K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

[saltybeach]

I don't think Dixie would be chosen over K. Rool. In Brawl, she was cut when Sakurai couldn't get her to work with Diddy in some team gimmick. And as we see in Smash 4, Diddy is again a complete solo character, so his original idea in Brawl still hasn't panned out, meaning Dixie would need to be a complete solo character (though whether he attempted it again or not is unknown as of now). Based on her solo merits, she's completely trumped by K. Rool in every way (popularity, moveset potential, added diversity to the cast). The only thing she has going for her over K. Rool is that she's female, but then, that isn't that unique when we have all the other new females added, while we still have yet to see any new villains nor heavyweights (as K. Rool obviously brings).

At this point, I think K. Rool will be in as a secret unlockable character, while Dixie again doesn't make it, though possibly later does through DLC.

Yea I agree. I just think that her even being considered for brawl at least gives her a larger chance than some people give her credit for.

 

[TCRhade]

Yea I agree. I just think that her even being considered for brawl at least gives her a larger chance than some people give her credit for.

LOVE your icon, Salty!

I can't stand the wait. Come already, Sept. 13th. (JP release)

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Yea I agree. I just think that her even being considered for brawl at least gives her a larger chance than some people give her credit for.

She was considered in Brawl because of the potential team dynamic with Diddy, and was then dropped when Sakurai couldn't get it to work, instead of making her a solo character. As such, with Diddy revealed again without her, I don't think it boosts her chances; if anything, it probably hurts her.

Responding to some of the other posts, I too thought DK was going to get two new characters, as Kirby did in Brawl. But with no new DK characters revealed when it's almost launch nor implicated in Gematsu, while Tropical Freeze was released just four months ago, I think we're just gonna get one now, as I figured we would have seen either Dixie or K. Rool by now if both were in.

 

[saltybeach]

LOVE your icon, Salty!

I can't stand the wait. Come already, Sept. 13th. (JP release)

Haha, thanks!

I think I am actually going to be conflicted if I want my summer to go by fast or slow lol.

She was considered in Brawl because of the potential team dynamic with Diddy, and was then dropped when Sakurai couldn't get it to work, instead of making her a solo character. As such, with Diddy revealed again without her, I don't think it boosts her chances; if anything, it probably hurts her.

Responding to some of the other posts, I too thought DK was going to get two new characters, as Kirby did in Brawl. But with no new DK characters revealed when it's almost launch nor implicated in Gematsu, while Tropical Freeze was released just four months ago, I think we're just gonna get one now, as I figured we would have seen either Dixie or K. Rool by now if both were in.

You can't really discount her chances just because diddy was revealed to be the same as brawl. It is understandable that she wouldn't be included in brawl as a seperate character considering how close she was to diddy. As for Smash 4, I doubt they would even considered changing a solid brawl character in diddy to fit an idea from the early brawl days, so diddy being the same doesn't really equal less chances for dixie on this basis. The thing that hurts dixie the most is by definition she is very similar to diddy.

 

[TCRhade]

You can't really discount her chances just because diddy was revealed to be the same as brawl. It is understandable that she wouldn't be included in brawl as a seperate character considering how close she was to diddy. As for Smash 4, I doubt they would even considered changing a solid brawl character in diddy to fit an idea from the early brawl days, so diddy being the same doesn't really equal less chances for dixie on this basis. The thing that hurts dixie the most is by definition she is very similar to diddy.

This, and the fact that she was still omitted when Diddy was revealed to coincide with Tropical Freeze.

I have a good feeling that K. Rool WILL be the DK newcomer if there is one.

But I too find it odd that we have NO DK stage reveals in the Wii U version.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

You can't really discount her chances just because diddy was revealed to be the same as brawl. It is understandable that she wouldn't be included in brawl as a seperate character considering how close she was to diddy. As for Smash 4, I doubt they would even considered changing a solid brawl character in diddy to fit an idea from the early brawl days, so diddy being the same doesn't really equal less chances for dixie on this basis. The thing that hurts dixie the most is by definition she is very similar to diddy.

