Kong Kollege: Diddy Kong Tactical Discussion

[tripwire]

But you can ledge drop wall cling i thought. I really need to get my wii back.

Edit: I kinda also need to find my dazzle. I've been doing so much swag with Diddy.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

But you can ledge drop wall cling i thought. I really need to get my wii back.

Edit: I kinda also need to find my dazzle. I've been doing so much swag with Diddy.

I wanna see some swank diddy stuff from this man

 

[SpiderMad]

Here's a video for the past post of Re-catch Peanut stuff I talked about
http://youtu.be/q7ZXa4AIA7U

-One of the concepts is that instead of throwing the banana after the Peanut gun animation ends, you can throw it sooner with an AGT through the "AD Cancel" that was implemented into it to make you able to wave-land with it (the last throw at the end demonstrates it) .

-I would also like to mention that the last throw at the end can be super epic if you go out and hit the person with fair after the two other items hit, instead of retreating back onto the stage.


Also eventually I'm going to record this but: I think Fair has some weird properties, almost like a landing detection bug or something. Originally I was in slow-mo and did a Fair right after a SH and hit a Bowser and then you immediately stop going upward and instead start falling like a Ness DJC. I thought this was just a slow-mo problem but I think I did it in a normal game, and it does this when you hit someone or hit a shield.

 

[GuruKid]

A few of Diddy's aerials (namely Fair) suffer from SCD bugs. This is known.

 

[SpiderMad]

A few of Diddy's aerials (namely Fair) suffer from SCD bugs. This is known.

Oh good, another aerial bug thing to try and exploit lol. Which other aerials have this weird bug? I think It can be kind of useful since it's essentially a super quick fastfall/DJC. EDIT: Tested it non-slowmo and not much happened, like you said in the IRC Guru, the effect is only potent in slow-mo. EDIT2: I watched the replay I thought I saw demonstrated it in normal mode, and indeed it did: so I guess it's just hard to re-enact sometimes.

Did you guys take this out?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IVkEKxKwuc

Also, I don't even have to MENTION the crazy up-b bug with Diddy right? With any Up-b to the ledge that's not sweet spotted he grabs the edge for a few frames way above the actual ledge and then drops to normal ledge grab position: what specifically causes that?

Is Z-dropping a banana the fastest way to get out of a close quarters combo, then 2nd is bair/nair?

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Oh good, another aerial bug thing to try and exploit lol. Which other aerials have this weird bug? I think It can be kind of useful since it's essentially a super quick fastfall/DJC. EDIT: Tested it non-slowmo and not much happened, like you said in the IRC Guru, the effect is only potent in slow-mo. EDIT2: I watched the replay I thought I saw demonstrated it in normal mode, and indeed it did: so I guess it's just hard to re-enact sometimes.

Did you guys take this out?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IVkEKxKwuc

Also, I don't even have to MENTION the crazy up-b bug with Diddy right? With any Up-b to the ledge that's not sweet spotted he grabs the edge for a few frames way above the actual ledge and then drops to normal ledge grab position: what specifically causes that?

Is Z-dropping a banana the fastest way to get out of a close quarters combo, then 2nd is bair/nair?

Invincidropping is good too, but if you miss, your screwed

 

[SpiderMad]

can you z-drop while in tumble

 

[VirtualVoid]

TiL you can do dash > sh > peanut > waveland > catch peanut:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0TDpiz__00

Useless but funny, you can also throw it up after and since it falls so slow you can catch another one and juggle them...

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

can you z-drop while in tumble

No. This was a thing in brawl, but in PM I think hitting z in tumble will give an attack instead

 

[SpiderMad]

Diddy's up-air works great for hitting someone on a platform from you yourself dropping and immediately using it, possibly better/easier than Ike's depending on his frame data.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4Ka54zALY0 Demonstrated at beginning and 0:11

A banana near the very edge of a platform drops off when using the dash attack off edge thing over it. I haven't gotten this to work consistently though


Also here's a texture I made
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=30614


Here's a few playlists/videos of Diddy stuff, it's a good idea to check out the Diddy board in Brawl for tons of stuff that still apply.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8F2E08DC2D10BFA6
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2F0E17EE25F83164&feature=mh_lolz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd5VPusKIz0
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE9435B89F11CB20B

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Ah yes. Brawl diddy stuff.

