Koopa Questions: a Bowser Q&A Thread

[tru0067]

A lot of stuff on jab cancelling there

 

[Rizen]

@ If a character's juggling Bowser a lot how should he escape? Like with G&W I'd upB or Link I'd Nair>FF. What are good gtfo moves for Bowser to stop juggles?

 

[Cassius.]

down b, airdodge, dair, klaw, FF Fair, FF Nair, FF Uair if you're a ballsy mother****er, fire-breath either b reversed or whatever the opposite of that is that makes you go backward instead of changing direction...

you could up-b but that's pretty risky

seriously, i'm under the assumption that if you're being juggled they have to be in the air somehow. if they're on the ground then you should be able to escape fine.

do one of those things.

 

[tru0067]

And don't use just one of these options

Mix it up

Remain unpredictable

 

[Cassius.]

That is implied...

 

[Acedude55]

Can bowser stop falcon N-air spam

I swear its so good on him/dk

 

[Z'zgashi]

Up B

 

[Acedude55]

retreating nair tho

 

[Z'zgashi]

Power shield > jab.

Im about 95% sure jab should reach nair.

And even if Bowser cant punish it somehow, he can just move forwards after each nair, and eventually force Falcon to the edge where Falcon cant do it anymore and is no longer safe.

Or he could just space fair, as Falcon's legs have hurtboxes and Bowser's arm is invincible during fair.

 

[B!squick]

Invincible or intangible? There is a big difference, lol.

Also, can't Falco just SideB and begin anew? Ah well. If he's spacing NAirs instead of going for short hop double laser, I guess you already ahead of the game anyway.

EDIT: Also, also, I just remembered what Falco's NAir looks like. Yeah, FAir that noise. Or Dash Grab. Or Dash Attack. The world is your oyster really, I don't see how you could be having trouble with that move. I'd be more concerned if he was throwing out BAirs, to be honest.

 

[tru0067]

I think he meant Falcon as in Captain Falcon not Falco

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Using Bowser on a laggy TV is real fun, guys.

 

[B!squick]

I think he meant Falcon as in Captain Falcon not Falco

Don't mind me. I like to randomly pretend letters don't exist for yucks. That's the story I'm going with anyway.

Regardless, minus the part about SideB and lazorz, I think everything I said still applies. Unless you know the move is safe on shield, like DK's or Wolf's BAir, I'm pretty sure the answer is UpB OoS if they're near and not worrying about it at all if they're just spacing. Once you show them that attacking your shield is a bad idea, you're golden. It's only when they reach that point where they realize what they need to approach with that you should start sweating. Falcon's NAir is one of those things that just shouldn't be doing that to you.

UpB OoS is almost always either an answer or the best answer in most situations.

Unless you're MrEh. Then it's FSmash. GG.

 

[Dre89]

Upb OOS isn't always the best answer. In a lot of cases it's a sub-optimal punish, it's just that we're conditioned to use it whenever something touches our shield.

 

[Flayl]

That's only true for novice Bowsers, a common criticism in the video threads (back when we still gave a **** anyway) was to use fortress more intelligently and jab/klaw more after a shield drop

As for Captain Falcon "spamming" NAir, that really depends on the spacing. If he's hitting our shield with his feet we can jab/klaw and create a rock/paper/scissors situation where we have the speed and positioning advantage

If he's doing it defensively Bowser can short hop FAir towards Captain Falcon and jab/klaw on landing. Mix that up with short hop airdodges into fortress

Basically I don't see that tactic as a problem but maybe there's something I'm missing.

 

[B!squick]

Basically I don't see that tactic as a problem but maybe there's something I'm missing.

Ditto. As I pointed out long ago, Falcon's hit boxes come out later than Bowser's. As long you're not whiffing too many attacks, Bowser can pose quite a threat. It's probably one of Bower's better match-ups, honestly.

