Guide Knitting a Yoshi Chart - MU Portal

[noft]

Yoshi boards! I have deeply considered Yoshi as a main. He is loads of fun to play and I am tired of being knocked out of brackets by Fox mains playing ROB. I respect the armor he has with some of his moves. Any advice for a week one Yoshi? Thank you.

@ YoHeKing
lol. anyways, i would suggest playing with him until u feel comfortable enough to bop blop blap peeps. i used classic, and or my casual buddies to start off. then i moved on to playing people on stream and tournament, id focus on basics before techs, bcuz his movement is the most important part about his play, i wouldnt expect to much out of him though, it depends on how
much work u put in.

 

[YoHeKing]

@ YoHeKing
lol. anyways, i would suggest playing with him until u feel comfortable enough to bop blop blap peeps. i used classic, and or my casual buddies to start off. then i moved on to playing people on stream and tournament, id focus on basics before techs, bcuz his movement is the most important part about his play, i wouldnt expect to much out of him though, it depends on how
much work u put in.

Wait did yoy tag me because I practice non stop xD

 

[noft]

Wait did yoy tag me because I practice non stop xD

oh the guy was askingfor tips so i tagged u lol, and then i went on explaining my two bit knowing that ud tag in since i tagged u lmao

 

[YoHeKing]

oh the guy was askingfor tips so i tagged u lol, and then i went on explaining my two bit knowing that ud tag in since i tagged u lmao

Well you basically said it all.

Its normal getting rektd with yoshi at first pretty much. Just play a ton of FG with him for starters and leave everygame you win or loose after. Once you start getting good at spacing so you don't miss on accident you could probably work on your playstyle and techs. B reversals, out of shield options, yoshi bomb to ledge, jc up smash and up b, and jab setups.

Then comes the MU knowledge. Its kinda funny people who play yoshi from day 1 still need alot of MU experience. Its pretty normal to get rektd by swordfighters, sheiks, and diddys as alot of yoshi mains hate that MU (I love them btw).

Also keep in mind if your getting shield grabed, getting punished for spamming nair, getting punished for grabs and rolls, and useing yoshi bomb above the stage your probably playing him wrong. You shouldn't be getting punished without a good trade.
@MasterSeth1
SHAD is Bad.

 

[noft]

Well you basically said it all.

Its normal getting rektd with yoshi at first pretty much. Just play a ton of FG with him for starters and leave everygame you win or loose after. Once you start getting good at spacing so you don't miss on accident you could probably work on your playstyle and techs. B reversals, out of shield options, yoshi bomb to ledge, jc up smash and up b, and jab setups.

Then comes the MU knowledge. Its kinda funny people who play yoshi from day 1 still need alot of MU experience. Its pretty normal to get rektd by swordfighters, sheiks, and diddys as alot of yoshi mains hate that MU (I love them btw).

Also keep in mind if your getting shield grabed, getting punished for spamming nair, getting punished for grabs and rolls, and useing yoshi bomb above the stage your probably playing him wrong. You shouldn't be getting punished without a good trade.
@MasterSeth1
SHAD is Bad.

shad is only bad without some type of thought process behind it, its just another option to me. i use it in conjunction with the 117 different options that yoshi has lmao. i takes alot of adaption to play this little charmander wanabe

 

[miniada]

what a... unusual opinion you have.

btw, I'd say I disagree with 80% of this, but since it would take years for me to explain everything, I'll just post the MU chart that represents my opinion:

-2:
-1:
0:
+1:
+2:
+3:

Pretty good chart however I would like to now how is. even and how he beats

 

[Lukingordex]

This is old lol, I have a different opinion in most MUs now

 

[YoHeKing]

Same. I don't there theres a - MU at all. I use to think that back then but experience and studying options got me far in those MUs. Theres so many un used tools that need to be used in MUs and its ridiculous.

Seems like everyones point of veiw on MUs is diffrent here though which is pretty cool.

 

[miniada]

This is old lol, I have a different opinion in most MUs now

you mind telling me why most people thought those opinions back then?

