Kojin's Sonic Tech Lab *taking another look at Speed's Sonic*

[JayBee]

I guess I'll try this out tonight,.

 

[JayBee]

sry for the double, but for now, lets work on trying to get matchups down more. I've noticed that this thread is becmoing somewhat disorganinzed, and though that is smoewhat my fault, Ima blame you too (lol) but seriously, Im going to focus atm on two things that I want to put here: I want to do a guide on running with Sonic, that's my biggest goal. It has already been said, and most sonics know it, but Im gonna be ignaorant with it in my game for a while and hopefully get a vid out. I need to get my own stuff to do this though.

Then I want to make a character list of things you can use against other characters via technique listings, for example:

Lucario-

If lucario is ______, then you can
A: because...
B: because... however....
C: then you can...

see what I mean? that means I'm gonna be looking at your vids too, sonic mains for help as well, not just mine, though I have a knack for making random things work.

I've said my piece. Im going to a freinds to train them in the ways of Sonic, then maybe I can get something down there. So see u guys tonight.

 

[aeghrur]

Soooo, you kind of want a match-up thread in here too? o.O dang, this is gonna be a LONG thread. :O Amazing one too.

 

[JayBee]

here are some fun FFA matches I had against two other players one day. watch and learn from it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPCi6RFBb2Y

weird recovery @ :57

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAnitQJ5oPY

sweet move @ 3:53

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EjTc1FUaiw

wtf moment at :29

discuss.or not. wont bother me any. There were more, but I chose these to put up first. I may put the others up later... or not...

 

[memphischains]

change your name.

premium lets you change that ****

ask an admin

 

[JayBee]

is it bothering you that much? really?

 

[SonicX580]

Yo guys, can you test a sliding/charged F-smash?
The Luigi boards found it and it's basically where you walk and F-smash but charge it with the Z-button. The slide isn't as long as a hyphen smash, but who knows, it could be very useful. I'm not sure if it works with sonic or not considering I don't have a gamecube controller to try this so um, yeah.

I tried this and it didn't work with Sonic I think it only works for Luigi.

 

[JayBee]

that's too bad, unfortunately i havent been playign due to work/third strike, so...

PS: I hereby change the name of boxcancelling to SpinCancelling. discuss, if you must.

 

[Greenstreet]

Luigi is the king of no traction, he is the only one who could do this to any noticable effect.

 

[JayBee]

How many of you actually use side-B invincibility frames?

I was practicing it more this weekend, tryign to use it agianst attacks, I had a great time. I was going through Ike F-Smashes and all that... I'm gonn awork on this more...

 

[JayBee]

Good thing you brought this up greeny mcgreen. I actually brought this up earlier today, and Tenki I'm quite sure has mentioned this quite a few times, but you're right, it should be in this thread.

Anyways, as Pheonix Dark pointed out, I use this mostly for pivot grabs, as Its much better than Sonic's pivot grab since it stops you in place, and it gives you that instant boost. Usually when you try to pivot grab with Sonic you just run past your opponents and end up totally whiffing it, with this, not so much. And its a great surprise tactic too.

However, I never thought of the applications of this in the ways you brought up, all of which seem viable. I especially like the Idea of the reveerse spinshot. Like if your opponent is trying to chase after you, then an all of a sudden you reverse spinshot and Bair them... too good.

As for the go vertical thing, we call it VSDJ(Vertical SDJ =P)

I had also mentioned in another thread how awesome it is to Reverse Aerial Rush ASCs. Seriously, its sooo much less predictable and harder to counter than just running up to your opponent jumping, and using ASC. This would let you run past them, and then very quickly SH ASC backwards. If you can get a reverse grab off of landing the ASC(Not exactly sure how this works...), then its awesome

-----------------------------------------------------------------

On another random note.... I was thinking about triple hit ASCs... I know it usually happens on larger heavier characters at low percentages... but I was wondering, what if there were a way to perhaps make it easier to land all 3 hits(maybe even more?) of ASC?

I came across this tiny clip, and started to wonder:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJS4D-7d9tc

I mean 38% in less than 2 seconds... thats pretty darn sweet.

