Kirby Everything -- Kirby Social Thread

[Fizure]

I definitely default to the edge when waiting for my opponent's respawn. Easier to try to get early gimps and it's not like you can't get back to center stage for nearly free.

 

[FreeGamer]

I like to be in the middle when the other person is at low damage, then further out as they hit higher damage. Also, I think Hammer is seriously underrated as a spacing tool. dat disjoint

 

[Player -0]

It has really low ending lag for landing too. Just forcing respect super hard before random dash attack.

 

[Phan7om]

Hammer is soo good. Comes out a mere frame later than Peach's fair, is much more disjointed, and more knockback. Just think about it as a superior Peach's fair. Combine that with the ability to b-reverse and wavebounce it... Kreygasm. Jump forward wavebounce hammer back (shoots back while still facing forward) is extremely useful and covers a lot of space. Rock > Hammer is a true kill combo on some characters unless they DI into the stage, they'll still get hit but have a better chance of surviving (assuming not center stage) I also found out Utilt > Aerial Hammer was a true combo according to the combo counter at certain %s... we need more testing on this.

 

[Vinylic.]

NEW KIRBY TRIPLE DELUXE DLC.

 

[FreeGamer]

That's DLC? I thought they were standalone eShop games...

 

[Aunt Jemima]

They're not DLC. They actually are standalone eShop games.

 

[Jinjo64]

I prefer the edge any time of the match. I love chasing people off the edge and chaining fairs*.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

http://smashboards.com/threads/dreamlands-vault.360683/

 

[FreeGamer]

brb downloading that now

 

[Aunt Jemima]

I was watching the Kirby Fighters Z trailer and was reminded about the Meta Knight colored Kirby and the Shadow Kirby, so I was wondering - would you like me to add them? I'm currently working on a brown colored Kirby, so we would have Purple, Brown, MetaKnight, and Shadow, which would allow Kirby to have a total of NINE costumes.

 

[Phan7om]

Guys, I know that the next version of PM will come out within a month or so... so they're probably done with Kirby, but what changes would you guys like to see in him. Personally this is my changelist.

Normals
Jab: Same
Ftilt: Same
Dtilt: Forces tumble at much earlier %s (big one!)
Utilt: Slightly more shield damage
Dash Attack: Reduce priority, not as long, (think a fire version of Peach's)
Specials
Neutral: Decrease timer, remove release and replace with starshot, mash out easier, lose jumps if starshot release/starshot/copy offstage, reduce air mobility while using by half, grabbox is reduced to 60 frames before it ends automatically making it no longer infinite. Copy has utilt hitstun.
Side: Same
Down: Same
Up: Melee FC projectile restored, Meteor instead of spike, cant grab ledge from back unless
sweetspot
Aerials
Up: Melee forward knockback angle on first frame, slightly longer hitbox on first hitbox
Down: Slightly quicker startup
Forward: Slightly longer hitbox on first hitbox of 3rd kick
Back: Slightly longer hitbox on first hitbox
Neutral: Same
Smashes
Up: Sweetspot extends to whole foot
Down: Slightly more range
Forward/Side: Same
Throws
Up: More knockback growth, kills floaties around 110-130% FD. Still retains combo potential under 30%
Down: A lot less knockback, strictly tech chase throw, basically Melee's with more hitstun
Forward: More vertical knockback angle
Back: Same
Extra
Wavedash: Slightly more distance (similar to Yoshis)
Air Mobility: Increase (st ZSS')
Run Speed: Same
Grab Range: Increase (st MKs)
Hitboxes: Hurtbox doesnt cover furtheset 30% of his feet
Copy: Abilities exactly like original w/ minor tweaks
Everything Else Not Mentioned: Same

 

[Vert]

Gohan pretty much nailed my list. Although the u-throw kill move would seem iffy. Feel like depending on the stage it could kill pretty easily at mid - high percent. Like on green hill zone. The moving platform, if you were to land a u-throw at the peak of one of the sides that's pretty much half of the stage height. Would kill maybe like 70-90% minimum.