I miss that guy.

So I lied. Z dropping in tumble is a thing. It's available as soon as Diddys hitstun ends.

 

[SpiderMad]

Since Peanut gun has a more powerful backwards blast than Brawl when you charge it some, you can use it to grab the ledge from a hefty distance away from just charging it facing backwards. You can also grab the ledge with Peanut gun air dodge backwards (common knowledge).

Diddy's fastest aerials are Nair and Up-air, both have their hits come out on frame 4 which is 1 frame later than Peach's Nair. I have trouble deciding which to use though to break out of certain combos. With Ike it was a tad more obvious since Bair came sooner than his Up-air but his Up-air lasted longer and covered a lot.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

I usually just spam uair out of habit from brawl.
Or mash up B.
Or I just run away from the beginning of the match and throw fruit

 

[SpiderMad]

I usually just spam uair out of habit from brawl.
Or mash up B.
Or I just run away from the beginning of the match and throw fruit

Wasn't Bair faster than Up-air in Brawl or something though? I see ADHD using bair for momentum cancelling after a hit, which would suggest it's the fastest.

Further analysis of Nair and Up-air reveals they were probably designed by Gurukid to cover what the other doesn't (given that he also made them the same timings). I don't know if he zoomed out or anything between the .gifs, I might re-check BBox tmr about it.

Also Gurukid didn't include landing lag for aerials in the frame data thread, I'll fetch them tomorrow and post'em if he's on a hiatus.

 

[Player-1]

Bair was diddys fastest aerial all together, uair's hitbox cames out on frame 3 in vBrawl it just had more cooldown

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

I up air 4 medanight

 

[GuruKid]

Landing Lag for Aerials (in frames):

Nair: 18 normal, 9 L-canceled
Fair: 22 normal, 11 L-canceled
Bair: 15 normal, 8 L-canceled
Uair: 18 normal, 9 L-canceled
Dair: 23 normal, 12 L-canceled

 

[SpiderMad]

Good now post all the damages for the hitboxes :grimah:

SH Down throw waveland banana re-catching is funner than dribbling

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Good now post all the damages for the hitboxes :grimah:

SH Down throw waveland banana re-catching is funner than dribbling

Do this back and forth.
Its so swank.


Man these boards died super quick.

 

[Attila the Hun]

Do this back and forth.
Its so swank.


Man these boards died super quick.

Tell that to the bigger Kong's boards. <3

EDIT:

IN ALL THREE GAMES.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Tell that to the bigger Kong's boards. <3

EDIT:

IN ALL THREE GAMES.

I mean, if no one else feels like posting, then maybe some tourney wins would boost the boards. Eh? Eh?

 

[SpiderMad]

Might make a Diddy random stuff tutorial video (I made one, but it was way too long and I sound gay when I'm talking in my "how to do stuff" voice)

I also watched a lot of C!Z and Bladewise's Diddy, nothing revolutionary caught my eye AT wise

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Might make a Diddy random stuff tutorial video (I made one, but it was way too long and I sound gay when I'm talking in my "how to do stuff" voice)

Lol.

What exactly will the video explain?

 

[SpiderMad]

stuff people probably already know, stuff I've already talked about, and stuff I haven't yet talked about or would be too hard to describe in writing:
-Basic what is an AGT information (Picking direction with Control stick, throw direction with C-stick)
-Basic Glide toss information/OOS options
-Basic AGT bananas off platforms
-Basic platforming/platforming aerials
-platform(edge) cancelling Side-b/Up-b
-Wavebouncing his specials
-Brawl differences? (You can't Z drop re-grab with an aerial to use an aerial while still having the banana but you can still banana pluck and then aerial, you can only pick up bananas with Dash attack if you press Z, the ability to dash attack off platforms, Up-b being more controllable and stuff but that's getting too basic)
-You can SH Peanut gun to AGT Banana (using the AD cancel), also can be used to edge guard (Reiteration)
-You can FH Peanut gun to AGT a Banana laying on a platform (for say Battlefield)
-The uses of having a CaptainFalcon like Up-air (It hits when you drop from a platform and use it immediately, you can use it right before you hit the ground to still hit) and Dair (disjointed enough to hit through platforms on big characters to set up for F-smash true combos n stuff) and Jab string (It was changed to be like his Gentlemen)
-Reiteration of SH Bair to Up-air/Nair
-Reiteration of catching your own peanuts