 

[noft]

Same. I don't there theres a - MU at all. I use to think that back then but experience and studying options got me far in those MUs. Theres so many un used tools that need to be used in MUs and its ridiculous.

Seems like everyones point of veiw on MUs is diffrent here though which is pretty cool.

we dont get to play eachother enough, i am sure there are things to be learned from everyone, ive learned a hell of alot of yoshi things and play style options from @muddykips @ YoHeKing i would like to play u more but ive learned good approach games watching u bop scrubs on my stream lmao, still cant believe u beat muddykips, i beat u but i still havent taken a single match off muddykips :,c haha

 

[YoHeKing]

we dont get to play eachother enough, i am sure there are things to be learned from everyone, ive learned a hell of alot of yoshi things and play style options from @muddykips @ YoHeKing i would like to play u more but ive learned good approach games watching u bop scrubs on my stream lmao, still cant believe u beat muddykips, i beat u but i still havent taken a single match off muddykips :,c haha

Last few weeks Ive been practicing perfect frame pivots none stop and can now consistently do it. Now im working on perfect crouching pivots which is 5x harder thr perfect frame pivots. Foxs wave shine dosnt even give me as much hand cramps as this thing and in fact I cant even do it higher then 3/10 times.

I truly think yoshi benefits a ton from perfect pivots.
And also I can't believe I beat mudykips in a ditto either. Too good to be true . He will probably get me next time though haha.

 

[Joaco]

Sup guys, the Sheik boards had opened up a matchup discussion thread for Yoshi. If you guys could provide any input we'd appreciate it for sure.
Link: http://smashboards.com/threads/sheiks-new-matchup-discussion-thread-yoshi.416852/

 

[YoHeKing]

I don't think ill enter. All I will here is "sheiks frame data beats yoshi so its uneven. Sheik can camp yoshi out so its uneven." most likely.

Edit:ill think about it though

 

[Delta-cod]

I don't think ill enter. All I will here is "sheiks frame data beats yoshi so its uneven. Sheik can camp yoshi out so its uneven." most likely.

Edit:ill think about it though

This is mostly true, though (imo).

I think your best bet, if you planned on participating, would be to write a long, detailed guide / post on why you think the MU is the way you do, since you've probably got the most radical opinion on it among us (and them, I'd guess). Trying to do a bunch of shorter posts about various points would end up just getting lost to easier counterpoints, but if you can paint a strong picture of the MU in your view it might hold more weight.

 

[noft]

Last few weeks Ive been practicing perfect frame pivots none stop and can now consistently do it. Now im working on perfect crouching pivots which is 5x harder thr perfect frame pivots. Foxs wave shine dosnt even give me as much hand cramps as this thing and in fact I cant even do it higher then 3/10 times.

I truly think yoshi benefits a ton from perfect pivots.
And also I can't believe I beat mudykips in a ditto either. Too good to be true . He will probably get me next time though haha.

we need to skype so we can share these tech knowledges, ets is perfect set to z trigger, test it out i promise u, egg throws couldnt have gotten any easierr with this setting, either click the tip of the z or full press , sooooo much better then r trigger or b, on a game cube controller atleast added side noteb reverse is 10x easier with this as well due to low thresh hold, less to time and i feel like it has the right delay to make the b reverse easy. ive also got the foxtrot dash dancing down with yoshi pretty well looking for away to apply it

 

[YoHeKing]

This is mostly true, though (imo).

I think your best bet, if you planned on participating, would be to write a long, detailed guide / post on why you think the MU is the way you do, since you've probably got the most radical opinion on it among us (and them, I'd guess). Trying to do a bunch of shorter posts about various points would end up just getting lost to easier counterpoints, but if you can paint a strong picture of the MU in your view it might hold more weight.

Yeah lately Ive been doing that and trying my hardest to look deep in the MU. Theres a lot of myths there right now like "yoshis down throw up air is his only kill setup" lol

 

[Wintermelon43]

I just want to know what Yoshi's worst matchups are, since all my main and secondaries have a disadvantage aganist him.

 

[Delta-cod]

I just want to know what Yoshi's worst matchups are, since all my main and secondaries have a disadvantage aganist him.

