KGD - The Kewkky Thread! - Kirby's Wasteland: Dead Social

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Yeah that was the same with my ship. Many of the features in Smash greatly increase the load times of the site. Even worst how they would turn off and on the net but only the Chiefs and Officers still has net access. Well so did the LS's but they needed it for their job. Nice to see you post again Kewkky! I wasn't sure you'd be able to log on when I left you that message.

 

[Kewkky]

I'm in a foreign port right now (can't disclose location), so I got SOME internet access. Better than the ship's, so I'm able to download a few things here and there. And visit SWF.

 

[pidgezero_one]

i use ness, kirby, peach, pikachu, dedede, jigglypuff, zelda, and lucas

i should pick up MK but like... my 8 characters are the ones I actually have fun using ._.

 

[Vinylic.]

Merry christmas, kirbies.

 

[Kawaii Poyo]

Merry Christmas mah doos. :D

Also I've been thinking more and... I MIGHT, MIGHT keep Kirby for Marth since Chu is 100% perfect vs Marth and I dislike Marth's grab releases on MK. Same for Pikachu cause I don't like getting CG'd. Other than that, I dunno though.

 

[BBQTV]

whenever you put on your mask you gain power and turn into a super hero


when metaknight breaks his mask he always runs, why is that? it is explained here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv0_lXN-vdY

 

[Luco]

Merry christmas you guys!! <3

I do wish you the best of luck, Kawaii, even if it means you're dropping kirby.

I love Lucas and Ness, I couldn't even imagine dropping them for anyone else. I'd love to win but the fact I love playing this game with the mains I like is what's keeping me interested. I don't wanna switch to a char and start winning without feeling a love for what i'm doing. I love the PSI playstyle and it's so much fun for me, so I keep using it. That's the case for most people and their mains and I think i'll keep playing smash so long as I see something like that, a playstyle, a character, that I love to play as in smash.

 

[MikeKirby]

I love Lucas and Ness, I couldn't even imagine dropping them for anyone else. I'd love to win but the fact I love playing this game with the mains I like is what's keeping me interested. I don't wanna switch to a char and start winning without feeling a love for what i'm doing. I love the PSI playstyle and it's so much fun for me, so I keep using it. That's the case for most people and their mains and I think i'll keep playing smash so long as I see something like that, a playstyle, a character, that I love to play as in smash.

The feels...

 

[Luco]

The feels...

It just... FEELS...

So me..

 

[BBQTV]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/481727_3954442898782_886926522_n.jpg

 

[pidgezero_one]

^that actually makes me regret leaving /v/ for 5 years

 

[Labernash]

Lololololol

Do u even lift cmon

 

[Luco]

Okay, i'm gonna say it, since it's been a while since it happened and I think we can all laugh about it now (right?)

For a long time, I used to mind-blank and think Labernash and Lukinhasss were the same person. In fact, I never noticed the difference in names.

 

[Labernash]

I don't know who Lukinhasss is! :o

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

I'll always stick with Peach, Kirby, Pikachu, and Lucario. Sadly tournament wise I know I'll end up going either Pikachu or Lucario. Training or if it is casual and of course Basic Brawl online (Yes, I actually tolerate that area, however the JPN side is almost the polar opposite of what you encounter in NTSC. In which I actually enjoyed playing Basic Brawl and even Team Battle.) I just stick with Kirby and Peach.

 

[Kawaii Poyo]

You live in Japan, go play Otori, RAIN or 9B already! XD

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

LOL I'd like to, I'd really would. I know they'll wipe the floor with me but I hate all these new stupid rules our base as come out with making harder to go out to town, heck even if I want to go to a JPN Tournament I have to fill out stupid extra paper work. Darn Sailors just can't stay out of trouble...

 

[Vinylic.]

Sounds like it's worth filing out that stupid extra paper work for the tournament.

 

[~automatic]

So what did you Kirby people inhale for Christmas dinner?

 

[Labernash]

Candy... I didn't eat a real dinner because I was full on stocking goodies haha!

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Sounds like it's worth filing out that stupid extra paper work for the tournament.

You'd think otherwise if you saw it and all the additional stuff you have to do just to go out. That isn't including requiring a liberty buddy to come with you if you stay out past a certain time...

 

[Luco]

I'm sorry supa, it must be really frustrating to be in your position.

 

[BBQTV]

pie, lots of pie

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

I'm sorry supa, it must be really frustrating to be in your position.

