Koopa VS Kefka -- The Endless Tournament ends! Who took home the prize?

[#HBC | Joker]

I'm warming up to the gheb removal though. The Rake/Gheb team is looking pretty likely, to me.

 

[Dooms]

1. Anomandaris_Rake, Wots All This Then, PrivateJoker-Brown
2. Ryker, Shocodoro Blagshidect, soup, Potassium
3. Gheb_01, pawndidater2
4. Picture Perfect, Red Ryu, thethirdkoopa, Super Fabulous

That is the list I was going by. Sorry if it isn't good reasoning for you if I went by this, but I could personally care less at this point.

 

[Picture Perfect]

1. Anomandaris_Rake, Wots All This Then, PrivateJoker-Brown
2. Ryker, Shocodoro Blagshidect, soup, Potassium
3. Gheb_01, pawndidater2
4. Picture Perfect, Red Ryu, thethirdkoopa, Super Fabulous

That is the list I was going by. Sorry if it isn't good reasoning for you if I went by this, but I could personally care less at this point.

i dunno where this new attitude came from but i really don't like it

 

[Super Fabulous]

*Shrugs* I don't know what to tell you. Joey isn't as invested in the game as I am. He's like "Ugh this game ;-;" and this game wasn't what we were expecting when signing up together as a hydra.

You'll just have to consider our wincon for moving and what you just quoted above. If that's not enough, not much else I can do for ya.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Okay this is actually curious, why do you have them as null? Even though I'm still seeing traces of obnoxiously trolly townRamses, I still don't trust that slot farther than I can throw them.

Which I can't.

Because they're digital.

Well. From what I remember, they gave light content... at first, and didn't really follow up. I have no idea what they really want to do. They aren't here. So they are null. It's not that easy for me to read Xonar much at all anyways. Especially since they aren't here as much, and there isn't a vote thingy to see their trail. In this game it's easier to read people who are present, and talking. They are not doing that. If there is something you really think we should consider, then link/cite it so I can look at it. Otherwise I have no idea.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Well I know what to tell you: knock the attitude off. This isn't traditional mafia and Nabe made it clear when sign-ups went out that this would have some AGame elements to it. I don't know what all was to be anticipated but the excuses people have about not wanting to play the game are still excuses and it's obnoxious that people are flat-out ditching because it's not what they expected. You still have to play the game, just grit your teeth and find a way through it.

saying "idgaf dealwit /shades" just annoys me, you guys moved late in the day in the first place. i'm still confused as **** why you guys went into the room with two of your scumpicks, one of which you were willing to remove this morning. i get you guys have an alternate wincon that you want to fulfill but today and tomorrow aren't the last days to do it, so...why?

mod: prod gheb, kantrip, koops please?

 

[Super Fabulous]

now you know why i tell you ****ers to read beyond the ate

it's not that hard

just look at what he's doing

ffs

He's not doing much at all. Why the hell would he be AtE'ing if there isn't really any reason for him to do so. Why read past an option that Mafia can use?

I Mean REALLY. Do you think he has the right to be frustrated for people not using removal when he didn't TRY to push it at least? (he just slapped on the vote and said "I'm not doing anything until matches or removal")

Why are you saying "Soup come back and do some stuff so I can like you" , how is that pressuring him at all? In fact, you and Kantrip both disliked Soup for some reason but reconsidered. What was it again that you didn't like about Soup's early play and how does it fit with his play now?

 

[Super Fabulous]

Well I know what to tell you: knock the attitude off. This isn't traditional mafia and Nabe made it clear when sign-ups went out that this would have some AGame elements to it. I don't know what all was to be anticipated but the excuses people have about not wanting to play the game are still excuses and it's obnoxious that people are flat-out ditching because it's not what they expected. You still have to play the game, just grit your teeth and find a way through it.

saying "idgaf dealwit /shades" just annoys me, you guys moved late in the day in the first place. i'm still confused as **** why you guys went into the room with two of your scumpicks, one of which you were willing to remove this morning. i get you guys have an alternate wincon that you want to fulfill but today and tomorrow aren't the last days to do it, so...why?

mod: prod gheb, kantrip, koops please?

