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Kirby Everything -- Kirby Social Thread
- Thread starter Rizner
- Start date
FreeGamer
Smash Ace
I think Lucas Kirby should have PK Magnet instead of PK Freeze. Offense Up would be preferable, but I'm sure we can tell how successful they were with trying to implement that. 
So. If Kirby were to, say, get a patch of some kind, what would you have improved?
I, myself, am not looking for something game breaking, as he's pretty good as is, but I do know he has a few short comings. Hell, I feel if he gained improved air movement comparable to Wario and Puff, I'd be a happy bird.
What about you all?
I, myself, am not looking for something game breaking, as he's pretty good as is, but I do know he has a few short comings. Hell, I feel if he gained improved air movement comparable to Wario and Puff, I'd be a happy bird.
What about you all?
Iremia
Smash Rookie
Does anyone know when/if we will get frame data and hotboxes for Kirby?
Unwavering_Canadian
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- May 3, 2014
- Messages
- 75
skellitorman
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2005
- Messages
- 319
Dair is solid in this game.
Yes hitting someone with one hit of the dair may allow the opponent to recover better, but you can always go off the stage and literally drag them down with dair. Edgeguarding on stage was purposely made less rewarding in PM.
Dair actually does combo well, just not at low percents. At around 75% and higher, you can combo into smash attacks if you have very good execution. At around 100% and higher, you can combo much more reliably for a KO.
Unfortunately Kirby does have problems with sourspots on his smash attacks (upsmash and downsmash) which really makes it more difficult to rely on in general, thus contributing significantly to Kirby's inability to get solid KOs.
FreeGamer
Smash Ace
I think the position of the sweetspot/sourspot on D-Smash make sense, the problem is that the move has pathetic range and D-Tilt is always the better choice.
skellitorman
Smash Journeyman
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- Apr 12, 2005
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I disagree with dtilt always being the better choice.
Dsmash was Kirby's fastest smash attack in Melee and although I don't have the frame data I think it is still his fastest smash attack. Obviously dsmash is a smash attack and can guarantee a KO if it hits at certain percents. So it can be used as his fastest whiff punisher that KOs. Just like most dsmashes it hits both sides which is good for catching rolls or tech rolls.
In Melee the sweetspots made a bit more sense since the leg itself was invincible during it's first 3 active frames and hits at a very good angle making it difficult for opponents to recover. In PM I don't think it maintained that invincibility although I could be mistaken. Furthermore, in Melee recoveries were alot easier to edgeguard while on stage unlike in PM so the sourspot was effective.
In PM it cannot be used that way anymore and thus the sourspot is no longer effective. Due to the overall low knockback of both the sweetspot and the sourspot, it just is not rewarding enough with all of its current properties (speed, range). The least they could do is improve the reliability of the move as a KO move by removing the effect of the sourspot.
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I'm not 100% on this but i think that Dsmash comes out the quickest of all kirby's smashes and can be used with dthrow on some characters for a kill. Also, CC with it is very useful. Not say to spam it, but it is a good choice in some situations.
So does anyone here use the tap to jump? I didn't at first and then started using it. I found that I use Kirby's aerials much more quickly and easily with it. However I also found that dash dancing and up tilts are harder to implement. I'm trying to switch off of tap to jump because I know dash dancing and my up tilt can be essential but I'm having trouble with timing my aerials and doing as much of them as I did before. What do you guys use/suggest? Is one more essential then the other?
FreeGamer
Smash Ace
Ever since Brawl gave me the option to turn it off, I've stopped using it. The way I do rising aerials on my Classic Pro is by quickly pivoting over X to hit A. On a GCC, I believe Y to A is generally used.
Ya most people i have seen use Y to jump (I also use X). To use tilts etc... with tap jump on requires you to train you muscle to point up on control stick just high enough to use the tilts, but not far enough to use jump (kind of like learning to short hop). I personally don't use it, but melee people deal with it easily.
Also, I hit a yoshi with BOTH swings of the aerial hammer while he was using his 2nd jump to recover. First one stopped him in place and second one finished him off. Shout outs to him for allowing me to do a dancing taunt afterwards before he beat me...
Also, I hit a yoshi with BOTH swings of the aerial hammer while he was using his 2nd jump to recover. First one stopped him in place and second one finished him off. Shout outs to him for allowing me to do a dancing taunt afterwards before he beat me...
So what do you think I should do? Stick to tap jump? Because I'm already pretty decent with tap to jump. I use x for short hops though. If I switch I just feel like it's a whole different mindset.
And sweet! I did that in a doubles matchup that involved Armada yesterday lol I hit his partner but... still.
Do whatever feels comfortable man. If most people dont use it, but it feels right to you, go on and do it. I use tap jump for basically everything and I can do everything just fine. It doesnt hinder anything that a person with X or Y to jump can do, its just a different way of doing things.
So I guess just work on up tilts with tap to jump?
I mean... if you want. Its definitely possible, but if thats too challenging go ahead and turn it off. Also you said you can jump with X already, if you're not using it to jump and stuff go ahead and turn it off, it wont make much of a difference it just helps.
