Kirby series = OVERUSED in Brawl

[day-day]

*FACEPALM*

Just because Sega isn't selling consoles anymore doesn't mean they don't own Sonic.

True that. Sure most of his games may be crappy now a days to some. But they still make a pretty good amount of money. They ought to anyway with as many as they've released, especially last year lol

 

[superyoshi888]

i hate sakurai with a passion for what he did to brawl, and i feel like the over-kirbying of the series is described perfectly here^^^; favoring HIS stupid beanie baby characters at the expense of important flagship characters

regardless of how bad sakurai sucks at his own game, a six-year-old with down syndrome could play every character for 10 minutes and have a good idea of which characters are good or bad. despicable.

mk and ddd are amazing, and mario, link, samus etc are terrible. mario and link are bad, but i think what sakurai did to Samus is especially shameful. i guess he though it would be a good idea to make her huge, slow and incredibly weak? imo shes the worst character, i find her unplayable on any level thanks to Sak.

btw i know this is a bit nitpicky, but does he have to put the kirby series right in the middle of the Character select screen EVERYTIME?!?!

Where to start with this post....

1. The Kirby games are among Nintendo's best games. Calling them beanie baby characters, no matter how true that may be, shows you dislike Kirby for the sole reason of him being cute. Go pick up K64 on the Virtual Console or SSU on the DS.

2. Alright, this is perhaps the most important part of this post here: Masahiro Sakurai had no control over which characters are good or bad. That's right folks, that part is left up to the game's designers. The only things the director himself had control of were who got in the game(aka he probably decided to axe Mewtwo) and the story mode, which admittedly is very Kirby-like.

However, and this is important to note, this was most likely the last chance he got to do anything with his baby. Since I doubt he would be able to make a Kirby game anymore(Sakurai left HAL after issues over the development of Kirby Airide), this was his last chance to make a Kirby game....just one that starred Nintendo's flagship franchises. And that ONLY applies to the story mode.

3. Just wondering out loud, but aren't the CSS done by a certain order? Like Smash veterans, their series' fighters under the main character, and then the Melee and Brawl peeps? I'm not sure. Kirby just happened to be in the middle is my point.


And the comment someone had about the music....well, Kirby had probably just as many songs as Pokemon or Mario, just that he only had two stages to stick them on compared to the other's three or four or five stages that they had. And personally, not all of them were great, but I'll agree the majority were. However, that kinda has been applied since the first game. I always found Kirby's music in the Smash games to be better than the other series.

 

[bleyva]

Where to start with this post....

1. The Kirby games are among Nintendo's best games. Calling them beanie baby characters, no matter how true that may be, shows you dislike Kirby for the sole reason of him being cute.

Masahiro Sakurai had no control over which characters are good or bad..

about the first part......uhh, all i was doing was insulting it a bit when discussing the franchise in the context of smash bros. i dont dislike the franchise, i played kirby's dreamland when i was like 4 and never thought too much of it.

about the second part.....i heard that sakurai himself stated in several interviews that he PERSONALLY balanced the cast.

and even if programmers had the majority of the control, for you to think sakurai had no part in making MK what he is, youre kidding yourself.

 

[BG3]

Where to start with this post....

1. The Kirby games are among Nintendo's best games. Calling them beanie baby characters, no matter how true that may be, shows you dislike Kirby for the sole reason of him being cute. Go pick up K64 on the Virtual Console or SSU on the DS.

2. Alright, this is perhaps the most important part of this post here: Masahiro Sakurai had no control over which characters are good or bad. That's right folks, that part is left up to the game's designers. The only things the director himself had control of were who got in the game(aka he probably decided to axe Mewtwo) and the story mode, which admittedly is very Kirby-like.

However, and this is important to note, this was most likely the last chance he got to do anything with his baby. Since I doubt he would be able to make a Kirby game anymore(Sakurai left HAL after issues over the development of Kirby Airide), this was his last chance to make a Kirby game....just one that starred Nintendo's flagship franchises. And that ONLY applies to the story mode.

