KingJigglypuff's Project M Throne Room! 09/08/2019: Fighting Alloy Team Pack Updated

[Notshane]

given if it were possible with Brawl's limitations.

Could be worse, you could have 3DS limitations ( ;-; )

 

[drogoth232]

I'm not the thread owner, but I do have permission from someone else to put this up.

After the bittersweet ending to the development of Smash4 DLC, our beloved leader MarioKing64DS decided to reveal something to the world.

Something so awesome and spectacular, that you might not believe it at first.

Spoiler: you gotta wait for it, man

Spoiler: no, seriously. wait for it

Spoiler: ha! thought it was nothing? think again!

Spoiler: ready?

Spoiler: 3

Spoiler: 2

Spoiler: 1

Spoiler: drumroll please!

King K. Rool has been announced!

MarioKing64DS has silently been working on this ferocious crocodile for quite a while (and I mean quietly, like really quietly), and since it was confirmed he wouldn't be arriving in Smash4, he has been confirmed for Brawl/PM!

Spoiler: wait, there's more

Could this be his CSP? Is this just a random render? Is MK insane for doing this? Are we insane for sticking around with MK?

Who knows, but I sure as hell don't.

The year might be over. But our work has just begun.

 

[GerbilCrab475]

I always suspected this actually. Bagan mentioned long ago that he wasn't going to do K. Rool because somebody else was. I instantly suspected MK64DS. However, Bagan is currently working on K. Rool. This makes things complicated.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Do you guys wanna maybe collab with Bagan? He's already got some stuff going, and his model is more like the source material.

 

[JayJay55]

I say they should stay separate I'd like to see how they both handle K. Rool, besides he already implied that MK64DS was working on this for a while now, I'd like to see what he's done so far.

 

[drogoth232]

I always suspected this actually. Bagan mentioned long ago that he wasn't going to do K. Rool because somebody else was. I instantly suspected MK64DS. However, Bagan is currently working on K. Rool. This makes things complicated.

AFAIK, MK hasn't been in contact with Bagan.

Do you guys wanna maybe collab with Bagan? He's already got some stuff going, and his model is more like the source material.

No plan to do so.

I say they should stay separate I'd like to see how they both handle K. Rool, besides he already implied that MK64DS was working on this for a while now, I'd like to see what he's done so far.

Don't we all?

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I'm not the thread owner, but I do have permission from someone else to put this up.

After the bittersweet ending to the development of Smash4 DLC, our beloved leader MarioKing64DS decided to reveal something to the world.

Something so awesome and spectacular, that you might not believe it at first.

Spoiler: you gotta wait for it, man

Spoiler: no, seriously. wait for it

Spoiler: ha! thought it was nothing? think again!

Spoiler: ready?

Spoiler: 3

Spoiler: 2

Spoiler: 1

Spoiler: drumroll please!

King K. Rool has been announced!

MarioKing64DS has silently been working on this ferocious crocodile for quite a while (and I mean quietly, like really quietly), and since it was confirmed he wouldn't be arriving in Smash4, he has been confirmed for Brawl/PM!

Spoiler: wait, there's more

Could this be his CSP? Is this just a random render? Is MK insane for doing this? Are we insane for sticking around with MK?

Who knows, but I sure as hell don't.

The year might be over. But our work has just begun.

Finally. But If there is one thing that i don't like about it is his head. Especially from the front. That and crown, but mostly head.

 

[drogoth232]

I'm pretty sure the model has been finalized, but no one has a final say other than MK.

 

[Nefnoj]

I'm pretty sure the model has been finalized, but no one has a final say other than MK.

Oof. I totally agree with Bagan on his - even the DK64 model is better. I bet my sweet butt that the current head is a work-in-progress...

 

[PseudoTypical]

Oof. I totally agree with Bagan on his - even the DK64 model is better. I bet my sweet butt that the current head is a work-in-progress...

Yeah. To me, the head is the worst part, but it could also use work in a few more places IMO. That said, I have great faith in the PSA itself.

 

[Nefnoj]

Yeah. To me, the head is the worst part, but it could also use work in a few more places IMO. That said, I have great faith in the PSA itself.

Agreed - I somewhat hope he does the super predictable moveset that everybody seems to love. But whatever MarioKing decides will be beautiful. Especially thinking of the alt costumes.

 

[drogoth232]

Checked the model in 3ds max, head looks fine tbh. Might just be the angle. Point out something specific and I'll see if it's actually a problem on the model.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Checked the model in 3ds max, head looks fine tbh. Might just be the angle. Point out something specific and I'll see if it's actually a problem on the model.

Don't know. It just looks...edgy. Its usually a lot smoother and teeth usually are bigger.