Merged with our MU Hub.

I'd say Sheik is our worst. I've been hearing Diddy is rough for us too, due to just how hard it is for us to kill him.

Other than that I can't think of any really strong picks. ZSS/Fox are decent because of their speed and combos, I suppose.

 

[YoHeKing]

Depends on the yoshi. I truely think Yoshi is a good(an even MU) pick for sheik and diddy. Diddy has such a harder time killing us then we have against him. All you need to do is get in. Ill never understand how there a bad MU though anyways. I only know one sheik(online)and no diddys ive lost to and I still need to rematch. And Ive played good sheiks offline (if a sheik almost beating pre patch diddy m2k counts).

But seriously besides that, sheik and diddy is a good choice anyways. Marth lucina ike and Mario are also good. Lots of Yoshis don't play the MU the best they could which is why I think its a good choice. Also I guess sheik is our most difficult MU. Not anyone else I think we have to learn as much and try as hard.

But yoshi can pretty much lose to anyone anyways. You might just need to shield more and not use oos punishes unless Yoshis spacing is off. Run under Yoshi and counter pick to dreamland BF and lylat last.


I just said sheik is a good choice for yoshi and yoshi is a good choice for sheik... ugh I need to get better at explaining lol

 

[James Mesa]

Is there a fairly recent MU chart for Yoshi vs the cast based on discussions? The ones I often see are from a while back. Also what do you guys think of the Bowser Jr. MU? I feel that we win slightly and might be 6-4 our favor.

 

[Lukingordex]

I think this set shows why we win this MU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGax3KSrrbA

Basically, Yoshi doesn't care for mechakoopas (they're easy to catch with SH air dodge), doesn't care for cannonballs, outspeeds bowser jr and destroys him when he's above.

 

[Delta-cod]

Is there a fairly recent MU chart for Yoshi vs the cast based on discussions? The ones I often see are from a while back. Also what do you guys think of the Bowser Jr. MU? I feel that we win slightly and might be 6-4 our favor.

Regarding the MU chart, we don't really have one and don't really have a plan to do so. I don't think they're particularly useful anyways, and that focusing on discussion is much more important.

 

[Sinister Slush]

We could technically have one, just I'm lazy and don't think discussion would happen for our boards or even help from other boards.
The game isn't dying anytime soon, we have years to talk about stuff, it's also hard to talk about certain matchups due to patches changing stuff and all that.

 

[James Mesa]

Ok. Well do you guys have a discussion for the Rob and Bowser Jr MUs? They give me serious trouble in bracket.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Go to the first post.
I have links for either our own threads for maybe some characters people looking for or search the enemy boards for it instead.

 

[James Mesa]

Thank you.

 

[HawkBlade]

Hey, I wanted to know more about Yoshi's matchup with Mario. Every time I'm at a high percent, the Mario is able to kill me with his fast, low lag smash attacks such as his up smash which are really difficult for me to punish. When he's at high percentages it's really difficult for me to finish him off because if I whiff a smash attack, he can punish me with his low risk up smash or even down smash/side smash. Any tips?

 

[Lukingordex]

My advice against Mario in general is to avoid using eggs often and take advantage of Yoshi's superior mobility to bait his approach and powershield his fireballs. Don't change this mindset at high percents, the opportunity to kill him is going to come sometime. You shoudn't try to risk a smash attack out of nowhere, you're giving him the opportunity he wants to take the stock.

 

[HawkBlade]

My advice against Mario in general is to avoid using eggs often and take advantage of Yoshi's superior mobility to bait his approach and powershield his fireballs. Don't change this mindset at high percents, the opportunity to kill him is going to come sometime. You shoudn't try to risk a smash attack out of nowhere, you're giving him the opportunity he wants to take the stock.

But in limiting Yoshi's smash attack usage and egg usage, are there any optimal tactics to bait out moves that yoshi can punish? I feel like even punishing with Yoshi is hard in this matchup. For example, I find that landing a forward smash is fairly difficult. Mario, on the other hand, can just spam his smash attacks, most notably up smash, and they are nearly impossible to punish. I find the matchup very difficult as its hard to finish off a Mario's stock ;-;

 

[Delta-cod]

You might be looking for hard punishes when all that we can really get against Mario are soft ones.