Well I mean *shades* as in there is nothing I can do from this head, since Joey did that. (Although I can just poke him if there are still things unexplained) The only thing on my mind was "Ok maybe I should look into where to move" and I would move in with another town read if possible, but Joey already did without me knowing. And of course, I was only thinking of moving because you guys wanted us to, and I was down to do so.

Yet you are right and the attitude should be knocked off, since it's coming from my slot. But the thing is I think Joey moved to any room he could to fulfill our wincon thingy. He told you himself, he doesn't look to rooms as a masonry thing for townreads. I did. Not him. I don't like the choice and would prefer another room. (And I would move back too) Also on joining this game, I didn't expect THIS. Sure I might have expected something weird yet awesome because of the flavor, but there isn't any voting. As you can see I'm still actively posting and talking reads, but that doesn't invalidate my lust for blood.

And also, when considering about scumreads, joey had a null on Pawn. On Gheb I dunno but I think he agrees with me. I looked back to see and it's still our fault:

1 -
2 - Koops, Rake
3 - Gheb, Fab, Soup
4 - PJB, Wott, PP

(Even with Rake moving to room 2 from Room 1 [which happened like 10 minutes before our move I think] there was still space elsewhere ;-

BUT, I don't get your last sentence. What do you mean 'today and tommorow' aren't our last days to do it? We have to move every day. Which means i'd just move back to your room if there is space. I'd prefer a room with me, wott, pp, and pjb. We already moved to Room4 (without even realizing I had that wincon, just moved cuz I wanted to talk with pp)

Also, I'm still down to remove Gheb. I just backed off because since it's our only one, I'm fine with waiting a bit (till tommorow or day4) to get more info. Joey and I talked about that and I was fine with waiting a bit. Nothing has changed for me in reading Gheb.

===================================

Finally, I just think it's an inconsistent play from ourselves. Joey doesn't consider the rooms to be helpful in anyway, while I'd use it as a masonry or just neighborhood. (As you can tell, I did talk reads, except on Soup+Kantrip because I was too lazy, while Joey chimed in) One thing I can agree with Joey is that discussion wise, it can happen in public too, which was why I was fine with delaying on soup kantrip. Only thing I can find it useful for is the private details we would only want to share with trusted players (read wise). [Like characters]

So otherwise, there is nothing else I can do (aside from poking Joey) but let you read my slot for it. I would consider it a mistake IF Joey was looking for who to join with, and didn't notice ... the others that moved, but consider that he was only looking for space, not for other players to join with, in order to fulfill this dang wincon.

If you still have any questions for the Ran side to answer, I'll try my best.

 

[Super Fabulous]

But you are right. Our entire slot should step up even though we didn't expect this kind of game, since I also want others to step up who also feel the same way. (Even I said that Gheb and Rake should post more and even if they are feeling bad or whatever they should still COMMIT since they signed up for this game)

 

[Super Fabulous]

except his ate sank him, he and xonar both played that game so incredibly bad that i willingly lead the bus on both of them and tried to play my way through because they played that ****in' bad d1

It did. But usually his AtE helps him. When people read him as a frustrated townie who has NO DAMN REASON to be frustrated, that irritates me. Even you at the time said that it made him SOUND frustrated. The "Gogdamnit soup" made it sound like you were conflicted, yet you say that it's just legit now. To me, when that post sounds FORCED to me, and you even are conflicted, it gives me bad vibes.

 

[Super Fabulous]

(Bad vibes that Soup may be trying to force his post to SEEM like a frustrated townie)

 

[Super Fabulous]

I'm kind of lost, but I think more than anything I'm just unmotivated. The lack of things we can actually do is kind of getting to me that way. I think we should remove someone next day phase, it should throw some things into perspective. Soup didn't really say anything new, he just copypasta'd some old stuff and stated the obvious.

