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KGD - The Kewkky Thread! - Kirby's Wasteland: Dead Social

Vinylic.

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Yeah, auto.

eh, i probably am fresh meat. I know nothing about Kirby and his playstyle.
You should watch some Kirby videos and look around the Kirby boards. It might help.
As for I, you should be mostly focusing on making combos and spacing.
Tilts as well, as utilt is mostly one way to start up a combo.
 

Wumbo105

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Um, hi there.

I'm just a random user on the boards. Nice to meet all of you ^_^
I recently picked up Kirby and am loving him. So, i thought to myself that it would be a good idea to get active in the Kirby boards. So i'm going to try to frequent these boards. I probably won't be here that much because of this last semester of high school i got left. But enough of that, i might as well bore you all with how i got to be a Kirby main.

I've used Meta Knight ever since i started playing competitive brawl. However, after he was banned i had to look for another main. I kept testing different characters. Eventually i came to Kirby. Something just 'clicked' whenever i use him. It feels natural when i use him, i seem to be pretty good with him, and for once, now i really don't feel mad or like i failed so much whenever i lose with Kirby. Regardless of whether i win or lose with Kirby, i had fun playing as Kirby.

So that's mah story. I'll be sticking with Kirby. So yeah, God bless ^_^
Just watch various vids (preferably somewhat recent) of anything having to do with Chudat. He is literally the epitome of Kirby's playstyle, you can't go wrong.
 

Kewkky

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Just watch various vids (preferably somewhat recent) of anything having to do with Chudat. He is literally the epitome of Kirby's playstyle, you can't go wrong.
>learns how to SDI like Chu
>goes wrong


A single example trumps your statement, my good sir.
 

Wumbo105

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>learns how to SDI like Chu
>goes wrong


A single example trumps your statement, my good sir.
Not knowing how to SDI out of pikachu's d-smash has nothing to do with Kirby's playstyle as a character, which is what he's looking for.

A single random statement trumps your logic, my good sir.
 

Luco

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Kirby isn't high enough on the tier list = playstyle must be changed.

This simple fact trumpes every bit of logic you have, my dear Watson.

But nawwwwww, Kirbs is fine. ^^
 

Kappy

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I wouldn't just watch ChuDat. LOL. He's definitely the best Kirby in the US, but I think watching other players like Falln and Triple R (both are very good and put up a lot of videos) should also be considered. ChuDat's playstyle isn't a "Kirby" playstyle. He transcends that because of his experience as a professional Smash player, and there's a big difference between how Kirby should play and how he plays. He's just using Kirby as his character.
 

Praxis

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So where can I find concrete directions on what can be eaten or what can't be eaten on that Ketosis diet?

I gotta see this.
The FAQ:
http://www.reddit.com/help/faqs/keto

Summary:
As long as you are eating less than 20g of carbs a day (not counting fiber as a carb), you are in ketosis.

Just check the label of what you're eating, see how many carbs it has, subtract the fiber from the total, and make sure your total for the day is under 20g.

If you feel crappy, do the following:

* Up fat intake; you want fat to make up the majority of your diet, not protein
* Up your potassium intake- you can get this from leafy green vegetables and avocado.
* Eat more salt, ketosis depletes salt
* Drink more water, fat metabolization uses more water so you will need to drink a lot more
* Avoid vegetable oils, they're bad for you. Except Olive/Coconut oil


As a general rule:
* Meat has no carbs, red meat/poultry/fish all included
* Eggs have no carbs
* Leafy vegetables are mostly fiber, and you need them for vitamins, so eat a lot of them
* Nuts are low carb, high fat, especially almonds. But they do have carbs so don't go crazy
* Fruit has carbs from sugar, occasional berries or tomatoes are okay but for the most part minimize fruit
* Milk is loaded with carbs from lactose :( However, the lactose breaks down when it is turned in to cream or cheese. Cream and cheese are both low carb. Low-fat or sweetened cheeses are usually bad, so only eat full fat cheeses.




I generally eat stuff like steak, chicken, fish, and occasional bacon, with broccoli/spinach/kale/avocado/bok choy/romaine lettuce/cabbage for vegetables (usually steamed in butter or drizzled in olive oil), and lots of cheese, olives, and almonds for snacks.

