Koopa VS Kefka -- The Endless Tournament ends! Who took home the prize?

[Wots All This Then?]

because you're getting so hung up on it when i know that it's something that's null for soup regardless. he's emotional, he's gonna throw ate. asking whether or not it's faked is something i barely, if ever do, because i don't care for that argument.

i mean he did when he was here. how was he not?

i actually don't mind soup in the slightest and have had him as a town read or close to that ever since the very early spat with him. when he gets over his attitude, he's useful. the problem is the attitude is probably 75% of his gameplay. that early spat was caused by his random and weird pressure on wott and the ensuing argument between he and kantrip. that post j liked of potato's way early on is probably the best point but i don't remember it word-for-word at the moment.

Which PP head is this?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Do you think scum are likely to bus in this game?

When they don't know each other, I can see then putting themselves over each other.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

they made somewhat of a deal out of it in thread though i think that might be attributable to soup digging at it.

Soup made a deal out of it, not they themselves.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I don't want to play the ****ing game and I'm trying to ask questions and stay in this thread out of respect. If there were replacements I would hand my slot to one because I'm going through some **** irl that really makes me not want to deal with this complicated **** right now.

In response to your more respectful post, that is actually very strange. Have we been assuming a Rake/Gheb scumteam then? It's pretty stupid for scum to throw matches when they know they could be watched....

I just had a murder/suicide in my extended family and I'm still here, replace out.

Gun to your head, out of the presidential candidates of a country you've never heard of, who would you elect?

I don't have a pick. Gheb is dead null to me.

We have 3 for the team in my eyes then.

Rake/Gheb/Kantrip

I think PP is giving Soup too much leniency but I could see any of Soup/Shoco/Pawn/an Inactive filling the last slot.


I'm down for a Gheb removal, the only other person I'd suggest at this time is Rake, but that should sort itself by the end of Cycle 1.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Why would Rake do that considering people talking about removing Gheb in the first place? Why not the other way around, if this was a partne deal? It makes no sense.

IMO it seems more like Gheb was non-verbally giving Rake the opportunity to choose whether he beat him or not, and Rake wasn't decisive about it.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I actually just had a thought. Gheb is currently tied for first place in the rankings. If he's town, do we really want him to be removed? Maybe we should consider saving him for the tourney cop to accuse. If he's still high up in the rankings, then we either get to remove scum who was really high in the rankings, thereby replacing him with the tourney cop and having confirmed town with a high seed. Or, if Gheb is town, we'll have confirmed towngheb with a high seed in the bracket.

Perhaps waiting to let this play out is more valuable in terms of bracket placement. You can disagree with people saying "but I'm not sure!" all you want, but it's kind of hard to argue with the numbers. Using his position to guarantee us a confirmed townie with good bracket position is smart.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I think this is the best choice atm. We can discuss it more in the hotel room tonight, but Rake makes an excellent candidate for Tourney Cop removal after Gheb is removed instead of vice versa.

(afaik we don't know that Tourney Cop gets to replace them in bracket, they simply have a place in bracket if they guess right. So I think that's a little too much riding on the speculation that Gheb will stay high in placement and will get replaced directly with the Cop)

 

[Kantrip]

Aren't Rake and Gheb equally scummy right now?

We wait until closer to cycle 2, remove the one with less points, and have the tourney cop check the one with more points. If they happen to be town, they're high in the winner's bracket.

So removing Rake in a phase or two is the superior option.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

why does rake make excellent tourney cop removal? He doesn't have any points, so we don't gain anything. Only 8 people are gonna make it to bracket, and we DO NOT want to accuse somebody who isn't making it to bracket. We'd be removing scum who was already not an issue, and replacing them with town who can't help us. Or, we'd be confirming town who can't help us.