Hmm, well. Can you refresh me on your reads then. I want you to try to get involved either way.

 

[Picture Perfect]

He's not doing much at all. Why the hell would he be AtE'ing if there isn't really any reason for him to do so. Why read past an option that Mafia can use?

I Mean REALLY. Do you think he has the right to be frustrated for people not using removal when he didn't TRY to push it at least? (he just slapped on the vote and said "I'm not doing anything until matches or removal")

Why are you saying "Soup come back and do some stuff so I can like you" , how is that pressuring him at all? In fact, you and Kantrip both disliked Soup for some reason but reconsidered. What was it again that you didn't like about Soup's early play and how does it fit with his play now?

because you're getting so hung up on it when i know that it's something that's null for soup regardless. he's emotional, he's gonna throw ate. asking whether or not it's faked is something i barely, if ever do, because i don't care for that argument.

i mean he did when he was here. how was he not?

i actually don't mind soup in the slightest and have had him as a town read or close to that ever since the very early spat with him. when he gets over his attitude, he's useful. the problem is the attitude is probably 75% of his gameplay. that early spat was caused by his random and weird pressure on wott and the ensuing argument between he and kantrip. that post j liked of potato's way early on is probably the best point but i don't remember it word-for-word at the moment.

 

[Picture Perfect]

If you still have any questions for the Ran side to answer, I'll try my best.

I'll just snip to this since I don't wanna requote all of that.

Your slot has issues and a lot of inconsistencies because your heads are disagreeing and it is 100% affecting my read on you guys. One of you or Joey does something and the other disagrees with it and while I want to say "oh well that's Joey" or "that's Ran", I have to hold you two as one slot. I know you two are disagreeing on things but please get on the same page. It's tremendously helpful to everyone playing if you can do that as I'm tired of seeing your slot disagree on even its course of action and then turn into a mess.

 

[Picture Perfect]

It did. But usually his AtE helps him. When people read him as a frustrated townie who has NO DAMN REASON to be frustrated, that irritates me. Even you at the time said that it made him SOUND frustrated. The "Gogdamnit soup" made it sound like you were conflicted, yet you say that it's just legit now. To me, when that post sounds FORCED to me, and you even are conflicted, it gives me bad vibes.

to which 'gogdammit' soup post are you referring because i tend to say that about soup a lot

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Okay, so an idea just popped into my head. Scum is more likely to used banned moves, correct? Well, why don't we catch them in the act? I know outing that was a bit foolish to me but I'm starting to think we should be more open about these things. It will be very obvious if someone is bending the system by a means of using banned moves based on results. I also believe that it would be beneficial to out what characters everyone has used, as this helps break things down and town can start planning accordingly. What characters are effective? What characters aren't? Which characters seem to be reaping the best results? I can't believe I haven't seen this come up but this is almost literally like when people discuss Smash and tier lists. I don't think it would be wrong to start doing this, and it can be very fruitful.

Does anyone have any oppositions? Would anyone like to add anything? I don't want to go through with this unless I get a majority of people agreeing to it. It's not worth me going on about this by myself. I need cooperation.

@Washed
I'll get to it. I promise.

 

[Kantrip]

I found a character with a colour buff! I now understand the universe.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Characters do not have color buffs. Neither do moves. Color buffs give you an inherent advantage battle, due to you using your counterpick versus their main.

What I'm certain you are referring to is a move with more than one color. That is not a color buff. It's as much a disadvantage as it is an advantage. It loses to the same number of moves it beats, it's just a broader range. It's not an advantage, it's just different.

 

[Dooms]

V/LA for Gencon. :D

 

[Wots All This Then?]

This is why I'm rather for Ruy's plan. I'm just worried about handing scum characters with banned moves because I know multiple players have found them.

I think we can learn some things about the character roster.

What if start with just character/move names? Not the colors, but the actual names?