Anyways my biggest curiosity of the Kirby nerfs is will they nerf inhale and by how much? Probably will lower the mobility in the air because lets be real it's kind of too good. Don't make it like Melee where Kirby couldn't move but tone it down a bit? But hey if they don't nerf it better for us lol.

 

[FreeGamer]

I'd like to see his Brawl D-Throw and a killing U-Throw, maybe a nerf or 2 to Fireball.

 

[Phan7om]

Yeah as for nerfs, Inhale and Dash Attack are the only moves that might get nerfed. But idk, thats why im holding off on my AT thread until this next one comes out, i dont want half of them to go away or change.

 

[Unwavering_Canadian]

Kirby nerfs??? Why??? Kirby's not winning major tournaments. The only thing Kirby can do against Zelda is cg. Otherwise, the matchup is like 90-10 in Zelda's favor. All of her tilts and smashes beat Kirby's approaches, he loses in the aerial game too, nevermind the projectiles. Same thing with Metaknight, outprioritzing Kirby in pretty much every attack. Against Ganon, being lightweight means that he dies at like 60%. I'll agree that inhale is kind of broken but give Kirby some priority or faster smashes to combat the high tiers. It's not like everyone is saying that Kirby is the best in the game or even a high tier.

 

[Unwavering_Canadian]

But if they were thinking of changing Kirby... if they did nerf inhale they could give him back his N64 dair. I think that would be a fair trade.

 

[Phan7om]

The Zelda matchup isnt 90-10 lol. Its bad but not nearly that bad. And the only reason Kirby doesnt win any nationals is cuz Chu only plays purely on fundamentals, no character specifics for the matchup. If he used everything Kirby could do hed take every tournament easy, and Kirby would definitely be nerfed to ****. Just use his tilts, you shouldnt be spamming smashes in neutral. Utilt and Dtilt come out in frame 4 and Ftilt in 5. Read her Up-B, and when she shoots a Dins rush her down, wavedash back and punish. If your throwing out smashes, and only approaching with dash attack and cutter dash you'll get wrecked. You even know Kirby has a CG, that alone doesnt make the matchup 90:10. SHFF Hammer is really underrated as a zoning tool. Get Zelda above you and punish the missed dair. If she up-b's just rock. Rock > Hammer kills at like 70%. The matchup just requires you to play differently. Id say its 60:40 at worst.

 

[skellitorman]

I highly doubt that Kirby will be getting any nerfs, unless there are some very significant buffs that completely change him.

Copy giving the opponent advantage should definitely be fixed. Copy abilities should also be balanced.

If they keep Kirby's main properties the same or relatively similar, then I highly suspect that Kirby will have a more rewarding grab game. I expect F throw and U throw to at least do as much damage as in Melee (8% and 10%). Most importantly though Kirby's up throw should be a kill throw. It has been requested by several other players because it makes sense for so many reasons. I find it ridiculous that Metaknight's throws (except for down throw is the same) do significantly more damage. Even Metaknight's up throw kills at a lesser percent (about 10-15%) than Kirby's.

The biggest thing they should address aside from the grabs are the sourspots he has on several attacks. Sourspots just don’t work very well for this character’s build. He is slow on the ground and has low air mobility, has low range, has an average damage output overall, and has no viable projectile. Characters who are very fast and or who have a lot of range, can actually space their sweetspots much more reliably. If a character has moves that stun or projectiles then it also works. A character like Kirby who does not have these properties, therefore usually doesn't have the advantage in neutral. He also struggles to get solid KOs as it is, so he should not be further impaired with sourspots.

Upsmash, downsmash, and ground hammer having a sourspot makes no sense. Air hammer having a sourspot is debatable. Although Air hammer has good properties, it is very difficult to use reliably and consistently due to Kirby's lack of mobility combined with its long startup, and current sweetspot.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Kirby get improved air mobility, but these 2 things should be changed (grab game and sourspots removed).