Spoiler: Rare

Spoiler: Nintendo

 

[PseudoTypical]

I suppose my main issue with it (especially with the head) is that it seems like it's inspired by each art design of K Rool, but it doesn't pull off the virtues of either in doing so. It makes it look kinda generic and unfinished as it is, particularly with the current coloring/materials on the rest of the model (though the design there has no issues that I can see).

I'm no model expert, but that's my senses about it, I guess. Maybe other people with more background can offer their thoughts.

 

[Nefnoj]

Checked the model in 3ds max, head looks fine tbh. Might just be the angle. Point out something specific and I'll see if it's actually a problem on the model.

As Bagan pointed out - it doesn't exacttly resemble the source material. To me, the head's way too wide, the mouth area isn't scary/large/schemey enough, the eyes are too far apart and aren't big and bubbly enough, he doesn't have his classic overbite, and the crown is way too small and not all enough.

Spoiler: a bit more analyzed

When one compares the head to the rest of the body of the Rare version (thanks buddy Bagan), you'll notice that the neck and head - rather than appearing as separate parts, seem to extend off the back, unlike MarioKing's version, which seems to separate the body, like Pseudo mentioned. A thing to note is that King K. is indeed a crocodile/alligator. MarioKing's version seems to overly humanize King K., where the others take an alligator/crocodile, overfeed him, and give him the ability to bend forward.

Imagine a lump, give it a nubby tail, then give that tail a maw/snout thing that's sharp with teeth. His "head" really isn't that head-like. Rare, in their design, really likes that template of design. If Banjo starved and shaved, he'd totally look like King K. Rool. Probably.

I hope that didn't come off as too mean or criticizing, you asked me to help, and it's hard to be specific without sounding unkind.

Maybe you're right - maybe it is the camera angles, the renders don't seem to have much lighting, which could make his head seem more round.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

As Bagan pointed out - it doesn't exacttly resemble the source material. To me, the head's way too wide, the mouth area isn't scary/large/schemey enough, the eyes are too far apart and aren't big and bubbly enough, he doesn't have his classic overbite, and the crown is way too small and not all enough.

Spoiler: a bit more analyzed

When one compares the head to the rest of the body of the Rare version (thanks buddy Bagan), you'll notice that the neck and head - rather than appearing as separate parts, seem to extend off the back, unlike MarioKing's version, which seems to separate the body, like Pseudo mentioned. A thing to note is that King K. is indeed a crocodile/alligator. MarioKing's version seems to overly humanize King K., where the others take an alligator/crocodile, overfeed him, and give him the ability to bend forward.

Imagine a lump, give it a nubby tail, then give that tail a maw/snout thing that's sharp with teeth. His "head" really isn't that head-like. Rare, in their design, really likes that template of design. If Banjo starved and shaved, he'd totally look like King K. Rool. Probably.

I hope that didn't come off as too mean or criticizing, you asked me to help, and it's hard to be specific without sounding unkind.

Maybe you're right - maybe it is the camera angles, the renders don't seem to have much lighting, which could make his head seem more round.

You're forgetting about Nintendo's design, which has different neck and is more of a fat reptile than fat crocodile (and they removed his tail for some reasons, leaving him with fat reptillian a** and there's too much of it to be safe for children). This model is clearly more Nintendo than Rare (if it even uses that design for anything).


After thinking about it, its not really that much of a big deal. Its just a model. After mod is released, someone can just rig Brawl or Sm4sh model over default model. If MK64 doesn't wants to fix it, i'll be fine with that.

 

[Nefnoj]

You're forgetting about Nintendo's design, which has different neck.

That's because I don't like it, heheheh. In which case - it's almost a similar design, the point where neck becomes head is still ambiguous.

After thinking about it, its not really that much of a big deal. Its just a model. After mod is released, someone can just rig Brawl or Sm4sh model over default model. If MK64 doesn't wants to fix it, i'll be fine with that.

I was thinking the same, heheh. Like your model, perhaps? Yours almost seems to combine Rare and Nintendo K. Rool.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

That's because I don't like it, heheheh. In which case - it's almost a similar design, the point where neck becomes head is still ambiguous.

I think it does few things right that Rare's design kinda messed up (like limb size and claws). And more people know that design, so, i think this was correct choice. Its probably easier to work with too since his legs aren't too small.

I was thinking the same, heheh. Like your model, perhaps? Yours almost seems to combine Rare and Nintendo K. Rool.

Mine is 90% Rare and 10% Nintendo. But lets leave that out for now.

 

[drogoth232]

As Bagan pointed out - it doesn't exacttly resemble the source material. To me, the head's way too wide, the mouth area isn't scary/large/schemey enough, the eyes are too far apart and aren't big and bubbly enough, he doesn't have his classic overbite, and the crown is way too small and not all enough.