Have thought about it, I would not at the moment. I'm down for Gheb and really Gheb alone. He's by far the most divisive slot in the game and I feel we learn a lot about multiple slots just by removing him.

I'm fine with this tomorrow after reflection.

I'm in a match with koops right now. Terra has a banned move.

Goddamnit soup.

y'know that whole gheb/rake scumteam i was angling at d1

it really hasn't gone away completely

you should really reconsider

why the hell are you revealing this all now anyway when you've been sitting on it for nearly a whole phase

Because dietz came back form v/la and pointed a bunch of **** out we hadn't noticed.

...sigh.

Alright, rather than continuing to *****, I think it's time we do something. We can't delete the post so scum have at least one character with a banned move and all the ways in the world to abuse that. Let's try to make something of it.

We have Ruy's plan, right? The one where we out every single character we've used and their entire movelist, yes? We may as well put this plan in motion, but we need to do two things in order to really make it work:

1) We have to check characters. Catching scum in a lie is great but we need to do the homework and make sure they're not lying. Thankfully we have matches to play at night so this will allow us to doublecheck this pretty effectively well.
2) We need to find a way to punish scum after catching them in a lie, should they, in fact, lie.

The convenient thing about this is that it forces scum to play to our hand more instead of ours to theirs. Yes, they still have the option of cheating, but we can at least deny them the option of using a banned move.

The problem I have with this is characters with an overlapping movepool. All three of my characters have had very similar color pools with only one move varying between the three of them.

1-Dietz and I have already started making a chart documenting every character move set we've come across/learn of.
2-Tourney cop for this phase.We have suspicion as well in phase two and we can have the tourney cop check on people we don't suspicion.

Gheb/Rake still possible, so is Gheb/Pawn, though I dunno about Gheb/Pawn/Rake given that Rake was so adamant about removing him.

lemme think about my working scumteam. i'm just as skeptical about gheb continually throwing the same move and winning as i am about rake continually throwing **** that loses to it when it's clear gheb's not changing his color.

Rake bussing pawn's worthless ass? Would not put it past him to eliminate a worthless sucm team member

it doesn't really matter much anymore. I mostly wanted to just point out that gheb is throwing the same move over and over, and that he'd probably keep doing it until he lost. But that's already out there, and if he is aligned with rake, then he knew about it when we were discussing it, because rake was in the room.

Mafia has no outside communication aside form a phone.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

He's not doing much at all. Why the hell would he be AtE'ing if there isn't really any reason for him to do so. Why read past an option that Mafia can use?

I Mean REALLY. Do you think he has the right to be frustrated for people not using removal when he didn't TRY to push it at least? (he just slapped on the vote and said "I'm not doing anything until matches or removal")

Why are you saying "Soup come back and do some stuff so I can like you" , how is that pressuring him at all? In fact, you and Kantrip both disliked Soup for some reason but reconsidered. What was it again that you didn't like about Soup's early play and how does it fit with his play now?

Look at everything that Isn't soup ********. read him off of that. it makes it so much easier.

I found a character with a colour buff! I now understand the universe.

Do ****. You have a post aimed at you form me with morning phase.,

 

[giraffelasergun]

I have two concerns I'd like to address before we start mass claiming characters.

Concern #1: Are we okay with scum learning of characters that do have banned moves and are just better than others? MAF already has the advantage over us in matches, do we want to increase that advantage by allowing them to have access to characters that will maximize MAF's potential and or give them even more of an edge?

Concern #2: I'm also worried that we may rely too heavily on trying to catch people in a lie. My first concern is that just because someone lies about a move or a character that they used, doesn't necessarily mean that the person is MAF. Secondly, I don't think Nabe would make the set up in a way that we could easily just use mass character claiming to catch all of team MAF.

Soup's more recent posts have showed me that he does actually care about this game. Kantrip's post(s?) don't.

Also, I'll have limited access to the internet Sunday-Wednesday.

