Koopa Questions: a Bowser Q&A Thread

[MrEh]

I am shadow of my former self. :D

 

[Flayl]

You're like, bringing me down man

 

[Kaffei]

I hear Bowser has an infinite on MK
is this true

 

[Flayl]

Go read the MK Q&A

 

[Kaffei]

Thanks dude

 

[ccst]

Hello Bowser boards; just a question. What do you think about the R.O.B. MU and why? Thanks in advance!

 

[B!squick]

R.O.B.'s trash, that is all.

 

[Alien Vision]

I am looking for some answers to a few questions.

1. How do you escape Ness' PK Fire properly when unable to shield it?

2. Any use in Bowser's pivot grab?

3. Does Bowser's Side B have a supershield when used at the right time against another opponent's attack? There has been times my Side B cancelled theirs, and continued on with it's purpose.

4. Why do alot of Bowser mains neglect the idea to short hop, reverse B, next to an edge when somebody is recovering to avoid laggy start up?

5. Is down smash only good when you predict an awful roll dodge? The real damaging frame takes too much time as a regular attack.

6. Can more than one Bowser main answer these questions? I would like to hear different sides for a more beneficial understanding.

I am a proud Bowser main, not just another other character main looking for research.

 

[Cassius.]

1. SDI out of it.

2. Same use as any other pivot grab. Bowser can also buffer a pivot grab out of a ground release but it's pretty difficult to do.

3. Question sounds weird, but I think you're talking about grab armor. Like a grab, Bowser's Klaw has grab armor, where if executed at a certain point, you will take damage, but won't receive any knockback and your grab will go through as well.

4. I don't follow your question. SHKlaw next to an edge when someone is recovering?

5. I wouldn't use DSmash if you can predict the roll dodge. If you can predict it, why not just go for the FSmash/Any other deadly attack if your opponent is at death %s, or a grab/klaw set-up if not? Bowser's DSmash is SDI-able, so I wouldn't try that.

6. Well, I'm the first. lol

 

[Alien Vision]

1. How exactly?

2. A bit more information on this?

3. Yes, grab armor is the term I was searching for. Thanks.

4. Flamethrower move. Run towards the edge whilst your opponent is in ''Must Recover!'' mode. Immediately just before the edge, face the other way, short hop, then reverse B for that weird momentum and lagless execution. (Neutral B reversing)

5. I understand that, I was asking what are the other potential uses for D smash? I choose to mix up my Bowser game. If someone rolls into my Down Smash, they risk a DI bait. Which can lead to a kill just as much.

6. and.. I thankyou for that.

 

[Cassius.]

1. Look up how to SDI out of things. Just flick the joystick and the CStick to the direction closest to you to escape it I guess.

2. Flayl made a thread about that a while ago, I can't search for it now but I'm sure someone'll get it for you. It's extremely, EXTREMELY difficult, I haven't seen a Bowser pull it off in an actual set yet.

3. NP

4. What's the point of that. Just edgehog/react accordingly lmao.

5. None that FSmash/Klaw can't do. DSmash is just a move that's kinda outclassed by others.

6. Again, NP.

 

[Alien Vision]

1. I asked you, and other Bowser mains because it's easier to get information from somebody who can reply every now and then, then just what some person wrote down (I do respect the work they have done of course). IMO

2. I will look into it. Do you atleast have the title of the thread?

4. You do not seem to understand the value of mixing in the even smaller moves, because your opponent will have to worry about more. Just because it can't kill, doesn't make it nullified of use. Especially when you know you won't be able to edgehog them. Every option that is opened, is equal to your potential no matter what your standards are.

5. I agree to an extent. Underclass is just less priority. It doesn't mean it can't lead to a higherclass bait.

This is the music Bowser listens to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfnyOvuwI3w&feature=related

 

[Cassius.]

"Higherclass bait" like what? tell me please.

your opponent SDI's out of DSmash mid move and then you're ****ed.

You didn't explain question 4 enough. Why would you B reverse the fire, to provoke a short-hop off of the ledge or something? You really should just bait with something else. A lot of characters can DI into Bowser for some free damage if you keep fire up, and if you use it for a short burst you may not even get that much damage.

this is just coming from someone who never really uses fire but still does damn well so w/e you wanna do. makes me no difference lol.

I mean your question originally was why we "neglect" to do that, and idk why, we just do. And the B Reverse is definitely not lagless, Bowser still has the breathing animation regardless of what way you move/how you land.

 

[ccst]

R.O.B.'s trash, that is all.

