Kahoka Me Your Moves!---MW-W Circuit Event #3---May 1-3; Kahoka, MO

[MetalMusicMan]

Okay I just read some of the infinite discussion here and I'm just going to argue for the sake of arguing...

My official stance on the DeDeDe infinites is "I don't care if they are banned, but it's stupid to ban them."

Counter picking is a part of the game. If you play Donkey Kong, you need to live with it and learn a counter character. The competitive scene was not designed to cater to people who are too lazy to counter pick.

I wouldn't ban any infinites. For King Dedede's infinite, you can counter it by just not using DK. Either way, DK is basically the Ganondorf of this game; he's really good in general but gets caught in a really nasty chaingrab by a really good character. Sure, Sheik's chaingrab on Ganondorf wasn't infinite (though it was really devastating!), but King Dedede isn't as good as Sheik was so it seems to balance out to me. The Sheik chaingrab was really worse than King Dedede's stuff since it totally wrecked about half the cast who were already wondering how to beat the totally fantastic Sheik, and it was never banned.

As per the Ice Climbers, banning their infinites is pointless. It's the only good thing about them so you might as well just ban the Ice Climbers directly. Yeah, those chaingrabs are lame and really dangerous, but just ban Final Destination (as in, the player uses the stage ban on it), and you should be able to handle it assuming you aren't using Ganon or something like that. On the other hand, if the Ice Climbers can't chaingrab infinite, what do they do? You can just kinda throw yourself at them and probably will hit Nana away, and by herself she's pretty vulnerable. Popo by himself is worse than Captain Falcon and super easy to beat. It just seems unfair to make an otherwise good character bad when they really don't break the game already.

This man knows what he is talking about.

Banning the IC infinites is ridiculous. They are gay but they are not broken or overpowered. There's not any reason to debate this further, really. ...but I will if someone wants to

As a DeDeDe / Metaknight main I can honestly say that I wouldn't care if the D3 infinites were banned from a win/lose standpoint.

However, it is BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that they should not be banned.



I will elaborate...

Reguarding the "infinite" on Luigi/Mario/Samus...

It's not even a real infinite passed 5 grabs unless you are grabbing them at an existing high percent where you can pummel them enough to reset the stale moves list (80% or so I think).

These three are now official infinites, just only starting at around 50%, depending on how good the person is at breaking throws. ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23UyrHXK36A

You can break out of it.

How people still don't know that, I don't understand. It's really circumstantial and not guaranteed or super duper easy like it is on DK/Bowser.

King DeDeDe is not what keeps Samus / Mario / Luigi from winning. Plain and simple.



So essentially, you are only banning the infinite on TWO CHARACTERS (Bowser and DK). ... and it is STILL a dumb idea.

On Bowser / Donkey Kong, the infinites are really really easy to do, and this is what people see as a problem. Firstly, it's not a huge ordeal, they are still going to lose to DeDeDe without them anyway. Secondly, IT'S TWO CHARACTERS. TWO. Learn to counter pick.

Banning them is dumb because even without them it is still a bad matchup. It's not like Donkey Kong is magically viable against DeDeDe without the infinite... he still has a terrible matchup and is still very counter pickable. That's just how it is.

---

TLDR -- Banning them is stupid because it doesn't make things better for DK or worse for DeDeDe, and you shouldn't ban it to begin with because counter picking is part of the game.

 

[Cook]

Hey der, put me in that there new-fangled list of people who are certainly coming and whatnots.

... you can count on random people from my crew coming, hopefully. Kolby / Seth / Mahony maybe / probably.

Legan will most likely come. Toga will maybe come if Legan bugs him enough.

Legan said he's gonna be in Jamaica. Also, who is Mahony???

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Legan said he's gonna be in Jamaica. Also, who is Mahony???

JAMAICA!?!?!? ****.

Kevin is Mahony. The lucario NOOOOOOOOB. lulz.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

King Dedede actually steps forward against Bowser; does that count as a standing infinite? It does eventually end when you run out of stage (though it takes a long time unless you start close to the ledge).

Also, King Dedede can infinite himself and Wolf against the edge of stages with particular spacing. Does that count?

To clarify the mechanics of King Dedede's non-standard chaingrabs, he can infinite DK with no issues, only step forward a small amount against Bowser but eventually run out of stage, step forward more but not quite do a standard run against himself and Wolf and also infinite these two against the ledge, and can standing infinite Mario, Luigi, and Samus eventually, but they get out if his down throw gets stale enough so he has to mix in pummels. It's possible to break the grab with just one pummel used as high as 130% (maybe even higher; 130% is Reflex level).

Also, speaking of standing infinites, Yoshi can infinite Wario without moving with the whole release grab thing (there are actually a lot of characters who can do this). Does that fall into the ban? Since Marth and Charizard are just stepping forward against Ness and Lucas just as much as King Dedede does against Bowser, how does that factor in?

Don't misinterpret me here; I'm just asking what your policy is. If you lay it out now (however you do), it just removes the possibility of day of the tournament issues.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Right-- Bowser's is also not a true infinite. I failed to mention that.