3. Just wondering out loud, but aren't the CSS done by a certain order? Like Smash veterans, their series' fighters under the main character, and then the Melee and Brawl peeps? I'm not sure. Kirby just happened to be in the middle is my point.


And the comment someone had about the music....well, Kirby had probably just as many songs as Pokemon or Mario, just that he only had two stages to stick them on compared to the other's three or four or five stages that they had. And personally, not all of them were great, but I'll agree the majority were. However, that kinda has been applied since the first game. I always found Kirby's music in the Smash games to be better than the other series.

It's similar to what I said, I said that IMHO if you're a Kirby hater, then you might have trouble enjoying brawl. That might be a load of crap to some people, but it sounds a little reasonable to me. I feel like no matter what mode you enter, there's always going to be something Kirby-esque or something Kirby related that's in there. For some fans like myself, we beleive his bias really took him overboard this time, it's kind of like we're playing Super Kirby Bros. Brawl rather than Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

 

[GTA_Hater_331]

I have a neutral opinion towards the Kirby series. Sure, the gameplay may have had some problems, but I took the character development to be the series' main focus. Personally, Kirby and Sonic are not the kiddiest characters ever created. Far from it! You want to talk kiddy, you're playing by Yoshi's Story's rules. Remember Melee Stage Yoshi's Story (prod. code #208)? THAT was kiddy.

 

[IThinkAboutIvysaur]

There are 6 playable Pokémons though.

 

[n88]

Oh boy. Another one of these discussions. I'd like to make a few points here

1) Accusations that the whole set-up is Kirbyesque

Umm... Maybe because that's the way he likes designing things? You might notice that multiple paintings by the same artist tend to have a similar style. Or that books written by the same author tend to share certain elements. There really is no problem with this.

2) Kirby characters are too good

Kirby got a buff because he was bad in Melee. This happened to Game & Watch, Pikachu, and Bowser to a lesser extent as well. As for Dedede and Meta Knight, they are both newcomers. Newcomers have a strong tendency to place higher on the tier list than veterans. As a side note, Sakurai intended FSes to be part of normal play. Take note of thier sucky Final Smashes.


3) Kirby Bias in The SSE

Sakurai was not the sole person in charge of the story of the SSE. There is definitely Kirby bias here, but not all the blame can lie with Sakurai. PLus, take into account that besides the fact that Sakurai is more familiar with his own characters than with those of other series, so he is better able to give them fitting roles. The three characters with no roles in the SSE are speculated to be late additions. It seems unlikely that they were shafted on purpose. Also, Wriring a story w/no dialogue involving 35 characters with established backstorues that don't relate to each other can be difficult.

 

[BG3]

Oh boy. Another one of these discussions. I'd like to make a few points here

1) Accusations that the whole set-up is Kirbyesque

Umm... Maybe because that's the way he likes designing things? You might notice that multiple paintings by the same artist tend to have a similar style. Or that books written by the same author tend to share certain elements. There really is no problem with this.

2) Kirby characters are too good

Kirby got a buff because he was bad in Melee. This happened to Game & Watch, Pikachu, and Bowser to a lesser extent as well. As for Dedede and Meta Knight, they are both newcomers. Newcomers have a strong tendency to place higher on the tier list than veterans. As a side note, Sakurai intended FSes to be part of normal play. Take note of thier sucky Final Smashes.


3) Kirby Bias in The SSE

Sakurai was not the sole person in charge of the story of the SSE. There is definitely Kirby bias here, but not all the blame can lie with Sakurai. PLus, take into account that besides the fact that Sakurai is more familiar with his own characters than with those of other series, so he is better able to give them fitting roles. The three characters with no roles in the SSE are speculated to be late additions. It seems unlikely that they were shafted on purpose. Also, Wriring a story w/no dialogue involving 35 characters with established backstorues that don't relate to each other can be difficult.