Can you please give me a ratio of what you think?

 

[Flayl]

From what i've seen in the other boards you pretty much ignore any real discussion and post "that's not what I think" so why would you care?

I don't think there's a single Bowser that disagrees with it being -1 for Bowser.

I am looking for some answers to a few questions.

1. How do you escape Ness' PK Fire properly when unable to shield it?

2. Any use in Bowser's pivot grab?

3. Does Bowser's Side B have a supershield when used at the right time against another opponent's attack? There has been times my Side B cancelled theirs, and continued on with it's purpose.

4. Why do alot of Bowser mains neglect the idea to short hop, reverse B, next to an edge when somebody is recovering to avoid laggy start up?

5. Is down smash only good when you predict an awful roll dodge? The real damaging frame takes too much time as a regular attack.

6. Can more than one Bowser main answer these questions? I would like to hear different sides for a more beneficial understanding.

I am a proud Bowser main, not just another other character main looking for research.

1 . Quarter-circle SDI away from Ness (so if Ness is to your right you input Left, Top-Left, Left, Bottom-Left, Left, etc.) with your control stick and tap the C-Stick - has to be set to smash - once to the left, more than that and you'll probably buffer a FSmash.

2. Bowser's pivot grab is great for grabbing predictable pokes. This means stuff like Mario's BAir and people who have limited options out of a dash.

3. Limit already explained this.

4. Reversing Flamethrower doesn't bypass its slow startup. It would be done a lot more if it did.

5. Down smash can be used to dodge short hop aerials with limited vertical reach. You can DSmash a Pit that tries to SH FAir you. DSmash is a terrible move though, there's almost always better options.

6. I'm number 2, hope that satisfies you.

 

[Alien Vision]

@Limit

I apologize, I missed the ''Bowser's DSmash is SDI-able, so I wouldn't try that.

''. This part of the question is blatantly nullified. Thanks for clearing things up.

For question number four, whilst they are recovering. When you initiate this move, they have more to worry about on their end, not just your claw hops, and other edge guarding approaches. So depending on the opponent this can be useless, or be very useful in making them worry about what move you are going to use rather then just those other predictable movesets. I never said it was lagless when he stops using his fire, I said the start up which gives you enough time to catch your opponent off guard because they expect one of the more generic movesets from Bowser while recovering. Just like down special. It's very situational. People never expect it. It's like watching a scary movie for the first time that isn't predictable. Perhaps someday I could fight one of you guys, to see how developed my Bowser game really is. Right now, I guess I am equivalent to your average kid who thinks they can punch someone's head off in one hit. I have faught some incredible players on WiFi, aswell as 1v3's. I am sure this proves nothing, but I assure you these players weren't pushovers. Is there a way I can upload my replays without that card?

I like to grant respect to even the frivolous things in life.


@ Flayl

1. Thankyou. This made me proud.

2. I will train in this category for now on. Sounds like it makes my defense game even more irritating.

3. He did a fine job.

4. I see now. Maybe it still has lag, but that momentum shifting is erratic and catches people off guard, aswell as making them having to think faster. i.e Standing in one spot and initiating flamethrower is very obvious. Running in a weird pivot short hop then turning around with hell's flames sure can BBQ their unprepared edge game. Nobody expects it, you really never tried it have you? If you have, then I understand. If you haven't.. then why not see how useful it can be? Then get back to me with it.

5. I'm sure there are other options, since that is a very risky move.

6. and.. I am very thankful of that.

 

[Cassius.]

yeah...1vs3's don't mean anything...lol but nice job I guess.

Find someone to upload a match for you or go to a tournament or something.

Can you please give me a ratio of what you think?

45:55 R.O.B.'s favor. It's pretty unanimous among us. R.O.B.'s "camping", aka gyro/lasers don't really affect us at all. We can walk/ps through that ****. We can also take your gyro and keep it for as long as we please because we have klaw/upb. As in they're our main moves and possession of an item doesn't affect the usage of those moves. Theoretically we'd only need to get rid of the gyro when we need to kill, and at that point...well...yeah. I don't really find R.O.B. terribly difficult to grab also.

R.O.B. can gimp Bowser easily if he gets his stuff together, but R.O.B. altogether has a pretty hard time killing Bowser outside of that. Like Bowser, R.O.B. also has a blind spot below him, right? So yeah, we can just predict your landing/panic nair/whatever and get GR setups and things like that.

It's just that R.O.B.'s strong points are not as effective on Bowser imo. R.O.B.'s throw/keep-away game is amazing though with FTilt/DTilt though, so I'm not completely knocking him. It's just not that bad of a MU for Bowser at all.

