K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

[SmashChu]

It's a Sakurai philosophy to not make a sequel unless he can invent "a different direction" to take the series. Which is well-intentioned on paper, but at this point in the series' lifespan, it's doing more harm than good. Babies (Adventure Mode, classic mini-games, Ice Climbers) are being thrown out with the bathwater in favor of shallow replacements (Smash Run, collectible power-ups). The existence of the 3DS version absolutely reeks of "wanting to do something different" in particular, since there was no reason to develop both at once, other than to promote that as a flashy new gimmick.

Retro would not only have a fresh, original Western approach to the series, but has a well-developed track record of actually caring what makes the series they work on great to begin with. I'd trust Smash in their hands entirely. David Wise would become a composer for sure, for an added bonus.

Re: all the Kid Icarus talk going on, no one should be too hard on the series itself; it's Sakurai himself that's the problem, not the series. Uprising was this close to being a Star Fox game, in which case we would have been stuck here complaining about Star Fox having more enemies than Mario, multiple new ATs, items, characters, etc.

I agree. The problem with that mindset is a sequel is suppose to be inherently the same as the predecessor, but new. This is why many Smash fans talk about characters and stages because that is what people want in a sequel. Now mind you, it's not just Sakurai but Nintendo in general. Mario Kart 7 and 8 defiantly follow this. Did we need hang gliders and anti gravity in Mario Kart? What people wanted was more tracks and items. I think the reason Brawl worked so well despite some of it's pratfalls was it tries to be a better game than Melee. Sakurai said they made it like the last Smash Brothers game, and it does feel that way. Smash 4 feels like "another Smash," which may not be all that bad if these games didn't come out every 6 to 7 years. I think Retro would have the passion to make the best Smash Brothers game. And again, some of these things would be cool if they gave us them and the other stuff as well (IC, Adventure, a real Classic Mode). Also, a friend of mine made a great point that what they should have done is made the 3DS game and spread out the Wii U release for about a year to give them time to polish it. It would also be good as the team can add DLC characters (which would already be in the Wii U version) and balance patches.

 

[Pacack]

Why do you assume that Sakurai believed that? And as for Ganon, I think that's more Viridi not getting her facts straight, I'm pretty sure her comments were intended to be a joke and she really doesn't know anything about "Ganon canon." It certainly came off that she was making a fool of herself to me.

"The supreme commander of the Kremling Krew. King K. Rool steals bananas from Donkey Kong and ends up kidnapping Diddy Kong. He is so good at playing dead that sometimes the credits even roll as he lies there, feigning defeat. His brother, Kaptain K. Rool, made an appearance in the game Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest."​

That's why. Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but it came across as misinformation on the writers' part in both situations.

 

[toadster101]

It can't be because all of the tracks that were on Jungle Japes are on other stages. Absolutely ALL of the past DK tracks are accounted for.

Actually, the DK Rap and Jungle from Barrel Blast are both missing. Granted, they'll probably be CDs, along with another handful of DK Island Swing remixes. I fully expect there to be an unlockable Zelda stage based on The Wind Waker HD.

 

[NATGamer]

Actually, the DK Rap and Jungle from Barrel Blast are both missing. Granted, they'll probably be CDs, along with another handful of DK Island Swing remixes. I fully expect there to be an unlockable Zelda stage based on The Wind Waker HD.

Why would they make a new Wind Waker stage? I am very certain Pirate Ship from Brawl is coming back. The main reason why Gerudo Valley was made for Smash 3DS is because there wasn't ever a stage based off of Ocarina of Time.

 

[toadster101]

Why would they make a new Wind Waker stage? I am very certain Pirate Ship from Brawl is coming back. The main reason why Gerudo Valley was made for Smash 3DS is because there wasn't ever a stage based off of Ocarina of Time.

The Great Sea music appears on Skyloft, so there's a very slim chance Pirate Ship will be returning. I would like to see a Forsaken Fortress stage, personally.

 

[AncientTobacco]

The Zelda wiki is wrong, Hyrule Historia says the same thing. Ganon in FSA is a brand new Ganon. In fact, the game makes it quite clear as well. Normally Ganondorf is resurrected or was released from a seal. In OOT, this is before Ganon was ever sealed, as he's the king of the Gerudo. In FSA, the Gerudo from this game/time period blatantly know who Ganondorf is and he's not a king at all. Its a new reincarnation of Ganondorf, not the original Ganon revived like in every other game.

However, it is true that this is the only exception. The Palutena's Guidance states that there are many incarnations of Ganondorf/Ganon, but that isn't true, there's only two to date.