There's loads of stuff I want to still want to find out: like in Brawl how there was so many ways to pick the Bananas off of the ledge using Walljumps n stuff, the best follow-ups after Side-b smack when they are too high percent to reach with aerials (jumping and pulling a Naner and shooting peanuts is what I'm trying now), the best stages for him, best way to edge guard with bananas or specifically for certain characters, and just more ways to know and describe how to trip someone with bananas and what to do after it.

 

[DrinkingFood]

^btw you can AGT using just the control stick+a if your willing to practice a little longer. Not that it's necessary or even better that way, it's just more comfortable for some people. Might be the way I grip the controller, but hitting the right shoulder button with my middle finger (which I do for everything except l-cancelling) and the c-stick with my thumb puts a bit of strain on my hand.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

^btw you can AGT using just the control stick+a if your willing to practice a little longer. Not that it's necessary or even better that way, it's just more comfortable for some people. Might be the way I grip the controller, but hitting the right shoulder button with my middle finger (which I do for everything except l-cancelling) and the c-stick with my thumb puts a bit of strain on my hand.

LMAOOOO STRAIN ON YOUR HAND.

I literally laughed out loud when I read that.

 

[DrinkingFood]

i don't get it

 

[SpiderMad]

I don't get it either. For my Foobar program I made the play/pause Global hotkey be Right Windows Button+Numpad 3, so I would press them with thumb and pinkie, it was a little strain at first and Idk why I did it but I also played some guitar for the time so I felt like doing it since certain cords would require that kind of stetch and eventually I didn't think a thing of it. I stopped playing guitar though so now I set it to Right WinButton + Numpad 4 which is easier.

I just realized using L and R is a lot different in the aspect that if you use R your thumb still has to go about reaching different buttons while with L you keep your thumb in a small area just moving on the control stick: I'm glad I use L for everything.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

It's a gamecube controller guys. It's not a large papa johns pizza. Lol you must have small hands if using your middle finger and thumb at the same time strains you. Maybe you should play wii chuck. I hear that doesn't hurt da wittle kids.

 

[DrinkingFood]

It's the hand position (well, and moving the thumb to that position quickly from the face buttons) not the distance. Strain=/=stretch, l2read please.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

It's the hand position (well, and moving the thumb to that position quickly from the face buttons) not the distance. Strain=/=stretch, l2read please.

Lmaoooo than I take back my small hands comment and replace it with stop being a ***** and l2controller

 

[DrinkingFood]

Well actually I'm doing it the hard way, control stick only. For pros. I'm not the one who should l2controller
I demand everybody do it my way or you suck at smash

EDIT: Oh **** we're way off topic this isn't even a social thread
my bad

 

[SpiderMad]

I love the wifi air dodge for its comfort as well as speed

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Sheeeeeeeeet. These boards dead anyway, this might as well be the social

 

[SpiderMad]

I might be able to decipher and talk a bit about his moves if Guru posts damages for the hitboxes in his .gifs, otherwise you need to go into why you want someone to trip Disqo and talk specifics

Also SH Bair to Up-air/Nair is so awesome yet so impractical to perform

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

I might be able to decipher and talk a bit about his moves if Guru posts damages for the hitboxes in his .gifs, otherwise you need to go into why you want someone to trip Disqo and talk specifics

Also SH Bair to Up-air/Nair is so awesome yet so impractical to perform

Bair is kinda underrated right now. I've done bair to lcancel bair to side B consistently. Potential is there.

These boards don't need specifics, they need experience. Diddy won't get anywhere until we ourselves become seasoned with this character and how to play him at an optimal level. And I don't see more than 3 people dedicated to that happening.

 

[SpiderMad]

No, I believe you could seriously explain situations about what to do with the tripping/banana game; unlike only doing general talk that you did for your thread.

