Koopa VS Kefka -- The Endless Tournament ends! Who took home the prize?

[Wots All This Then?]

Yea, plus i don't like the idea of giving scum a free two points to run through the tourney.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Eh, not so much that I want to keep things secret. It's just that I have nothing too say that you wouldn't expect me to. I mean, I could be wrong anyway given how different this game is but I think there are more effective strategies regardless - like the one with the cop I mentioned earlier. And if we can just give byes to cleared players each Day phase there's always somebody who can just skip the whole battle thing alltogether.

I can only share Kantrip's sentiments on the lack of motivation. Convincing people of one's read seems to be pretty minor unless you are very sure somebody is scum and you have a very good explanation for it. But things like town-reads or forming a majority kind of fall flat for the most part. Right now most people seem to prefer talking over the mechanics and I honestly can't see anything wrong with that right now.

You're right, and I hate that you're right. It's not that we shouldn't be finding scum but that it actually is beneficial to have proper strategy discussions while we're all allowed to talk to one another at the moment. I still think we need to be open with our thought processes because reading one another is still important, just not as wholly important as it is in a regular game.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

this is actually an incredibly intelligent idea.

Would you rather take the risk of possibly moving a MAF member up in the bracket? If a town and a town go against each other one of them is going to have to lose and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that 2 points is better than 1.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Yea, plus i don't like the idea of giving scum a free two points to run through the tourney.

Given that they have multiple ways of freely winning the match-up through banned moves, you may actually be effectively denying them another point by giving them a bye.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

It would be much easier to eliminate the MAF by playing in matches, even if they have an advantage. I've already stated how I believe you shouldn't be afraid to cheat, and Nabe has even implied it.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Would you rather take the risk of possibly moving a MAF member up in the bracket? If a town and a town go against each other one of them is going to have to lose and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that 2 points is better than 1.

I was moreso intrigued by the concept of denying information from mafia. It's like watching Smogon at the start of a new generation on what's good and what's not. People can make assumptions based on certain things but for the most part, we know nothing about how good anything actually is, so denying mafia the chance to stumble on something broken is actually a boon for town, even if we are putting mafia up higher in the bracket.

 

[Picture Perfect]

It would be much easier to eliminate the MAF by playing in matches, even if they have an advantage. I've already stated how I believe you shouldn't be afraid to cheat, and Nabe has even implied it.

Making the tourney cop's job harder doesn't sound optimal to me, but I think you're right in practice.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

We can play matches in our hotel rooms. I doubt they would stay uniformed for long.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

one role's job over the collective town doesn't sound like a fair trade off imo.

 

[Picture Perfect]

We can play matches in our hotel rooms. I doubt they would stay uniformed for long.

**** i forgot about this

fair enough, carry on, i'm dumb, etc.

 

[Picture Perfect]

one role's job over the collective town doesn't sound like a fair trade off imo.

Considering the tourney cop's ejection is one of three ways to remove mafia from the game right now, I'd love to make his job easier. From my understanding, he only gets one chance at removing a person at all, and that's at the end of this cycle of phases. If just for one cycle, I seriously think it'd help us out. Cheating afterwards is probably a better bet but right now? I'm not so sure.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

• This cycle will continue at least for 6 game Days, and will continue beyond that if necessary until the point spread defines an 8-player Winner's Bracket. After the last Night phase of the cycle, Day Cycle 2 will start.

If I'm getting this right, Then the tourney cop doesn't get a guess until six day phases from now? or at the end of every day phase until then?

 

[Picture Perfect]

If I'm getting this right, Then the tourney cop doesn't get a guess until six day phases from now? or at the end of every day phase until then?

Oh.

Man I need to actually read this **** again.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

If I'm getting this right, Then the tourney cop doesn't get a guess until six day phases from now? or at the end of every day phase until then?

MOD-Can you clarify on this?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

It's more about trying to let town get the information than it is about denying the one suspected member.

All I know is I don't want the bye, ever.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Haha wow, thread moved a lot since where my browser was...

My thoughts on bye use still stand.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I don't think giving mafia free bracket progression is a great idea. It forces the townies to take each other out, instead of having a shot at beating the mafia. It also makes it that much less likely that the tourney cop will catch a mafia cheating, because one of them isn't playing a match. Then on top of all that, there's the obvious point about them just plain getting ahead for free.

 

[Kantrip]

This Shocodoro Blecktard likes soup and Rake and dislikes me?

What is the world coming to?

BRB gonna change my playstyle to **** and complain when people pressure me, use some AtE, look at the mechanics of the setup, and get ****-all done.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

You act like I'm not going to cheat out of my ass during cycle 1 as a townie either.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

You act like I'm not going to cheat out of my *** during cycle 1 as a townie either.

right, but if both players cheat, it doesn't do anything, so it's pointless. All it does is open you up to getting caught by the tourney cop. And if there's no mafia in the match the tourney cop watched, then what have we done for the town? What we've done is give the mafia a free bye to the next round, that's what.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Lol what is this phase even for like im kinda losing motivation to even give a **** and just focus on matches instead of ******* around with reads that won't even matter i mean yeah tourney cop making his job easier but lol

 

[Wots All This Then?]

right, but if both players cheat, it doesn't do anything, so it's pointless. All it does is open you up to getting caught by the tourney cop. And if there's no mafia in the match the tourney cop watched, then what have we done for the town? What we've done is give the mafia a free bye to the next round, that's what.