1)If that's Sakurai's way of designing(everything turning out Kirby-esque) then perhaps this developer seat he has should be given to someone else.

2)As Bleyva had already said, if you think that MK's tier placement was "merely coincidence" and DDD's chaingrab was "accidentally" left in even when it was present in the E for all demo then you are kidding yourselves. MK was even more broken in the demo, Drill Rush did 30%! Now that's just some obvious bias.

3)If Sakurai has little knowledge on the other series, then other people in charge of the storyline aspect of the particular games should be next to his seat making things similar to how it would actually play out in their game. Basically, what I'm saying is make other game devs in charge of their respective game monitor Sakurai so everything isn't turning out to Kirby related and other series get some rightful representation. If Sakurai doesn't have restrictions then things will turn out like the SSE did.(Large amounts of representation that he reallly doesn't deserve)

 

[n88]

1)If that's Sakurai's way of designing(everything turning out Kirby-esque) then perhaps this developer seat he has should be given to someone else.

2)As Bleyva had already said, if you think that MK's tier placement was "merely coincidence" and DDD's chaingrab was "accidentally" left in even when it was present in the E for all demo then you are kidding yourselves. MK was even more broken in the demo, Drill Rush did 30%! Now that's just some obvious bias.

3)If Sakurai has little knowledge on the other series, then other people in charge of the storyline aspect of the particular games should be next to his seat making things similar to how it would actually play out in their game. Basically, what I'm saying is make other game devs in charge of their respective game monitor Sakurai so everything isn't turning out to Kirby related and other series get some rightful representation. If Sakurai doesn't have restrictions then things will turn out like the SSE did.(Large amounts of representation that he reallly doesn't deserve)

I'm not denying that there's Kirby bias. I'm saying that it's not as bad as some make it out to be.

 

[BG3]

I'm not denying that there's Kirby bias. I'm saying that it's not as bad as some make it out to be.

True, but I seriously wish other people such as Miyamato would be next to Sakurai's seat during the SSE development. It would turn out like a true nintendo adventure, not a kirby adventure with other nintendo characters playing less important roles.

 

[n88]

True, but I seriously wish other people such as Miyamato would be next to Sakurai's seat during the SSE development. It would turn out like a true nintendo adventure, not a kirby adventure with other nintendo characters playing less important roles.

That seems doubtfull at this point. Originally, Sakurai didn't want to make Brawl, but now he would be willing to make more Smash games. The possibility of Sakurai losing control of the series has shrunk since Brawl came out.

Plus, Sakurai does listen to fans. Keep b****ing about whatever you don't like in Brawl, and it will probably be fixed.

 

[BG3]

That seems doubtfull at this point. Originally, Sakurai didn't want to make Brawl, but now he would be willing to make more Smash games. The possibility of Sakurai losing control of the series has shrunk since Brawl came out.

Plus, Sakurai does listen to fans. Keep b****ing about whatever you don't like in Brawl, and it will probably be fixed.

That's a little disappointing knowing that he won't give up his spot.

 

[ph00tbag]

Metroid actually does pretty terrible in Japan, which I think is really where Smash has always focused itself.

Incidentally, the Kirby series does better over there than Metroid.

 

[BG3]

The metroid series is still better to claim as the top 4 series in smash. Honestly, Kirby is only there because of Sakurai. What also is really annoying is that Sakurai portrays Kirby as the "ultimate rival" for Mario in smash. Kirby has no place to be next to Mario, he's one of the last characters you'd probably think of to put as a rival to Mario. You can see instances of this in the SSB64 intro as well as in the intro for the SSE. It makes no sense as to why Kirby is seen as Mario's rival, so many better characters fill this role. In the SSE intro, Zelda and Peach are there, so it should be Mario and Link, not Kirby!? Kirby is only in this spot because of Sakurai, nothing else. Sorry about these long posts, it's just that this bias issue has always kind of annoyed me.

