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Social King K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: This...Is Our Finest Hour!

Draugen

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Then why didn't Sakurai use the Paon design for the costume?
Well, I can't say for sure (maybe only him can). Its really weird to see the trophy and the mii costume with different designs.
As someone here already said (can't remember who), the Paon design seems more "smashy" to me. It really gives the feeling of a slow and powerful fighters. And judging even by his trophy pose, he seems almost ready to fight. I really enjoy that trophy.
 
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Oracle_Summon

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Well, I can't say for sure (maybe only him can). Its really weird to see the trophy and the mii costume with different designs.
As someone here already said (can't remember who), the Paon design seems more "smashy" to me. It really gives the feeling of a slow and powerful fighters. And judging even by his trophy pose, he seems almost ready to fight. I really enjoy that trophy.
I believe Sakurai chose that costume since it is the one that most associate King K. Rool with.
 

StormC

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Well, I can't say for sure (maybe only him can). Its really weird to see the trophy and the mii costume with different designs.
As someone here already said (can't remember who), the Paon design seems more "smashy" to me. It really gives the feeling of a slow and powerful fighters. And judging even by his trophy pose, he seems almost ready to fight. I really enjoy that trophy.
The Rare design is the classic look from the multimillion selling games people all around the world played.

The Paon design is from semi-obscure spin-offs released during the franchise's unstable post-Rare pre-Retro era.

The K. Rool Smash trophy is just a reused model from the Brawl era, he wasn't going to redesign a character from scratch for a trophy of a character that hadn't appeared since 2008. What he did do was when faced with selling the character in costume form, he went with the design most people actually like and recognize. In a world where this is a playable Smash fighter:



I really cannot imagine K. Rool's classic design not fitting in the game's style.
 

Draugen

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The Rare design is the classic look from the multimillion selling games people all around the world played.

The Paon design is from semi-obscure spin-offs released during the franchise's unstable post-Rare pre-Retro era.

The K. Rool Smash trophy is just a reused model from the Brawl era, he wasn't going to redesign a character from scratch for a trophy of a character that hadn't appeared since 2008. What he did do was when faced with selling the character in costume form, he went with the design most people actually like and recognize. In a world where this is a playable Smash fighter:



I really cannot imagine K. Rool's classic design not fitting in the game's style.
Well, you are right about Ridley. I confess that at first he really looked a bit off to me. But I got used to him.

I dont think that I'm right, its just my unpopular opinion. I like all of his designs (perhaps not so much the one from DKC 3). But then I cant see him being all that trickery and full of gadgets and gimmicks.
 

Marcello691

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The discussion got a touch heated today it seems, but I cant help but say I can agree with both sides. K.Rool's Mii costume atleast let us know that Sakurai had some understanding that the Kroc had way more popularity then he thought, but at the same time, the DK franchise has suffered so much injustice in the smash series as a whole. What I hate is people almost always act as if your not allowed to critique any of Sakurai's moves. Its always "Your asking for way too much, dont you realize how much he puts into these games? He almost kills himself with overtime and stress." Now I can speak for the stress part necessarily, I can understand its a huge game to undertake, but honestly, I never asked this guy to put himself on the brink of death for me. If he needs longer on the game to make it perfect, I really dont mind if they need to push back the release date a few months or so.

Really the point is, Sakurai seems to have strong bais when it comes to series and even characters. I dont know if its only me, but DK's Up special and Side Special, while not bad in any regular means, have always upset me. His side B could be rolling a barrel across the ground like in his old Arcade games, or up B could be getting in a launch barrel and being shot out in a ball of gorilla fury. I know he has reasons for them, and maybe to him it feels wrong to change such an iconic moveset up, but those two B specials really have never had anything to do with DK in any of his games.

I am also really upset that none of the Animal Buddies have appeared as an assist trophy, or hell even their own item. Just imagine, a box with the animal silhouette appears, you jump on it, and out pops Rambi, or Squawks, or Squitter. Your character jumps on them and for a short amount of time you ride them like you would in the game.