Bacon is more of a treat, it has more omega-6 fats than I'd prefer...they're not fattening, but they're inflammatory, which is not good for you. Less inflammatory than vegetable oils though, those things are loaded with omega-6. Omega-3's are good for you, and saturated fats and monounsaturated fats are fine for you.

Eat till you're satisfied. You'll find that since your body stops storing fat in ketosis you have much less appetite.






Your secrets........... TELL ME!!!
When your body has carbohydrates, they turn in to blood sugars. If your blood sugar spikes, your body releases hormones designed to encourage your body to store it as fast as possible, because high blood sugars can be poisonous.

So you store more food instead of using it, and feel hungry again faster.

How strong the "storage effect" of insulin lasts depends on your individual insulin resistance, that's why some people get fat and some stay skinny eating the same foods.

Most people feel cruddy if they don't have enough blood sugar, but if you deprive yourself of glucose the body eventually manufactures a replacement (ketones) from breaking down fat.

So, that's the "hack"; switch your body to not using glucose (from blood sugar) and using fat instead, and eliminate the carbs that makes the body store. Body stops storing fat. Appetite drops significantly. You lose weight rapidly.

Almost all of the low carb diets (Atkins, South Beach, etc) have an "induction phase" that is basically the same thing as keto; you go in to ketosis. This is just getting rid of the extra rules those diets use and saying, "eat what you want, just stay in ketosis by not having carbs, and be aware that if you feel crappy it's because your body is lacking in x, so you should probably eat more vegetables/salt/drink more water."


Yeah i know about metabolism, but i wanna go more in-depth with this since were talking about it.

Just using an example here;

Say if I were to fry 2 chicken patties and some french fries how would that work, Since its using grease(Oil)?
The fries are horrible for you. Because potato starch is super fattening.

How are you frying the chicken patties?

If you are breading them, the bread will cause an insulin response.

If you are deep frying them with no breading in vegetable oil, this is not healthy for your heart because vegetable oils are loaded with inflammatory omega-6 fats. But it is not fattening.


If you are pan frying them in olive oil, butter, or lard, and they are not breaded, this is healthy and will not cause weight gain, if you ditch the fries.
 

Praxis

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From what ive heard so far, heres a list of food/drinks to eat and avoid:

-Water(LOTS AND LOTS OF WATER)
-Raw Fruit
-Raw Veggies
-certain kinds of fat and grease(bacon, steak from what praxis said)
-Green tea( I heard it helps)
-Extra virgin olive oil.
-Canola oil??
I actually avoid fruits and canola oil. Canola oil is inflammatory, fruits often have a lot of sugar, they're bread today to be extra sugary. Some berries are okay. Fruits are probably fine if you're maintaining, but when you're on keto and losing weight they'll slow you down big time.


Saturated fat isn't bad for you, it's a good filler, better than eating carbs. So, butter.

Omega-3 fats are GREAT for you. Olive oil, fish, grass-fed beef, do eat.

Omega-6 fats are inflammatory, you need some but want to minimize them. Pork tends to have more than I'd like :/ But vegetable oils are loaded with them, excepting olive oil.

And list of what to avoid:
-White sugar
-sweets(Definitely try your hardest to avoid this)
-Soft drinks(Especially Pepsi and coca-cola products, I've heard bad **** about that)
-Juice(Not sure if orange/apple juice falls into this category)
-EVERY FAST FOOD RESTAURANT EVER!
Actually, you can get McDonalds burgers and take off the buns. Watch Fat Head on Netflix :p

You wanna eliminate grains and starches as much as you can too.
 

Sage JoWii

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I wouldn't just watch ChuDat. LOL. He's definitely the best Kirby in the US, but I think watching other players like Falln and Triple R (both are very good and put up a lot of videos) should also be considered. ChuDat's playstyle isn't a "Kirby" playstyle. He transcends that because of his experience as a professional Smash player, and there's a big difference between how Kirby should play and how he plays. He's just using Kirby as his character.
THIS. Everything about this.

Praxis, you're teh awesomeness. Thank you.
 