Yeah it is a pity how only a few F-Ups can screw over everybody out here. I guess they weren't kidding when they said the liberty is strict in Japan. =/

 

[Kawaii Poyo]

So what did you Kirby people inhale for Christmas dinner?

I was over at two of my uncle's houses for Christmas. At my first uncle's house I didn't eat that much (I wasn't really hungry early in the day) but I ate a few slices of ham and a cupcake. Then at my other uncle's house, they made me a full plate of mashed potatoes and steak. I was soooooooooo full after that. It was really good though! So that satisfied my Christmas appetite. :D

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

A couple of hours then I can head back to them states for some relaxing vacation and spend that New Years with the family and friends I left behind.

 

[t!MmY]

So what did you Kirby people inhale for Christmas dinner?

I think this is where a picture is worth more than words:



Edit:
t0mmy and I did the cooking, just as we do every year.

 

[Luco]

Somebody in the TL thread was asking why kirby has a +2 on Lucas. I honestly didn't know and decided to ask you guys!

 

[BBQTV]

it's my birthday and im 20 now

 

[Vinylic.]

Habby pirthday and luco, I've never been sure either.

I've always felt like lucas and Kirby MU was the same as Ness and Kirby MU.

 

[Luco]

Hmm... Well what if we explore it a bit?

Does Ness have any particular grab set-ups that Lucas would find harder to initiate?

Does Lucas suffer at all from the lack of a PK fire 'pillar'?

Lucas off-stage. Surely this isn't as bad as Ness...

Is there anything Lucas has that ness doesn't when it comes to this MU. Tricks? Options?

I don't see kirby as having enough to warrant a +/-2, the more I think about it. Maybe a +/- 1 if there's something in particular i'm forgetting? Does kirby have a particularly bad CG on us... No, wait, that would affect his Ness MU as well... :-/

Maybe it's to do with range?

I just don't know. :/

 

[Kawaii Poyo]

Somebody in the TL thread was asking why kirby has a +2 on Lucas. I honestly didn't know and decided to ask you guys!

Cause spacing-wise, Lucas should never beat Kirby's bair unless Kirby messes up or goes too deep into Lucas' zone for no reason (or if Lucas gets the lead, I guess Kirby has to?). Lucas can't grab out of shield cause his grab sucks, I think the best he can do is trade with Kirby's bair with a fair? I dunno.

I know Pink Fresh has taken Chu to game 3 multiple times in 2010 though, so maybe I just don't know the MU, I never played it, but I feel like Lucas shouldn't beat Kirby's bair if it's perfectly spaced.

 

[Luco]

Yeah but we usually use SH PKF and if you get too close, Nair is a decent OoS option. :/

Also, we can use grab as a mix-up. Obviously not a lot though ha.

 

[Kawaii Poyo]

Which is why I said perfectly spaced, for PK Fire. Nair sounds good if you read the bair and shield it. But other than that... I don't see much Lucas has to use in the MU. XD

 

[t!MmY]

...I feel like Lucas shouldn't beat Kirby's bair if it's perfectly spaced.

If you feel this way you might want to explain why, otherwise there's nothing for us to go off of.

Does Kirby's B-air make Kirby invincible to Lucas' attacks?
Does it come out faster and hit farther than every single one of Lucas' attacks?
Can it be used in situations where it is extremely difficult and/or risky for Lucas to intercept or punish?

The above are questions that, if they were true, would start to suggest at least a +2/-2 Match-up in Kirby's favor. If the above questions are not true, then I would start to question the proposed advantage that Kirby has in the match-up.

Let's take some facts into the equation:

At a distance, how does Kirby's B-air work to give Kirby an advantage in the match-up? I'm using 'at a distance' to reference a good amount of range, such as halfway across FD or more. What is Kirby's B-air going to do to put pressure on Lucas? What is it going to do to deal damage to Lucas? The answer is that it has very little use at this distance.

At a distance, what does Lucas have on Kirby? The go-to in this situation will usually be PK Fire. It starts up quickly enough and with enough space from Kirby it is unpunishable even if it whiffs. Considering Kirby's less-than-stellar mobility, it's even possible for Lucas to be so bold as to throw out PK Ice or PK Thunder with enough distance. Even if Kirby is adept at avoiding and defending these projectiles Lucas is in a strong position whereas Kirby is in a weak position.