I'de really like to imagine that Ultimate would do for the DK series what it did for Metroid and Ridley. Metroid may not be the most consistently made nintendo game, but it sits nicely with 3 characters, and I still feel that DK games come out enough where they deserve at least 3 to 4 reps. The hardest part is feeling like we can get both, just because the newcomers could be such a small amount, Sakurai might not want to dedicate two characters to one series. It honestly does sometimes have me worried that he might make Dixie an Echo despite the fact she shouldn't be. Considering it took 4 games for Ganondorf to use his sword, and he still isint that great of a representative of what he is like in his game, it really hampers my dreams of getting both K.rool and at least semi cloned Dixie.
You took the words out of my mouth!
I talked with my brother about potential dk special move changes and "barrel toss" was what we came up with for side B!
I still believe that in regards how little we got from the dk series in smash is because of Nintendo or Sakurai doesn't like what rare created and they don't want western developed stuff to be in smash (maybe that has changed this time because Krystal is an assist trophy and was also created by rare).
People always say that k.rool isn't in the game because of relevance, but let's be honest, Diddy, Dixie and K.rool should have been in smash bros melee when mario and link got all their important characters as DK was very very very big at that time, in fact it was rivaling the zelda series in terms of sales!
Now everyone acts like dk is a niche franchise and says that the representation with dk and diddy only is enough but it's not!
Even dead series like mother and f-zero have so much more representation (assist trophies, stages that are based on actual places from their games, wide and good variety of music).
And I'm sure that Sakurai also knows that dk is not a sub series of mario, hence dk has it own emblem and three pieces of music from the country series (jungle hijinxs, k.rool ship deck, bramble blast). DKC has one of the best soundtracks in video games so why doesn't Sakurai put some good tracks in smash?! I don't get it.
I want both Dixie kong and k.rool in smash ultimate, for me personally the game wouldn't feel complete without one of them.
 
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Luigi player

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I don't think I care about claws on his hands. I always thought he never had them before Paon but he does on his DK 64 ingame model (not the artwork though interestingly), so I'm fine with either way.

@Opossum
Yeah it's very possible that mostly the Smash fanbase likes him and outside of Smash more people like others..
 

SuperiorYoshi87

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I can see him having claws, I mean his 64 model has claws despite his render not having them which is interesting...

Honestly his N64 model is perfect all they need to do is draw from that for his design.. and update it
 

CannonStreak

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I just had a thought: Note that it involves Waluigi, and I know some people may not like talking about this, so bear with me. The thing is, Waluigi is nowadays a popular character, but regardless, Sakurai added him as an assist trophy in this game, again. That caused lots of fans to be mad, as you know. Now...

https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2018...er-smash-bros-ultimate-says-reggie-fils-aime/

At the time this was posted, it was said Sakurai "will be aware of Waluigi's support". Assuming that he wasn't aware of it before, that got me thinking: If Waluigi did get his support heard before Ultimate's development was begun, I bet that Sakurai may have had a reason to add him in as a playable character. With all his popularity and what not.

Now, back to K. Rool. His popularity got him in as a Mii Costume in Smash Bros 4 via DLC, and I assume he couldn't be included as a playable character because the characters were already decided, based on what was said here.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...tes_might_not_have_been_used_for_smash_4s_dlc

But there is still a good chance he may be in the base game of Ultimate this time, due to his popularity, even with that relevancy issue.

My point is this: Waluigi's support was apparently heard too late, but K. Rool's was heard before this game was in development. Thing is, if Waluigi could have been playable in Ultimate if his support was heard by Sakurai (assuming that it wasn't heard before), do you guys think K. Rool, whose support was heard during Smash 4's DLC days and got him a Mii costume in that game (but wasn't a playable character due to characters already being decided and what not), may have a chance of being included as a playable character this time in Ultimate now that Sakurai has likely heard his support before he was working on this game, if you know what I mean by all this?

Just a thought. What do you guys think of this?
 

