have you ever played a good lucas? they're pretty freaking scary.6:4 it is! That's another good MU for Kirby...
I'm quite sure you guys will be pleased with what I've accomplished in the discussions.
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KGD - The Kewkky Thread! - Kirby's Wasteland: Dead Social
- Thread starter Labernash
- Start date
Triple R
Smash Lord
I actually find lucas a very annoying matchup. I haven't played one enough to have a solid opinion, but I'd almost put it at even.
I've played a number of Lucas players. I can't say I've played USA Lucas players, but that doesn't mean they're the only best Lucas mainers. I actually find it quite easy.
Who knows, maybe it's just that I'm better skilled than them. However, top Lucas mainers I've (indirectly) spoken to have told me that they feel the matchup is 40:60 for them, and the other person with me on Kirby's side also says that he's on the fence between 55:45 and 60:40, so we just went with 60:40.
Who knows, maybe it's just that I'm better skilled than them. However, top Lucas mainers I've (indirectly) spoken to have told me that they feel the matchup is 40:60 for them, and the other person with me on Kirby's side also says that he's on the fence between 55:45 and 60:40, so we just went with 60:40.
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
Lucas has so much shenanigans with his B-reversals and boost jumping. Combined together this guy zips back and forth like a freakin' plane... It depends on the stage but I'd say small advantage for us, maaaybe even.
this is really the scariest thing about him. he's all over the place, it's honestly hard to keep up with the trickier lucas players.
that, and his fsmash rox.
Lord Viper
SS Rank
☆ I have more trouble with Ness than Lucas, considering he's harder to approach. x_x ☆
☆ The first time I played a good Lucas I got wrecked because I was playing too defensive, then again, 2009 was my bad year when playing Smashbros. Lucky Lucas's air move sets doesn't pose much of a threat which prevent him for having an advantage against Kirby. ☆
☆ The first time I played a good Lucas I got wrecked because I was playing too defensive, then again, 2009 was my bad year when playing Smashbros. Lucky Lucas's air move sets doesn't pose much of a threat which prevent him for having an advantage against Kirby. ☆
Yet when we did the MU side-project here in the Kirby boards, Lucas was RIGHT next to the 60:40 fence when all votes were tallied. After the project is done for us, I'm gonna do the side-project again, probably gonna happen during late january/early february. I want to see how the Kirby communitys' opinions of MUs has changed from last year's (a bit over last year, it was done in November '09), so I hope you guys will be around to help out then!
By the way, the chart isn't being done exclusively by BBR members. We chose two non-BBR top mainers from each of the characters to ask for their input however we saw fit, so I can't see how it'll be inaccurate... it's like a super MU discussion, it's totally awesome but most of you would probably ragequit due to the frustration we get since most of us are thick-headed (I know I'm fighting for my numbers, for example!).
By the way, the chart isn't being done exclusively by BBR members. We chose two non-BBR top mainers from each of the characters to ask for their input however we saw fit, so I can't see how it'll be inaccurate... it's like a super MU discussion, it's totally awesome but most of you would probably ragequit due to the frustration we get since most of us are thick-headed (I know I'm fighting for my numbers, for example!).
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
Why twiddle your thumbs when you could be spending that precious time Hup canceling?
Sage JoWii
Smash Champion
;D @ Kewkky.
Also, I play FAE who is a BEAST @ Lucas and I still honestly can't see that MU as anything worse or better than an advantage MU *(6/4)*
Also, I play FAE who is a BEAST @ Lucas and I still honestly can't see that MU as anything worse or better than an advantage MU *(6/4)*
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
FAE is stupid good. I would love to get wrecked by him a few times.
~Shao~
Smash Ace
I'm going to a tournament this weekend. I'll report back on Monday probably. Wish me luck ;D
FAE was one of the Lucas top mainers that said the MU was 6:4 our advantage. :D
And good luck, Shao!
And good luck, Shao!
stingers
Smash Obsessed
whats the ratio with ROB lookin like =D
We have a slight advantage ratio from Kirby to ROB. I can't point out who they asked or who's in charge of the ratios for ROB since it's not my part of the project, I can only be lenient with what I've personally done. 
no not really, it's even. Did the ROBs ask you for your opinion stingers? I wouldn't understand why they wouldn't since you're a great ROB mainer.