On the "Ganon canon" codec, that really was disappointing. Even for a villain as iconic as Ganon, they couldn't get their facts straight.

Technically, the Ganons in alternate timelines are separate entities.

They all originate from OoT Ganondorf, but they're different from one another and exist in different realities.

 

[Kroconut]

I can scout the source if need be but I remember an interview with Retro back in 2010. Where they were talking of DKCR development and during that time they asked "well what about k.rool is he coming back?" And it was actually Miyamoto who asked "do we have to? Maybe we could create a whole new set of villains"

The reaction to the Tiki Tak Tribe was "they suck, they're so bland, we want the Kremlings back" so Retro was then all "w-wait just let us prove were capable of creating a cool new set of villains." So we got the Snomads in DKCTF. The reaction: "Wow they're great! We love the Snomad Vikings! BUT WE STILL WANT OUR KREMLINGS BACK!"

 

[Arcadenik]

This Smash feels more like a marketing tool for recent games then a celebration of Nintendo's overall history. I don't like that. Especially since it's very selective about what new stuff it markets. Developer's pets get shilled instead of the fans' favorites.

And the worst part is that it's still Smash, it's still at least 75% amazing, and we're all gonna buy it anyway....

You cannot blame Nintendo for using Smash as a marketing tool. Ever since Melee made the West aware of Fire Emblem and turned it into an international franchise, Nintendo likely realized they have the perfect marketing tool.

And they still put in fan favorites in Smash... those fan favorites were still in new games, upcoming games, and Virtual Console games.

Villager: advertising for New Leaf + fan favorite
Mega Man: fan favorite
Wii Fit Trainer: advertising for Wii Fit U
Rosalina: advertising for Super Mario 3D World + fan favorite
Little Mac: advertising for Punch-Out!! Wii / VC + fan favorite
Greninja: advertising for Pokemon XY
Mii Fighters: advertising for Tomodachi Life and Wii Sports Club and Wii Party U + fan favorites
Palutena and Dark Pit: advertising for Kid Icarus Uprising + fan favorites
Pac-Man: fan favorite
Robin and Lucina: advertising for Fire Emblem Awakening + fan favorites
Shulk: advertising for Xenoblade Chronicles X for Wii U and Xenoblade Chronicles for New 3DS + fan favorite
Bowser Jr.: advertising for New Super Mario Bros. U + fan favorites
Duck Hunt: advertising for Duck Hunt VC + fan favorite
Koopalings: advertising for New Super Mario Bros. 2 and Mario Kart 8 + fan favorites
Alph: advertising for Pikmin 3

 

[Thelimomon]

Technically, the Ganons in alternate timelines are separate entities.

They all originate from OoT Ganondorf, but they're different from one another and exist in different realities.

It looks like you're right. Four Swords Adventures is right after Twilight Princess in the timeline. So it wouldn't make sense if there just comes another Ganon out of nowhere. At first I thought Four Swords Adventures was before OoT, but I confused it with the original Four Swords. Here's a handy picture:

Spoiler

I assume it's the official timeline. And you can clearly see the "Ganondorf reincamted". I didn't play Four Swords Adventures, so I'm not an expert for this.

 

[Strofirko]

Is this the complaining thread or the K.rool thread?

 

[KingZing]

Villager: advertising for New Leaf + fan favorite
Mega Man: fan favorite
Wii Fit Trainer: advertising for Wii Fit U
Rosalina: advertising for Super Mario 3D World + fan favorite
Little Mac: advertising for Punch-Out!! Wii / VC + fan favorite
Greninja: advertising for Pokemon XY
Mii Fighters: advertising for Tomodachi Life and Wii Sports Club and Wii Party U + fan favorites
Palutena and Dark Pit: advertising for Kid Icarus Uprising + fan favorites
Pac-Man: fan favorite
Robin and Lucina: advertising for Fire Emblem Awakening + fan favorites
Shulk: advertising for Xenoblade Chronicles X for Wii U and Xenoblade Chronicles for New 3DS + fan favorite
Bowser Jr.: advertising for New Super Mario Bros. U + fan favorites
Duck Hunt: advertising for Duck Hunt VC + fan favorite
Koopalings: advertising for New Super Mario Bros. 2 and Mario Kart 8 + fan favorites
Alph: advertising for Pikmin 3

King K. Rool: Advertising for DKCR3: Kremling Kaos + DK64 VC release + Diddy Kong Racing U + fan favorite

I wish...