IMainKingKRool

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I think K. Rool's always been a popular pick, he just wasn't really clamored for until post-Brawl since Diddy was more important to the series - if we were gonna get a DK newcomer, it had to be Diddy. Support for K. Rool has been snowballing since then, and DK as a series being somewhat neglected in Wii U/3DS was all the more reason to call for his inclusion. Same idea with Waluigi, it didn't make sense to get him in when we didn't even have Wario. Then once Wario dropped into Brawl, people called for Waluigi.
The two characters have been very popular for a long time. I don't think Waluigi was excluded because Sakurai didn't know he was popular, I really think he's decided the character couldn't bring anything interesting to the table (or be similar enough to anyone else to become an echo) and so left him as an assist trophy so his fans have at least something. Even in Smash 4 speculation days Sakurai acknowledged Waluigi's popularity when his assist was revealed to be returning in a Pic of the Day, said something like "just because you try hard doesn't mean you'll get in". I bet if Waluigi wasn't as popular as he is they wouldn't have shown off his return to assist-hood once again in Ultimate as early as they did, either, it really felt to me like they were trying to let us down gently.

The fact that K. Rool hasn't been seen as a non-playable role could mean a couple things. Either he's playable and they're waiting to announce him after the anticipation reaches a boiling point so we blow our tops with hype, ooooor he's not playable and they're working on a stage boss or something with him involved. I really do think the character is gonna get some kind of special treatment this time around, it's just a matter of whether Sakurai thinks he has as much potential for a playable role as we think he does.
 
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BKupa666

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I think Waluigi could be in a similar boat in terms of his popularity only really exploding after the design document was done. In a way he got screwed by the ballot being marketed as a source for DLC rather than Ultimate characters, resulting in Waluigi's AT being a huge deterrent against him getting more votes. Leading up to E3, his support was steadily growing on account of there not being too many major characters left and him being far more personable than most other candidates, especially from Mario.

I know he has legitimate fans, but it did also feel as though E3 marked the memes for him becoming really overwhelming. Like people just started leaning HARD on the picture of his plushie lying in the dirt, or anime photos of him crying. I've argued before that the level of backlash his AT reveal got this time is unlike anything we've previously seen for a Smash disconfirmation...the few other times people have lashed out against a character exclusion this loudly have all been post-release (like Ridley). The equivalent to me would've been if they had disconfirmed Sonic before Brawl came out; in fact, Sonic being added late into Brawl is speculated to have happened to prevent huge backlash. I actually think Waluigi is the only disconfirmed character with a chance at having his fate reversed and becoming DLC; it's him or someone like Banjo in terms of huge names to sell a new batch.

K. Rool is comparable because he was entirely in Diddy's shadow going into Brawl, and then had decent but not super noticeable support (and no Returns appearance as a crutch) in early 2012 when Wii U's design doc was finished. Not to toot our own horns, but the first Kremling Kutthroat thread came out later that summer, and I started the Twitter later in 2014. Both, I would point to as having grown the fanbase to the point where it could really make a dent in DLC. And we did, though because the ballot was never intended to provide DLC newcomers, we ended up with the costume for our efforts. And now here we are, with Ultimate as the first full game where K. Rool was a known quantity in the leadup.

Detractors love to say "Those K. Rool fans have called him a shoo-in every game until now and he hasn't been in, so they'll be wrong again now!" Accusations that fans are calling favorite characters "shoo-ins" get exaggerated for the sake of smears, but yeah, fans including myself probably were too confident with incomplete information for Wii U. In hindsight, it was different terrain back then, and though K. Rool still might not happen now, it would be for different reasons this time IMO. Disinterest or a perceived lack of moveset potential or series importance, combined with precious muhrelevance, maybe, but definitely not that he's not even on the radar to begin with.
 
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CannonStreak

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I think K. Rool's always been a popular pick, he just wasn't really clamored for until post-Brawl since Diddy was more important to the series - if we were gonna get a DK newcomer, it had to be Diddy. Support for K. Rool has been snowballing since then, and DK as a series being somewhat neglected in Wii U/3DS was all the more reason to call for his inclusion. Same idea with Waluigi, it didn't make sense to get him in when we didn't even have Wario. Then once Wario dropped into Brawl, people called for Waluigi.
The two characters have been very popular for a long time. I don't think Waluigi was excluded because Sakurai didn't know he was popular, I really think he's decided the character couldn't bring anything interesting to the table and so left him as an assist trophy so his fans have at least something. I bet if Waluigi wasn't as popular as he is they wouldn't have shown his assist off as early as they did, it really felt to me like they were trying to let us down gently.