 

[GTA_Hater_331]

I agree that SOME pro-Kirby bias is evident, but it's far overblown. Can you explain why there's only 1 Kirby-themed stage? How about the 3rd Star-Fox character when Fox only has 5 installments to date? Or 2 Mother/EarthBound characters representing 3 installments? Look at all the retro characters for (beep)'s sake!

 

[BG3]

Agreed. Does anyone think that these problems would erase if Miyamato was in Sakurai's place?

 

[§leepy God]

Agreed. Does anyone think that these problems would erase if Miyamato was in Sakurai's place?

♪ Would Smash Bros even be created if Miyamato was in Sakurai's place? Think about it, a would without Smash Bros. †

 

[Green_Swirl]

I agree that SOME pro-Kirby bias is evident, but it's far overblown. Can you explain why there's only 1 Kirby-themed stage? How about the 3rd Star-Fox character when Fox only has 5 installments to date? Or 2 Mother/EarthBound characters representing 3 installments? Look at all the retro characters for (beep)'s sake!

Well just because a series has a few games doesn't mean it makes a low impact, or that a series with a lot of games automatically deserves a spot in Brawl. Look at the Famicom Wars series, it has 10 or more games.

The Mother series only has 3 games, but it has created quite a large fanbase over the past 20 years it's been around. Keep in mind that Brawl came out just two years after Mother 3 was released. I'm pretty sure that Mother 3 would've brought in some fans during that time, and I'd think that those fans would like to see a character from that game.

I actually like Retro/Japan-only characters and I was kind of disappointed by the low number of them added to Brawl. The thing I like about the Smash series, Melee especially, is it's representation of characters and other material from all areas of Nintendo games. The retro characters are interesting as you see some of Nintendo's early steps in the gaming industry (Game & Watch especially). I wasn't surprised by Pit's inclusion into Brawl since Kid Icarus has a pretty reasonable fan base. When Melee was released, Marth and Samus were also "retro" characters IMO, seeing that both hadn't had a game since 1994. It's possible that due to the popularity of Smash Bros. that these and other obscure characters are now more popular, with all the Metroid games since 2001-now, and the remake of Fire Emblem on the DS.

As far as a series being overrepresented, I would have to say the Mario series, along with Pokemon. There are 4 Mario characters, and 4 other characters (Yoshi, DK, Diddy Kong, Wario) that are somewhat connected to the Mario Series. There are 6 stages with the Mario icon, and if you count stages based off Mario games, you would also include 75m and Yoshi's Island (Melee), bringing a total of 8 stages. Most series have 1 or 2 stages, 3 if their lucky. As for Pokemon... 4 playable characters (6 from a technical standpoint), 3 stages, an item equivalent to importance to Assist Trophies, and a whole ton of trophies (same for the Mario series as well). Both series have over 60 trophies each, while series like Fire Emblem and Mother only have 9.

 

[BG3]

♪ Would Smash Bros even be created if Miyamato was in Sakurai's place? Think about it, a would without Smash Bros. †

I'm saying if Miyamato took his place during Brawl's development, not the whole series.

 

[Sosuke]

One of the main things I don't understand about Brawl


No

The MAIN thing I don't understand about Brawl



3 Kirby Characters

2 stages


NO DREAMLAND!?!?!??!?!?!?

 

[ph00tbag]

The metroid series is still better to claim as the top 4 series in smash. Honestly, Kirby is only there because of Sakurai. What also is really annoying is that Sakurai portrays Kirby as the "ultimate rival" for Mario in smash. Kirby has no place to be next to Mario, he's one of the last characters you'd probably think of to put as a rival to Mario. You can see instances of this in the SSB64 intro as well as in the intro for the SSE. It makes no sense as to why Kirby is seen as Mario's rival, so many better characters fill this role. In the SSE intro, Zelda and Peach are there, so it should be Mario and Link, not Kirby!? Kirby is only in this spot because of Sakurai, nothing else. Sorry about these long posts, it's just that this bias issue has always kind of annoyed me.