You should ask Vex though, he's played Chibo a lot.

 

[Alien Vision]

Can anyone in the Bowser forums help me upload? If not, where do I exactly go to find somebody to help me out?

 

[ccst]

yeah...1vs3's don't mean anything...lol but nice job I guess.

Find someone to upload a match for you or go to a tournament or something.



45:55 R.O.B.'s favor. It's pretty unanimous among us. R.O.B.'s "camping", aka gyro/lasers don't really affect us at all. We can walk/ps through that ****. We can also take your gyro and keep it for as long as we please because we have klaw/upb. As in they're our main moves and possession of an item doesn't affect the usage of those moves. Theoretically we'd only need to get rid of the gyro when we need to kill, and at that point...well...yeah. I don't really find R.O.B. terribly difficult to grab also.

R.O.B. can gimp Bowser easily if he gets his stuff together, but R.O.B. altogether has a pretty hard time killing Bowser outside of that. Like Bowser, R.O.B. also has a blind spot below him, right? So yeah, we can just predict your landing/panic nair/whatever and get GR setups and things like that.

It's just that R.O.B.'s strong points are not as effective on Bowser imo. R.O.B.'s throw/keep-away game is amazing though with FTilt/DTilt though, so I'm not completely knocking him. It's just not that bad of a MU for Bowser at all.

You should ask Vex though, he's played Chibo a lot.

Thank you a lot, but I disagree with you on the ratio. =p
Bowser is easy to rack up damage on, and the gyro can somewhat "block" Bowser's ground approach. R.O.B. can't kill Bowser, but he can rack up damage or just gimp him (overrated, but it works). I would say all in all; R.O.B.'s favour 60:40. Could also be 55:45 R.O.B.'s favour, but I hope Vex responses to this. =)

 

[Cassius.]

We wouldn't be approaching from the ground anyway if your main keep-out game is based on f/d/tilt and gyros. we jump and klaw, bro. Not saying Bowser will be completely aerial this game, but don't expect 100% grounded. Gyro doesn't block anything, we can walk and PS and be fine until we get within FTilt range of you or whatever.

Explain to me how R.O.B. could even "rack up" damage on Bowser. He's no Samus/TL, you can't really barrage us with projectiles. It's not as easy as you make it seem, nor is it as bad as I make it seem. It is 55:45. R.O.B. has no huge/distinct advantage.

Also, if you disagree with it then what was the point of asking for our opinion? You basically took what I said with a grain of salt. I guess Flayl was right lmao. This doesn't need to be a debate. You asked the question, I answered and gave my reasoning. Just take it or leave it lol

 

[Flayl]

Thank you a lot, but I disagree with you on the ratio. =p
Bowser is easy to rack up damage on, and the gyro can somewhat "block" Bowser's ground approach. R.O.B. can't kill Bowser, but he can rack up damage or just gimp him (overrated, but it works). I would say all in all; R.O.B.'s favour 60:40. Could also be 55:45 R.O.B.'s favour, but I hope Vex responses to this. =)

From what i've seen in the other boards you pretty much ignore any real discussion and post "that's not what I think" so why would you care?

I don't think there's a single Bowser that disagrees with it being -1 for Bowser.

I nailed it. Get out.

 

[KingKong_ad]

With Vex Im probably the best in this match up. I played a lot holynightmare and he is also the only one who gives me trouble. At the apex I went (where the japanese went) I played chibo a couple of games and didnt have a lot of prob to beat him each time. As limit said, bowser doesnt have trouble past the projectiles, we just need to walk and jump. If the rob spaces well with ftilt and dtilt, bowser has to do a single breath of fire and fsmash to attack him. (need to mix up tough). After we can mix up with our side B to come in close range since rob has no choice to approach or camp in mid range. If rob go camp in the ledge, bowser has no prob either. Bowser has to be just away of the fair while rob on the ledge. Bowser has to be patient and waiting. If rob jump gyro or laser. Shield drop dash attack is usefull.

Yeah rob can gimp bowser. But if bowser keep his jump while beeing faired out of stage its ok. Sometimes bowser has to recover from above to avoid beeing gimp even if bowser will bepunished ( better getting punished then dair......)