So this is my reasoning:
ASC isn't automzaticaly multi-hit. It only becomes so by you continuing to hold forward as you progress through the air.
The reason why ASC isn't usually more than 2 hits is because Sonic usually has already gone past his opponent by the time he gets the chance to connect a third time. That clip above is an exception.

So what if you could somehow make it so that you slow the movement of the ASC through the air?
But you may say, you can slo it down depending on how much you hold forward, but if you don't hold forward, it wont be as powerful...
Yet for ASC to hit full power, all you have to do is hold forward the INSTANT as you are about to go through your opponent.
So if you could theoretically, quickly move the control stick back and forth, to speed up and slow down the ASCs momentum for each and every hit... you might get more reliable triplehit ASCs...

Things would basically go like this:
Hold forward>first hit>quickly push back to slow ASC down, then push forward againfor the second hit>rinse and repeat.

You are basically slowing down the ASC between hits, so you don't travel past your opponent so quickly...

So yea, this is all theory craft, but I think its worth a try. It seems like youd need extremely quick fingers to get it to work at full speed, but how about someone try it out at 1/4th speed to see if its even possible at all? If it can be done at 1/4x, then someone wth quick enough fingers could do it at full speed...

A possible flaw I was thinking of however, is that ASC scends your opponents upwards, so if you are slowing it down, your opponents might get sent up too much and escape the combo anyways. Another possible flaw is that Sonic's aerial acceleration is too poor to really make a difference at such short time intervals of hitting back and forth.

Anyone wanna try? I dunno if I'm going home this weekend =/

Edit:
Big flaw, ASC's power is determined by velocity not just wether you are holding forward I believe. So yea, no clue if this will work at all. But if it makes triple hit ASCs any more common, it's worth knowing.

Just posted this on my thread so say that this is someting I want people to look into, as I will. will post later.

 

[gamegeek27]

Is it just me or is Ganondorf one of the harder mtchups for sonic?

 

[Tenki]

Is it just me or is Ganondorf one of the harder mtchups for sonic?

It can be if there's a mixture of either of these:
- The Ganondorf player is good <-- semi rare
- The Sonic player sucks <-- very common


Put a good Ganondorf and a good Sonic against each other and I think it'd actually be more neutral than anything.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Is it just me or is Ganondorf one of the harder mtchups for sonic?

It's just you.

**** Tenki, this is like the 5th time you've beaten me to a post.

 

[Napilopez]

ganondorf is fun. I've played quite a few good Ganon's, or at least I think they're good, lol. Id call it very slightly in Sonic's favor. Just because his recovery is poop compared to yours.

Random note against Ganon: Don't chase his offstage if he is in distance to recover with SideB.... You will eat a ganoncide and die.

 

[Tenki]

Random note against Ganon: Don't chase his offstage if he is in distance to recover with SideB.... You will eat a ganoncide and die.

I'd do it.

`.`; If they're predictable enough to fall for the bait, it's a suicide / edgehog setup.

 

[thecatinthehat]

I'd do it.

`.`; If they're predictable enough to fall for the bait, it's a suicide / edgehog setup.

This. Ganon's side-b goes about as far as McCain's campaign.

 

[Napilopez]

I'd do it.

`.`; If they're predictable enough to fall for the bait, it's a suicide / edgehog setup.

This. Ganon's side-b goes about as far as McCain's campaign.

Let me clarify myself, don't go offstage and try to attack ganon if he is in SideB distance. I played like 20 friendlies against a great ganon this weekend which I mostly won, but i died too many times at like 10% for trying to go for the offstage KO/gimp when he was close enough to recover with SideB.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Let me clarify myself, don't go offstage and try to attack ganon if he is in SideB distance. I played like 20 friendlies against a great ganon this weekend which I mostly won, but i died too many times at like 10% for trying to go for the offstage KO/gimp when he was close enough to recover with SideB.

lol we understood your point.

Our point was that you should feint by making it appear that you're gonna go for the off stage gimp. Simple Air-dodge or spring after that. Then watch as he falls to his doom.