While I agree that the Kirby characters are given a bit more of a prominent role in the games, I think you're overblowing the issue of how well-received it is. It's not unlikely that Kirby does better in Japan than Metroid. In fact, I believe I've heard that very statistic. Kirby's actually quite popular over there, and Metroid is rather unsupported. The US is the main country keeping the Metroid franchise alive. Meanwhile, Kirby does well everywhere. You would be able to make a case that Zelda or Pokemon warrant more attention, because they do, but not so much Metroid.

Either that, or I've just been a Metroid fan long enough that I'm used to getting the shaft, and will gobble up any little bit I can get.

 

[Craeter]

One of the main things I don't understand about Brawl


No

The MAIN thing I don't understand about Brawl



3 Kirby Characters

2 stages


NO DREAMLAND!?!?!??!?!?!?

True, for all the kirbyness in the game there's only halberd and green greens.

 

[day-day]

True, for all the kirbyness in the game there's only halberd and green greens.

That is quite weird now that I think about it. Why isn't there a dreamland stage in this game? They should have put in one and taken out the mario stage that side scrolls while you play.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

Personally I love seeing the old Mushroom Kingdom as a barren, lifeless desert.
Dream Land may have completely over-represented the Kirby Series however.

Although technically speaking there are a total of 6 Pokemon Characters (including Ivysaur, Charizard, and Squirtle, yet excluding Pokemon Trainer).

Besides, without the Kirby series, the SSE would have never lived on.

 

[BG3]

While I agree that the Kirby characters are given a bit more of a prominent role in the games, I think you're overblowing the issue of how well-received it is. It's not unlikely that Kirby does better in Japan than Metroid. In fact, I believe I've heard that very statistic. Kirby's actually quite popular over there, and Metroid is rather unsupported. The US is the main country keeping the Metroid franchise alive. Meanwhile, Kirby does well everywhere. You would be able to make a case that Zelda or Pokemon warrant more attention, because they do, but not so much Metroid.

Either that, or I've just been a Metroid fan long enough that I'm used to getting the shaft, and will gobble up any little bit I can get.

Right now, the Kirby franchise is not doing as well as the Metroid series is doing. Metroid Prime 3 Corruption was one of the wii's best titles, Metriod Other M looks like it's going to be very successful, and we even have the Metroid pack which includes motion controls for the first two games of a certain Metroid saga. I'm pretty sure all of this will boost Metroid's popularity by a lot. The Kirby franchise really isn't doing much to compete with any of this.

 

[Lyds]

I think it's time to throw some statistics in this discussion. VGChartz has listed sales for next to everyone game and I think you can trust the numbers they listed, but some data is incomplete. The sale numbers are divided into three regions: Japan, NA and others (Europe and Australia).

So, you can easy compare the Metroid series to the Kirby series.

The results:
Kirby series
Metroid series
Compare the sales of both series in NA and Japan (and ignore the VC-Games listed)

#1 Kirby games sell very well, better than Metroid games
#2 The Metroid games are strong in NA and Europe, but Kirby games are even better selling in these regions.
#3 Most important: Metroid games are very unpopular in Japan, because this genre is very unpopular in Japan. You can call the series unimportant and minor when looking at the sales of the series. The last game that sold well in Japan was Super Metroid for the SNES. That's 15 years ago.
#4 The Kirby series are very strong in Japan.
#5 Both series have a lot of recent games.

-> The Kirby series are by far more important than the Metroid series and the Star Fox series for Nintendo. It's not wrong having the Kirby series at #4 after Pokémon, the Mario series and the LoZ. 3 characters and 2 stages is a good representation for Kirby.

The SSE isn't. There's way too much Kirby representation in the SSE, all Kirby characters are very important, the series got much more representation than necessary.

