Bowser King
Have It Your Way
That's weird, did you press them at close to the same time?
lol, gecko moria is awesome :D
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Bowser King
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Koopa Questions: a Bowser Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Hobobloke
- Start date
lol, gecko moria is awesome :D
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Bowser King
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
I use it on the ground, but usually the first hit deals 4 damage and pops them out of reach. This is what I'm wondering, because I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I'd provide a vid but I'm not quite sure how, seeing as I don't have a camcorder or a computer that can read SD cards. >.>
Hobobloke
Atemon Game
I used to have that problem where I'd jump first then upb back when i first started playing, its just about the timing of when you press the buttons.
B!squick
Smash Master
Lol, I'm just taking my chances of it clanking now. Maybe I'll trying getting the timing down again, I could have swore I could do it before. :/
Oh, and I'll try to get some replays of me and whatnot since I actually found some people to play against. It's gonna be hard getting them to last 3 minutes though... stupid 3 minute limit. T_T
Oh, and I'll try to get some replays of me and whatnot since I actually found some people to play against. It's gonna be hard getting them to last 3 minutes though... stupid 3 minute limit. T_T
Hobobloke
Atemon Game
I should have replays next weekend they guys are bringing recording equipment to the tournament.
B!squick
Smash Master
Lol, I showed my friend how to infinite an Ivysaur... I still lost though. T_T
Kinzer
Mammy
It's not going to be likely I'll ever bump into a tourney-worthy Bowser but I'm curious.
I know (or rather heard) about Bowser's GR shenanigans, like how Jiggly gets Uaired out of an air-break.
What exactly can be done to Sonic on Air/Ground breaks?
I know (or rather heard) about Bowser's GR shenanigans, like how Jiggly gets Uaired out of an air-break.
What exactly can be done to Sonic on Air/Ground breaks?
B!squick
Smash Master
Let's check the sticky. It's been in need of an update, but I think most of it is still accurate.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193617
Jump:
Grab release chaingrab
Grab release dash attack
Grab release fair
Ground:
Grab release regrab
Grab release overb
Grab release downb
Grab release ftilt
Grab release jab
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193617
Jump:
Grab release chaingrab
Grab release dash attack
Grab release fair
Ground:
Grab release regrab
Grab release overb
Grab release downb
Grab release ftilt
Grab release jab
Kinzer
Mammy
Ouch, it's that bad?!
And let me guess, is this inescapable when done perfect (or not even that hard to accomplish...?) or can Sonic like try and jump/attack/spring before this stuff on an air break?
Is Sonic forced to air break or is it a ground-break? This would suck if Sonic actually did get legit infinited (although if it's on prediction then maybe there's some hope) from the air or the ground.
I thought it would be alright to ask here since as you mentioned the sticky hasn't been updated since December of O' Eight.
And let me guess, is this inescapable when done perfect (or not even that hard to accomplish...?) or can Sonic like try and jump/attack/spring before this stuff on an air break?
Is Sonic forced to air break or is it a ground-break? This would suck if Sonic actually did get legit infinited (although if it's on prediction then maybe there's some hope) from the air or the ground.
I thought it would be alright to ask here since as you mentioned the sticky hasn't been updated since December of O' Eight.
B!squick
Smash Master
Well, I'm not sure how breaks work exactly but from what I understand, breaking during a pummel forces a ground release. And I've gotten into a habit of holding L and mashing A if I can infinite X character. It's faster than mashing R for whatever reason. Otherwise, I think you need to hit Jump for a Jump release.
I'm not sure how up to date Sonic's info is, however. Next time I'm at my friend's place I can run some tests for you, what's Sonic's fastest option during an Air or Ground break?
I'm not sure how up to date Sonic's info is, however. Next time I'm at my friend's place I can run some tests for you, what's Sonic's fastest option during an Air or Ground break?