Kewkky

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Yeah praxis, this is some info I will definitely be using once I move from this base and have more freedom. A diet consisting on practically meat alone? Not like I need a diet since I'm skinny, but it absolutely fits my lifestyle (minus the carbs, sweets, and whatnot. I can sacrifice them for meat any day of the year).

Before I research it myself, Praxis: does deep-fried meats count as calorie-ridden? Because deep-fried chicken is pretty awesome. If I have to sacrifice those, I'll suffer, but I could handle it as long as I have alternative options (not right now due to this base being horrible in terms of consumables options).
 

MikeKirby

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Under 20g a day? I looked around the kitchen to get an idea of what 20g might be like and I saw a yogurt cup had 29g (no fiber) and a serving of pure Cheerios had 20g (3g Fiber)... Sounds almost impossible. =\

I like the water part, haha. All I drink all day is straight up water! :bee:

I thought fruit sugar was ok since it was... Well, "natural". :confused:

I mean, I'm not chubby or anything but I do want to feel more healthy and energized.

:phone:
 

Shadocat

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I actually avoid fruits and canola oil. Canola oil is inflammatory, fruits often have a lot of sugar, they're bread today to be extra sugary. Some berries are okay. Fruits are probably fine if you're maintaining, but when you're on keto and losing weight they'll slow you down big time.


Saturated fat isn't bad for you, it's a good filler, better than eating carbs. So, butter.

Omega-3 fats are GREAT for you. Olive oil, fish, grass-fed beef, do eat.

Omega-6 fats are inflammatory, you need some but want to minimize them. Pork tends to have more than I'd like :/ But vegetable oils are loaded with them, excepting olive oil.



Actually, you can get McDonalds burgers and take off the buns. Watch Fat Head on Netflix :p

You wanna eliminate grains and starches as much as you can too.

Thanks for all of the info.. I dont plan on doing the Ketosis stuff, seems far too complicated and situational :p

I just want to generally lose weight through eating healthy and exercise.

And Say if i were to get a burger from mcds, would i have to get it plain??



edit: http://www.fox43.com/news/wpmt-red-meat-bad,0,2391202.story my mom just said something about seeing this on the Today show.
Woah............

Do I have to worry if i only eat red meat once in a while?? I hardly ever eat red meat nowadays(Maybe say 3 times per month)

Im definitely cutting off the hot dogs, this article kinda scared me :(
 

Wumbo105

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I didn't say to only watch Chu and that's it, that wouldn't get u very far in the long run, obviously. But since he's just starting out, who else better to give him a framework to work off of than him?
And I don't get how the way he plays is vastly different than the way Kirby should play. He's pretty much invented how kirby should play, it goes hand in hand.

As a side note, NOOOOO NOT THE HOTDOGS!!! That really disappointed me. I aint neva gon' stop.
 

Kewkky

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Take that survey with a grain of salt. All it does is point out that the people who are eating hot dogs and red meats are dying quicker than those who aren't. They leave out absolutely every single detail out about the habits of the people. Think about it... Would a person who exercises, eats healthy, and occasionally partakes in a delightful dinner of carnivorous sensations, die earlier than a person who barely ever, if never, eats hot dogs and lives an otherwise unhealthy sedimentary lifestyle?

Same could be said about a tweaked example... When was the last time you heard of some health nut advocating the eating of hot dogs to be a healthy part of your diet? Never, if you can't recall I pointed it out to you! That's because the people who aren't eating hot dogs are doing so because they know they're unhealthy, so they're already living healthier lifestyles than the other participants in the study, and in doing so living longer! However, when you go to a baseball game, a hot dog stand, or a restaurant with a palate of great-tasting and well-served steaks, do the consumers all look fit in the first place? The majority of them aren't, and a majority of that group doesn't look so physically fit, either.


I never take those studies seriously. It's more of a mass hysteria cause than a helpful hint to the population. All they're doing is buying a fruit salad, taking it home, digging through it until they throw out everything but the pineapples, then after eating what's left, saying that the salad tastes great.
 