As for the Kirby characters being too strong (-> bias):
I somehow think it could be biased, that they're too strong. It's unrealistic that Sora Ltd. didn't found the D3 CG/infinite (as example). The first videos of free play we've got from the Brawl demo before JPN-Release showed us that D3 could CG. Kirby needed a buff, he's a decent char and he's no way overpowered. Yeah, Meta Knight... I don't think I need to say something about him, it may bias that he is like in Brawl...

I think many people forget about Melee. Both SF-characters were top tier and Kirby was just horrbile. Not only as a character itself, the representation of the Kirby series was also horrible. In my opinion Melee-Kirby is the worst character for competitive play compared to the rooster in all three smash games and the nerf from SSB64-Kirby to Melee-Kirby was also the biggest one in smash's history.

What are all people saying that the SSE is like a Kirby game? The whole Smash series is a Kirby game. The reason why Smash is like Smash and not like other fighters is that HAL created the first Smash game and they took the basic mechanics from Kirby: Super Star (awesome game btw). Also most ideas introducted in the Smash series have their origin in the Kirby games.

That's my opinion. I thought it's time to register on Smashboards, because I'm reading it for years, but I never had the need to write something in this forum. My English is bad, because it's not my first language and I was very lazy in school.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

To The Sleepy One: Threads that date back over a year aren't supposed to be revived.

To D. E.: The trilogy was Dream Land. Adventure was the NES game that introduced Meta-Knight. As for Super Star Ultra having the mini-games, that's how Kirby's remakes are. I just want the next installment, Kirby Wii already!

Yea i have the Trilogy for the GB i loved the original 3 so much

Rare left DK? When did this happen? After DK 64 I'm guessing.

Rareware was bought out by Microsoft shortly after they finished Star Fox Adventures: Dinosaur Planet. And since Donkey Kong is a Nintendo title, they wouldnt allow it to go onto a Microsoft console

*FACEPALM*

Just because Sega isn't selling consoles anymore doesn't mean they don't own Sonic.

what? obvi they have the rights to the character why wouldnt they own Sonic? Im talking about how his franchise is doing

 

[superyoshi888]

I think it should also be noted that the SSE might be a contributing factor in Kirby Wii's constant delay.

 

[GTA_Hater_331]

They better not cancel Kirby Wii!

 

[day-day]

Sonic's currently 16th in top selling franchises. He should be higher then the crap games nickelodeon puts out.

 

[GTA_Hater_331]

Speaking of cruddy Nickelodeon games, I'm mad at DataDesign Interactive for flooding the Wii with garbage that my colleagues had to forage through to find the gems like Brawl.

 

[day-day]

Speaking of cruddy Nickelodeon games, I'm mad at DataDesign Interactive for flooding the Wii with garbage that my colleagues had to forage through to find the gems like Brawl.

What garbage games? I'm quite curious to know..

 

[GTA_Hater_331]

What garbage games? I'm quite curious to know..

We all know that the 3rd-party support on the Wii is bad, right? Most of those lazy, shovelware 3rd-party games were made by Data Design Interactive.

 

[day-day]

We all know that the 3rd-party support on the Wii is bad, right? Most of those lazy, shovelware 3rd-party games were made by Data Design Interactive.

Huh never knew that they made most of those terrible game I see on the shelf's. Most of the third party support is pretty bad though.

 

[ShinoBee]

Let me make it simple. I'll give a scenario.

Say you were a creator of a uber popular game series, and then was asked to do a whole crossover with other uber popular game series. Think about this, wouldn't YOU take advantage of the fact you're pretty much in charge and could put whatever you want? OF COURSE SAKURAI WAS BOUND TO DO THIS, IT'S NOT THAT HARD.

Metaknight being top tier was also bound to happen, too. Did no one see that coming at all?
Also:

 

[flyinfilipino]

Right now, the Kirby franchise is not doing as well as the Metroid series is doing. Metroid Prime 3 Corruption was one of the wii's best titles, Metriod Other M looks like it's going to be very successful, and we even have the Metroid pack which includes motion controls for the first two games of a certain Metroid saga. I'm pretty sure all of this will boost Metroid's popularity by a lot. The Kirby franchise really isn't doing much to compete with any of this.