A Diddy/Dixie team would have worked how Zelda/Sheik would, not like ICs, so it wouldn't really change Diddy other than replacing one of his moves for a "swap out" move. As such, I find it very plausible Sakurai would have tried implementing it again. That similarity to Diddy still applies in Smash 4 just as much as it did in Brawl, and when the tag team idea failed, it's likely she would be scrapped because of it, just like in Brawl. So with Diddy being revealed without her, while she is nowhere to be seen, yes it does hurt her. The prior precedent is still there, and it's not like Dixie is a significantly better candidate this time around than she was at Brawl's time to nullify it.

 

[saltybeach]

A Diddy/Dixie team would have worked how Zelda/Sheik would, not like ICs, so it wouldn't really change Diddy other than replacing one of his moves for a "swap out" move. As such, I find it very plausible Sakurai would have tried implementing it again. That similarity to Diddy still applies in Smash 4 just as much as it did in Brawl, and when the tag team idea failed, it's likely she would be scrapped because of it, just like in Brawl. So with Diddy being revealed without her, while she is nowhere to be seen, yes it does hurt her. The prior precedent is still there, and it's not like Dixie is a significantly better candidate this time around than she was at Brawl's time to nullify it.

Considering "transformations" are totally out in smash 4 I don't really find is very "plausible" that Sakurai would try to implement the dixie/diddy combination again. I would guess that the decision behind no transformations came very soon if not at the start of development.

And yes dixie IS a better candidate this time around than she was in brawl because it is expected by many that a 3rd DK rep would be in smash. And realistically the third rep could/should either be dixie or K rool. In brawl, diddy was expected to be in, while a third rep was unlikely(thus dixie being unlikely). Compared to smash 4 where a 3rd DK rep is expected to be in and dixie being one of the two logical choices(thus dixie being far more likely).

 

[TCRhade]

And I for one can't believe some people woud rather have a THIRD KONG than the frickin' main villain of most of the series. That'd be like Toad before Bowser while we have Mario, Luigi, Peach and Rosie.

 

[saltybeach]

And I for one can't believe some people woud rather have a THIRD KONG than the frickin' main villain of most of the series. That'd be like Toad before Bowser while we have Mario, Luigi, Peach and Rosie.

I don't think dixie has anywhere near a better chance than K Rool I just think that she at least has a chance. I would be pretty sad if she got in over him, but I love the DKC series so I would still be happy with at least some representation.

 

[TCRhade]

I wasn't saying she did, I just question the motives of some Donkey Kong fans. Why her over K. Rool, for some people? Just because of the Forbidden Seven and Tropical Freeze? Give me a break, lol. If I'm not mistaken, K. Rool has been in slightly more games than Dixie, no?

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Considering "transformations" are totally out in smash 4 I don't really find is very "plausible" that Sakurai would try to implement the dixie/diddy combination again. I would guess that the decision behind no transformations came very soon if not at the start of development.

And yes dixie IS a better candidate this time around than she was in brawl because it is expected by many that a 3rd DK rep would be in smash. And realistically the third rep could/should either be dixie or K rool. In brawl, diddy was expected to be in, while a third rep was unlikely(thus dixie being unlikely). Compared to smash 4 where a 3rd DK rep is expected to be in and dixie being one of the two logical choices(thus dixie being far more likely).

It's extremely likely Sakurai tried getting transformations to work, and then ended up cutting them when he couldn't get them to work properly on the 3DS version (you really think Sakurai would have willingly cut transformation gimmicks out from the getgo?), so that does not rule out that he didn't try getting a Diddy/Dixie team to work again.

And the capability to add more characters does not make Dixie herself a better candidate. Dixie's own status is not anything notably better than it was in Brawl's time, she's just as similar to Diddy now as she was then, she still does not bring much diversity to the roster, and her competition is still strong. As such, with the Diddy teamup not happening again, her chances are much lower than K. Rool's, and hinges on if Sakurai would put four DK characters on the roster (which while I thought likely before, doesn't look like it's happening, since I'm certain we would have seen Dixie by now if both were on). I think it's more likely really that we get no new DK characters, rather than get Dixie but no K. Rool.