 

[Sarcastic White Mage]

Not really a fan of asking for advice, but I really need a good way to counter this problem. So it's pretty typical that Bowser has a hard time with people who tend to spam with projectiles, but the question is what should I do when I encounter this? So far the only problem I had with an actual player would be Lucas with pk fire. Dodging atm has been my only opinion but I still end up taking unneeded damage and just leaves me open for anything else lucas can do like Fsmash.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Do running power shields to close the gap. PK Fire is one of the easier projectiles to deal with honestly, so if you get the power shield timing down, it should be easy.

 

[Sarcastic White Mage]

Was afraid that was the answer I would get.....still I guess that just means I need to learn to power shield more instead of trying to dodge (which became a extremely bad habit of mine).

 

[Flayl]

short hop airdodging works okay

 

[Sarcastic White Mage]

hmm....I'll keep that in mind. normally doesn't work for me well, but then again it might just be the fact that I hesitate when I make decision such as that.

 

[Rizen]

Bowser's attacks like jab will eat weaker projectiles but not Lucas' PK stuff. Sometimes you can attack, Fair etc through SH spam like Mario's fireballs and hit with the same attack. Transcendent attacks you must shield so watch out for space animal lasers.

 

[Cassius.]

you just need to get better at shielding and short hop airdodging. the former will benefit you in the long run, and the latter will benefit you in more situations than you would think. i would certain practice reactionary shielding and powershielding in general, because bowser benefits from a player who can throw up the defense on a whim.

 

[Sarcastic White Mage]

I've noticed from others that plays Bowser at a higher level, and So now the only problem is just fixing how I react to situations. thanks for the advice guys ^_^

 

[Youngster Joey]

I've noticed from others that plays Bowser at a higher level, and So now the only problem is just fixing how I react to situations. thanks for the advice guys ^_^

if you're using wifi as a source for how you would do against projectiles then you cant really say you cant get through. powersheilding is much harder to do correctly online. the lag is hard to get down since it varies depending on the connection. offline the only variation comes from the tv and that doesnt do anything. try learning powershield offline

 

[Sarcastic White Mage]

if you're using wifi as a source for how you would do against projectiles then you cant really say you cant get through. powersheilding is much harder to do correctly online. the lag is hard to get down since it varies depending on the connection. offline the only variation comes from the tv and that doesnt do anything. try learning powershield offline

O no I don't use wifi as a result, this is from me and a good friend of mine that play from time to time.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

MU questions:

Peach - I forgot how to play this MU- Or at least, I think I did. I would like to refresh that.
ZSS - You all know the ZSS hype after Salem won APEX. Well, in this case, my friend who mains ZSS got alot more threatening with ZSS mostly due to armor pieces- I'm terrible at dealing with them. To give you an idea, he does like Salem and initially throws two up and one forward, and then follows up accordingly from there.

 

[Cassius.]

instant throw it back. as a player your item handling game needs to get better, so figure out how to incorporate instant throwing into your game. you know what that is, right?

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Should I be be chasing my opponent in the air most of the time (not assuming against someone like Snake for the kill, which is obvious)? Like at Low/Mid percents, for extra damage, if the opponent is in the air, should I wait for them to land and punish or just throw out that F-Air?

 

[B!squick]

Depends on the situation. If you can hit them with the FAir though there's generally no reason to wait especially since it'll just give your opponent time to recover.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I hope I'm in the right spot. It's been so long since I've been on the Bowser boards, and I don't think I've seen the MU I'm looking for here (direct me to the right place if this is wrong), so here's my scenario:

There's a new AIB Ladder that features Low tiers only (with Luigis and Lucas allowed, dont ask why bout the Luigi part), and I'm going all Bowser to rep him up. I'm having difficulties with Samus in particular.
Aggressive play doesn't work, and trying to approach from the air with the help with BF and SV platforms to avoid most Missile/Z-air spam only can help for a short time and thus can't hold the momentum up.

On SV, the Samus tends to use the platform when it's not over the main platform to keep its distance and add a little extra spam while charging Neutral-B. When knocked into the air or off stage, it likes retreating to the ledge to get some U-airs or F-airs (if I'm close to the ledge), sometimes Z-air if I'm further away. I honestly can't get a lead either and stress out. On BF, apply the SV's ledge routine here too, except I can use the top platform to avoid much of the generic Samus spam, waiting for her to come back to the stage. The catch is that U-air and Up-B spam is more frequent here especially when I try getting closer from above.