Spoiler: a bit more analyzed

When one compares the head to the rest of the body of the Rare version (thanks buddy Bagan), you'll notice that the neck and head - rather than appearing as separate parts, seem to extend off the back, unlike MarioKing's version, which seems to separate the body, like Pseudo mentioned. A thing to note is that King K. is indeed a crocodile/alligator. MarioKing's version seems to overly humanize King K., where the others take an alligator/crocodile, overfeed him, and give him the ability to bend forward.

Imagine a lump, give it a nubby tail, then give that tail a maw/snout thing that's sharp with teeth. His "head" really isn't that head-like. Rare, in their design, really likes that template of design. If Banjo starved and shaved, he'd totally look like King K. Rool. Probably.

I hope that didn't come off as too mean or criticizing, you asked me to help, and it's hard to be specific without sounding unkind.

Maybe you're right - maybe it is the camera angles, the renders don't seem to have much lighting, which could make his head seem more round.

MK's inspiration was a more modern design for KRool. I've directly compared the Smash4 Model with this one and aside from the fact that the Smash4 one is twice as wide, the only major differences are eye size and the length of the crown.

Neck is also in tact and doesn't has an obvious as a divide between neck and body than you might think.

I've also compared Alvaro's model with MK's (because it keeps getting brought up for some reason), you have to remember they have completely different inspirations. There's also a very important factor: Alvaro's model doesn't account for the range of motion that KRool's arms will go for. In the Smash4 model, there is an obvious divide between belly, chest, and arms which isn't visible in Alvaro's model. Either you'd have to do extremely precise rigging (such as having 0.9/0.1 or 1/0 influence in some places) which looks really bad, or you'd have to go to the other spectrum and split the weight difference across other parts of the body (such as the chest) to move them along with the arm bones.

Then we can talk about the whole bending forward thing that you brought up. Models in smash bros are made in a tpose like the capital letter "T". It means back straight, arms out parallel to the body and with legs planted on the ground. While Alvaro's model is true to the Rare design, it isn't in TPose, and not in a "neutral position". If his model of KRool was rigged, it would always have to be leaning forward, unless it was accounted for in the separate animations. In Modding, and making things in general, it's easier to have models that work for you as opposed to you working for the model (This also includes custom models/rigs/psas. Tposes and their alternatives (such as the 45 degree down, which is also sometimes called a-pose by some people, although that's more useful for FPS games, although it can be argued in other games) are just easier to work with in the context of Smash Bros, there's a reason Smash keeps using them).

While you can edit the boneset to match a tpose after it's been rigged in a different pose (something I've done myself, although to a small extent), it only really works when bones are rotated and not translated.

While I'm not saying that it's a bad model, it's not well fit for the use that the model will be used for.

And as stated earlier, Rare wasn't the biggest inspiration on the model.

That's because I don't like it, heheheh.

Well, geez. Why didn't you say so?

I suppose my main issue with it (especially with the head) is that it seems like it's inspired by each art design of K Rool, but it doesn't pull off the virtues of either in doing so.

Read above "what's it's inspired by"

Yours almost seems to combine Rare and Nintendo K. Rool.

lol

just rig Brawl or Sm4sh model over default model. If MK64 doesn't wants to fix it, i'll be fine with that.

No one in this day and age has the patience to manually tpose trophy models.

All that being said, some minor adjustments are being made.

Damn, this took a while to write.

 

[Wolley2xjd]

I'm not the thread owner, but I do have permission from someone else to put this up.

After the bittersweet ending to the development of Smash4 DLC, our beloved leader MarioKing64DS decided to reveal something to the world.

Something so awesome and spectacular, that you might not believe it at first.

Spoiler: you gotta wait for it, man

Spoiler: no, seriously. wait for it

Spoiler: ha! thought it was nothing? think again!

Spoiler: ready?

Spoiler: 3

Spoiler: 2

Spoiler: 1

Spoiler: drumroll please!

King K. Rool has been announced!

MarioKing64DS has silently been working on this ferocious crocodile for quite a while (and I mean quietly, like really quietly), and since it was confirmed he wouldn't be arriving in Smash4, he has been confirmed for Brawl/PM!

Spoiler: wait, there's more

Could this be his CSP? Is this just a random render? Is MK insane for doing this? Are we insane for sticking around with MK?

Who knows, but I sure as hell don't.

The year might be over. But our work has just begun.

Cool, two kings for the price of one, my problem with the model is that his "bad eye" need to be bigger and his scales are too dark, the belly color is fine though, are you planing to me base his alts after other games he been in?