Kappy

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I get what you're saying, Wumbo, but they actually don't go hand-in-hand. A good example of this is Inhale/Nair, and baiting/punishing. When you pit a char vs a char on paper, there's a certain flaw in doing that - most people take into account player-specific actions when trying to debate the ratio.

Let me exemplify this for you:

Kirby has Fthrow -> Uair. Kirby should be using Fthrow -> Uair. It's a safe, easy way to rack 18% without fear of punishment. It is, in fact, something that can be said on paper. Things like KO %, KO power, range, etc... are paper-specific things.

Now, say you use Fthrow, and instead of DI'ing they use their Uair because instead of using Uair, you baited their DI and shield -> regrab -> Dthrow -> Utilt. That's not paper. It's not good to talk about, "what if Kirby does this or this?" You can't have a discussion like that, because then you're entering the minds of players, people abusing baits and punishes that aren't on paper and can't be described because of human error. You can't talk about the perfect Kirby because there is no perfect Kirby.

To put it in an even simpler way -> Kirby can punish x move with x, y, and z. ChuDat opts to use move A sometimes because he knows it's better in that particular situation, but on paper it looks disastrous. This is how Inhale and Nair work, for the most part. They look bad on paper, but when used correctly by the individual player, they can be extremely powerful.

So, no, ChuDat's style is not how Kirby should be played on paper. In fact, the only thing you can really derive from watching him is that he has some great reads and mixups, and you can opt to use those mixups once you learn when to use them, as he has. Oh, and you can learn how to space because, as a professional player, he really understands the concept and abuses it with Kirby, so you can learn how to space with Kirby.

On paper, most things ChuDat does is actually not safe and not reliable, but ChuDat knows when to use the "worse" option because it is, in fact, the better option, or it's a little more risky and he's confident with his follow-up read.

Now, he could be making these reads with any character, he could be baiting with any character, but he's using Kirby, and that's why many will think that is how Kirby should be played, when it's not. Sure, he should be using a lot of Bair, and ChuDat does use a lot of Bair, but really watch him play - he doesn't really follow how Kirby should be played on paper. He does stuff differently because he gets into his opponent's head and knows he'll get better results playing his way, not Kirby's way, and that's what makes him a great player - his style is his own. It's actually something I've recently discovered as I continue to improve my own style with Kirby. LOL.

Oh, and ChuDat didn't "invent" how to play Kirby. Actually, Gonzo/Timmy, I think, were major contributors to Kirby's paper playstyle. I know Gonzo was since he created Fthrow -> Uair, which is why it's called the "Gonzo Combo". LOL. ChuDat came in, and as the better player showed how well Kirby can perform when put into the right hands and given the expert reads and mixups of a professional player.

Just sayin' :colorful: I know this confuses a lot of people so I thought some clarification was needed, since it was recently clarified for me by a couple of my friends who play fighting games competitively. It's really a fascinating subject to talk about :)
 

Wumbo105

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I get what you're saying, Wumbo, but they actually don't go hand-in-hand. A good example of this is Inhale/Nair, and baiting/punishing. When you pit a char vs a char on paper, there's a certain flaw in doing that - most people take into account player-specific actions when trying to debate the ratio.

Let me exemplify this for you:

Kirby has Fthrow -> Uair. Kirby should be using Fthrow -> Uair. It's a safe, easy way to rack 18% without fear of punishment. It is, in fact, something that can be said on paper. Things like KO %, KO power, range, etc... are paper-specific things.

Now, say you use Fthrow, and instead of DI'ing they use their Uair because instead of using Uair, you baited their DI and shield -> regrab -> Dthrow -> Utilt. That's not paper. It's not good to talk about, "what if Kirby does this or this?" You can't have a discussion like that, because then you're entering the minds of players, people abusing baits and punishes that aren't on paper and can't be described because of human error. You can't talk about the perfect Kirby because there is no perfect Kirby.

To put it in an even simpler way -> Kirby can punish x move with x, y, and z. ChuDat opts to use move A sometimes because he knows it's better in that particular situation, but on paper it looks disastrous. This is how Inhale and Nair work, for the most part. They look bad on paper, but when used correctly by the individual player, they can be extremely powerful.