NinKenDo64
Smash Apprentice
So guys I've been getting a lot of heat about how "busted" Kirby is at tournaments. Would you guys agree to this or just believe it's another John? I personally believe he could use some tweaking with swallow and horizontal cutter but besides that it's not too much of a problem if you know how to deal with his game.
Ive listed all the tweaks Kirby needs. Cutter dash is not one of them. People will complain about whatever is cheap, and guess what... people will always play cheap in this game because its so accessible. There needs to be a lot of work on PM as a whole, and Kirby's just one of the few. Johns will be johns
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1f4FWM5qtQ
Me when I fight a unfamiliar character.
Me when I fight a unfamiliar character.
Lol that's gold
Just experimenting with stuff. Found some good throw options.
Fthrow > Instant Jump Nair (pretty sure it can be DI'ed away tho)
Uthrow > Uair > Jump Nair (Nair can be avoided)
These two throw combos can link into each other on most of the non fastfallers.
Fthrow > Instant Jump Nair (pretty sure it can be DI'ed away tho)
Uthrow > Uair > Jump Nair (Nair can be avoided)
These two throw combos can link into each other on most of the non fastfallers.
NinKenDo64
Smash Apprentice
I have combo'd Uthrow > Hammer many times on heavier characters around 80 percent. Kirby has soooooo much potential.
bamv9
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
- Messages
- 4
I'll have to try this out
benefluence
Smash Rookie
Most of Kirby's throw combos don't work if the opponent DIs away. In fact, pretty much the only time you don't want to DI kirby's throws away are
1) Bthrow
2) Dthrow on the edge if you're one of the characters he can spike with it.
That being said, if you fthrow at the edge, people will often instinctively DI in, which can set up a kill.
1) Bthrow
2) Dthrow on the edge if you're one of the characters he can spike with it.
That being said, if you fthrow at the edge, people will often instinctively DI in, which can set up a kill.
Unwavering_Canadian
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- May 3, 2014
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- 75
Up-throw into cutter dash is effective to chase (assuming that they DI away). Even if you don't hit with cutter dash, it often sets you up for a nair or other aerial.
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Was playing link and was able to uthrow > Uair> Bair> at 40%.
If you run off the edge to get someone and your close enough to them the camera will zoom to both of you and they will have harder time recovering because they may not know exactly where edge is.
Also you know your playing kirby right when person leaves pissed off and ******** how overpowered kirby is.
If you run off the edge to get someone and your close enough to them the camera will zoom to both of you and they will have harder time recovering because they may not know exactly where edge is.
Also you know your playing kirby right when person leaves pissed off and ******** how overpowered kirby is.
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Jinjo64
Smash Apprentice
I always say remember melee Kirby's suck up...
batistabus
Smash Journeyman
Just something I've noticed from watching a lot of Kirby (Chu) videos.
Does anyone have a problem with Kirby's down-b? It's not very strong and I've never really seen it abused, but I feel like that move is way too good. If you use it in the air, Kirby ROCKETS down to the ground probably faster than any move in the game, is invincible (super armor), and you can cancel it instantly. As long as you cancel it before/as soon as you hit the ground, I can't really see it being very punishable. Even if this move can't be used very well offensively, it's amazing for escaping combos, something Kirby is already relatively good at as a floaty. There are definitely more problematic moves in PM, but I just feel like this is a get-out-of-jail-free card that Kirby doesn't really need. He seems really solid overall otherwise, so if he has a useless down-b like in previous games, I don't really think that would be a problem.
Thoughts?
Does anyone have a problem with Kirby's down-b? It's not very strong and I've never really seen it abused, but I feel like that move is way too good. If you use it in the air, Kirby ROCKETS down to the ground probably faster than any move in the game, is invincible (super armor), and you can cancel it instantly. As long as you cancel it before/as soon as you hit the ground, I can't really see it being very punishable. Even if this move can't be used very well offensively, it's amazing for escaping combos, something Kirby is already relatively good at as a floaty. There are definitely more problematic moves in PM, but I just feel like this is a get-out-of-jail-free card that Kirby doesn't really need. He seems really solid overall otherwise, so if he has a useless down-b like in previous games, I don't really think that would be a problem.
Thoughts?
Bait it cuz it can be punished, he has pretty notable lag afterwards and its very telegraphed. Its basically a Toon Link Dair (in brawl) with superarmor, you cant just spam that move when you're in the air or you'd get bopped every time. Its KO potential isnt that good, but that doesnt mean its offensive potential isnt good. The combos you can pull off of that move is insane, Rock to aerial Hammer is a true combo on some characters at certain %s.
Also if you're looking at Chu for Kirby techniques, unless you're really good at recognizing how he conditions his opponent and how he baits in neutral, you're not gonna get anything but random stuff and ledge camping with inhale.
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batistabus
Smash Journeyman
Uh...no he doesn't? As soon as you cancel the move, you can instantly act out of it as far as I can tell. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here.
I just said that to get across the point that I didn't think the move was broken in the typical sense. I'm sure there is some offensive potential for it.