Kinzer
Mammy
I have a habit of spamming Spring Jump as a "GTFO" move. Whether it is his best or not is unknown to me, but it certainly gets the job done. If you want fastest actions from a ground release you're going to want Jab as it comes out on Frame 3, maybe a shield/spotdodge since Jab has pathedic range/is just a terrible move overall (I wonder if grounded Spring Jump would get the job done...). I believe this is where prediction might determine how things go if it's a ground-break.
If I have this straight both Bowser and Sonic can act on frame 30 should Sonic ground-break, meaning if Bowsers tries to do a grab Sonic needs to do something that gives him the frame advantage, which IIRC is only Jab/Shield/Spotdodge since Bowser's grab (or just any non-tethers' grab) takes 6 frames, right? This is only grab, I'm not sure if Bowser has anything faster than 6 frames but this is where your knowledge on your character comes in. I don't have the frame data of things like tilts/Spring down (although I', fairly certain that Spring Jump is fast) down but if you look around the board you'll find a couple of things. There might also be some additional misc info on the tactical boards like spotdodge/rolldodge data and all that jazz.
However if this is too much trouble you don't have to do it, I would appreciate it but I won't hold a grudge if you say no.
Also you're right on how Grab-releases work. Except that if a characters feet do not touch the ground, for example Jigglypuff, they are forced to air-break unless you get them into pummel hitstun. If their feet DO touch the ground then unless they initiated a jump or whatever they will always break loose to the ground.
If I have this straight both Bowser and Sonic can act on frame 30 should Sonic ground-break, meaning if Bowsers tries to do a grab Sonic needs to do something that gives him the frame advantage, which IIRC is only Jab/Shield/Spotdodge since Bowser's grab (or just any non-tethers' grab) takes 6 frames, right? This is only grab, I'm not sure if Bowser has anything faster than 6 frames but this is where your knowledge on your character comes in. I don't have the frame data of things like tilts/Spring down (although I', fairly certain that Spring Jump is fast) down but if you look around the board you'll find a couple of things. There might also be some additional misc info on the tactical boards like spotdodge/rolldodge data and all that jazz.
However if this is too much trouble you don't have to do it, I would appreciate it but I won't hold a grudge if you say no.
Also you're right on how Grab-releases work. Except that if a characters feet do not touch the ground, for example Jigglypuff, they are forced to air-break unless you get them into pummel hitstun. If their feet DO touch the ground then unless they initiated a jump or whatever they will always break loose to the ground.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
Bowser's Jab comes out at Frame 5.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Here's the thing though, Bowser doesn't regain control on frame 30. He regains it on frame 20.
That means he has a 10+ frame advantage from a ground release. (30+ from an air release) So if Bowser does it perfectly, Sonic can't escape his grab release followup.
Kinzer
Mammy
Ouch.
I didn't know Bowser was actually getting out of dead-lag at frame 20, I was thinking of breaking free from a grab-release.
So I really don't want to get ground-grab-released by Bowser huh? I know you mentioned that you get like lol 30 frame advantage from an air-release but then Sonic isn't next to you now is he?
I didn't know Bowser was actually getting out of dead-lag at frame 20, I was thinking of breaking free from a grab-release.
So I really don't want to get ground-grab-released by Bowser huh? I know you mentioned that you get like lol 30 frame advantage from an air-release but then Sonic isn't next to you now is he?
Hobobloke
Atemon Game
But if you airbreak thats a CG across the stage to a fair.
Which is way better than getting CG'ed on the ground. Distance covered really isn't comparable. The Sonic player should hold up when getting pummeled by Bowser.
BTW is there any way we can use that DI to our advantage in a throw? Probably not since Bowser's throws suck so much.
Liquid Gen
Smash Ace
If I remember correctly, If they DI upwards during an up throw, they're airborne longer, or something similar.