 

[Kantrip]

why does rake make excellent tourney cop removal? He doesn't have any points, so we don't gain anything. Only 8 people are gonna make it to bracket, and we DO NOT want to accuse somebody who isn't making it to bracket. We'd be removing scum who was already not an issue, and replacing them with town who can't help us. Or, we'd be confirming town who can't help us.

Everyone makes it to bracket. Some are losers bracket and some are winners bracket, but everyone is in

 

[Kantrip]

and the tourney cop goes in based on their seeding points, not going directly into the spot they vacated.

And I'm saying REMOVAL on Rake, not tourney copping him. The tourney cop checks the one with higher points (Gheb in this case). We have 2 removal mechanics, a vote and the tourney cop. The tourney cop can clear someone if they are town, so he should be checking our highest seeded scum candidate, in case they're town and we can clear them.

This isn't rocket science

 

[Wots All This Then?]

why does rake make excellent tourney cop removal? He doesn't have any points, so we don't gain anything. Only 8 people are gonna make it to bracket, and we DO NOT want to accuse somebody who isn't making it to bracket. We'd be removing scum who was already not an issue, and replacing them with town who can't help us. Or, we'd be confirming town who can't help us.

Because you're basing this decision on mechanics you've assumed, not mechanics that you know.

We'll discuss it in the room.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Everyone makes it to bracket. Some are losers bracket and some are winners bracket, but everyone is in

but we still have the opportunity to REMOVE him.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

like, the tourney cop would remove them too, but the thing is, i they are town, the tourney cop WON'T remove them.

 

[Kantrip]

like, the tourney cop would remove them too, but the thing is, i they are town, the tourney cop WON'T remove them.

Exactly. So pick someone who is high up in seeding so if they are town we have a clear with a good seed.

 

[Super Fabulous]

How is Gheb going to win in the future though if he's town. He keeps throwing the same move, so how can we expect him to stay ahead in points in the future?

I'm fine with Gheb removal > Rake cop.

Don't rely on Gheb's match tiering. Just do your best in your own matches and beat who you think is mafia.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Bye: Rake

Shoco can you like, play this game or replace out.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Exactly. So pick someone who is high up in seeding so if they are town we have a clear with a good seed.

wtf, yes, that's exactly what I've been saying.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Like, that's literally what I just said, Gheb has points, Rake doesn't. You follow me?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

How is Gheb going to win in the future though if he's town. He keeps throwing the same move, so how can we expect him to stay ahead in points in the future?

I'm fine with Gheb removal > Rake cop.

Don't rely on Gheb's match tiering. Just do your best in your own matches and beat who you think is mafia.

He only threw the same move over and over against Rake. He just won due a poisoning. We don't know for certain if he'll begin losing in the future. Throwing the same move over and over again could be a strategy.

 

[Kantrip]

Well then we aren't at a disagreement.

@Super Fab: That's why we should wait to use removal until we have a better idea of how points are going and more matches have been spectated. We can save it until more info. might as well do so

 

[Super Fabulous]

This is the absolute last time I defend this. After this, my half of the slot will not be making any more posts unless questions directed towards me specifically or I discuss things in depth with Ranmaru first.

Washed Laundry saying that my mentality needs to change because of how I feel about the hotel rooms when we have SO MUCH TIME to discuss is lol worthy and honestly I could care less. I chose the room that had the least people in the night 1 phase because we had the highest chance of getting into that room if more people were to make room changes, plus the room discussion you were having with whoever it was at the time (can't remember lol) made me feel like we had to choose room 1 or 3 (note that Ranmaru said he'd go Room 1, so I kind of get a vibe that he felt the same way a little bit) in order to avoid the whole "I want these selected people in my room" thing. I chose room 3 over room 1 for the reason I've stated. Take it or leave it. I'm not saying anything else about this regardless of how I'm pushed, so do not ask. It's obnoxious at this point.

LOL @ Rake feeding Gheb a win in the most idiotic way ever assuming that it's true.

Do we know that Joker is telling the truth? Anyone have 100% proof?