I can't say too much, so Lucas and ROB is what you guys'll get, along with the information that I've been trying my best to make Kirby's ratios match what we could all agree to be his true ratios (by we all, I mean the best Kirby mainers around here, including the ones I didn't pick for advice).
no not really, it's even. Did the ROBs ask you for your opinion stingers? I wouldn't understand why they wouldn't since you're a great ROB mainer. I can't say too much, so Lucas and ROB is what you guys'll get, along with the information that I've been trying my best to make Kirby's ratios match what we could all agree to be his true ratios (by we all, I mean the best Kirby mainers around here, including the ones I didn't pick for advice).
stingers
Smash Obsessed
nah I wasn't asked =[ but I think the matchup is even too personally.
@TKbreezy
Follow me on Twitter!
55-45 Rob
He Walls us too well but we get combos hardcore when we get in.
also I play Pink fresh who is widely considered the best Lucas...I can agree with the matchup being 60-40
bair just ***** lucas life...lol.
He Walls us too well but we get combos hardcore when we get in.
also I play Pink fresh who is widely considered the best Lucas...I can agree with the matchup being 60-40
bair just ***** lucas life...lol.
Yep, Pink Fresh is the other guy that was asked, he said 60:40 our favor too.
Well, that means the Lucas MU is perfect. Majority agrees to it.
I got a question for the tourney-going Kirbies... What would you rate the Wario/Fox/Pit/PT/Yoshi MUs? I'm not making progress in any of those due to us not giving an inch. If you guys could rate them from -4 to +4, with -4 being unwinnable and +4 being unlosable, I'd be very thankful! I'm not gonna tell you guys my ratings for them yet, so I'll leave it to you guys to persuade me!
Well, that means the Lucas MU is perfect. Majority agrees to it.
I got a question for the tourney-going Kirbies... What would you rate the Wario/Fox/Pit/PT/Yoshi MUs? I'm not making progress in any of those due to us not giving an inch. If you guys could rate them from -4 to +4, with -4 being unwinnable and +4 being unlosable, I'd be very thankful! I'm not gonna tell you guys my ratings for them yet, so I'll leave it to you guys to persuade me!
Sage JoWii
Smash Champion
Wario
-1 to +1 so I guess you could also say it's a 0 MU. Who cares that we can beat the **** out of him if the kill is so easy for him.
Fox
+1; even if he has a kill move @ 100, after you get to 100 your primary concern is to stay grounded.
Pit
0 to +1; Planking is annoying, Pit has kill moves, racks damage moderately well but suffers from recovery esp. if Kirby can get his power.
PT
+1; Squirtle combos Kirby hard. Charizard is fat-ish and has rock. Ivysaur, if he can stay onstage and grounded is a lesser Yoshi. Kirby has the tools to deal with them.
Yoshi
+1 to +2; Crouch beats pivot grab, PS beats eggs.
-1 to +1 so I guess you could also say it's a 0 MU. Who cares that we can beat the **** out of him if the kill is so easy for him.
Fox
+1; even if he has a kill move @ 100, after you get to 100 your primary concern is to stay grounded.
Pit
0 to +1; Planking is annoying, Pit has kill moves, racks damage moderately well but suffers from recovery esp. if Kirby can get his power.
PT
+1; Squirtle combos Kirby hard. Charizard is fat-ish and has rock. Ivysaur, if he can stay onstage and grounded is a lesser Yoshi. Kirby has the tools to deal with them.
Yoshi
+1 to +2; Crouch beats pivot grab, PS beats eggs.
Triple R
Smash Lord
Wario -1: Just a spacing match. His kills are easier to land and he lives longer though.
Fox 0: I feel if I fox really camped you this would be an even matchup. It can be hard to catch him like Falco and lasers can build damage quickly if you're lazy.
Pit +1: Annoying character, but with patience this should be a doable matchup. Dodge arrows and DI out of his multi-hit moves.
PT +1: Ivysaur is a pushover, but the other characters can hold their own ok. Squirtle is probably you're biggest worry. Don't be stupid and get hit by Charizard's Rock Smash.
Yoshi +1: Very evasive character and is annoying with his eggs. Expect him to either airdodge or uair if he recovering from below and punish from there.
Fox 0: I feel if I fox really camped you this would be an even matchup. It can be hard to catch him like Falco and lasers can build damage quickly if you're lazy.
Pit +1: Annoying character, but with patience this should be a doable matchup. Dodge arrows and DI out of his multi-hit moves.
PT +1: Ivysaur is a pushover, but the other characters can hold their own ok. Squirtle is probably you're biggest worry. Don't be stupid and get hit by Charizard's Rock Smash.