There hasn't even been a Kirby game for the Wii yet (well, unless you feel like counting Brawl). Since we're talking about Metroid Prime 3, if you take a look at the charts that Lyds posted, Kirby Super Star Ultra for the DS has sold nearly twice as much. So I wouldn't say that the Kirby franchise isn't doing well, and that it's not doing anything to compete with Metroid (not that they're actually competing anyway), and the numbers agree.

As for the way Smash is modeled after Kirby games, is there something inherently wrong with it? I mean, think about it: Nintendo themselves asked Sakurai to make Brawl. If they don't see anything wrong with who's in charge of a series containing Nintendo's own flagship series, then what's the inherent problem? If Miyamoto was in charge, he might be biased towards his own creations (there are a lot), and people would complain. He'd do the menus and interfaces his own way, and people would complain. People will complain either way.

Check The Sleepy One's post on the first page of the thread; it links to an old thread that is exactly like this one, and talks about the exact same stuff.

 

[BG3]

Well I guess it's not too out of place to say Kirby is part of the 4 most represented series in Smash(if you count DK as a Mario character). But it is still pretty ridiculous to say he is the rival of Mario. He is portrayed many times as Mario's rival throughout Smash while many more well known, successful, and better choices are there for Sakurai to use......yet he doesn't.

@flyinfilipino: Miyamato's characters deserve to be broken LMAO. It's BS how Sakurai's creations are S/A/B tier while Miyamato's creations are utter crap. Even in the SSE, Mario,Link, Samus and the like did NOTHING. They just followed around while Kirby took the spotlight.

Sorry if I'm sounding a bit too serious with this, it just annoys me.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

Well I guess it's not too out of place to say Kirby is part of the 4 most represented series in Smash(if you count DK as a Mario character). But it is still pretty ridiculous to say he is the rival of Mario. He is portrayed many times as Mario's rival throughout Smash while many more well known, successful, and better choices are there for Sakurai to use......yet he doesn't.

@flyinfilipino: Miyamato's characters deserve to be broken LMAO. It's BS how Sakurai's creations are S/A/B tier while Miyamato's creations are utter crap. Even in the SSE, Mario,Link, Samus and the like did NOTHING. They just followed around while Kirby took the spotlight.

Sorry if I'm sounding a bit too serious with this, it just annoys me.

When was Kirby ever considered Mario's rival anyway?
Mein gott, Mario has Sonic, Donkey Kong, and bloody hell of course Bowser himself.

I even think that Samus would be a better rival for Mario than Kirby.
Then again... It is the Smash Brothers Series, to me many of the parts of Smash seem irrelevant to the actual character's games, excluding the attacks/airships.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Kirby isn't portrayed as Mario's rival in Smash; nowhere is that outright implied. Sure, they fight each other in SSE, but does that really mean anything? The SSE is just a random storyline.

When Sakurai made the game, he tried to give every character an equal fighting chance. The fact that no characters (especially not Miyamoto's) are outright terrible shows that the correlation to a fan-made tier list is more likely than not just a consequence of the difficulty of balancing a game with so many characters.

 

[lordvaati]

Well I guess it's not too out of place to say Kirby is part of the 4 most represented series in Smash(if you count DK as a Mario character). But it is still pretty ridiculous to say he is the rival of Mario. He is portrayed many times as Mario's rival throughout Smash while many more well known, successful, and better choices are there for Sakurai to use......yet he doesn't.

@flyinfilipino: Miyamato's characters deserve to be broken LMAO. It's BS how Sakurai's creations are S/A/B tier while Miyamato's creations are utter crap. Even in the SSE, Mario,Link, Samus and the like did NOTHING. They just followed around while Kirby took the spotlight.

Sorry if I'm sounding a bit too serious with this, it just annoys me.

Olimar , Falco, T.Link and DK are Top and highs.