Koopa VS Kefka -- The Endless Tournament ends! Who took home the prize?

[Kantrip]

Like, I really don't feel motivation to go in-depth with any of my reads because there is no reason to convince others I'm right. Only the tourney cop's stances matter, there is really no motivation for me to show others why I'm reading players the way I am. This game is literally a bunch of playing matches, where each individual person will use their own judgement as to whether their opponent is scum or not. With no collective town lynch, I don't see the incentive to work together in this setup.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Except that we can use a majority to punch someones ****ing lights out and people actually cooperating can help inform both that and the tourney cop. This game isn't just win/lose, Nabe's said there are multiple endings possible between the extremes. You odn't need to go full out with everything. but you do need to at least show you have a thought process.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

ByeP

 

[Wots All This Then?]

EBWOP Bye: PP

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I'm also really not up for digging through the thread right now.

I'm pretty sure my Rake dislike was right after Rake did something dislike-able. Dislike of you is partially tied into what J said. Really hate the way you defended soup if soup is town. Will expand, tomorrow.

Does this change if soup is scum?

Here's my problem. You are parroting J's stance on me, after I have explained to him why it was a bad stance. Yet you still say it's partially tied to what he said. You really aren't trying to read me. Your reasoning for Rake isn't going to fly. You are half-assing your stances even now, and I don't see how me defending Soup is a problem when your original stance is weak, which you won't even back up.

TBH his reasoning for rake(what I remember him stating) is similar to my reasoning for disliking rake.

 

[pawndidater2]

Freaking hell.

When did this come up.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

like...three days ago. At least.

 

[pawndidater2]

Why was I not informed.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Should have been paying attention. You confirmed in your hotel room.

 

[pawndidater2]

Yeah but I never saw a link to this thread.

 

[Kantrip]

Does this change if soup is scum?



TBH his reasoning for rake(what I remember him stating) is similar to my reasoning for disliking rake.

Obviously. That's why I specified with the 'if town' part. If soup is scum the random baseless defense doesn't make sense as a scumbuddy.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Mkay. Who's scum besides soup?

Yeah but I never saw a link to this thread.

 

[pawndidater2]

HOLY CRAP THESE RULES.

Nabe can go sit in the corner and think about what he's done.

And things that he hasn't done but should've.

Question, am I allowed to say what my optional goals are?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I don't see anything against it in the rules, but paraphrase obv. Also, don't necessarily see why you'd need to out them?

 

[pawndidater2]

Just in case I felt like it.
I'll try to catch up as soon as possible now. Be back in some minutes.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Plus the things he doesn't like me for are a lot of null tells that I think Knatrip's just now trying to twist into half a scum read to substantiate himself on it after being called out on it, the concerns he's listing off mainly occurred before game start and yet when prompted he had to go back to get them like they are easily forgettable or not so telling he'd be able to rattle them off like a condemnation. From mypov, that means he's just looking for reasons to label me as scum, rather than actually read me, and i don't think it's townTrip who's doing it mistakenly atm. I don't see Kantrip trying to understand my intentions.

How is this different from me asking you about your kantrip read? What you accuse Kantrip of is something that has literally just happened for you, as well.

there ya go. Now, PJB, can you answer my question to you ?
Also: go further into depth on your Kantrip read.

Which question? I must have missed it.

Right now, Kantrip is very much in line with how he was behaving in Scott Pilgrim. He's being open and upfront with his reads, and he's confident about them. There's no wishy washyness, or the bull**** attempts at stirring up conversation that usually indicate indytrip. In fact, I find myself in general agreement with him on everything so far. To tell you the truth, reading your entrance to the game felt off, and it gave me bad vibes. Admittedly, it's been awhile since I've seen you play outside of a hydra, and last game I didn't read you so well either, but I'm not seeing what I've come to expect from townrake. You want people to follow you, but you haven't given us a reason to do that, like you're trying to seize control Swiss or KevinM style. You don't seem like you're looking for scum, and Kantrip picked up on it, and said it out loud before I did. Then there's our similar reads on the rest of the cast. Again, I know it's a fallacy to say "I'm town, I think X. Kantrip thinks X too, therefore must be town." but it just feels right here. It may not be a good reason to call him town, but he's certainly not giving me reason to think he's scum, so why would I?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Mod-When is morning phase going to end?