If scum had the ability to communicate with one another, I kind of doubt that they would use the same color over and over in order to get a win if they knew that the person with a bye could easily watch their match.

We should still removal vote Gheb, because iIrc, he was still confused with the mechanics. I wouldn't be surprised if they did that because they didn't know that Bye's could watch their matches with move colors. I'd be pretty upset if we got a huge upper hand advantage thanks to something really stupid like a mechanic miscommunication :|

If the player is playing like a moron, then the player will have a reason to lie. I dare you to make an argument as to why Rake's play wasn't idiotic. The only reasons why a person would have to lie would be because of their idiotic play. Would they really have to lie if they just played the match with different moves? Hell no. It was terrible play by Rake (if Joker is telling the truth), and I guess if we can assume that all of scum will be playing like morons, then discussion of the match phase will really be useful.

Going into specific colors for matches doesn't matter because cheating can change your colors.

The scum reads in this game are annoying when it comes to our slot. Shoco, Gheb, and Rake are possibilities, but they're all way too inactive for our slot to actually pursue. Until Gheb is removed, our slot also assumes that Joker is telling the truth and that he is town. If Gheb flips scum, Rake is obviously scum, and we'd probably feel fine with tourney coping Rake since top 8 winners bottom 4 losers (all 12 will still make it in. We're still not certain about our mechanics... Really?). If Rake is removed, we have confirmed town via tourney cop in the bracket and we can easily get him to the top of winners bracket assuming that tourney cop wins his matches and gets placed in top 8. The fact that there will only be three in losers bracket makes that more possible, but the fact that he can't cheat really doesn't help him at all.

I'll let other head go into our other scum reads and such.

 

[Super Fabulous]

*going into specific colors for matches doesn't matter as much as it should because cheating can change your colors

Those few words are very important lol.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

My point is that using Removal on Gheb and tourney copping Rake isn't optimal for bracket positioning. By Removing Gheb, we're removing somebody who IS IN THE LEAD, and if he's town, it's a ****ing huge loss, because that's a bunch of points that town won going down the drain. Rake has no points, so potentially keepign him aroudn by tourney copping him is a huge waste, because it doesn't help us. Even if he turns out to be town, we don't gain anything, because if he's town, he's playing like a moron, and he's doing terribly.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Gheb
Soup
Pawn
Potas

Come at me.

Also one of them could be replaced with one of my more town reads or ryker easily. No, that's not the order I want to lynch them in, but I have to wait to see where Gheb's flip takes me first.

What? I don't really understand your scum-team here. You're still scum-reading me? Elaborate for me.

 

[Kantrip]

My point is that using Removal on Gheb and tourney copping Rake isn't optimal for bracket positioning. By Removing Gheb, we're removing somebody who IS IN THE LEAD, and if he's town, it's a ****ing huge loss, because that's a bunch of points that town won going down the drain. Rake has no points, so potentially keepign him aroudn by tourney copping him is a huge waste, because it doesn't help us. Even if he turns out to be town, we don't gain anything, because if he's town, he's playing like a moron, and he's doing terribly.

Yeah I agreed with you. We should be removing Rake and tourney copping Gheb

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Yeah I agreed with you. We should be removing Rake and tourney copping Gheb

and I'm talking to super fab

 

[Super Fabulous]

That's why I say that instead of worrying about the person who is doing the best, worry about your own match and do your best instead. Don't try to change the course of actions for a better play on mechanics. Gheb is a better removal than Rake, out of the only removal we can ever use. We want Gheb Blood. Also you have to trust in the cop targetting who we say as well.

 

[Picture Perfect]

If they're acting scummy yes, hell, they might even bus early. I've done that several times as scum.