B!squick
Smash Master
Danm. Well, I can still run those tests just to be sure, though I don't know when I'll be at my friend's place next.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Air releasing is generally better to do against bowser with every character, also i dont think bowser can jump release chaingrab sonic, my thread needs a huge update, WHICH I PROMISE TO DO VERY SOON. I'm like so sorry, procrastination ***** everything.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
YAY! Vex has returned to the Bowser boards! Welcome back. ^_^
B!squick
Smash Master
*next tourny comes up* K, see u later gai's *plays DeDeDe*
Lol, I kid, we still love you Vex.
Lol, I kid, we still love you Vex.
Overclassed
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 246
"Koopa Questions: A Bowser Q&A Thread"
"Koopa questions a bowser Q&A Thread"
"Koopa questions a bowser: Q&A Thread"
Punctuation, wheeeee. :]
EDIT: LEGIT QUESTION
I love Bowser- I played him after I realized how little I like being in the air as Ness.
Is Bowser a gounded character? I know his F-air is great, and I know he has grab releases. I suppose I could dissect the Bowser intro thread an all that but I thought I would just ask. If I like stage control, dislike projectiles, dislike the air and like to hit hard, is Bowser a good character for me?
EDIT EDIT:
I wasn't being a jerk, I was having fun. :<
I like English .-. I thought it was cool how many ways you could read that.
"Koopa questions a bowser Q&A Thread"
"Koopa questions a bowser: Q&A Thread"
Punctuation, wheeeee. :]
EDIT: LEGIT QUESTION
I love Bowser- I played him after I realized how little I like being in the air as Ness.
Is Bowser a gounded character? I know his F-air is great, and I know he has grab releases. I suppose I could dissect the Bowser intro thread an all that but I thought I would just ask. If I like stage control, dislike projectiles, dislike the air and like to hit hard, is Bowser a good character for me?
EDIT EDIT:
I wasn't being a jerk, I was having fun. :<
I like English .-. I thought it was cool how many ways you could read that.
B!squick
Smash Master
Punctuation is for engrish scrubs.
Overclassed
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 246
B!squick
Smash Master
Lol, I know, I was just messin'.
Bowser is very grounded, yes. In fact:
Stage control? Yeah. Dislike projectiles? *sweeps Firebreath under a rug* He doesn't even have one, unless you're facing space animals. Dislike the air? So does Bowser. Like to hit hard? So does Bowser.
Yeah, I think you and Bowser would mesh quite well.
Bowser is very grounded, yes. In fact:
Stage control? Yeah. Dislike projectiles? *sweeps Firebreath under a rug* He doesn't even have one, unless you're facing space animals. Dislike the air? So does Bowser. Like to hit hard? So does Bowser.
Yeah, I think you and Bowser would mesh quite well.
Hobobloke
Atemon Game
Pfffft english who needs it, I'm never going to england.
Kinzer
Mammy
...Oh, so Sonic cannot be air-released regrabbed huh?
That's good to know, but it's not cool how we can get followed up and/or limited in our options for getting grabbed.
Bowser is more evil than I presumed to be, Hell what kind of a cheap, dirty groper is he when he even went out of his way to help Mario occasionally!?
That's good to know, but it's not cool how we can get followed up and/or limited in our options for getting grabbed.
Bowser is more evil than I presumed to be, Hell what kind of a cheap, dirty groper is he when he even went out of his way to help Mario occasionally!?
MrEh
Smash Hero
Sonic's vulnerability to grab releases isn't that bad, he's average. There are characters that suffer far more. And some that suffer much less.
Example, Zelda can't be hit with many things, while MK can be hit with almost everything.
It doesn't matter much though. Grab releases are useful, but they're not broken. If anything, Sonic shouldn't be getting grabbed that often anyway. ^^
B!squick
Smash Master
The odd stage floor makes auto cancelling and Klaw Cancel Jumping difficult. Also separating the stage could pose a bit of a problem since it has no grabbable ledges on the inside. It doesn't have a solid main floor, so it's possible to miss an auto snap to the ledge and multi jump charaters can annoy Bowser from below. The barrel things and the flesh pillar things that hold the stage together add to hitstun by alot, especially the barrels. The barrel things also greatly hinder Fortress movement.