The fact that K. Rool hasn't been seen as a non-playable role could mean a couple things. Either he's playable and they're waiting to announce him after the anticipation reaches a boiling point so we blow our tops with hype, ooooor he's not playable and they're working on a stage boss or something with him involved. I really do think the character is gonna get some kind of special treatment this time around, it's just a matter of whether Sakurai thinks he has as much potential for a playable role as we think he does.
I didn't say Waluigi was excluded solely because of Sakurai not knowing of his popularity. I may have forgotten to add that there were other reasons why he was not in, which you may have said. Just wanted to point that out. But it may seem that if Waluigi wasn't included because he did not have much potential for whatever reason, that may be a difference between him and K. Rool, who does have potential. Not saying Waluigi didn't have potential, just probably not as much as K. Rool. I could be wrong.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I really don't see how Waluigi's fan backlash is a positive thing

If that's the case maybe we should ALL whine and scream and send death threats if we don't get our way

You shouldn't encourage bad behaviour
 
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CannonStreak

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I really don't see how Waluigi's fan backlash is a positive thing

If that's the case maybe we should ALL whine and scream and send death threats if we don't get our way
I don't think I said it was a good thing. I just said they got mad. I didn't mention them sending death threats or whining and screaming. I am sure you know we aren't like that, are we, guys?
 

StormC

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I actually think if K. Rool is not a playable character he isn't going to be an AT or boss or anything. Call it a gut feeling, but I feel it's all or nothing.
 

Draugen

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I don't think I said it was a good thing. I just said they got mad. I didn't mention them sending death threats or whining and screaming. I am sure you know we aren't like that, are we, guys?
Well, we kinda should be, shouldn't we? We are a pirate krew, the Kremlins Kutthroats! Death threats and screaming should be our thing!

Jokes aside, it really seems that the King has a lot going this time.
 

cothero

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"- K Rool was another very popular character worldwide, though less so in Japan than other regions."

fake. we know K. Rool is really popular in Japan :glare: also some of the things this guy "knows" seem very suspicious.
Exactly. Although he's not the pretty boy anime type character, he's VERY popular in Japan too.
 
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TCT~Phantom

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Honestly as every day goes by I look at what we know about Ultimate and I try to wrestle with scenarios where K Rool does not make it in. I am pretty confident in him right now, easily more likely than not in the game but we dont know.
 

GravelerChamp60

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Waluigi is a different story because his popularity is much more divided and broken into parts when you have many other candidates from that same franchise having vocal support. Aside from Waluigi you have huge support groups for Geno, Captain Toad, Paper Mario, and Daisy and that was reflected in the Smash ballot. On top of that Waluigi was an AT during Smash 4 so that slashed a lot of support for him during the Smash ballot.

On the contrary with K. Rool and Dixie Kong they are two of the most requested characters, but whether they affect each other's chances of being in the game it has been more masked and both groups are lot less divided than the Mario franchise.
 
D

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Time to dissapear into the shadows. I hope King K. Rool is announced.

And will enter Smash.

Hope we get announcement maybe in September or October.
 

BridgesWithTurtles

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Honestly, I think if K. Rool does get in, his moveset's going to be very different from how most fans seem to imagine it. I don't know in what way that would be, but I have a lot of doubt it'd be the obvious crown throw/blunderbuss/copter pack/ground pound that is so often thrown around. Sakurai usually comes up with some crazy unexpected but clever ways to portray characters in Smash that most people don't see coming. I'd love to see him use the traditional fan-preferred moveset, but I just have the feeling he'd find a way to surprise all of us, for better or worse.

I'm cool with him having claws, whether or not he uses them to attack with, but I like to think he'd only use them in one or two moves. I picture K. Rool as less of a primal slasher/biter and more of a dirty fighter who uses moves like fake-out sucker punches, trip kicks, and swipes with his cape. I'd like to see them use more of the "king" and "cruel" aspects of his character, rather than play up the fact that he's technically a crocodile.
 