So, no, ChuDat's style is not how Kirby should be played on paper. In fact, the only thing you can really derive from watching him is that he has some great reads and mixups, and you can opt to use those mixups once you learn when to use them, as he has. Oh, and you can learn how to space because, as a professional player, he really understands the concept and abuses it with Kirby, so you can learn how to space with Kirby.

On paper, most things ChuDat does is actually not safe and not reliable, but ChuDat knows when to use the "worse" option because it is, in fact, the better option, or it's a little more risky and he's confident with his follow-up read.

Now, he could be making these reads with any character, he could be baiting with any character, but he's using Kirby, and that's why many will think that is how Kirby should be played, when it's not. Sure, he should be using a lot of Bair, and ChuDat does use a lot of Bair, but really watch him play - he doesn't really follow how Kirby should be played on paper. He does stuff differently because he gets into his opponent's head and knows he'll get better results playing his way, not Kirby's way, and that's what makes him a great player - his style is his own. It's actually something I've recently discovered as I continue to improve my own style with Kirby. LOL.

Oh, and ChuDat didn't "invent" how to play Kirby. Actually, Gonzo/Timmy, I think, were major contributors to Kirby's paper playstyle. I know Gonzo was since he created Fthrow -> Uair, which is why it's called the "Gonzo Combo". LOL. ChuDat came in, and as the better player showed how well Kirby can perform when put into the right hands and given the expert reads and mixups of a professional player.

Just sayin' :colorful: I know this confuses a lot of people so I thought some clarification was needed, since it was recently clarified for me by a couple of my friends who play fighting games competitively. It's really a fascinating subject to talk about :)
I actually agree with all of this lol. I always thought Chu played a bit unorthodox, but when you put it that way, I can see what you mean.
And when I said he invented Kirby, I meant he gave the general idea of how to perform as a Kirby main in general, not his actual mechanics. I'm aware Gonzo and t!mmy did most of that work since day 1, and I'm glad they did.

And whoa, YbM, haven't heard that name in years. We used to have some intense Kirby mirrors back when I was on AiB. I remember because his Kirby was the only one I found that could keep up with mine. Man I wish i didn't take a break from Brawl...
 

Vinylic.

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Don't worry about it, your getting yourself back together after that smashfest.
I got some work to do though. I'm not talking about the playstyle, but a Mr.SDoomI.
 

~automatic

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I don't really think that there's a top Kirby that you should model yourself after since Kirby is just basic spacing and punishing with a couple of gimmicky things. Just figure out how to play effectively.
 

Luco

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You could always look at the exemplary examples of each character and look at Kirby. But yea, you find your own playstyle, thats how it works. :)
 

Sage JoWii

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^ Interesting posts.

One of the most interesting things about Kirby IMO is that he's a very very very very very very basic character. He's as average as you'll get. Sure he has FSmash, his throw combo, a better than average recovery and inhale, but he's also light, all his B moves are **** except inhale, and has poor horizontal speed. For every buff, he has a nerf. On the tier list, everyone below him he beats, and everyone above him he goes even or loses. There's also no one way to play Kirby. I can probably think of three playstyles: a grab-centric, a BAir-centric, and an inhale Kirby; and those are just the playstyles set around one move. Honestly, Kirby can be played anyway you want and still have some success. Sure, higher up you have to align yourself to one of those three playstyles because a lot of Kirby's moves are **** - a third of them in fact, but otherwise he's open to whatever you want him to be. Kirby, who inhales character to become something better, is simply YouKirby as default since you're what makes Kirby what he is.

So if you want to be a better Kirby, look at your playstyle, and see what YOU need to do to be a better Kirby.
 

Sarix

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I agree that one of Kirby's charming qualities is his simplicity and how it can be taken advantage of. There really are no "core playstyles" for Kirby except being attack-centric compared to characters like Fox who focuses on using lasers to force approaches. Just being aware of spacing and burst range makes Kirby quite versatile and I've made him into one of my favorite rushdown characters because of that.
 