 

[StormC]

"The supreme commander of the Kremling Krew. King K. Rool steals bananas from Donkey Kong and ends up kidnapping Diddy Kong. He is so good at playing dead that sometimes the credits even roll as he lies there, feigning defeat. His brother, Kaptain K. Rool, made an appearance in the game Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest."​

That's why. Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but it came across as misinformation on the writers' part in both situations.

It might have just been a botched joke about K. Rool's paper-thin "disguise."

 

[TheRandomCities4]

King K. Rool: Advertising for DKC3: Kremling Kaos + DK64 VC release + Diddy Kong Racing U + fan favorite

I wish...

Yeah, Ninty is selective with their marketing.

Who can blame them? Lots of ways to make money, and they don't have to propitiate all the fans because they'll still make said money either way...

It's just the way it is.

I still say K. Rool, Krystal, and Isaac would be able to bring things to the Smash table not brought before by their franchises (Isaac obviously, because Golden Sun hasn't had a character before). If they're to be made as interesting playable characters, they would require Nintendo to look into their often overlooked origins. Perhaps these origins aren't relevant anymore?

I guess it unfortunately makes sense for Krystal and K. Rool in particular, though. I can't shake the feeling that Nintendo selectively avoids certain things originally made by Rareware...

Meanwhile, from Japan, a distant laugh is heard:

 

[AIM0001]

I can scout the source if need be but I remember an interview with Retro back in 2010. Where they were talking of DKCR development and during that time they asked "well what about k.rool is he coming back?" And it was actually Miyamoto who asked "do we have to? Maybe we could create a whole new set of villains"

The reaction to the Tiki Tak Tribe was "they suck, they're so bland, we want the Kremlings back" so Retro was then all "w-wait just let us prove were capable of creating a cool new set of villains. So we got the Snomads in DKCTF. The reaction: "Wow they're great! We love the Snomad Vikings! BUT WE STILL WANT OUR KREMLINGS BACK!"

Very good point. I myself never was against having snomads and other creatures or tribes being in DKCR. But to me it all has to lead to K. Rool & his kremlings being the mastermind of it all. New enemies are always a good thing but at like the final world of both those games they could have had kremlings and K. Rool while still maintaining enemy variety for the rest of the game...To be fair Retro deserves to put their own mark on this monster franchise just like how they did with Metroid Prime.

I'd like the 3rd DKCR to tie it all to K. Rool being behind the Tiki Tak Tribe and the Snomads. I'm ok with that just as long as he finally returns!

 

[StormC]

If anything, I feel like having baddies unassociated with K. Rool terrorizing the Kongs makes the world feel more fleshed out.

 

[Richard 89]

Once Nintendo finally localizes Mother 3, gives us a new F-Zero and brings back K. Rool in some capacity, they will be the greatest company to ever exist. I have a feeling all 3 of these things will happen by 2017.

off topic: K. Rool in 2017, hmm sounds right but last night I thought about the smash releases of past as in order from melee to smash 4:

Melee:2002 Brawl:2008 Smash 3DS/U: 2014 Smash 5?: 2020

See the pattern the releases follow? A 6 year margin. On topic I predict K. Rool will be in the next smash in 2020, if not, then we'll see him in 2017 or sooner.

 

[StormC]

Melee was 2001, actually.

 

[NATGamer]

off topic: K. Rool in 2017, hmm sounds right but last night I thought about the smash releases of past as in order from melee to smash 4:

Melee:2002 Brawl:2008 Smash 3DS/U: 2014 Smash 5?: 2020

See the pattern the releases follow? A 6 year margin. On topic I predict K. Rool will be in the next smash in 2020, if not, then we'll see him in 2017 or sooner.

I'm willing to bet money that Donkey Kong Country Returns 3 will happen in 2016 or 2017. And I'm also confident that K. Rool and the Kremlings will make their grand return in said game. If that doesn't happen, then I think K. Rool is gone forever.

 

[Cyberguy64]

I'm willing to bet money that Donkey Kong Country Returns 3 will happen in 2016 or 2017. And I'm also confident that K. Rool and the Kremlings will make their grand return in said game. If that doesn't happen, then I think K. Rool is gone forever.

Joining Wart and Tatanga as villains constantly waiting for their comeback.

 

[NATGamer]

Joining Wart and Tatanga as villains constantly waiting for their comeback.