 

[Kantrip]

WATT we already have the answer to that. It was some amount of days, when activity slows down, or when we assign a Bye, I believe.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Nabe also had it is "tbd" upon daystart.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Can you go into the bolded gheb?

Why do you want me to?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

We should pick who our tourney cop majority choice should be, should we do that.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Want to see your thoughts on it. I know why I don't want to do it. If it's something you feel shouldn't be explained, that's fine.,

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Want to see your thoughts on it. I know why I don't want to do it. If it's something you feel shouldn't be explained, that's fine.,

Eh, not so much that I want to keep things secret. It's just that I have nothing too say that you wouldn't expect me to. I mean, I could be wrong anyway given how different this game is but I think there are more effective strategies regardless - like the one with the cop I mentioned earlier. And if we can just give byes to cleared players each Day phase there's always somebody who can just skip the whole battle thing alltogether.

I can only share Kantrip's sentiments on the lack of motivation. Convincing people of one's read seems to be pretty minor unless you are very sure somebody is scum and you have a very good explanation for it. But things like town-reads or forming a majority kind of fall flat for the most part. Right now most people seem to prefer talking over the mechanics and I honestly can't see anything wrong with that right now.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

We still need a bye selected. Who do you think should get it atm?

 

[Picture Perfect]

sup

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Page 5, then caught up to this page. This came to my eyes:

We should pick who our tourney cop majority choice should be, should we do that.

^ I'm okay with this idea.

 

[Picture Perfect]

at this post

I like Soup and Rake.

Unbye

I refrain from making comments on Soup but you have to explain Rake to me.

 

[Picture Perfect]

You're looking like a mighty fine investigate for our friend the tourney cop right now.

I see literally no reason to blow an investigation at all on Kantrip. He's one of the few players actively doing anything right now that isn't pissing and moaning about something.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Dietz here, It's my birthday and I've been partying all weekend (and therefore not reading), but I'm up to page 2 at this very moment and just want to say:

I think we should be forcing byes on mafia members. It keeps them out of the actual matches and therefore out of the match-up knowledge, which I believe will be the key to winning these games.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Do something about it then

At what point in the game do I have to force you to do anything? Why is it my responsibility to make you get out of the background when nearly every game I've seen you in you've done the exact opposite?

I seriously have no clue how soup or Xonar think this guy is town.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Rake lays out exactly how he claims to read me. Within those parameters is my play this game and yet he puts off giving a read on me for "a couple days." Why? I honestly don't think Rake is trying to read me. I've seen townRake try to read me in games before. All he's done in this game is look mechanically at the setup and say a whole lot of nothing.

A summary of what Rake said in our hotel room:

Introduces himself as an alcoholic
WATT asks him how he plans to approach the match mechanic. Rake responds saying he plans to "win them."
WATT says that's not what he meant, Rake does not give any other answer
Posts a list of 4 "tips" to help with the setup. These include that we should remember which restaurants get poisoned, that mafia members are going to switch hotel rooms a lot, that we shouldn't cheat unless we're low on points, and that we should only use the suspicion mechanic on people who were caught cheating.
Says some stuff about how we should pick mains with different colours and that everything else is random luck.
WATT and I both ask for clarification on things and ask why he says his third and fourth point. He responds that they should be common sense and gives us nothing more.

Now, personally I wanted Rake in my hotel room so he could try to read me early and I could see if it looked like he was actually doing it or not. Well, he's not even trying.

More later but I'm busy now, pce

I repeat: how does anyone find any scrap of town intent in this slot at all? I've never seen Rake or Rake!slot be this lazy in any game I've played with him. Throwing the meta out, this is damn shady as well.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Actually made my day PJB lol.

