://fr.twitch.tv/yami2b/b/296427573 0:02:50 , 3 matches (0:12:32 BAIR DAMMIT)

Bonus match-ups (g&w, snake, cf, peach)
http://fr.twitch.tv/yami2b/b/296444947 1:28:28 till the end

Thoughts? =)
Sorry. I'm actually doing some updates tonight.

I must say, this thread has the best General/Social thread title out of all the.... General/Social threads.


Also, there are only like... 2 MK mains in Florida. I think we'll be fine with the ban haha.
Thanks! :D
 

Krystedez

Awaken the Path
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
4,301
Location
Colorado Springs
I just want to take this time to personally thank the Pits that have stepped up and helped with the matchup chart.

Thank you. You know who you are. And it's my obligation to not disclose who is apart of it. But you are free to.

Thank you again.

And also, I want to say that after fighting Ally's MK with Pit, I was severely limited in the matchup unlike any other I've ever played.

With MK gone I can focus on other matchups and stay Pit a lot!
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
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Brinstar (without MK) was one of my prime places, and ppl are aware of it. They're banning it more often as I fight them, and I dont trust Halberd with Fox and Snake around.
 

Alien Vision

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Messages
906
A Mysterious Individual That Poses No Real Significance To the Pit Community Says: I'm going to main Pit again.
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
pit beats fox hard at halberd because pit shouldn't ever be touched by fox at halberd, you can't kill what you can't touch. pit vs snake is still even on halberd because pit can use the stage better than snake, he just has that lulzy utilt.

welcome Alien.
 

Alien Vision

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Messages
906
pit beats fox hard at halberd because pit shouldn't ever be touched by fox at halberd, you can't kill what you can't touch. pit vs snake is still even on halberd because pit can use the stage better than snake, he just has that lulzy utilt.

welcome Alien.
Having advice for :diddybrawl: is, by far, my ultimate concern as of now.
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
well i know some things about diddy that seem to work good when i play gnes's. he still wins but here are just some truths about that MU. but usually he just plays his wario on me because we have a lot of fun with those games.

stay near an edge so that even if he gets you with a banana you aren't really in a lot of trouble

don't try to reflect banana's with mirror shield, you'll get diddy humped

his fair is troublesome as it is fast than our moves that outrange it so keeping an eye on his fair spacing is imperative to this MU

don't be fancy, be safe. looping should be used as a defensive tactic or gimping tactic.

keith doesn't really tell anyone this but if you dodge diddy's uair, it is a frame trap for his fair.

insta-throwing and insta-catching banana's is a technique that you gotta master otherwise he'll always out banana you.

get him above you when possible, so getting grabs in is also a must, fortunately pit is strong with bananas.

understand that the easiest way to kill diddy is just to wait it out until he is at 165% and get in a DA.
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
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I refuse to go to Halberd with Snake and Fox with fast vertical KOing capability, and the old list did say to ban it. Maybe it's good for you, but not for me.
 

Krystedez

Awaken the Path
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
4,301
Location
Colorado Springs
Having advice for :diddybrawl: is, by far, my ultimate concern as of now.
I'll give ya run down later too, I played Count's Diddy, was a pretty even matchup but you have to know what to do and not get frustrated. I did, and ended up getting timed out XD, he's a great player though, especially since he didn't have much Pit experience, same with me and Diddy.
 
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