Most of the time when it is listed as banning DeDeDe's infinites, it says "DeDeDe must run in between grabs unless the opponent is against a wall" or something there-of. To make sure it includes Bowser's small-step grab in the list of "infinites" even though it is not an infinite.

Even then, Ampharos still makes the best point of all, which is that there are too many blurred lines and not enough reason to ban it in the first place.

Banning it is just dumb and caters to whiners that not only don't understand that it ISN'T an infinite to begin with; it counters the whole point of the game by trying to make characters that are nonviable viable simply because they have bad matchups, when in fact DeDeDe is not the reason that the characters are nonviable to begin with.

Go try to find a video of DeDeDe infiniting Luigi, Mario, or Samus in a matchup. I have yet to see one. Ever.

 

[FrozenFire13]

I fail to see why there is even a discussion about DDD's infinite when it only affects so few characters. Whereas IC's can be done to ANYBODY 0 to death without ANY way of getting out. When you have absolutely no control or ability to escape from something that automatically kills you, it's broken. If it isn't, then what's the definition of broken? I'm failing to see how there is something more unfair. I'm just asking for an explanation. If DDD's infinite is being discussed about banning, then I don't see how IC's is not also in the discussion.

 

[Affinity]

After seeing AA's and MMM's arguments, I'm going to have to change my stance. Don't ban any infinites.

I fail to see why there is even a discussion about DDD's infinite when it only affects so few characters. Whereas IC's can be done to ANYBODY 0 to death without ANY way of getting out. When you have absolutely no control or ability to escape from something that automatically kills you, it's broken. If it isn't, then what's the definition of broken? I'm failing to see how there is something more unfair. I'm just asking for an explanation. If DDD's infinite is being discussed about banning, then I don't see how IC's is not also in the discussion.

People have already explained. The infinite is all the ICs have, and their grab range is terrible.

Just don't get grabbed.

 

[CR4SH]

KENTUCKY!? is definitely going to be there. Me and Hilt for sure, probably a few others. I'm mostly posting so you can put me in the "confirmed setups" list.

Also, you should ban the infinite because I play Luigi and you want me to do well.

Edit: how did I get this sweet new green name?

 

[LouBega]

KENTUCKY!? is definitely going to be there. Me and Hilt for sure, probably a few others. I'm mostly posting so you can put me in the "confirmed setups" list.

Also, you should ban the infinite because I play Luigi and you want me to do well.

Edit: how did I get this sweet new green name?

i doubt we'll ban the infinite since i picked up ddd.

just kidding, it doesn't really matter to me either way.

the green names are kind of bothering me.

 

[PEEF!]

Good chance I'm game for this. Depends if I'm in the mood for Brawl funzies/visitation of historical Indian mounds.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

KENTUCKY!? is definitely going to be there. Me and Hilt for sure, probably a few others. I'm mostly posting so you can put me in the "confirmed setups" list.

Also, you should ban the infinite because I play Luigi and you want me to do well.

Edit: how did I get this sweet new green name?

bring neji/cc-spec plz. me and him have a little date :D

 

[Steeler]

Kentucky should bring Rowan.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

hahaha if rowan wants to come. he's been off and on tournament wise, so not sure if he will or not.

hopefully he will though.

as for spec... lol, no idea. he never tells us if he's for sure coming until last minute :x

 

[Xisin]

Hi everyone! Just dropping a line.

 

[Cook]

Hi everyone! Just dropping a line.

Don't be a tease!

 

[Cook]

Oh, I guess I should address the whole infinite debate. Um, so Zash and Peeks are for banning stuff, while Affinity, Metal, Ampharos, Nicole (maybe more, now I forgot) are against banning. Are there any more opinions? I would prefer to just do what is most popular, to be honest...

 

[Nicole]

tell people to shower and brush their teeth before they show up on the first page!

also, rowan should come, i want to play him again, especially now that i play peach a little!

also, hey xisin! my GW has become a real marth slayer lately, we'll have to play some friendlies again for sure!

 

[Cook]

Slight rule change.

 

[lain]

It has nothing to do with the difficulty of it. Lain has lost to people who are not using metaknight recently, and he's an insanely good player without ICs. Chain grabs do not make a bad player good just because they have the tech skill to pull it off.

Fact.

EXCEPTFOR, I've only recently lost to Ally and Anther in the past couple months.

this has been a lain PSA

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Oh, I guess I should address the whole infinite debate. Um, so Zash and Peeks are for banning stuff, while Affinity, Metal, Ampharos, Nicole (maybe more, now I forgot) are against banning. Are there any more opinions? I would prefer to just do what is most popular, to be honest...

come now. this is the midwest! banning things? pfft. that's not what happens in the midwest.

Just look at your stage list. Port Town? Green greens? Nothing gets banned in this region.
(<3 MW)

I'm pretty anti ban when it comes to the infinites. I think that if DDD's infinites should be banned, then the IC's infinite should be as well. And banning the climber's infinites is stupid, which would contradict banning DDD's. Either ban them both, or neither (preferably neither). Are pika's chaingrabs gonna be banned as well? What about marth's grab release on ness/lucas?