 

[Kantrip]

I'm really behind on reading :/

I'll look for that post directed at me but honestly this game hasn't drawn me in...

 

[Picture Perfect]

I found a character with a colour buff! I now understand the universe.

i hate you stop prod-dodging

 

[Picture Perfect]

Concern #1: Are we okay with scum learning of characters that do have banned moves and are just better than others? MAF already has the advantage over us in matches, do we want to increase that advantage by allowing them to have access to characters that will maximize MAF's potential and or give them even more of an edge?

two things:
1) given that at least 4(?) people have claimed they've found a banned move or i've assumed as much, i'd have to imagine scum have already stumbled across at least one.
2) it'll give us a pool of knowledge to work from. the thing about mafia is that the scum always have additional information that allows them to maintain an advantage--in a normal game's case, the identity of their mates but also things like why the nk happened and other **** based from roles. in this game, by pooling that knowledge, we're boosting town's general knowledge--yeh, scum will also learn it but so will town. it shrinks any informational advantages scum have in this game. 'sides, it's not like it matters much anymore after soup ****ing claimed one in thread, as each scum can just pick terra and exploit the banned move. remember how i kept saying that the match phase still gives us information?

Concern #2: I'm also worried that we may rely too heavily on trying to catch people in a lie. My first concern is that just because someone lies about a move or a character that they used, doesn't necessarily mean that the person is MAF. Secondly, I don't think Nabe would make the set up in a way that we could easily just use mass character claiming to catch all of team MAF.

it won't be as easy as simply just mass claiming. throwing that pool out there isn't gonna yield us four scum. also you'd be surprised. as joey was saying earlier, there's no reason for anyone to lie about cheating now. doing this does put a reason out there--you don't need to lie about cheating but if you're using banned moves? that's a whole 'nother story.

one other note: we damn well aren't claiming spontaneously. there will be a list that we go down and i refuse to claim until other people (gheb/shoco/pawn/rake come to mind immediately).

 

[Picture Perfect]

@wott: on a scale of 1-10 how much would anyone sensibly bus someone in this game? enough to say that they should be removed?

 

[Picture Perfect]

@Mod: How long until Gheb is modkilled? You said lunch phase/match phase of the next day? Does posting in the hotel rooms count as activity?

 

[Picture Perfect]

something i thought about earlier today is koops joining ruy in room 2. normally i wouldn't pay it much mind but i think koops' stated reasoning for joining ruy in room 2 was because he wanted to go with someone he could trust or some reason like that. that seemed incredibly out of place, given who was in his room at the time and the readslist he gave. lemme go see if i can find it.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Head's up to everyone. It's just gonna be me for a while. Alex is without computer for unknown time. I'll post on PP but just a notice.

irony at its finest

(miss u bby)

 

[Picture Perfect]

can i change with you i want someone i'm familiar with

I've got nothing else, really right now. Gheb isn't even here

found i (this is directed at ruy).

anyone else find this incredibly ****ing strange?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

found i (this is directed at ruy).

anyone else find this incredibly ****ing strange?

i want to be with a friend
is there a problem with that
its not like nobody wanted me in their rooms anyways

(also laundry is that you because i've been waiting on that role list)

 

[Thirdkoopa]

also oh the thread is back i didn't even notice

what have i missed

i'll read tomorrow i replaced in another game just earlier

 

[Picture Perfect]

keep a better eye on this thakns

also if you didn't get the memo, my computer borked and has been away and i've also been at band camp gg

 

[Picture Perfect]

i want to be with a friend
is there a problem with that
its not like nobody wanted me in their rooms anyways

(also laundry is that you because i've been waiting on that role list)

skepticism.jpg

gogdammit what i would do to have my image folder back

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I feel like I'm waiting for Gheb and Rake to come back and see what they have to say for themselves, but in the meantime:

Soup what were you trying to advocate with these examples here, and what math was this based on?