 

[Phan7om]

Read previous list

 

[pinkdeaf1]

Add on to my list
-Rock quake box shouldnt send them outwards, but bounce them up like Wario's dsmash.

I kinda like how rock sends people outwards, but I see how beneficial that change might be for kirby.

 

[luar1609]

Hi there fellow Kirby mains! I would really appreciate tips against Roy and Lucas! Thank you very much!

 

[Unwavering_Canadian]

Hi there fellow Kirby mains! I would really appreciate tips against Roy and Lucas! Thank you very much!

Roy: Roys like to crouch cancel a lot which is just asking for consecutive up-tilts. Stay further away from Roy's attacks than you would in Melee, the hitboxes tend to extend beyond his sword. Roy's recovery is pretty bad so if you can, back throw him off stage, grab ledge, and finish with a back air (note that Roys will recover from lower than you probably think they can so make sure you cover the ~70 degree angle when you guard off stage). Kirbicides work really well (inhale, drop off ledge, when they get out jump then nair to snipe their jump, bair them or get back to ledge). Never be above a Roy, it is hard to get down and you'll just take damage. Side cutter to get away, Rock to get down whether that's rock to the side of them or Rock through them. And I'm sure someone else here can give some more advice.

Lucas: If the Lucas is spamming pk freeze bulbs, a good approach is dash into crouch down-tilt. It's really hard for them to get the ice that low to the ground and down-tilt reaches really far. You can beat their tethers by jumping off stage and hitting them out of it with a nair (predict where they're going to air-dodge). Dair pressure is beat by nair out of shield. Down throw tech roll chases work well. If they try to charge out of their invincibility after losing a stock, you can punish with a forward smash (for them to get down and charge takes longer than their 2 second invincibility window). If you get grabbed DI to the side because up-throw is a killer.

 

[SLUGS]

What are some general good stages for kirby?

 

[Unwavering_Canadian]

What are some general good stages for kirby?

In general, your best stages are the ones where you can use your typical approaches (side cutter, and dash attack) to cover the ground part of the stage. The stages with walls that ride up to ledge are also good as it makes your opponent's recoveries predictable. High ceilings are great since you'll usually kill characters off stage and survive via vertical stages. That's likely why Chu's counter stage is Green Hill Zone and I love it too as a Kirby main. Personally, I don't like Fountain since it screws up down throw combo's. Against Zelda and Metaknight you want to kill them faster vertically (they're likely to kill you horizontally) so choose stages like battlefield and smashville. Warioware is a double edged sword, if you're confident in your ability to cover the entire stage then choose it, otherwise you will die at low percents. You typically don't want FD, a lot of characters just have better mobility over you. Skyworld is great if it's tournament allowed since you cover the bottom portion and force opponents off the stage onto the cloud platforms. Dreamland is good in that you can live longer via your recovery than your opponents. The big Yoshi stage isn't fun since it allows camping, and the small one you die on really fast. As for my recommendations (as a general strategy, it'll change depending on the characters your opponent plays) strike to one of battlefield, ps2, smashville, and dreamland. Counterpick to Green Hill and Skyworld, ban both Yoshi's and FD.

 

[Phan7om]

Yoshi's Island Brawl and Lylat are good, go there lol. No one knows how to deal with Cutter Dash cancels. But there arent really any bad stages against Kirby, you can play him however you like, he has quick kill moves, can gimp, and pretty mobile with ledgedashes, sheild drops, and edgecancells.

 

[Jethroo]

<3 killing someone on side of warioware with inhale spit and then flying back.

 

[Unwavering_Canadian]

Yoshi's Island Brawl and Lylat are good, go there lol. No one knows how to deal with Cutter Dash cancels. But there arent really any bad stages against Kirby, you can play him however you like, he has quick kill moves, can gimp, and pretty mobile with ledgedashes, sheild drops, and edgecancells.

Cutter Dash cancels? I think I may be confused on the lingo. Is this an up-b (moved sideways) that is ledge cancelled by perfect spacing? Or is it something else .