The best part, rob can be killed offstage easily too.
If rob tries to recover from below, he is in trouble due to our uair, nair, usmash and utilt
If he tries to recover to the ledge, bowser has to wait rob using his upb, rob cannot airdodge while upbing if he doesnt do an aerial before. So as a bowser, u wait he does his upb and with our great aerial speed just go reach rob and fair him. The worst u can get is faired ou naired( but can see it coming so just reatreat) If the rob respond to ur approach just returned to the ledge with upb and since he will be mostly below u cuz he had to use an aerial u can try to attack him with a bair.

It doesnt work all the times, but bowser has the tool to pressure rob offstage and upb can sometimes get a gimp doing that.

There is a lot much in this match up but im too lazy as much of u know.....

Sorry for my terrible english

My ratio is 50/50 ( but eh im known to be generous with bowser even if I really think it)

 

[Cassius.]

So combined with what I said and what KK said, do you see why it's not worse than 45:55?

or do you still disagree ccst.

and lmao @ flayl, I always feel so bad because he's always right in the end.

 

[Alien Vision]

@Limit



Can anyone in the Bowser forums help me upload? If not, where do I exactly go to find somebody to help me out?

I don't even know how they can even upload it. Would appreciate an explanation.

 

[Scatz]

If you can get your replays on the internet (just the files), then I can upload for you.

 

[Flayl]

I can do it and I already have a channel dedicated to stuff like that (BowserReplays) so wait a bit and I'll PM you with the stuff you need (to do and give me)

 

[Alien Vision]

@ Scatz Don't have a SD card. I appreciate the thought.

@ Flayl This is very much appreciated. Thankyou.

 

[Alien Vision]

Sorry for double post.

How do you approach an Olimar? He is a tough cookie. I could kill their MK no problem, but this Olimar was another story. He knew how to space incredibly well.. Where is Olimar's weakspots?

 

[Cassius.]

inb4zigstahelps

 

[Alien Vision]

Why can't Bowser just smash his helmet to oblivion.

Olimar is more of an annoying character than a tough character now that I put some thought into it. Just like Pikachu, and Sonic.

Thanks for your wonderful help Limit. Lol.

 

[Cassius.]

Sonic is easy. Pikachu is meh.

I only said that because I don't have the amount of Olimar experience that Zigsta has, so I don't feel like saying anything that'll probably be wrong.

It'd be a waste of space. lol

 

[Alien Vision]

I know. I said they were annoying. There is a difference. Lol.

Just curious, think we could duel sometime? I could learn a thing or two when I see it in live action. IMO..

Plus, it would be fun. I am not an average player. I promise you that.

 

[Cassius.]

im not at home and won't be for a while, so im not in a position to play.

and i don't really use bowser online anyway

 

[Zigsta]

Jab more against Olimar. That's my best piece of advise.

Sorry for the short response--my arms are still healing, and texting for too long still hurts.

 

[Alien Vision]

Thats ok Limit. I'm just anxious to understand how real my Bowser game is really is, thats all. Lol.

I can't get close enough to a spacing Olimar Zig. Thankyou for replying, but if it's best, just answer my question later when your arms are healed. Get well soon. Nobody likes bull**** injuries that are like papercuts. So small, but really annoying. Like Olitard.

 

[Cassius.]

if you're that anxious, then go to a tournament or something...lol

but zigsta is right. Jabbing is the best thing you can do because the swipes come out quick and jab2 is good against olimar.

If the olimar is spacing grabs, then aerial klaw. that's what I'm assuming you mean by spacing, because getting through the aerials shouldn't be a problem...

 

[Alien Vision]

I have personal reasons as to why I can't go to any tournaments. Life never was fair to begin with.

His aerials can be troublesome if you don't know what you are doing. It's like being stupidly offensive with DK against MK.

I forgot to mention, and amusingly the most annoying character by far. Is Pit. I just can't stand him. Can you?

 

[Cassius.]

well I mean granted if you have any sense on how to handle aerials, then you should be fine. Why would be blindly offensive with Bowser in the first place? He's not the type of character for that.

 

[Alien Vision]

I was pertaining to my lack of knowledge on how to fight Olimar. So of course it will be like fighting blind. (I still don't know how to SDI properly. I have done it a couple times, but don't know how I did it. I'm thinking about setting up a match with a level 9 Pit. I could practice then. Still don't understand this quarter circle thing either. So maybe this is why I get caught up in Olimar's aerial attacks.. XD)

What happened to Flayl? Been a couple of days since I last saw him.

 

[Cassius.]

you can't really expect people to post every day of their lives...this is the Bowser boards. We all have a lot more important things to do lol

I just check my computer every day because my school is computer-oriented so if I ever have a free second I just go to SWF/AiB/Youtube