If he's spamming Usmash, you don't look to punish with a kill move unless he's doing it in dumb situations out of range where you can just walk up and Fsmash him in response. You take your incremental advantages until he eventually dies.

Mario whiffed a Smash at high percent? Dash grab him and throw him off stage! Then try to kill him with Nair/Bair/Uair/Fair as an edge guard!

Yoshi has no easy kill setups, so killing IS hard. The key is not to fish for the kills. You gotta be patient, create your openings for kill setups, and win through attrition. It's not always easy to do this.

You CAN go for hard reads/punishes, but only do so in favorable situations. For example, Mario is trying to land or something without a jump. THEN you can try to space an Fsmash or catch him with Usmash, etc. If you miss, the punishment you receive will be light. These are the ways you get early kills, not by forcing it, but by taking your soft punishes and using them to setup harder ones.

 

[HawkBlade]

You might be looking for hard punishes when all that we can really get against Mario are soft ones.

If he's spamming Usmash, you don't look to punish with a kill move unless he's doing it in dumb situations out of range where you can just walk up and Fsmash him in response. You take your incremental advantages until he eventually dies.

Mario whiffed a Smash at high percent? Dash grab him and throw him off stage! Then try to kill him with Nair/Bair/Uair/Fair as an edge guard!

Yoshi has no easy kill setups, so killing IS hard. The key is not to fish for the kills. You gotta be patient, create your openings for kill setups, and win through attrition. It's not always easy to do this.

You CAN go for hard reads/punishes, but only do so in favorable situations. For example, Mario is trying to land or something without a jump. THEN you can try to space an Fsmash or catch him with Usmash, etc. If you miss, the punishment you receive will be light. These are the ways you get early kills, not by forcing it, but by taking your soft punishes and using them to setup harder ones.

Thank you for the very insightful response! Grabbing after an up smash can be difficult because Mario can spot dodge very quickly after an upsmash :/ Also, although this may seem slightly off topic, I play this Mario on the 3DS online as he's on my friends list. My question is, how significant is the lag online even if you can't necessarily see the lag? It may be a mental thing, but I feel like I can perform better locally than online

 

[Delta-cod]

Thank you for the very insightful response! Grabbing after an up smash can be difficult because Mario can spot dodge very quickly after an upsmash :/ Also, although this may seem slightly off topic, I play this Mario on the 3DS online as he's on my friends list. My question is, how significant is the lag online even if you can't necessarily see the lag? It may be a mental thing, but I feel like I can perform better locally than online

I think grabbing an Usmash is pretty simple in ideal conditions, but in all likelihood the Mario is probably fishing when you're in slightly unfavorable positions and thus can't get a punish (i.e. you're landing). Try going for SHET as a punish, we get good follow ups off of Egg Tosses if we know they'll hit.

Even if there is no stuttering due to the lag, there will always be a few frames of delay. This can affect your more precise inputs. You're definitely not imagining anything.

On the flipside, you should be aware of this and not use it as the end all be all excuse for why you're losing, etc. With a good connection, there are surely many aspects of your game you could fix before the only cause for your loss being input delay.

 

[HawkBlade]

I think grabbing an Usmash is pretty simple in ideal conditions, but in all likelihood the Mario is probably fishing when you're in slightly unfavorable positions and thus can't get a punish (i.e. you're landing). Try going for SHET as a punish, we get good follow ups off of Egg Tosses if we know they'll hit.

Even if there is no stuttering due to the lag, there will always be a few frames of delay. This can affect your more precise inputs. You're definitely not imagining anything.

On the flipside, you should be aware of this and not use it as the end all be all excuse for why you're losing, etc. With a good connection, there are surely many aspects of your game you could fix before the only cause for your loss being input delay.