Sage JoWii

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Of all the Kirbies I've played, Ice28 is probably the first to make me envy him. From what he told me he only plays on wifi - rarely, never goes to tournaments, and doesn't come on smashboards. He has ridiculous read skills, a very solid Kirby, and is unpredictable. I've only seen him once, today, and when I was playing him I thought 'Is this Chudat?' from how hard he was wrecking my shop. I never landed for free, I never never got in a hit for free, and if he hit me once, he hit me twice or more. My TL barely got me a win, but the next game he beat him, and he beat my CF, my Zelda, and my Kirby solidly.

Honestly, the best Kirby I've played minus YbM (because I haven't played Chudat).
 

t!MmY

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Oh, and ChuDat didn't "invent" how to play Kirby. Actually, Gonzo/Timmy, I think, were major contributors to Kirby's paper playstyle. I know Gonzo was since he created Fthrow -> Uair, which is why it's called the "Gonzo Combo".
Ah, that takes me back to the good 'ol days of 2008...

I still chuckle about the 'Gonzo Combo' when I hear it because originally it wasn't the (mostly) guaranteed F-throw -> U-air combo known today. I think it started as some long string of hits like "F-throw -> U-air -> U-tilt -> B-air -> B-air" and he didn't invent it, he just named it after himself.

I remember in 2008 (before the 'Gonzo Combo' was named) I was at this awesome Regional tournament (Capital Brawl in NV) and I showed JLBchamp how to buffer the reverse U-tilt after the F-throw -> U-air. He thought it was awesome and told me I should name it the 't1mmy combo'. XD I just laughed and told him that if I named every combo I found there'd be a dozen of them. I didn't have a name for it because to me it was just an obvious combo... but I remember t0mmy calling it the "Standard Kirby Kombo", which had a nice ring to it.

I seriously hope that when the next Smash comes out that people quit naming combos after themselves, especially the most basic of combos. It's like everyone wants their own "Ken Combo" or something. XD

I just want everyone to remember that the 'true inventors' of Kirby are all of us who continue to play as Kirby and show how awesome Kirby is. It's a team effort that helps progress Kirby's meta game, and we're all contributors.
 

Wumbo105

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he beat my CF, my Zelda, and my Kirby solidly.
Those are all very easy matchups for Kirby, shouldn't be surprised that he won. As for the Kirby mirror, doesn't it make sense that the Kirby main beats the non-Kirby main? (I'm just goin by your listed chars, if u are a Kirby main then my mistake)
 

Sage JoWii

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Those are all very easy matchups for Kirby, shouldn't be surprised that he won. As for the Kirby mirror, doesn't it make sense that the Kirby main beats the non-Kirby main? (I'm just goin by your listed chars, if u are a Kirby main then my mistake)
Seeing as I don't know you, I'll take it that you don't know me. Sure, those are both easy MUs for Kirbies, and I'm fine with losing with those characters, BUT I know those MUs really well so I can usually put up a good fight. My Zelda is good enough to beat Kirbies that don't know the MU. I'm a Kirby main, and I know the ditto. I don't like the ditto, and the ditto isn't really an indication of anything, but I listed it because I was listing his wins on me.

You don't know if I'm good or bad, or any specifics about me or the characters I play, so I'd appreciate it if you would avoid quoting anything I say for the time being. It's a request because I hate seeing your posts and you haven't even been here long; I'd hate it even more if your posts continue to contain my name or my words.

Thanks.
 

Wumbo105

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Queens, NY
Calm your nips there, cowboy, I meant no personal offense by anything I said. No need to get your panties in a knot.
Nothing makes me hate people more than people who blindly hate me for no reason, especially those who are drunk on self-confidence.
 

Kmatt

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
304
Location
Doing flying chaingrabs across southeast PA
WOAH THERE BUDDY.

I know the Haterade tastes sweet at first, but the aftertaste is oh so bitter.

Trust me, I've been drowned in it plenty of times in my past life. Nobody has to agree or validate anyone else, and regardless of whether or not it has a valid basing or not, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Including ones that are different from your own.
 

Kewkky

Uhh... Look at my status.
Premium
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
8,019
Location
San Diego, CA
Switch FC
SW-7001-5337-8820
You know what I think? I think that if I warm up enough, I'm the best Kirby in the freakin' universe. Get at me.
 
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