If not, once I figure out how his banana game really works I'll try and configure "banana set-up" images in the same style of this http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=332160 .
I'll have different images of bananas on platforms n stuff, and then arrows describing the directions they can go "One banana on the top platform of BF allows AGT'ing it forward/backward to hit specifically at the edge, while the side platforms would yield a tossed banana capable of hitting far out opponents like a Lucas using PKT. The side platforms also yield the potential to have the banana near and towards the edge giving the ability to AGT it downward with your momentum shifted forward/towards the edge to edge-guard characters directly under the ledge like a Falco using Up-b"

Like I said though that might come after I'm "seasoned" with what the crap works, other than that though I only got two other "tutorial" type things in my head so far regarding Diddy and other characters.
-I want to make that Diddy general tutorial video
-I want to make a Falco/Luigi move difference and analysis tutorial similar to the DK Auto-cancel one: but I describe how Range,Damage (Shield stun), and Autocancel/Animation length/L-cancel timings affect move decisions

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

When you explain stuff like this spidey, only seasoned diddy players will truly understand what youre talking about. Anybody can see that situation and think oh yeah bananas. But a diddy main, a experienced diddy thinker per say, will understand the situations and what to do and how to condition an opponent into them.

Think of diddy as a web diagram. Diddy is in the middle. There are a **** load of situations that can be branched out from diddy, ranging from defensive and offensive play, camping, baiting, platform usage, edge guarding, combo potential, and more. And that's just WITHOUT bananas. Bananas are a unique item to the whole entire game. They way you use them can determine whether you win or lose. And these kinds of realizations that I'm talking about only come from constantly thinking during the whole match, for the rest of your life. Diddy is a mentally taxing character.

You can explain diddy to someone with pictures and videos and junk, but imo, diddy players thrive the most from playing and experiencing what works and when it does.

 

[SpiderMad]

You can explain diddy to someone with pictures and videos and junk, but imo, diddy players thrive the most from playing and experiencing what works and when it does.

Of course experience is best, but tutorials mentioning specifics can mimic experience and push a player past road blocks or kick start/give a head start on parts of their game they wouldn't or couldn't develop by themselves. It's why we have threads for this, and not just an empty web page saying just experience everything.

Tutorials like the DK picture one can describe situations well enough for the commoner to pick up on concepts, it's just after he understands a few of the scenarios (the gist of what you're describing) he can make the final step of mix and matching as well as adding to his problem and solution or use and utility repertoire.

Learning/Teaching how to code is a difficult process that ends with the user having to solve their own problems with it: but it requires tutoring that both teaches you things you may not understand right way, as well as the different situations/examples of "when" you would use the function you're being taught. It's kick-starting you to BE the experienced person you wouldn't become without the help.



Let's look at the concepts I'm teaching through one of my "videos and junk" for Ike and how an inexperienced/mediocre player still gets the concepts into their head that they wouldn't have otherwise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5SEGAHiDz8 Back when I posted a few of these Ike videos on Smashmods I would also have an accompanying description of what's being shown and inferred (which I now put into the actual video description).

You first see that the 2nd Dair autocancels (ends) on the platform relatively soon after it's thrown out, as well as read that it "Autocancels fast"
You then see Dair to Up-air which doesn't hit anything(because the damage ratio was lowered, so he didn't fly up high enough): but you're told in text form that it leads to that 2nd aerial depending if he got hit/shield poked. Finally, you see Dair to Dair for when he was still in shield

Now you're able to infer as well as understand the other options from these examples that you can do any aerial that fits the situation after the DJ from the FH Dair (Whether it hit him or he's still in shield, where he got launched or DI'd to if it hit) or that since it autocancels/ends so early you could very well FFall and land and do something quick like a grab/jab.

The last part with the FH Fair to bair doesn't infer many options besides that obviously it works on shield (and might work at low percent/or if they CC) and can also be used when they end up in front of you from the hit (seen in a separate video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq6GO4qiavs )

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

I'm not saying these won't help or add to a players knowledge. Hell, I wish I could post and post and post about my opinions and what not. I'm just pointing out that diddy in depth isn't something I see being written out on paper for total knowledge. Which, I guess, is the same for almost every character. Just my two rupees.