 

[saltybeach]

It's extremely likely Sakurai tried getting transformations to work, and then ended up cutting them when he couldn't get them to work properly on the 3DS version (you really think Sakurai would have willingly cut transformation gimmicks out from the getgo?), so that does not rule out that he didn't try getting a Diddy/Dixie team to work again.

And the capability to add more characters does not make Dixie herself a better candidate. Dixie's own status is not anything notably better than it was in Brawl's time, she's just as similar to Diddy now as she was then, she still does not bring much diversity to the roster, and her competition is still strong. As such, with the Diddy teamup not happening again, her chances are much lower than K. Rool's, and hinges on if Sakurai would put four DK characters on the roster (which while I thought likely before, doesn't look like it's happening, since I'm certain we would have seen Dixie by now if both were on). I think it's more likely really that we get no new DK characters, rather than get Dixie but no K. Rool.

I think either of us trying to guess what happened in early stages of development in order to prove our points is stupid(yes I do believe they cut transformations before they tried to get them to work).

You don't seem to understand, I never said dixie's chances are better than K Rools, because they aren't. I was just stating that she at the very least is a threat to K Rools chances. Also, how is dixie's status not more notable now than during brawl in comparison to K Rool? As much as I love him K Rool hasn't been the main Villain in the DK universe in ALONG time. Dixie was a playable character in the most recent DK game. Since brawl Rool has been slowly fading even farther and farther into nothingness </3 while dixie is still a center piece of the series.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I wasn't saying she did, I just question the motives of some Donkey Kong fans. Why her over K. Rool, for some people? Just because of the Forbidden Seven and Tropical Freeze? Give me a break, lol. If I'm not mistaken, K. Rool has been in slightly more games than Dixie, no?

Slightly more main games, yeah.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I think either of us trying to guess what happened in early stages of development in order to prove our points is stupid(yes I do believe they cut transformations before they tried to get them to work).

You don't seem to understand, I never said dixie's chances are better than K Rools, because they aren't. I was just stating that she at the very least is a threat to K Rools chances. Also, how is dixie's status not more notable now than during brawl in comparison to K Rool? As much as I love him K Rool hasn't been the main Villain in the DK universe in ALONG time. Dixie was a playable character in the most recent DK game. Since brawl Rool has been slowly fading even farther and farther into nothingness </3 while dixie is still a center piece of the series.

I think it's a safe assumption, because we all know how Sakurai loves to add gimmicks to characters whenever possible, and character transformations is one of the big ones. In fact I think sometime around E3 2013, he stated in an interview how he hasn't cut anyone yet, which implies he was working on getting Pokemon Trainer to work (whose entire gimmick resolves around transformations).

And I know you're not saying she's more likely than K Rool, I just think you're overstating Dixie's chances and the "threat" she poses to K Rool's chances. Yes, I'm aware she's in Tropical Freeze, though I think that pretty much brings her back up to around her status before Brawl, rather than propels her above it (as she went through that long period after Brawl where she wasn't in anything before Tropical Freeze). In fact, her being in Tropical Freeze is one of the big things making me doubt her, as I would think she would have been revealed by now to promote it (fitting in with the rest of the newcomers revealed, who had recent games or a revived franchise to promote). Regarding K Rool, I think the OP addresses the relevance issue; despite it, K Rool is still one of the most popular character requests around the world, while he's still seen as the main antagonist in the Donkey Kong series, so he's certainly not forgotten, and he is still one of the potential newcomers who would bring the most diversity to the cast.

 

[saltybeach]

I think it's a safe assumption, because we all know how Sakurai loves to add gimmicks to characters whenever possible, and character transformations is one of the big ones. In fact I think sometime around E3 2013, he stated in an interview how he hasn't cut anyone yet, which implies he was working on getting Pokemon Trainer to work (whose entire gimmick resolves around transformations).