In a game where it's better to keep your mates? Like, this is the big hanging point for me--I don't know if scum would willingly distance themselves this much and if Gheb and Rake are scum together, it's pretty clear that Gheb was using bull**** reasons to call them town or hold them at arm's length.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Depends on the situation. Scum can't really get much town cred for bussing since there is only one chance to do so (the removal), but there really isn't much risk since there aren't as much lynches to waste on connections. Sure the cop target is a possibility but it can happen once per cycle, so it's still not really risky.

So I can see scum bussing in thread, or rather, just throwing out scum reads knowing that there is only ONE chance to get one of them. To seem townie, 1/4 going down isn't a bad gamble.

july isn't in this game

i'm still tentative bu tthis makes a good point.

 

[Picture Perfect]

I think if Rake and Gheb are scum Rake would throw the match because Gheb could have an advantage in Cycle 2. iirc we don't know what two of the MAF even do.

u wot m8

sorry this just came outta left field

 

[Picture Perfect]

ebwop: and where did we figure out what anyone other than the poisoner exactly did? we know the guy with the phone can talk to other guys but we know that he also can mess with the tourney cop.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Which PP head is this?

if j didn't make the post, assume it's laundry. j has posted maybe 10 posts in this thread and at least half have been on his account.

 

[Picture Perfect]

When they don't know each other, I can see then putting themselves over each other.

i'd assume scum know one another, wouldn't they? why would nabe deny them the ability to talk to one another and then put a role in the game that allows them to communicate with his partners if they don't know who they are?

 

[Picture Perfect]

I actually just had a thought. Gheb is currently tied for first place in the rankings. If he's town, do we really want him to be removed?

is he any use even if he is in first place?
Maybe we should consider saving him for the tourney cop to accuse. If he's still high up in the rankings, then we either get to remove scum who was really high in the rankings, thereby replacing him with the tourney cop and having confirmed town with a high seed. Or, if Gheb is town, we'll have confirmed towngheb with a high seed in the bracket.

Perhaps waiting to let this play out is more valuable in terms of bracket placement. You can disagree with people saying "but I'm not sure!" all you want, but it's kind of hard to argue with the numbers. Using his position to guarantee us a confirmed townie with good bracket position is smart.[/quote]
can we use it on soup instead? soup's currently tied with gheb at the moment, is a hell of a lot more active, still has suspicions from players, and will actually ****ing post here. this is ten kinds of more ideal to me than gheb.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

In a game where it's better to keep your mates? Like, this is the big hanging point for me--I don't know if scum would willingly distance themselves this much and if Gheb and Rake are scum together, it's pretty clear that Gheb was using bull**** reasons to call them town or hold them at arm's length.

It's always better to keep your teammates

Granted, I think in this game, I wouldn't expect as much bussing just to start. Just a food for thought.

 

[Picture Perfect]

ebwop: formatting.

essentially, my point is, let's say we confirm gheb is town but he still refuses to post here because i'm still playing this game. sure, the tourney cop will be a stump, but how useful is gheb, who has refused to post here since match phase yesterDay and has said nothing at all in his hotel room? do we really want a player like that confirmed over a player like soup, who players continue to doubt but will be relatively active if he is town and gets confirmed by the cop?

i still want to remove gheb. it's clear he's going to do the bare minimum yet won't modkill or replace himself for some reason.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

What? I don't really understand your scum-team here. You're still scum-reading me? Elaborate for me.

Yeah problem?

Granted, if I remember right, I said you'd be the least likely anyways or some **** like that.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Aren't Rake and Gheb equally scummy right now?

We wait until closer to cycle 2, remove the one with less points, and have the tourney cop check the one with more points. If they happen to be town, they're high in the winner's bracket.

So removing Rake in a phase or two is the superior option.

ghebscum confirms rakescum. ghebtown leaves rake's alignment in the air.

i literally remember nothing rake's done. this is strange but my read on him has basically evaporated and i have no time to reread.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Shoco can you like, play this game or replace out.

given that nabe has okayed us to bother players out of thread, i'm gonna start pestering ramses to post.