Also, I learned recently that kirby powers can be taunt cancelled (run into ledge, taunt, the taunt animation is ledge-cancelled) to get rid of them faster. Just thought I'd throw this out there. It'd be really cool if one of the taunts turned you around, you could taunt cancel to turn around and grab ledge.

 

[Phan7om]

Yep he can taunt cancel, its awesome.

And cutter dash cancels are when you cutter dash into a slope it autocancels into a standing animation where you can just grab or whatever right out of it.

 

[isalegend]

Yep he can taunt cancel, its awesome.

And cutter dash cancels are when you cutter dash into a slope it autocancels into a standing animation where you can just grab or whatever right out of it.

This right here makes Kirby/Ivy matchup one-sided even more, grab solar beam, combo into, taunt cancel, grab again.

But I do think cutter-dash cancels are too rarely used, due to alot of stages that are legal not having slopes, and some times being hard to judge when to do it.

 

[Phan7om]

Yeah only 3 or 4 i think. Its also possible to cd cancel with the stage (a flat stage) but it takes a precise angle and Ive only gotten it to work half the time I try to do it.

 

[Unwavering_Canadian]

Solarbeam is a free hit sometimes (DI and percentage based). Inhale, grab power (sends them up), short hop, watch their DI and bam!

 

[Phan7om]

Thats why its the best one imo, no one uses it in a popular tourney but if a Kirby went to a VGBC streamed tourney and used Solarbeam to its fullest potential (meaning comboing into it the 100s of ways he can combo into it), people would be screaming for that move to be changed or nerfed lol. The first time I saw that Kirby gets an insta solarbeam... I was like, "this is the best one" and I still think it is. Its like a mini final smash that you can combo into pretty easily.

 

[isalegend]

Thats why its the best one imo, no one uses it in a popular tourney but if a Kirby went to a VGBC streamed tourney and used Solarbeam to its fullest potential (meaning comboing into it the 100s of ways he can combo into it), people would be screaming for that move to be changed or nerfed lol. The first time I saw that Kirby gets an insta solarbeam... I was like, "this is the best one" and I still think it is. Its like a mini final smash that you can combo into pretty easily.

It does need to be changed imo, for that reason. I think seed bomb, his down-special would be a fair special for him to get.

 

[SLUGS]

It does need to be changed imo, for that reason. I think seed bomb, his down-special would be a fair special for him to get.

You can only use it once though. So I mean it's kinda fair.

 

[Unwavering_Canadian]

First time I used that power I was disappointed that I couldn't use it to regain health. But a one time charge shot was good enough for me. They should fix the Mewtwo one, where you get confusion rather than shadow ball. It really didn't make much sense to get a side-b move that's garbage instead of the super-fast projectile.

 

[Player -0]

First time I used that power I was disappointed that I couldn't use it to regain health. But a one time charge shot was good enough for me. They should fix the Mewtwo one, where you get confusion rather than shadow ball. It really didn't make much sense to get a side-b move that's garbage instead of the super-fast projectile.

Kirby actually gets M2's Down B. Would shadow ball even help more? M2 could stay close enough to you to punish you for using it via teleport. The only way I could see it is off of a combo.

 

[Phan7om]

Shadow Ball would be the best for that matchup since it would help you control space and cover options. Confusion (side-b) would also be pretty good, better than disable, but not as good as SB. It would count as an air grab as well as reflect, but M2 can reflect too, you could get in a small reflect war.

Edit: Now that I think about it, Kirby getting M2's teleport would probably be the best... but we all know thats never gonna happen lol.

 

[isalegend]

You can only use it once though. So I mean it's kinda fair.

Right after you use it, taunt cancel, grab it again, you have it back instantly.

 

[Vert]

Right after you use it, taunt cancel, grab it again, you have it back instantly.

But still. Depending on the stage and where you are. Quickly taunt canceling and redoing is hard. Especially against a good Ivy player.