As far as I know, Chu has by far the best PM Kirby results. I understand he plays pretty conservatively with the character (he seems to be trying new things more nowadays), but there really don't appear to be any other noteworthy Kirby players (unless they're regional threats that don't travel, then I'm not aware of them). I'm not trying to learn Kirby or anything, but if I'm trying to see how far the character can be taken, he's really the only player I care about at this point. Anything else that happens in the lab or at low level hasn't been adequately put to the test imo.
I could see it being a Pit situation - where a Melee pro picks up the character and does extremely well using fundamentals (Armada), but then a (Brawl) player comes along and explores the character a lot more thoroughly, thus getting much more out of the character and having ultimately better results (Zero). The other side of that is that players start thinking/realizing/deciding that the character is broken at that point, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Bro, trust me. Im not just some noob whos played Kirby like for 5 minutes, the rock has about the same amout of endlag on it that it did in Brawl, the only difference is that he can control his momentum instantly afterwards, and can wavedash afterwards. That combined with the quicker startup, being able to cancel it quicker, and being more of a combo move than a KO move are the only differences. There are about 20-30 frames of Kirby popping out of the rock where he cant do anything.
But to answer your original question, I think the rock is fine as is. True it can shoot him down pretty instantly out of the air, but so can MK's Dair, Sonic's Dair (both of which can be lcancelled), Yoshi's Ganon's Falcon's and Bowser's down-b's (all of which are full commital with more noticable end lag). Pika can QAC from certain heights to get back to the stage. Any teleport can also potentially do the same thing with more endlag unless its mewtwo. Just sayin, I know you said Rock is one of many problematic moves which i totally agree with, I have no idea how they could make it worse without destroying its combo game which was the goal of the move... they could make it full committal like Yoshi and Bowser's but hey, like you said, another useless Down-B isnt that big a deal i guess.
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skellitorman
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2005
- Messages
- 319
@
batistabus
: Gohan is correct.
The move is not safe on block unless the opponent blocks the ground hit (since it has more blockstun and pushback), and Kirby instantly cancels and moves away from the opponent. If you hit the shield (with the nongrounded hit) and instantly cancel it, it can be punished by OoS options, such as Nair. It can also be whiff punished if it misses.
Furthermore it can be spotdodged on reaction and punished. Stone also eliminates one jump per use. The move is quite balanced even though it may not seem so at first.
Stone can be good if used properly during offense as well and has good combo potential.
batistabus
: Gohan is correct.The move is not safe on block unless the opponent blocks the ground hit (since it has more blockstun and pushback), and Kirby instantly cancels and moves away from the opponent. If you hit the shield (with the nongrounded hit) and instantly cancel it, it can be punished by OoS options, such as Nair. It can also be whiff punished if it misses.
Furthermore it can be spotdodged on reaction and punished. Stone also eliminates one jump per use. The move is quite balanced even though it may not seem so at first.
Stone can be good if used properly during offense as well and has good combo potential.
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SSS
Smash Ace
If you think there aren't any noteworthy Kirby players, then you're clearly just one of those people who only watches nationals and only takes those players as being the best.
Unwavering_Canadian
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- May 3, 2014
- Messages
- 75
I play a good Kirby. Here is grand finals from our local tournament from April.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0S6mvlTSVA (or just forward to 25:20 for the best comeback game ever)
I didn't know Kirby tech back then but it just goes to show how good fundamentals work well with a solid character like Kirby.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0S6mvlTSVA (or just forward to 25:20 for the best comeback game ever)
I didn't know Kirby tech back then but it just goes to show how good fundamentals work well with a solid character like Kirby.
Unwavering_Canadian
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- May 3, 2014
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Oh, and while I'm here, any tips on the bowser match-up? We recently got a really good bowser in our scene. I typically beat bowser stuff by grabs and followups but any other tips are helpful.
SSS
Smash Ace
Uhhh i haven't played much Bowser. Grab a lot? Inhale a lot? Except I wouldn't rely on inhale to beat his armor moves, sounds dicey. Spitting him under the stage is good (stupid but good, etc.). But stealing Bowser's fire could also be good for edgeguarding him, possibly? I don't know. I haven't played him enough. What region are you? I'm, uh, guessing Canadian?
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If he is in sheild, hes either gonna up-b roll or spotdodge. Beat it with a quick grab, or a inhale from above. Fire isnt really that good for edgeguarding since it can be sdi'ed pretty easily. Also utilt a lot of the stuff he tries to throw out at you, utilt and dtilt are really good in that matchup. You can also gimp him pretty easily, without inhale. When its time, just bthrow him off, bair him, and when he's coming back either grab ledge if he sweetspots or dsmash him and then dair him afterwards. Also get your tech chases down, i find Bowser easy to tech chase. Also since Bowser is so large, combo him for days. After an utilt, get him in the air and start juggling. Just go crazy with followups when hes being juggled near the ground, theres nothing he can really do. If you bait him out in neutral, his attacks just seem way to slow just bait him out with a quick DD or whatever and punish.
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