As far as i can tell, the infinite isnt a major problem in this area (correct me if i'm wrong). Banning them like this would be like banning meta knight. And at a circuit event no less.

But i'm several several hours away, so my opinion doesnt matter as much :x

 

[Cook]

tell people to shower and brush their teeth before they show up on the first page!

also, rowan should come, i want to play him again, especially now that i play peach a little!

also, hey xisin! my GW has become a real marth slayer lately, we'll have to play some friendlies again for sure!

Play Peach a little? You've beaten the newly self-proclaimed Best Fino in the Midwest!

 

[Light_13]

Me and spec are for sure coming to this event........well maybe like a n 80% chance but hey thats better than our other tournament attend percents.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Thank goodness the intelligent people are coming out of the woodwork.

Get that regrab **** off the rule list already, ASC, or we look like dumb scrubs for our circuit event.

 

[neji32]

bring neji/cc-spec plz. me and him have a little date :D

I wouldnt miss our date for the world xD

 

[Fino]

I wouldnt miss our date for the world xD

FREE MONIES!!!


~Fino

 

[animeblitzballa33]

Thank goodness the intelligent people are coming out of the woodwork.

Get that regrab **** off the rule list already, ASC, or we look like dumb scrubs for our circuit event.

Many lulz... Congrats, you win the internet, good for you.

 

[Cook]

Thank goodness the intelligent people are coming out of the woodwork.

Get that regrab **** off the rule list already, ASC, or we look like dumb scrubs for our circuit event.

No need for name-calling.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

I get carried away sometimes. I hope you know it's all love <3

Seriously though... let's not be scrubbies.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

-Hygiene is mandatory. This includes deodorant and (per Nicole's request) brushing of the teeth!

This rule is going to pretty much prevent all Wario mains from attending.

 

[CR4SH]

I think that if DDD's infinites should be banned, then the IC's infinite should be as well. And banning the climber's infinites is stupid, which would contradict banning DDD's. Either ban them both, or neither (preferably neither).
Banning them like this would be like banning meta knight.

Come now hilt. That's a pretty garbage debate point. Full of logical fallacy. Either D3's infinite is banworthy or it isn't, IC's chaingrabs are an entirely different point. Not that I care much about it either way, I just expect better from you .

As for my actual opinion, all jokes aside, I think the rule is perfect the way it is.

FREE MONIES!!!

I'd like to put some monies on spec against you. Do you accept?

Also, to everyone that's saying "bring rowan plzz!" play xisin. He's at least as good as rowan at this point.

 

[Cook]

Also, to everyone that's saying "bring rowan plzz!" play xisin. He's at least as good as rowan at this point.

Does Xisin play Peach now? I thought he played Marth?



Oh, and I've removed the infinite rule for now since most people seem to not want it. There's still a whole month before this tournament, though, so it could end up coming back if there is demand or whatever.

 

[CR4SH]

No he still plays marth. He's probably just the best player in kentucky.

 

[Xisin]

tell people to shower and brush their teeth before they show up on the first page!

also, rowan should come, i want to play him again, especially now that i play peach a little!

also, hey xisin! my GW has become a real marth slayer lately, we'll have to play some friendlies again for sure!

thats cool, We'll have to play a set or two if i do end up coming iono the outlook atm. I've got some new things since our last set however so be ready for them

 

[neomadgic]

I'll try to get MN to come to this. This unfortunately lands on the same day as a WI tourney (which is closer).

 

[Nicole]

This rule is going to pretty much prevent all Wario mains from attending.

That's the idea! F*** Wario, I hate fighting that guy.

Also, I think I know one Wario mainer who sometimes showers, but rarely brushes his teeth named Kit or something, so he might still show up.

 

[LouBega]

i play wario now too! and i only shower when i'm not depressed, so, like once a week. but i shower before tournaments always unlike people named andrew that i know, who i won't name. out of respect to him (andrew).

 

[Kit Cal-N]

This rule is going to pretty much prevent all Wario mains from attending.

That doesn't really make sense.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

i play wario now too! and i only shower when i'm not depressed, so, like once a week. but i shower before tournaments always unlike people named andrew that i know, who i won't name. out of respect to him (andrew).

you're not talking about me are you ;O

Spoiler

has the same name as cook

 

[Stealth Raptor]

Come now hilt. That's a pretty garbage debate point. Full of logical fallacy. Either D3's infinite is banworthy or it isn't, IC's chaingrabs are an entirely different point. Not that I care much about it either way, I just expect better from you .

As for my actual opinion, all jokes aside, I think the rule is perfect the way it is.



I'd like to put some monies on spec against you. Do you accept?

Also, to everyone that's saying "bring rowan plzz!" play xisin. He's at least as good as rowan at this point.

ill take this on him vs me.

 

[neji32]

ill take this on him vs me.

Now Now stealth, side bets against rival pikas may be a bit too epic. Looks like theres no letting up for a couple months, gotta retain skill. I should have the advantage though stealthypoo. Im playin anther in a couple weeks =D better be prepared


PikaPikaaaaaaaa!!!!