If we're going against a townie, then we're doing what we need to do to get ahead regardless of our opponent because if mafia wins the tourney we're ****ed anyways. if both players cheat, then we just have to be smarter in our move/char selection, which ties back into why we don't want the bye used on us.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Lol what is this phase even for like im kinda losing motivation to even give a **** and just focus on matches instead of ****ing around with reads that won't even matter i mean yeah tourney cop making his job easier but lol

It'll be different next morning phase because we'll have anights worth of info to use.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

right, but if both players cheat, it doesn't do anything, so it's pointless. All it does is open you up to getting caught by the tourney cop. And if there's no mafia in the match the tourney cop watched, then what have we done for the town? What we've done is give the mafia a free bye to the next round, that's what.

That'd be unfortunate if the tourney cop watched two townies cheat each other yes, but what we did is give each player the opportunity to play a match.

Realize that when Cycle 2 hits all points are thrown out the window and the only thing that matters is who is left standing in the double elim bracket. After you're in the top 8, you've done the "best" you can for Cycle 1 point-wise, but you can always get more matchup experience for Cycle 2.

The way I see it: Mafia has super cheats. Banned moves beat actual cheats, so they're going to win a good portion of the matches they're in in Cycle 1 regardless of who gets a bye. What we can control though is who gets information from those matches in Cycle 1. They might get a "free" Top 8 ticket, but I'd take a mafia member to the top 8 with me to cold clock them in a cheat-less Tourney Cop watched match with all the matchup knowledge I have and they don't over letting them play their matches and seeing the average of multiple 3 point wins and a handful of 1 point losses end up being higher than a constant 2 point bye.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

If we're going against a townie, then we're doing what we need to do to get ahead regardless of our opponent because if mafia wins the tourney we're ****ed anyways. if both players cheat, then we just have to be smarter in our move/char selection, which ties back into why we don't want the bye used on us.

Yea u just have to do what u gotta do to stay in it, even if it's TvT, but why make more TvT matches happen by giving mafia the bye? They progress for free, while simultaneously forcing a townie, somewhere out there, to lose.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

385 from my hydramate should cover that better.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

384 gorfdamnit

 

[Picture Perfect]

right, but if both players cheat, it doesn't do anything, so it's pointless. All it does is open you up to getting caught by the tourney cop. And if there's no mafia in the match the tourney cop watched, then what have we done for the town? What we've done is give the mafia a free bye to the next round, that's what.

PJB gets it.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

but the guy who gets the bye gets to watch a match. You're not denying him anything, you're just helping him.

 

[Kantrip]

Super Fab, Rake scum
Shocodoro suspicious
soup town
PP, PJB, WATT awesome town

Not substantiating. Get over it.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

say what?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

that was at joker.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

but the guy who gets the bye gets to watch a match. You're not denying him anything, you're just helping him.

They do?

Forget I said anything then, I'm going to have to re-think all of that.

At any rate it's party time and I'm relatively caught up now so.... time to have cake!

I'll probably be back tonight when the celebration dies down and I'm done symbolically drinking rootbeer for my 21st

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I'm pretty sure I remember reading something about the person who receives the bye being allowed to spectate a match? Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but I don't think so

 

[Wots All This Then?]

quote it fer me, I didn't see it when i just skimmed the rules.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Yup, here it is

Match: After lunch, the players each play a match, through PMs with me. Scoring is best two of three rounds. The winner of a match gets 3 points. The loser of a match gets 1. Any player with a bye, if there is one during this phase, gets 2 points. Players who are sick with food poisoning from Lunch forfeit their match for the Day, and get no points, unless they have a bye. Players may talk in the thread during this phase, but matches are only played in private. The bye contacts me privately to Spectate any one match of their choice, meaning they'll learn some otherwise private details of the match.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

So many new goddamn things to keep track of in this game

 

[Wots All This Then?]

well shiiiiiieeeeeeeettttt.

 

[Super Fabulous]

On mechanics. I'm fine with discussing it and getting a plan down, but I also need some scumhunting because otherwise I'll get bored and lazy like I did in Nabe's Persona 4 Mafia. I think just talking to each other and getting feels on each other is a good way of scumhunting, even though we have no votes. I guess we could use that one time lynch on later days like the third day so we can at least get a flip and get more information somehow. We can't entirely rely on the cop nabbing scum. We do have to rely on our only tools, however limited they may be.

On the cop. It's up to the cop to not interfere with his own townreads, obv. He wants us to cheat, and he wants to catch mafia cheating, not townies. He really has to do that work for things to go smoothly. We can help the cop by talking it out and he can read the discussion afterward.

On mafia. Speculating on what they might have isn't going to do a thing. We'll have to go on whatever information we do have. I don't think there would be a way to LEARN of any inside mafia secrets because we already know the pr's in the game.

On Byes. I don't think one person should get a bye every phase. We don't know for sure what their alignment is, so it's better to give someone else a chance. Anyone with me on this?

I still think we should talk about the moves within our hotel rooms, but that means we can't just move around hotels. We sort of have to have a PERMANENT hotel room or we risk the chance of possible mafia trying to get more info with the excuse of "I want to see what this guy is saying so I can read him better" or something.

That's all I have to think about the setup at the top of my mind. I just wanted to get in on this discussion while I could. I'll post some reads later.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

i'm probably not discussing anything move related unless I'm sure the guys in my hotel room are town. That's a small list right now.