Yoshi +1: Very evasive character and is annoying with his eggs. Expect him to either airdodge or uair if he recovering from below and punish from there.
Warios said the MU's -1 for us (meaning they say they have a slight advantage), and I was pushing for even. Want me to keep pushing for even, or should I take the -1?
JoWiiCIDE said:
Foxes say the MU's even, but I was pushing for +2. NAKAT said +2 (meaning we have a solid advantage) and TKD said even (he also said Fox should never camp or else he'll get wrecked). I suppose asking for a +1 wouldn't be a bad idea then?Triple R said:
JoWiiCIDE said:
Pits say the MU's -1 (meaning they have a slight disadvantage), and I've been pushing for even as a compromise. Vex on the other hand says that the MU's +1 (maybe even +2) in Kirby's favor, but he admitted that he doesn't have the best experience around. Should I keep pushing for even?Triple R said:
JoWiiCIDE said:
PT says the MU's even, and I've been pushing for +2 (if we don't approach Charizard he can never kill us, and he'll get fatigued. Whenever he decides on changing to Squirtle we can run in and hit him with a charged smash/sideB while his pokeball's opening. Squirtle is an even MU, but this situation makes it possible for us to force approaches if we're the advantaged ones, and we don't have to approach when Charizard is out until he gets fatigued, so we'll survive all his kill moves til later %s). Should I keep fighting for +2, or look for a +1 compromise?Triple R said:
JoWiiCIDE said:
Yoshis say it's even, and I've been pushing for +1. Should I keep pushing for +1 (I'm guessing yes)?Triple R said:
Sage JoWii
Smash Champion
Wario; Push for even.
Fox; +1 - there's no way it's even. Duck until Fox approaches or goes to the ledge to do that ledgehop-lazer within Kirby's crouch area (where you then PS as you approach and punish).
Pit; Push for even - I'll admit I don't have the greatest Pit experience but from the aspects I can see, if there's a glaring weakness w/ Pit that Kirby has an easier time than most exploiting (not to mention if Kirby gets the power? Lawl.), then it's probably even.
PT; Hm. Tbh, I'd be happy w/ +2, and I'd be ok with a +1. I agree with your stance.
Yoshi; Push for a +2, settle for a +1.
Fox; +1 - there's no way it's even. Duck until Fox approaches or goes to the ledge to do that ledgehop-lazer within Kirby's crouch area (where you then PS as you approach and punish).
Pit; Push for even - I'll admit I don't have the greatest Pit experience but from the aspects I can see, if there's a glaring weakness w/ Pit that Kirby has an easier time than most exploiting (not to mention if Kirby gets the power? Lawl.), then it's probably even.
PT; Hm. Tbh, I'd be happy w/ +2, and I'd be ok with a +1. I agree with your stance.
Yoshi; Push for a +2, settle for a +1.
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
Lol... You guys sound like you're bargaining for MU ratios... Seriously, this sounds like how I was when trying to shop in Egypt:
"It costs 20 dollars."
"Twenty for that? Do you guys know what a dollar is worth? I'll give you 5."
"10?"
"Oh so now the price is just cut in half? Stop trying to rip me off; I'll give you 5, and nothing more."
"6?"
"Okay."
Wario: -1 It feels even to me, which is precisely why it isn't. Waft is the reason. It feels even when I don't take it into account. Now add an instant kill move at almost any %, and I say he has the advantage. Our weight differences also goes against us.
Fox: Hmmm... somewhere between 0 and +1. It's a lot more even than I like to admit, and he *can* kill us ridiculously early. He also combos us pretty hard (though nowhere near as badly as we combo him) and can rack up damage ridiculously fast. Also his jab is amazing for interrupting attacks and going into grabs.
That being said, we rack that damage way faster, gimping him, while not easy, isn't very hard, and landing a kill move isn't *too* difficult either. On top of that, most of his moves lose out to inhale, which leads to a guaranteed KO.
Pit: 0 or +1 IMO. It's pretty even, but we have an easier time racking damage and scoring the KO, plus we can gimp pit, something he has a LOT of trouble doing to us. Honestly, his camping and ability to keep us out is the only thing that makes this MU tough/annoying.
PT: That's tough to put a solid number on. I think we are -1 with Squirtle (MAYBE even -2), +1 with Charizard and +2 on Ivysaur. On Zero-switch stages where he can go squirtle pretty much all game, we have a disadvantage.