And I know you're not saying she's more likely than K Rool, I just think you're overstating Dixie's chances and the "threat" she poses to K Rool's chances. Yes, I'm aware she's in Tropical Freeze, though I think that pretty much brings her back up to around her status before Brawl, rather than propels her above it (as she went through that long period after Brawl where she wasn't in anything before Tropical Freeze). In fact, her being in Tropical Freeze is one of the big things making me doubt her, as I would think she would have been revealed by now to promote it (fitting in the rest of the newcomers revealed, who had recent games or a revived franchise to promote). Regarding K Rool, I think the OP addresses the relevance issue; despite it, K Rool is still one of the most popular character requests around the world, while he's still seen as the main antagonist in the Donkey Kong series, so he's certainly not forgotten, and he is still one of the potential newcomers who would bring the most diversity to the cast.

Once again I will state that theory crafting about development to prove a point either way is stupid. How do you know that by not "cutting anyone" he isn't talking about all three pokemon being separate characters? If all three pokemon were still in the game, I wouldn't count that even close to a cut.

Brawl was released in 2008, a time where the most recent titles where DK Jungle Climber and Donkey Kong Barrel Blast(2007). Both of these games where not received that well and neither of them have anywhere near the hype/sales that Tropical Freeze had, meaning much less relevance for dixie then in comparison to today.

Dixie not being shown to coincide with Tropical Freeze as a negative factor against her is a FAR reach in my opinion. Why didn't they show Shulk at E3 when his game was at the hypest point so far? We can both make assumptions all we want but it is futile so I am done arguing about it.

Dixie is a threat. She is the only legitimate character for the 3rd DK slot besides K rool. Just strictly based on who could fill the slot she by default has a 50% chance barring no other factors. Seems threatening enough for me.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Once again I will state that theory crafting about development to prove a point either way is stupid. How do you know that by not "cutting anyone" he isn't talking about all three pokemon being separate characters? If all three pokemon were still in the game, I wouldn't count that even close to a cut.

Brawl was released in 2008, a time where the most recent titles where DK Jungle Climber and Donkey Kong Barrel Blast(2007). Both of these games where not received that well and neither of them have anywhere near the hype/sales that Tropical Freeze had, meaning much less relevance for dixie then in comparison to today.

Dixie not being shown to coincide with Tropical Freeze as a negative factor against her is a FAR reach in my opinion. Why didn't they show Shulk at E3 when his game was at the hypest point so far? We can both make assumptions all we want but it is futile so I am done arguing about it.

Dixie is a threat. She is the only legitimate character for the 3rd DK slot besides K rool. Just strictly based on who could fill the slot she by default has a 50% chance barring no other factors. Seems threatening enough for me.

The whole Pokemon Trainer thing is considered a character itself; if the three PT pokemon were in individually, it's the cut of a character still, as the Pokemon Trainer concept does not exist anymore.

At the time of Brawl's release, Dixie was still regularly appearing in DK games and Mario sports spinoffs. Afterward, she was nowhere to be seen for six years until Tropical Freeze. That's a long stretch of nothingness bringing her down, and I would say Tropical Freeze madeup for that, rather than propel her beyond it. Tropical Freeze itself is not a huge success that would do anything more than that, so it can't really be said that her status now is better than it was at Brawl's time.

And a far reach? When all the newcomers revealed and implicated by Gematsu have been those with recent games or revived franchise to promote? It doesn't necessarily have to be at the release date of Tropical Freeze, but she would have been likely shown sometime before or after so they could use some Smash hype to boost its sales, or at least implicated by Gematsu, instead of being kept back as a secret character.

You can't bar other factors, otherwise you could make the claim that any somewhat realistic candidate like Funky Kong could be a "threat". And with all the factors in, K Rool trumps Dixie significantly, making it very unlikely she would get in over him. It doesn't seem like anything I say though will get you to change your thinking of it, so we can agree to disagree and wait to see what happens.