Sysmatically speaking:

Scum has 6 points. He received one bye and he won one game.
Townie has 3 points. He received one bye and lost one game.

Scum has 4 points. He recieved two byes.
Townie has 4 points. He recieved two byes.

Scum has 2 points. He lost both games, and was caught for cheating
Townie has 5 points. He won both games.

Do you see how this stacks up?

Because if you're trying to use the situations on the right to base the point totals on like I think you are it should read:

Scum 5
Town 3

Scum 4
Scum 4

Scum 0
Town 6

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Probably just a mental error.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

say more please i'm completely lost

When I came in to read the night's events I found that Rake claimed he used a "darkish green move" with Bowser move against Gheb's "pinkish" one, and "He won.", both of them using their mains.

He goes on to describe the later matches, but I found it weird because Dark Green strictly wins against Pink on the color chart.

Rake says next time he went counterpick and Gheb went main, and he got a "color boost", he overtly did not specify which color the boost was for. Gheb chose to use a "pinkish" move, as did Rake. They tied and went again.

Rake "chose a dual type color move thing" [sic], while Gheb went pinkish again and won. Rake refused to give move names (and I guess neither Orbo nor PJB decided it was important enough to fully harass him for the rest of the color buff/dual color specifics of what he picked though honestly I really think they should have here)



PJB then reveals that in fact he was watching their match today. Problem? Obviously Rake didn't use the Dark Green move, he used Lime Green. I guess they didn't see the huge problem with Rake lying at the time but... it is a problem. Especially when you consider A) Rake didn't know he was being watched to be fact-checked, and B) Saying Bowser has a move the color of his shell seems like a conveniently believable lie. Pair this with the fact that Gheb for some reason picked pink every time, along with Rake's intentionally vague and reluctant responses to questions about the match and it starts to look like this was a match of bull****.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

A lot of this stuff about the rake/gheb match was stuff i wanted to go over in the hotel room with you, where gheb, and I guess rake, wouldn't see it.

We're going to have more to discuss in our room tonight about this stuff regardless I think...

 

[#HBC | Joker]

When I came in to read the night's events I found that Rake claimed he used a "darkish green move" with Bowser move against Gheb's "pinkish" one, and "He won.", both of them using their mains.

He goes on to describe the later matches, but I found it weird because Dark Green strictly wins against Pink on the color chart.

Rake says next time he went counterpick and Gheb went main, and he got a "color boost", he overtly did not specify which color the boost was for. Gheb chose to use a "pinkish" move, as did Rake. They tied and went again.

Rake "chose a dual type color move thing" [sic], while Gheb went pinkish again and won. Rake refused to give move names (and I guess neither Orbo nor PJB decided it was important enough to fully harass him for the rest of the color buff/dual color specifics of what he picked though honestly I really think they should have here)



PJB then reveals that in fact he was watching their match today. Problem? Obviously Rake didn't use the Dark Green move, he used Lime Green. I guess they didn't see the huge problem with Rake lying at the time but... it is a problem. Especially when you consider A) Rake didn't know he was being watched to be fact-checked, and B) Saying Bowser has a move the color of his shell seems like a conveniently believable lie. Pair this with the fact that Gheb for some reason picked pink every time, along with Rake's intentionally vague and reluctant responses to questions about the match and it starts to look like this was a match of bull****.

It wasn't really that I didn't see a problem with him lying. I absolutely have a problem with it. I just totally didn't realize that he had claimed to have used the Dark green, specifically. All I remember him saying was "green", which was the reason I gave more specific information when I was revealing how the match went down. I totally didn't even realize it was inconsistent with what he had said, or I would've been all over him for it.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

keep a better eye on this thakns

also if you didn't get the memo, my computer borked and has been away and i've also been at band camp gg

i never heard of all of this so I guess I'll see you soon. i only heard the computer borked part

skepticism.jpg

gogdammit what i would do to have my image folder back

Paranoia is what I'd call it until, unless you have a reason about it.