Iunno, Ironically kantrip saying I'm not trying to read him is pretty funny considering I feel the same about him towards me. I want to say his non-committal is null but I think it runs to the side of scum , I find myself agreeing with soup, that he was just looking for something to stick. Or moreso like he threw out the floater idea of my being scum to see what kind of bite he got on it. It's weird because I called him a damn fool and probably town, but I've gone over Kantrip a little and I don't find myself picking up a lot of early kantrip town tells like I normally would.

what

how do you get things to stick in a mafia game without a lynch? this is literally a game of "post our reads and get a consensus on who's the towniest of town to bye them". it's kinda hard to push a read beyond stating it when it'll go nowhere outside of investigation.

Plus the things he doesn't like me for are a lot of null tells that I think Knatrip's just now trying to twist into half a scum read to substantiate himself on it after being called out on it, the concerns he's listing off mainly occurred before game start and yet when prompted he had to go back to get them like they are easily forgettable or not so telling he'd be able to rattle them off like a condemnation. From mypov, that means he's just looking for reasons to label me as scum, rather than actually read me, and i don't think it's townTrip who's doing it mistakenly atm. I don't see Kantrip trying to understand my intentions.

except none of it is null. i fail to understand how you see your actions as null. you digging your heels in the dirt to comment or commit to anything while failing to give any content and that insight into the hotel room (i hope watt backs it up) is incredibly scummy play and kantrip's read is based on that.

Like, wrt Kantrip's first paragraph: I don't know what he expects me to be saying that would change his read drastically, and I haven't even taken as mechanical a look at the set up as he's asserting. The idea that there exists a special way or series of posts that would enlighten kantrip to my amazing townhood baffles me.

please tell me you doubt soup and xonar for distrusting my slot then because that's the exact same crap they're pulling there.

And yeah, I didn't clarify, because the points I made were extremely obvious, them asking for clarification was just a useless question, it doesn't help them if I baby-sit them and spell out every little thing I'm thinking or meaning, that's neither my job, nor am I going to waste my time doing it.

if they're asking questions, maybe it's not obvious?

like, really?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Kantrip's recap of our hotel room antics was accurate.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

We still need a bye selected. Who do you think should get it atm?

Is there something like a bye count?

Fab or PJB seem like decent choices. It probabnly won't matter too much toDay anyway. I'll think about it some more and select a bye tomorrow.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Nabe put one up a few pages back, iunno that much has changed.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Like, I really don't feel motivation to go in-depth with any of my reads because there is no reason to convince others I'm right. Only the tourney cop's stances matter, there is really no motivation for me to show others why I'm reading players the way I am. This game is literally a bunch of playing matches, where each individual person will use their own judgement as to whether their opponent is scum or not. With no collective town lynch, I don't see the incentive to work together in this setup.

I would like to see your reason for having them, Kantrip. Just because we all have individual goals does not remove the common goal of beating mafia from the game. We still do have reasons to work together.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Although Dietz's point about giving scum byes is interesting, assuming we don't keep putting the bye on the same scumspect.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Except that we can use a majority to punch someones ****ing lights out and people actually cooperating can help inform both that and the tourney cop. This game isn't just win/lose, Nabe's said there are multiple endings possible between the extremes. You odn't need to go full out with everything. but you do need to at least show you have a thought process.

most townie slot of them all holy ****

 

[Picture Perfect]

Dietz here, It's my birthday and I've been partying all weekend (and therefore not reading), but I'm up to page 2 at this very moment and just want to say:

I think we should be forcing byes on mafia members. It keeps them out of the actual matches and therefore out of the match-up knowledge, which I believe will be the key to winning these games.

this is actually an incredibly intelligent idea.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Although Dietz's point about giving scum byes is interesting, assuming we don't keep putting the bye on the same scumspect.

The problem with it is that we can't use multiple byes and we don't really have any assurance on it unless the tourney cop finds a maf member or two that we can keep using it on. With MAF having 4 members (so sayeth the rules), we run into a problem where, while we're possibly denying one member information, there's still three others out there learning what they can about players. By the time we actually get mafia down to one or two members, they'll have a lot of information there is.

It's a decent idea in theory but it's not really applicable.