StormC

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Honestly, I think if K. Rool does get in, his moveset's going to be very different from how most fans seem to imagine it. I don't know in what way that would be, but I have a lot of doubt it'd be the obvious crown throw/blunderbuss/copter pack/ground pound that is so often thrown around. Sakurai usually comes up with some crazy unexpected but clever ways to portray characters in Smash that most people don't see coming. I'd love to see him use the traditional fan-preferred moveset, but I just have the feeling he'd find a way to surprise all of us, for better or worse.
The only thing I can think of that would genuinely surprise me is if he kept the moveset 100% tied to the blunderbuss and based the majority on it.

If anything his options are like Diddy's where they're really obvious. Sure enough, Diddy used his peanut popguns and rocketbarrel boost for his specials. Ridley's moveset is nothing surprising either.
 
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BridgesWithTurtles

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The only thing I can think of that would genuinely surprise me is if he kept the moveset 100% tied to the blunderbuss and based the majority on it.

If anything his options are like Diddy's where they're really obvious. Sure enough, Diddy used his peanut popguns and rocketbarrel boost for his specials. Ridley's moveset is nothing surprising either.
The most likely scenario, in my opinion, would be that K. Rool uses the crown throw and maybe one of the other usual speculated moves (probably the blunderbuss), but the rest is either completely made up or loosely inspired by some aspect of the character that Sakurai latches onto and builds off of (much like Diddy himself, with the banana toss and Monkey Flip just being made-up moves that fit the character, but aren't really pulled from any part of his usual toolkit).

I just really doubt K. Rool would be 1:1 with what everyone expects. There'd be some deviation from the consensus that nobody sees coming, and we're just not able to predict it because we're not thinking the way that Sakurai thinks when designing movesets.
 

SuperiorYoshi87

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The most likely scenario, in my opinion, would be that K. Rool uses the crown throw and maybe one of the other usual speculated moves (probably the blunderbuss), but the rest is either completely made up or loosely inspired by some aspect of the character that Sakurai latches onto and builds off of (much like Diddy himself, with the banana toss and Monkey Flip just being made-up moves that fit the character, but aren't really pulled from any part of his usual toolkit).

I just really doubt K. Rool would be 1:1 with what everyone expects. There'd be some deviation from the consensus that nobody sees coming, and we're just not able to predict it because we're not thinking the way that Sakurai thinks when designing movesets.
I agree with this a lot, I feel like K. Rool will have a mish mash of actual move's from his game appearances and odd original moves that "fit" his character..I can see him being portrayed as more of a bruiser than we think. In fact i can see his Blunderbuss being completely omitted and him having a moveset pimarily taken from his original appearance with made up stuff thrown in.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I've never really liked the crown special. I know it's iconic to the first game but I always feel it's implemented weird.

Like, he doesn't just throw his crown through the air like a boomerang and it comes back, he rolls it along the ground and it rolls back.
 

StormC

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I've never really liked the crown special. I know it's iconic to the first game but I always feel it's implemented weird.

Like, he doesn't just throw his crown through the air like a boomerang and it comes back, he rolls it along the ground and it rolls back.
Are you talking about the original game? Because he never rolls it along the ground in that.

 

PsychoIncarnate

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Are you talking about the original game? Because he never rolls it along the ground in that.

I guess you're right. It always looked like it was closer to the ground to me.
 

Nap_

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If K. Rool throws his crown, what happens if he wears the pirate suit. I prefer no crown launch than no Kaptain skin.
 

Draugen

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If K. Rool throws his crown, what happens if he wears the pirate suit. I prefer no crown launch than no Kaptain skin.
Maybe he can throw his Kaptain's hat? That would be weird, yeah. But I agree with you. I prefer an alt with the Kaptain outfit too.
 