It has a ceiling comparable to Battlefield though. The flesh things anchoring the side platforms help protect against projectiles when recovering. The acid means you'll generally live longer.
All in all, it could be worse. Though after Japes and Cruise, I can't think of a worse stage that you might see at a tourny.
It has a ceiling comparable to Battlefield though. The flesh things anchoring the side platforms help protect against projectiles when recovering. The acid means you'll generally live longer.
All in all, it could be worse. Though after Japes and Cruise, I can't think of a worse stage that you might see at a tourny.
I never have any trouble klaw hopping, and the only place you will get lag from doing a rising SHFAir is from the right edge of the stage. Seperating the stage has never really been a problem for me, common sense will avoid getting you spiked. Worst case scenario if you're on the right island just hang on the ledge. It's awesome when you land a bowsercide through the hole. Hadn't really thought about the floor, first point I can agree with. But the characters I would take to Brinstar aren't multijump characters anyway. Those I would take to Final Destination except for Pit. The barrels thing is just something you learn how to use/avoid. Extending the FSmash hitbox duration is hilarious.
Campers can't camp, acid forces opponents to get near Bowser's fortress, you can klaw hop around the stage easily, acid isn't that much of a deal for bowser, those are the main reasons why I CP this stage.
As for stages that are definitely worse for Bowser: Pirate Ship, Pictochat, Pokémon Stadium 2, and the 2 you mentioned.
Campers can't camp, acid forces opponents to get near Bowser's fortress, you can klaw hop around the stage easily, acid isn't that much of a deal for bowser, those are the main reasons why I CP this stage.
As for stages that are definitely worse for Bowser: Pirate Ship, Pictochat, Pokémon Stadium 2, and the 2 you mentioned.
B!squick
Smash Master
I said the stage made ACing and KCJ difficult, not impossible. I think you can agree that both are easier on more even ground.
I like Pirate Ship. No real reason, I just like it. :D Same with Pictochat. I have no love for PS2, though gliders can't fly under the stage at least.
I like Pirate Ship. No real reason, I just like it. :D Same with Pictochat. I have no love for PS2, though gliders can't fly under the stage at least.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Constant klaw hopping should have a new term, or atleast I'm using this term from now on, Like with jiggs bair's creating the WoP, klaw hopping should be refered to as WoK or Wall of Klaw 
B!squick
Smash Master
Lol, I changed it, but the new one isn't showing up.
EDIT: There it goes.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Tooooooooo good!
Lol, I changed it, but the new one isn't showing up.
EDIT: There it goes.
Liquid Gen
Smash Ace
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Yup, awesome, I already knew it acted sorta like a jab on a grounded opponent for a jab lock but good application for knocking them down into it.
Liquid Gen
Smash Ace
Yeah. I noticed it did as well like... Weeks ago, but I found it useless cause generic set ups (dthrow etc) did not work at all.
So I came up with that.
"Battlefield is Bowser's cage. Come in and get *****"
So I came up with that.
"Battlefield is Bowser's cage. Come in and get *****"
B!squick
Smash Master
Okay guys, to further roll with the new cooking theme, what do you think of the new picture for my tech thread? Also, what should I rename it?
SymphonicSage12
Smash Master
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
- Messages
- 3,299
Hey, I was just testing perfect Whirling Fortress out of shield a little bit...and I Think if you do it right, Bowser is invincible on frame 1. I set it on 1/4 speed to make it easier to use 2 controllers, and I did the perfect up b out of shield and ZSS's jab (comes out on frame 1) at the same time. Bowser's up b overrided zss's jab. I'm not sure, but I think a perfect WF OoS is invincible on frame 1.