Yoshi: +1 It never felt horrible to me, despite the fact Hadesblade always ***** me, and I never knew that you could crouch pivot grab, so yeah.
"It costs 20 dollars."
"Twenty for that? Do you guys know what a dollar is worth? I'll give you 5."
"10?"
"Oh so now the price is just cut in half? Stop trying to rip me off; I'll give you 5, and nothing more."
"6?"
"Okay."
WHAT?! Seriously, you can crouch pivot grab?! Man I wish I'd known that earlier... Time to crouch camp that *****.
Wario: -1 It feels even to me, which is precisely why it isn't. Waft is the reason. It feels even when I don't take it into account. Now add an instant kill move at almost any %, and I say he has the advantage. Our weight differences also goes against us.
Fox: Hmmm... somewhere between 0 and +1. It's a lot more even than I like to admit, and he *can* kill us ridiculously early. He also combos us pretty hard (though nowhere near as badly as we combo him) and can rack up damage ridiculously fast. Also his jab is amazing for interrupting attacks and going into grabs.
That being said, we rack that damage way faster, gimping him, while not easy, isn't very hard, and landing a kill move isn't *too* difficult either. On top of that, most of his moves lose out to inhale, which leads to a guaranteed KO.
Pit: 0 or +1 IMO. It's pretty even, but we have an easier time racking damage and scoring the KO, plus we can gimp pit, something he has a LOT of trouble doing to us. Honestly, his camping and ability to keep us out is the only thing that makes this MU tough/annoying.
PT: That's tough to put a solid number on. I think we are -1 with Squirtle (MAYBE even -2), +1 with Charizard and +2 on Ivysaur. On Zero-switch stages where he can go squirtle pretty much all game, we have a disadvantage.
Yoshi: +1 It never felt horrible to me, despite the fact Hadesblade always ***** me, and I never knew that you could crouch pivot grab, so yeah.
Yeah, I can't get Warios to accept being even, some of them even go as far as -2, so I'm forced to settle for -1. Apparently YbM is predictable and Chu is weird, and Triple R (yes you were brought up) played one of the panelists on WiFi and knew how to abuse wifi lag apparently. It's okay though since -1 is slight disadvantage and you all were okay with it from what I saw in your posts. I'm still trying to go for the other ones.
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
Yes, yes it is.
Hup canceling changed my life. I used to be an obese black woman, but thanks to hup canceling, I became a skinny white frenchman. This wasn't really a positive change, but my life was changed nonetheless.
Hup canceling changed my life. I used to be an obese black woman, but thanks to hup canceling, I became a skinny white frenchman. This wasn't really a positive change, but my life was changed nonetheless.
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
That last sentence was the cherry on the epic sundae! 
Sage JoWii
Smash Champion
TO ALL KIRBIES (except sunday tournament-goers)!
Skype chat @ 2pmCST on Sunday!!!!
Be there, or be a MK meatrider.
Skype chat @ 2pmCST on Sunday!!!!
Be there, or be a MK meatrider.
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
I dun wanna meatride!
*Insert work johns here*
*Insert work johns here*
Tourney in PR on sunday, guess Twink and me are MK meatriders.
Tourney in PR on sunday, guess Twink and me are MK meatriders.
confirmed for mods don't read tier
Uhh...
Twink, you can vouch for me by clicking on that link or the link below JoWii's post, then clicking "compare versions".
You people got OOWWNNEEDD!
Damn... Well at least I know I can read.
Sage JoWii
Smash Champion
Kewkky may or may not know how to read, and I may or may not have editted my post.
In other news, how the **** do I find **** worth reading on Tumblr
P.S.- Don't forget tmrw, the Kirby Skype chat @ 2pmCST.
In other news, how the **** do I find **** worth reading on Tumblr
P.S.- Don't forget tmrw, the Kirby Skype chat @ 2pmCST.
Tiersie
Smash Ace
Yoshi is definitely in our advantage, I play yoshi's all the time and we have tools to punish EVERYTHING. Yoshi's love to aerial through you and land behind but our bair oos makes quick work of that, we can crouch all of yoshi's grabs and have sublime tools to catch his jump! Kewkky you really shouldn't settle for anything less than our advantage on that one.
what! are you serious?!
Does this mean I should stop using Fox vs Yoshi?!
Lord Viper
SS Rank
☆ Yoshi is one of those characters I don't play enough to know it's an advantage match up. If Kirby is able to crouch under Yoshi's grabs, that would make the Yoshi match up much easier and faster to perform. ☆