At closer distancing, B-air becomes more useful. It becomes a spacing tool that threatens Lucas while at the same time Lucas' projectile game becomes weaker. PK Fire becomes more risky at this range because on a miss Kirby can score a hit on Lucas or at the very least use the time as an opportunity to strengthen his position. It is at this point that close-combat is likely and Lucas will be forced to use other tactics.

Lucas' grab (Rope Snake) hinders him up close due to it's relatively long start-up (frame 13), but overall it's only a minor disadvantage. Lucas can still beat Kirby's B-air in multiple instances, it's the mix-ups the Kirby player uses that actually make this more difficult for Lucas.

For instance, if Kirby attacks head-on with a B-air (spaced perfectly to hit Lucas) and remains in the air Lucas always has the option of a Shield and then canceling the Shield with a Jump (usually into F-air at this spacing) to punish Kirby. If Kirby's position is a landing B-air, then Lucas' Grab can punish it as well*. The same is true for any other Aerial Attack that Kirby is baited into using against Lucas' Shield.

If Kirby feints with B-air - because he knows that it will be punished if Shielded - he is taking a risk. The risk is putting his feet out and leaving himself vulnerable to an attack, and for what reward? To shrink Lucas' Shield down a little. At what risk? Well, at this point Lucas can use a number of attacks to hit Kirby's feet (such as F-air, D-smash, F-smash and PK Fire).

Because of this, the game revolves around Kirby's mix-ups and Lucas' punishes. It's a pretty even match-up at this point and more of a game of patience. If Kirby goes in for the hit, he can be routinely punished but if Lucas moves in for an attack he can run right into a B-air. Since Lucas is safer at longer distances he will be moving away while Kirby will be moving toward. The advantage here is that will put Lucas closer to the ledge where Kirby's B-air will send him off-stage.

When Lucas is off-stage, it's puts him in a very vulnerable position. Granted he's not as bad off-stage as Ness is, but they both have to put their focus on getting back on-stage. Kirby, on the other hand, can usually take his time getting back to the stage thwarting most any ledge-guarding Lucas can offer.

For the most part this is a pretty even fight, you only see clear advantages in specific situations (Long Range: Lucas, Off-Stage: Kirby). Neither Lucas nor Kirby have tactics or techniques that either cannot deal with, so I don't see it going beyond much more than +1/-1.

Edit: B-air vs Shield and landing lag:
*B-air: 9-frames landing lag + X + Y. Where X is "number of frames to get to the ground", and where Y is "number of frames to defend against a Grab" (usually Y=2 minimum which is the time it takes to start up a Dodge).

 

[~automatic]

Timmy, you're a true scholar of Smash and Kirby.

*Standing ovation*

 

[MikeKirby]

Played Zero in some friendlies today.

My God it was...

 

[Kawaii Poyo]

I'm sooooooooooooooooo sad Nairo beat him... ;_;

ZeRo vs Anti was HYPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE though! :D

 

[Luco]

Awww, I didn't see it! :o

So jealous Mike... ;_;

@Timmy: Does Lucas get severely beat by kirby off-stage though? I'm not contradicting you or anything, just curious. Kirby can obviously stay out for an extended period of time, so we wanna mix up our recoveries (i.e. rope snake, recovering far away, zap jump to PKT, zap jump to magnet pull, etc.).

 

[t!MmY]

Played Zero in some friendlies today.
My God it was...

I wanna hear more.

@Timmy: Does Lucas get severely beat by kirby off-stage though?

No, I wouldn't go so far as to say 'severely'. It's more like that's just where Kirby wants to get Lucas. This is because, on-stage, taking stocks comes down to who gets the better reads (or the first hard-read). But strategically it's much more favorable for Kirby to have Lucas struggling on the ledge or off-stage, whereas if Lucas gets Kirby off-stage there's not much of a risk for Kirby.

Ness is at much more risk than Lucas when recovering, but even then Kirby isn't the best fit character to gimp such recoveries. Kirby's aerial attacks off-stage send opponents in a upward angle and are not intrinsically designed to gimp with the obvious exception of Kirby's D-air. With Kirby's floaty air speed it's not like he has an easy time catching up to a Mother-kid off-stage, especially with an 18-frame D-air.

Lucas shouldn't have too much trouble getting back to the ledge unless he has somehow put himself into a terrible position. Zap Jumping, stalling with Psi Magnet, and Rope Snake are enough to get by most of Kirby's edge guarding attempts, but the fact still remains that when Ness/Lucas is off-stage there's always the chance of a lost stock.