King DeDeDe Matchup Export~

[M.C. Pee-Pants]

isnt castle siege alsoa good ddd stage two since on the second part of the stage he can just cg u to death to the side? Well thats the only reason I could see this as a ok stage for him

 

[Choice]

I think castle is pretty good for d3, but you can just not fight d3 on the bottom level to avoid the walk off on the 2nd part. I think the real issue is the 3rd transformation. Its FD but its also trying to screw you over by tilting.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Upthrow/Bthrow Dedede.

 

[Choice]

or fthrow him off stage. d3 is worse off stage than he is in the air.

 

[Monkley6]

Just saying that this seems like a pretty steady conversation, keep it up

 

[Seagull Joe]

I played this matchup today with the best D3 (Coney). I lost set 1-2, but all close games...

Wolf might actually be even in this matchup on BF with platform camping+Dairs. Do not go off what I say though.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Wolf outruns and outzones DDD. You just get punished stupidly hard if you mess up. Old news!

 

[o-Serin-o]

If you wanna win this matchup, just go MK.

But if you wanna have nuts and go for it, space REALLY well. Basically.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Well Ether, that's not true because D3's bair has significantly higher priority then ours lol. So we don't wanna challenge it unless we have too.

 

[castorpollux]

Well Ether, that's not true because D3's bair has significantly higher priority then ours lol. So we don't wanna challenge it unless we have too.

it's also a lot more punishable than ours

 

[o-Serin-o]

Priority doesn't exist in the air though.

And D3's bair isn't hard to punish if played correctly.

 

[castorpollux]

Fair OOS whenever D3 misses a bair. If the d3 is in the air, that is a good sign to be honest

 

[Dark 3nergy]

fthrow him off stage

if you can do this to DDD please do. I think DDD can tech your dthrow so please dont try it lol

remember that dthrow>usmash thing i mentioned?

heres what it looks like

 

[Laem]

oh wow aint seen that one before
looks like it can be airdodged tho, but not something you'd see coming

 

[Dark 3nergy]

we're in the process of testing it now

 

[castorpollux]

we're in the process of testing it now

100% sure you can shine it too

 

[Choice]

Well Ether, that's not true because D3's bair has significantly higher priority then ours lol. So we don't wanna challenge it unless we have too.

well his bair might "win" vs ours, but fair and shine beat his bair easily.

 

[Deleted member]

So, are we ready to slap down a ratio for this MU?

What do you guys think?

 

[Choice]

i think the numbers dont matter.

 

[Ishiey]

I agree with Choice.

But unfortunately, at this stage in the metagame, you kinda "have" to put numbers on things just to give people a general idea. Don't worry though, I'll be putting a general summary in the OP as well when I have the time to update, which... might be a while because exams are coming up really fast :x but probably sometime during the second half of this week, at least for D3.

 

[Laem]

just make it 6-4 dedede's favor
its definitely not that easy for him

 

[Choice]

yea 6-4. i've had d3 mains tell me that if it wasnt for the cg they feel like this mu would be hell, lol.

 

[_Kain_]

D3 doesn't really have anything game breaking on Wolf other than the CG. Without it he wouldn't be able to really get us in a bad position offstage, or rack up easy percent. Everything else he has wolf has an answer too. I agree with 6-4

 

[Seagull Joe]

I versed Coney today again for 3 hours. D3 vs Wolf is fun. We both agreed it was 40-60 D3's favor. Coney is really smart about versing Wolf = /

The best way of spacing was to stay in the middle with retreat fair>dtilt for perfect spacing. It kept him at bay because it kept me out of grab range.

 

[Goldenadept]

i did that against a D3 on wifi today, worked really well at not letting D3 close, but jeez, mess up once and you're looking at a world of hurt @_@ i beat him though :3 *is proud*

 

[Choice]

i think instead of being in the middle it better to stay such that there only 1/4 of the stage behind you. shorter cgs.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think it's +3 in DDD's favor now. During the beginning of the match it may look like you can keep up with him for quite a while until you realize that you can't actually beat him. He has 3 stocks time to catch up with you again, you have to stay ahead of him for 3 full stocks.

That's not happening.

 

[Laem]

Solid +2 imo.

 

[Deleted member]

It really wasn't necessary to bump this.

Post in the Matchup center if you want a new export.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

How about no? This thread still contains a lot of relevant content so there's no need to make a new one. It's not like this thread is terribly old either and in case you don't realize yet this is one of our key match-ups. There's no reason for any Wolf player to not know how to deal with it as well as possible.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm just going by the way Ish wants things organized for the matchup center. If this is to be discussed again, the OP needs to be updated.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Ish is horrible at organizing. -3 seems right. That chart needs to be updated.

 

[Ishiey]

I am horrible at organizing. Or more like, just really busy with other things in life so I'm screwing other things up.

You can bump old MU discussions if you feel there's something relevant to be discussed. Now that there's the Unity Ruleset, all forms of infinites are legal. That means one grab from D3 = death from just about anywhere on stage (smallstep > ledge infinite > dtilt, smallstep > (buffered pivot grab infinite) > buffered hyphen usmash). That + how good he is at punishing our options around the ledge make it a solid -3, even if we can technically avoid the grab and everything there's just way too much on the line. Winnable, but holy **** you must be amazing if you can beat a top D3 that's playing to win.

 

[Ojih~Sama]

would frigate be a proper cp to d3?

im thinking frigate is pretty small, and when it flips to the uneven stage it could help throw off the timing of his cg. would it also make it harder for d3 to recover if he is caught on the right side of the stage with no ledge if he is forced to up-b?

the only thing i see bad about frigate would be if he catches wolf on the platform that rises and falls and cg infinites there

 

[xDD-Master]

im thinking frigate is pretty small, and when it flips to the uneven stage it could help throw off the timing of his cg

He can easily infinite you there lol. Like really EASILY.
YI is also pretty easy to infinite on. LC too.
Every Map with Slopes makes infiniting with DDD VERY easy.
It's more the platform Layout, that could make getting grabs really hard. I think thats what you should focuse on.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I feel like LC, CS and PS1 are all starters that give us some time-out options against DDD. If it comes to striking I'd try to get rid of FD, YI and SV first. Timing him out is probably the safest, least risky way to beat him and our only hope to legit stand a chance in this match-up.

 

[xDD-Master]

I feel like LC, CS and PS1 are all starters that give us some time-out options against DDD. If it comes to striking I'd try to get rid of FD, YI and SV first. Timing him out is probably the safest, least risky way to beat him and our only hope to legit stand a chance in this match-up.

But running away 8 Minutes from DDD... When I fought Sic @ SaS2, he did this with Wario, I was too slow to catch up with DDD... was very hard. Maybe it could work too with Wolf, even though I think it's pretty tough, to do it consistently :/
Dunno.

 

[Mister_T_Bag]

In my experience, a good strategy isn't necessarily relying on well-spaced fairs, bairs and dairs on platforms. While keeping the mentality of "not getting grabbed" throughout the entire match, try getting behind him or even in front of him and get the grab. Mix this in with your aerial spacing game along with baiting his grab and punishing it with a grab of your own and you'd be surprised on your performance with this MU. I spam lasers to get him to both move and rack a little damage. I then dance around him using fairs, bairs and spot dodges and go in for the grab. Definitely use caution when spot dodging though. If you get too nervous you can jump OoS or retreat fair. This strategy typically becomes successful when you mix it up enough so that you become difficult to predict.