But the thing is, Wart and Tatanga were only one time villains. They are very obscure and people really don't care for them. K. Rool has appeared in at least 10 games and is considered to be the main villain of the Donkey Kong franchise. The fact we haven't seen him in a game in 5 years and haven't seen him in a DK game in 15 years is downright ridiculous.

 

[Zombie Saurian]

But the thing is, Wart and Tatanga were only one time villains. They are very obscure and people really don't care for them. K. Rool has appeared in at least 10 games and is considered to be the main villain of the Donkey Kong franchise. The fact we haven't seen him in a game in 5 years and haven't seen him in a DK game in 15 years is downright ridiculous.

I also find it funny how DK is supposedly the only franchise where people don't give a sh*t if the main villain doesn't return. It's really hypocritical, because those who complain about K. Rool returning would be the same people probably saying how it would be devastating if Bowser was replaced forever, or Ganondorf.

By comparison, K. Rool is just as or probably even more villainous than the two.

 

[Arcadenik]

I also find it funny how DK is supposedly the only franchise where people don't give a sh*t if the main villain doesn't return. It's really hypocritical, because those who complain about K. Rool returning would be the same people probably saying how it would be devastating if Bowser was replaced forever, or Ganondorf.

By comparison, K. Rool is just as or probably even more villainous than the two.

Not a fair comparison. I think the older DK fans who grew up with the original DKC trilogy are more likely to complain about the lack of Kremlings in new DKC games... remember that there is about 11 years between DK64 and DKCR... 15 years with Tropical Freeze... that means there is a whole new generation of DK fans who did not grow up with the Kremlings. I think they are less likely to ask for Kremlings in future DKC games, much less K. Rool for Smash.

Bowser and Ganondorf didn't go away in Mario and Zelda games... and Mario and Zelda franchises didn't go on a hiatus for 10 years.

 

[Zombie Saurian]

Not a fair comparison. I think the older DK fans who grew up with the original DKC trilogy are more likely to complain about the lack of Kremlings in new DKC games... remember that there is about 11 years between DK64 and DKCR... 15 years with Tropical Freeze... that means there is a whole new generation of DK fans who did not grow up with the Kremlings. I think they are less likely to ask for Kremlings in future DKC games, much less K. Rool for Smash.

Bowser and Ganondorf didn't go away in Mario and Zelda games... and Mario and Zelda franchises didn't go on a hiatus for 10 years.

Actually, Ganon did have a hiatus.

 

[Arcadenik]

Actually, Ganon did have a hiatus.

When did this hiatus occur?

 

[IMainKingKRool]

Actually, Ganon did have a hiatus.

Isn't he technically on hiatus right now, excluding remakes?

Edit: Never mind, I was thinking of Ganondorf.

 

[Xzsmmc]

When did this hiatus occur?

After Twilight Princess, he didn't appear in a Zelda game until Link Between Worlds.

 

[Strofirko]

After looking back on this thread I noticed that the fanbases in general are blaming Sakurai for every bad choice that nintendo made over this 15 years,that's a little unfair.

 

[StormC]

If that doesn't happen, then I think K. Rool is gone forever.

I don't believe in "recurring characters are gone forever after a certain time period." Look at Captain Syrup. The Koopalings.

The fact we haven't seen him in a game in 5 years and haven't seen him in a DK game in 15 years is downright ridiculous.

No main DK game in 15 years. K. Rool did appear in King Of Swing, Jungle Climber, and Barrel Blast, remember.

 

[Turokman5896]

After looking back on this thread I noticed that the fanbases in general are blaming Sakurai for every bad choice that nintendo made over this 15 years,that's a little unfair.

Hardly... People are frustrated that sm4sh has an advert like quality to its roster. Many newcomers didn't have any or had relatively small support compared to many who were left out. And people will blame sakurai for that.

Now stop posting things like this here because this a k rool specific thread, and this is extremely general and honestly, a potential fire starter.

 

[Arcadenik]

After Twilight Princess, he didn't appear in a Zelda game until Link Between Worlds.

So, that's what? 7 years? You guys aren't counting Ocarina of Time 3D??? Because that would be a 5 year hiatus if you counted that game.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

I don't believe in "recurring characters are gone forever after a certain time period." Look at Captain Syrup. The Koopalings.





No main DK game in 15 years. K. Rool did appear in King Of Swing, Jungle Climber, and Barrel Blast, remember.

I think they mean him appearing in dk adventure/platforming games. But I agree with you about the spinoffs.

 

[Turokman5896]

So, that's what? 7 years? You guys aren't counting Ocarina of Time 3D??? Because that would be a 5 year hiatus if you counted that game.