The next part is that FD is often banned by the Samus (for some reason if not BF or Frigate) which makes me use BF most times, but the Samus love their U-airs and Up-Bs if I try to stay above to approach from above, but I know BF is one of Bowser's best places. Another situation made me use Halberd instead, which I did pretty well but couldn't hold the momentum. As for Delfino, I found out the hard way that it was a bad idea. Currently there's 2 Samus that have beaten me though, one being Tearbear's every time, then another one whose spamming frustrates me.

To make it short, what's the best way(s) to handle a Samus? What's the ratio of the MU, and what are the recommended stages to CP/Ban? There's other MUs that annoy me, but I want to start with Samus first.

 

[Rizen]

Ugh, wifi Samus as Bowser. Shield dash preemptively; it's really hard to PS so err on the side of having a shield up and take advantage of Bowser's OoS. At a certain distance/spacing Samus will usually use Zair so try to predict it. Samus' grab is very punishable so mix up spotdodges at that spacing. Get in her face because if you don't she wins.

I hate this MU.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I try that sometimes to mix it up, but too many projectiles and Z-airs flying about to close in sometimes. I mean one of em is a Smart Samus by default, the other just frustrates me. I forgot to mention that I often recover high if I see em getting close to avoid being spiked. Even then the Bowser Up-B landing lag for Bowser gets me hit anyways. I find the MU so much more frustrating than Links most definitely. At least you can gimp Link... Samus is just ridiculous for Boozer obviously.
Surprisingly, I find more Lucas than Samus there, and I haven't lost to a Lucas yet. Falcon is evil though, like Samus for Bowser imo.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

How do you buffer a Down-B out of a GR? I read the instructions, but Bowser keeps using flame even though I'm holding Down enough as to not crouch. It seems that I have to Down+B just as he lets go of the character, but that requires good timing. I can do D-Tilt just fine with his method, however.

 

[Hobobloke]

No point using it really, the first hit doesn't even combo into the second. Pretty sure they can just airdodge out.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Alright, how many characters can chaingrab Bowser? I know the wiki isn't the best resource, but it says many characters can chaingrab him and possibly zero death him. It seems plausible, and I just want to know who can do it if it's true.

 

[Cassius.]

Falco, Dedede, Ice Climbers, Yoshi, Wario. Those are all the relevant ones (keyword RELEVANT)

Falco's stops at a certain percent (like 60 ish), wario's stops at 180. The rest can go on as long as there's space to do so

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Falco can CG us to 53% to a spike, and it's actually possible for him to 0-death us with a footstool after the spike. Surprisingly, I've only had this done by one player who doesn't even main Falco.
Pit & PikaPika can CG us up to 60% and maybe even follow-up with an U-Smash (PikaPika) or F-Smash (Pit), although I'm rather unsure about the latter.

So yeah, those are pretty much the actual, relevant ones.

Could've sworn I've answered this.

 

[Cassius.]

I said those were relevant because I don't really count Pikachu's or Pit's as that serious. The characters I mentioned have an extremely high chance of taking a stock off if they get the chaingrab off. Falco's may be % dependent like Pikachu's or Pit's but the benefits he gets are huge.

If Pikachu can get some sort of footstool gimp bull**** off of the grab if it's near the edge then that may be different. Pikachu gets everything that pretty much every character can get on Bowser if they have grab setups. Damage and a chance to get him in the air to do more damage.

A lot of characters have small "chain" grab/re-grab shenaningans on Bowser at low percents but it didn't really make sense to list them all

Pit can get a Forward Smash after his grab series. I'm not sure if Bowser can SDI out. Someone who plays Brawl can test that for me

That's just me though, a lot of people feel differently. Besides there aren't a lot of (good) Pikachu players anyway. I play/used to play against a Pikachu player very often so I've learned to just work around the 62% lol

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Wish I've had a moderately decent Pikachu/Pit player to test that over here.

Anyway, dumb question:

How are we supposed to wait-out Falco until we're at an appropriate percent? Do we just...sit in the same place and get lasered?