 

[PseudoTypical]

I think your points are sensible and they definitely put things into perspective, particularly what you said about the style inspiration. Something about the head still looks intuitively wrong, though, so maybe you or MK could toy around with it a little. After that, I think all that needs to be done are what Wolley said.

(On a side-note, if you guys end up doing alt models for this too, I would really love to see a Rare-styled one...)

 

[drogoth232]

perspective, particularly what you said about the style inspiration. Something about the head still looks intuitively wrong, though, so maybe you or MK could toy around with it a little. After that, I think all that needs to be done are what Wolley said.

I compared the head with the smash4 model. They're quite similar. We don't want to risk adding more polygons in case he goes over the facepoint limit.

I brought up the eyes last night when comparing the models and MK confirmed they won't be changed.

Here were some of the changes he made last night, particularly with the teeth and fixing up the mouth a bit. Soem changes to his neck were made along with some vert movement in the head.

Spoiler

 

[Draco_The]

How far is K. Rool in development?

 

[drogoth232]

How far is K. Rool in development?

That's the best part.

We don't even know

 

[Draco_The]

That's the best part.

We don't even know

 

[PseudoTypical]

Here were some of the changes he made last night, particularly with the teeth and fixing up the mouth a bit. Soem changes to his neck were made along with some vert movement in the head.

Spoiler

I think that's a definite improvement. With textures/materials edited, it should be just fine IMO.

 

[Nefnoj]

It's frankly hard for me to say, I want to see him in an environment with lighting.

 

[KingJigglypuff]

Not King K. Rool related, but rather Smash Wii U Charizard related.

Thanks to some help from TheShyGuy, I can now properly port the Smash 3DS animations for use with the Mini PSA. The preview also shows my current progress on the Smash Wii U model itself.

Spoiler

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I compared the head with the smash4 model. They're quite similar. We don't want to risk adding more polygons in case he goes over the facepoint limit.

I brought up the eyes last night when comparing the models and MK confirmed they won't be changed.

Here were some of the changes he made last night, particularly with the teeth and fixing up the mouth a bit. Soem changes to his neck were made along with some vert movement in the head.

Spoiler

Now this is more K. Rool as it should have been.

Not King K. Rool related, but rather Smash Wii U Charizard related.

Thanks to some help from TheShyGuy, I can now properly port the Smash 3DS animations for use with the Mini PSA. The preview also shows my current progress on the Smash Wii U model itself.

Spoiler

F*** yeah! Will this be Brawl/PM Charizard with minor changes or SSB4 'Zard? Or all of those?
SSB4 newcommers ports when?

 

[KingJigglypuff]

F*** yeah! Will this be Brawl/PM Charizard with minor changes or SSB4 'Zard? Or all of those?

The Brawl version will be straight up Smash Wii U Charizard. The PM version will be the same, except edited for use in PM. There will also be two PM versions. One with Smash Wii U Specials and one with PM specials.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

The Brawl version will be straight up Smash Wii U Charizard. The PM version will be the same, except edited for use in PM. There will also be two PM versions. One with Smash Wii U Specials and one with PM specials.

Ok then. Now i'm not sure which one i should use.

 

[lsmash]

Will there be something for Solo Charizard, too? Or only for the Brawl/PM mini-PSA?
Also, is the method to port Smash 3ds animations available to the public? Just wondering...

 

[drogoth232]

Also, is the method to port Smash 3ds animations available to the public? Just wondering...

Yes, it is.
http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=75576.new#new

 

[lsmash]

Thanks! Will check it later

 

[KingJigglypuff]

Will there be something for Solo Charizard, too? Or only for the Brawl/PM mini-PSA?

I'm actually considering completely re-coding Solo Charizard at some point in time, so it's likely my Smash Wii U still will be the basis for Solo Charizard if I get to it.

 

[PseudoTypical]

To be clear, is K Rool being developed for PM? I know Waluigi's PM moveset was put on hold, so I'm curious.

 

[drogoth232]

To be clear, is K Rool being developed for PM? I know Waluigi's PM moveset was put on hold, so I'm curious.

Both movesets are being made for both Brawl and Project M.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Both movesets are being made for both Brawl and Project M.

Good, but wasn't Waa delayed or something due to the recent PMDT events? I swore that was a thing (even though I didn't want it to be).

EDIT: KJP had said:

The Project M version of Waluigi will basically be pushed aside and possibly released at a later date.

 

[drogoth232]

Good, but wasn't Waa delayed or something due to the recent PMDT events? I swore that was a thing (even though I didn't want it to be).

Delayed, that's all. PM Waluigi will still be released.

 

[PseudoTypical]

KJP... is it possible for you to get more of those SSB4 animations for other characters? I'm trying to help with a Mega Man revamp eventually and that would make things tons easier.