 

[saltybeach]

The whole Pokemon Trainer thing is considered a character itself; if the three PT pokemon were in individually, it's the cut of a character still, as the Pokemon Trainer concept does not exist anymore.

At the time of Brawl's release, Dixie was still regularly appearing in DK games and Mario sports spinoffs. Afterward, she was nowhere to be seen for six years until Tropical Freeze. That's a long stretch of nothingness bringing her down, and I would say Tropical Freeze madeup for that, rather than propel her beyond it. Tropical Freeze itself is not a huge success that would do anything more than that, so it can't really be said that her status now is better than it was at Brawl's time.

And a far reach? When all the newcomers revealed and implicated by Gematsu have been those with recent games or revived franchise to promote? It doesn't necessarily have to be at the release date of Tropical Freeze, but she would have been likely shown sometime before or after so they could use some Smash hype to boost its sales, or at least implicated by Gematsu, instead of being kept back as a secret character.

You can't bar other factors, otherwise you could make the claim that any somewhat realistic candidate like Funky Kong could be a "threat". And with all the factors in, K Rool trumps Dixie significantly, making it very unlikely she would get in over him. It doesn't seem like anything I say though will get you to change your thinking of it, so we can agree to disagree and wait to see what happens.

You still seem to think I believe dixie has a higher chance then K Rool based upon "disagree and wait to see what happens" we agree K Rool has a better chance so I don't see how "wait and see what happens" changes the fact we agree on this.

The bar other factors was meant to show in simplistic terms that she is his biggest threat. There is one slot for a 3rd DK rep if it is in the game. It is either dixie or K Rool unless Sakurai goes bat-**** crazy. She is basically fighting for his spot. I would say if the 3rd DK slot exists K rool has a 80% chance, and dixie has a 20% chance based on your "ideas". Maybe even less. EVEN at 10% dixie still poses the biggest threat to K Rool any other Nintendo character ever could.

You still seem to think I believe dixie has a higher chance then K Rool based upon "disagree and wait to see what happens" we agree K Rool has a better chance so I don't see how "wait and see what happens" changes the fact we agree on this.

The bar other factors was meant to show in simplistic terms that she is his biggest threat. There is one slot for a 3rd DK rep if it is in the game. It is either dixie or K Rool unless Sakurai goes bat-**** crazy. She is basically fighting for his spot. I would say if the 3rd DK slot exists K rool has a 80% chance, and dixie has a 20% chance based on your "ideas". Maybe even less. EVEN at 10% dixie still poses the biggest threat to K Rool than any other Nintendo character ever could.

EDIT: No matter how much we argue our points it doesn't change the fact no other character in the world poses a bigger threat. If you think there is I would love to hear it.
I swear I edited it. Didn't mean to double post.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

You still seem to think I believe dixie has a higher chance then K Rool based upon "disagree and wait to see what happens" we agree K Rool has a better chance so I don't see how "wait and see what happens" changes the fact we agree on this.

The bar other factors was meant to show in simplistic terms that she is his biggest threat. There is one slot for a 3rd DK rep if it is in the game. It is either dixie or K Rool unless Sakurai goes bat-**** crazy. She is basically fighting for his spot. I would say if the 3rd DK slot exists K rool has a 80% chance, and dixie has a 20% chance based on your "ideas". Maybe even less. EVEN at 10% dixie still poses the biggest threat to K Rool than any other Nintendo character ever could.

The thing I'm disagreeing with you about is that Dixie is a real "threat" we K Rool supporters should worry about. I too see Dixie at about a 10-20% chance of getting in instead, we just have a different perception on what a "threat" is then, as I don't really see something that unlikely to be something to be concerned about.

 

[saltybeach]

The thing I'm disagreeing with you about is that Dixie is a real "threat" we K Rool supporters should worry about. I too see Dixie at about a 10-20% chance of getting in instead, we just have a different perception on what a "threat" is then, as I don't really see something that unlikely to be something to be concerned about.