AIM0001

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Honestly, I think if K. Rool does get in, his moveset's going to be very different from how most fans seem to imagine it. I don't know in what way that would be, but I have a lot of doubt it'd be the obvious crown throw/blunderbuss/copter pack/ground pound that is so often thrown around. Sakurai usually comes up with some crazy unexpected but clever ways to portray characters in Smash that most people don't see coming. I'd love to see him use the traditional fan-preferred moveset, but I just have the feeling he'd find a way to surprise all of us, for better or worse.

I'm cool with him having claws, whether or not he uses them to attack with, but I like to think he'd only use them in one or two moves. I picture K. Rool as less of a primal slasher/biter and more of a dirty fighter who uses moves like fake-out sucker punches, trip kicks, and swipes with his cape. I'd like to see them use more of the "king" and "cruel" aspects of his character, rather than play up the fact that he's technically a crocodile.
I agree with both parts of your post. Sakurai is very creative when it comes to move sets. Like when Pac-Man came out and I first seen his grab was a reference to Galagia. I would have never thought of doing that. To your second point, yes I think people are too caught up with the claw attacks stuff. Even though he is a crocodile, he’s not some primal beast. He’s smart and he fights dirty with all of his fancy gadgets. Sure he can be a heavy hitter. The best example would be his DKC1 fights when he ran threw the stage and then after the fake out defeat his hopped around and went ape on the Kong’s haha.
 

TheTreasonousSnowmad

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Honestly, I think if K. Rool does get in, his moveset's going to be very different from how most fans seem to imagine it. I don't know in what way that would be, but I have a lot of doubt it'd be the obvious crown throw/blunderbuss/copter pack/ground pound that is so often thrown around. Sakurai usually comes up with some crazy unexpected but clever ways to portray characters in Smash that most people don't see coming. I'd love to see him use the traditional fan-preferred moveset, but I just have the feeling he'd find a way to surprise all of us, for better or worse.

I'm cool with him having claws, whether or not he uses them to attack with, but I like to think he'd only use them in one or two moves. I picture K. Rool as less of a primal slasher/biter and more of a dirty fighter who uses moves like fake-out sucker punches, trip kicks, and swipes with his cape. I'd like to see them use more of the "king" and "cruel" aspects of his character, rather than play up the fact that he's technically a crocodile.
I've always hated the idea of the ground pound, frankly. I think a bellyflop from Donkey Kong Land would be a suitable down air, but something more unique should be his down special, like the Klaptrap barrel or a steel keg shield that absorbs electricity and becomes a hazard. All in all though, I think his moveset will be fairly predictable, like most characters'. Even Ridley's is basically just Bagan's build with some flashy modifications made like the fireballs bouncing.

Also, I want top hat K. Rool now.
 

Machete

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Considering how Sakurai designs movesets, and the King's ability to adapt to any game he is in by changing his appearance and his abilities, I think this could be fairly close to what we'll see
https://i.imgur.com/0V0OjuC.png
 
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IMainKingKRool

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NYEH_HEH_HEH
Considering how Sakurai designs movesets, and the King's ability to adapt to any game he is in by changing his appearance and his abilities, I think this could be fairly close to what we'll see
There's no way it'd happen and it probably shouldn't happen but it would be hilarious if K. Rool got the Kirby treatment and had a persona modeled after every fighter.
 
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Gobliiin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
154
This is why he wasn't conceivable for the last game's dlc and why we shouldn't expect too many new comers. The roster is actually double in size as K. Rool has kostumes for every character.
 
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SuperiorYoshi87

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 11, 2014
Messages
1,459
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New Jersey
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AVENGERxTHOR
If there's one thing I tried to emphasize on my ballot votes it was how unique K. Rools moveset potential could be and I'm sure I wasn't alone.. this is why I think he's unlikely as DLC and more likely in the base roster because he has such a huge move pool to pull from his appearances. There's so many possibilities... that's one of the things I hope will have won Sakurai over on K. Rool just how unique a fighter he could build. He could go the standard bruiser route or a devious trap character or a ranged heavy fighter.. theres a lot of great option's..
 

Oracle_Summon

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
5,059
It seems the information drought is getting to people and they are already calling for deconfirmation, regardless that no evidence to suggest such exists.

Just have patience.
 
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