Yeah, I didn't want to make the impression that I was blaming the lag; I definitively realize that I can improve aspects of my game that often result in my losses, although lag doesn't help, haha. And I think you make a very valid point in saying that I'm unable to punish his up smash because of unfavorable conditions. Often, I'm too far away to properly punish, at least with a hard hitting move. In that case, SHET seems to be a very viable option that I will definitely explore. Another problem that I've encountered with Mario is the spam of his smash attacks. I guess that if he keeps rolling towards me and spamming smash attacks, I should be a little more defensive and throw more eggs? Shielding his smash attacks I feel like isn't great because it pushes me away from a punishable range, thereby resetting the situation.

 

[Delta-cod]

Yeah, I didn't want to make the impression that I was blaming the lag; I definitively realize that I can improve aspects of my game that often result in my losses, although lag doesn't help, haha. And I think you make a very valid point in saying that I'm unable to punish his up smash because of unfavorable conditions. Often, I'm too far away to properly punish, at least with a hard hitting move. In that case, SHET seems to be a very viable option that I will definitely explore. Another problem that I've encountered with Mario is the spam of his smash attacks. I guess that if he keeps rolling towards me and spamming smash attacks, I should be a little more defensive and throw more eggs? Shielding his smash attacks I feel like isn't great because it pushes me away from a punishable range, thereby resetting the situation.

I didn't mean to imply you were blaming lag, just that in general you (and anyone else) should be looking to other things before lag.

If he's rolling all the time you have MUCH better options than just staying defensive. Learn some hard punishes on rolls. Dair, Dsmash, Down B, Fsmash, are all things you can use to punish someone who you KNOW is roll spamming. No need to be extra defensive. When you've found the pattern and flaw in your opponent's game play, ABUSE IT, force them to confront their problems. If they can't, they'll crumble under you. If they can, then you have to adapt to their adaptation. Until they adapt though, punish their habits HARD.

 

[HawkBlade]

I didn't mean to imply you were blaming lag, just that in general you (and anyone else) should be looking to other things before lag.

If he's rolling all the time you have MUCH better options than just staying defensive. Learn some hard punishes on rolls. Dair, Dsmash, Down B, Fsmash, are all things you can use to punish someone who you KNOW is roll spamming. No need to be extra defensive. When you've found the pattern and flaw in your opponent's game play, ABUSE IT, force them to confront their problems. If they can't, they'll crumble under you. If they can, then you have to adapt to their adaptation. Until they adapt though, punish their habits HARD.

Yes, I completely agree. I will try to apply these tactics next time I play with the Mario; I greatly appreciate the help!

 

[Nikes]

Need quick advice and apologies if these questions have already been asked in another thread, but:

What do you guys do against Diddy when he has a banana in hand? Shielding the banana gets you grabbed, not shielding gets you smashed, and jumping loses you stage control and gives him a positional advantage. I try running at him sometimes to force an option from him but if you airdodge to catch the banana he can just Fair you. x_x Sometimes I ETS backwards and away from him but I'd like to have more options.

Also, what are the best stages to go against Sheik and what are the best ones to avoid? Lost another Grand Finals set to a Sheik and I haven't played the MU enough, and I've got another tournament on tomorrow. I went to punish her so many times on reads I knew I had but her moves come out fast enough to punish your own attempt at punishing.

 

[Lukingordex]

Against Diddy I switch to Ness :v

What i've been feeling lately in the Sheik MU is that it isn't much affected by stages. I usually avoid FD because of needles and BF because of her sweetspoted Usmash at the platforms, other than that I don't feel confortable or uncorfotable on any stage against her.

 

[Nikes]

Unfortunately switching isn't an option for me since I'm a character loyalist, but the stage information is still helpful, so thanks

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

Is there any non top tier that beats Yoshi? I main Megaman and secondary Kirby, which beats Yoshi?

 

[Lukingordex]

Is there any non top tier that beats Yoshi? I main Megaman and secondary Kirby, which beats Yoshi?

Yoshi is one of Kirby's worst MUs

As for Megaman he also loses the Matchup but it's not unwinnable.

I don't think there are many "non top tier" characters that beat Yoshi, some Yoshi mains think the marth/Lucina/Roy MU is bad but I personally don't agree with that. However, there are many characters that goes even against him.