Then k Rools absence is much shorter as well. And look at the Koopalings or GASP! duck hunt...

 

[BKupa666]

Disjointed thoughts on the past two pages or so:

--Yet again, here's the "These games count toward appearances because I say so, and these games don't count toward appearances because I say so" talking point (aka, why an entire generation of Smash fans are learning to not take the "relevance" argument seriously).

--It's easy to say "advertising is all that matters" when none of the very, very few characters who aren't promotional get in. Other than K. Rool, Isaac or Krystal, advertising can be argued for literally any character, especially considering retro characters and hiatus-taking veterans are written off as "not counting [because I say so]," even when it may not be the case.

--More younger fans are fans of the classic DKC than the stereotype of "young gamers only care about games within a time frame I personally dictate" would indicate. DKC was rereleased on the GBA (which introduced several Kutthroats in here to the series), as well as the VC, and is coming out on the Wii U VC once again (in Japan and Europe, and eventually the U.S.). Hell, DK Vine just had a(n alleged) nine-year-old make an account last week, eager to talk about Kremlings.

 

[cephalopod17]

I just got a Game Boy Advance and I was wondering should I get DKC Advance for it or should I wait for when DKC comes to the U.S e-shop? Either way, I am going to get it and see K. Rool in the first DKC game.

 

[Arcadenik]

Then k Rools absence is much shorter as well. And look at the Koopalings or GASP! duck hunt...

Duck Hunt was added as a retro rep.

You seriously cannot compare a retro character from a non-retro franchise (Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda, etc.) to a retro character from a retro franchise (Ice Climber, Duck Hunt, Game & Watch, etc.).

Also, the Koopalings aren't retro. They stopped being retro in 2009.

 

[Turokman5896]

Duck Hunt was added as a retro rep.

You seriously cannot compare a retro character from a non-retro franchise (Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda, etc.) to a retro character from a retro franchise (Ice Climber, Duck Hunt, Game & Watch, etc.).

Also, the Koopalings aren't retro. They stopped being retro in 2009.

Retro rep? The point is both were irrelevant. Who cares about "relevance" when nintendo pulls characters from the grave to star in all kinds of new titles not only smash.



Why do these people need to crawl from the woodwork to bother fans of a video game character?

 

[Arcadenik]

Retro rep? The point is both were irrelevant. Who cares about "relevance" when nintendo pulls characters from the grave to star in all kinds of new titles not only smash.



Why do these people need to crawl from the woodwork to bother fans of a video game character?

You are confusing relevancy with recency. Even if we conflated both definitions, Duck Hunt is relevant again thanks to Nintendo making a big deal out of Duck Hunt for Wii U Virtual Console... they actually bothered to reprogram the original code to allow us to use Wii Remotes and HD TVs when playing Duck Hunt.

I am a fan of K. Rool too.

 

[StormC]

I just got a Game Boy Advance and I was wondering should I get DKC Advance for it or should I wait for when DKC comes to the U.S e-shop? Either way, I am going to get it and see K. Rool in the first DKC game.

Wait for the eShop version. The GBA ports mess up the games' graphics and sound.

 

[Dairantō Smash Brothers]

I feel he still at least has a little bit of a chance after they finally brought back the Kremlings as enemies...

In Smash Run.

Wait for the eShop version. The GBA ports mess up the games' graphics and sound.

Actually, there is one good thing to come out of the DKC ports on the GBA, and that would be DKC3. New levels, new music, and graphics that aren't too bad.

 

[TheRandomCities4]

"Sweetly, sweetly, blew the breeze. On me alone, it blew." - A hypothetical quote from people who celebrate their most wanted characters getting in and denounce others' most wanted characters for not getting in.

Y'know, I'd figure that Nintendo could add literally any newcomer they'd want and Smash would still sell well. Familiarity comes with exposure.

I mean, look at Ness from Smash 64. Or Marth, Roy, Mr G & W, and Ice Climbers from Melee. Or R.O.B. from Brawl.

What I'm trying to get at is that people usually soften up to characters as they're introduced to the game--never mind their resistance to certain characters before they actually get in. I know I have felt this way to a lot of these characters I had no idea about (mainly referring to older Smash games).

It could work the other way around, too. For Nintendo, that is. What I mean here is that they don't have to abide by recency, relevancy, or whatever. The end result for the consumers from exposure would be the same.

However, if they do choose characters for certain reasons, we're not going to be able to stop them.

And still, I can't help but wonder about some of these other characters, such as K. Rool, etc...