 

[JayBee]

This. Ganon's side-b goes about as far as McCain's campaign.

Boooooooooo. boo to you sir. minus 10 steak.

 

[JayBee]

has anyone tried this?

Have you ever tried to SDVJ out of an Up Throw?

It seems that if you SDVJ at the first possible frames after tbe Up throw at low percents, you can string the SDVJ, because it counts as an attack. I slide my control stick up immediately after side B , let the SDVJ hit, then shift into Bair right after. I tried this in training mode today for about an hour. counting the throw it registed as a 4 hit combo with a total of 32% damage unstaled if i remember correctly.

TO see how far i thought I could take it, I baired, fallign baired, and SH baired until off the stgae, setting up edgegaurding and possible gimping. Of course, i didn't play a human opponent, so this is suspect. but, i felt that the following combo was safe and very possible:

At low%: Dtilt>grab>Upthrow>SDVJ(hit)>Bair>Spring

The spring was done to prevent Counter attack possiblities. Then sometimes the spring would hit too. but its mostly to protect myself and dair back to the stage to continue aggression. Against those who are good at dodging, I'd mindgame it by holding the SideB on the ground a slight bit longer before SDVJ'ing

What do you think? I'd really like for u guys to try it in practice and against human players especially.


Also, Since i now have enough vids to at least start, Ima go ahead and make my "combo" video. I want some more match vids before I finish, but I've already started making the vid in Adobe Premire. so, yeah, be on the lookout for that.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i guess you did learn somethign from that japanese guy didnt you?

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Ganon's side b offstage is silly. I just B-air him in the face when he tries it.

 

[JayBee]

i guess you did learn somethign from that japanese guy didnt you?

LOL i guess u knew as soon as u saw it. yeah. I've been trying to put my own twist to his style and add it too my own...

 

[Tenki]

VSDJ out of up throw

I've tried it before. The only problem is if they DI away from you D:

looking back at it, I guess that's really the only problem about doing VSDJ lol.

 

[JayBee]

I thought of that. but Sonics adapt, so i'd probably think of something to switch it up, or pretend that I'm going for it, WHEN IM NOT.

L2P, right?


In any case, I'll probably test it againstmy friends this weekend or next week. then I'll tell you what I saw, and how I adapted.

 

[infomon]

Waaah, I've been raving about Up-throw > VSDJ > Bair for almost two weeks

It's awesome.

 

[The_Dyne]

OMG, I've been trying to think of a use for VSDJ for a while now. I love you

 

[Jim Morrison]

Infzy, work on it more, yours sucks atm o.O

 

[infomon]

That's very true. Also, I suck atm...
Also, recording vids...

 

[Jim Morrison]

Infz, if you feel like it, wanna play again?

 

[JayBee]

I actually feel like playing online tonight too.

540-735-6124 if anyone wants Sonic training. I'm just gonna be practing Sonic mostly. mostly.
*random metaknight appears!* "Fight me!"
*Kojin gives him 'da byrd'*

 

[~TBS~]

the connection should be great where i am JayBee, when you feel like playing? And is whats with the phone number?

 

[JayBee]

probably later tonight, like 9ish. and that number was the way to contact me for tonigt. but u dont have to use it...

 

[infomon]

Infz, if you feel like it, wanna play again?

Sorry, I think I'm just giving up on WiFi. At least until I can get mine working better; playing against people in my area has intolerable lag. It just messes up my game way too much.

 

[~TBS~]

crap...its a good movie coming on at nine tonight, and i really want to watch it...shoot. you cant cut it any earlier Jaybee?

 

[aeghrur]

Eh? Eh? Phone number? Lol, I might contact you via that, that'd be so cool, lol.
But I'm not sure about the connection if I play you. :O

 

[ElemMasterZeph92]

sonicmaster5 is talking about the naruto movie i think

 

[JayBee]

We'll see when that happens. with connections later. It can't be as bad as Tenki's. I'll be up all night most likely, so you go watch that movie.

 

[~TBS~]

okay, i will PM you when ready.