Yea, I guess we differ on our definition of a threat. I don't think she is a monster threat, I just think logically even at that 10-20% chance she poses the biggest threat for K Rool in comparison to any other character.

 

[bellboy64]

Yea, I guess we differ on our definition of a threat. I don't think she is a monster threat, I just think logically even at that 10-20% chance she poses the biggest threat for K Rool in comparison to any other character.

It really depends on Sakurai's thinking. I'm a little bit optimistic due to King K. Rool's "representation" in the past games.

Melee:
-Trophy
(Shows that he's aware and cared enough to show his existance)

Brawl:
-Trophy
(Once again show he's aware but here's where it's interesting to me. This trophy is a specific unlockable! Beat Target Smash 4 w/all characters if I'm not mistaken. That makes it a touch more special in my book. It's the main DK bad guy after all. Plus it's a pretty sweet model for the trophy. He looks almost there!!)

-Music
You can take this however you want but King K. Rool is NAME-dropped in the "King K. Rool / Ship Deck 2" track. And not just in the international releases! The Japanese release too! (Last I checked at least, on the JP Dojo site)

I'm grasping a little there but still! That's kinda neat!

-Sticker?
I haven't checked but there's bound to be at least one.


But yeah. You can chock it up to mere coincidence. It could very well be. I'm not basing my hopes on these merits alone- don't worry. But this is why I was ticked off whenever anyone brought up the "relevancy argument".
If that were the case I wouldn't have these little treasures to bring up here.

I'm sure he's coming. If not now, somewhere down the line. But finger's are crossed.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I don't think Dixie Kong is a threat to K. Rool getting in at all. If anything, due to the massive sales of Returns and the hype around Tropical Freeze, both were planned together with K. Rool as a higher priority. If Dixie doesn't make the cut in the main game she'll be DLC, that's how I see it. I don't see Dixie as a threat to K. Rool because both have potential together, and DK is big enough to have at least considered adding both. (Not that that's what Sakurai had in mind, but that's how I imagine it.)

 

[staindgrey]

Is it just me, or do Japanese developers lack interest in Donkey Kong games and characters?

Serious question. The games are consistently passed off to American developers, and the franchise never seems to be represented or milked in the same way that Mario, Zelda and Pokemon are. Perhaps it's different in Japan, but I'd argue that K. Rool is more easily recognized by common and casual Nintendo fans than Metaknight or Dedede. Am I wrong in assuming that?

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Perhaps it's different in Japan, but I'd argue that K. Rool is more easily recognized by common and casual Nintendo fans than Metaknight or Dedede. Am I wrong in assuming that?

Back in the Melee and even Brawl days, I would agree with that sentiment (I never even really played a DKC game in my childhood, yet knew who he was before I ever played Smash). Nowadays I would think Dedede is more recognisable, and maybe even Ridley, though I would still put K Rool in the top five most iconic Nintendo villains.

 

[staindgrey]

Back in the Melee and even Brawl days, I would agree with that sentiment (I never even really played a DKC game in my childhood, yet knew who he was before I ever played Smash). Nowadays I would think Dedede is more recognisable, and maybe even Ridley, though I would still put K Rool in the top five most iconic Nintendo villains.

In terms of casual fans around my age, I'd say Nintendo's iconic villains would go...

1. Bowser
2. K. Rool
3. Ganon
4. Dedede
5. Ridley

I only put K. Rool above Ganon because he's more immediately recognizable and memorable. Plenty of casual fans know Link/Zelda, but not necessarily Ganon. Same with Kirby and Dedede, and Samus and Ridley. K. Rool was so integral to the original Donkey Kong games that he essentially had Bowser status. It was hard to imagine a DK game without K. Rool in it.

I suppose it's different now, since K. Rool has been absent for some time. And I know that I'm biased because I played a lot of Donkey Kong when I grew up. But when I was imagining possibilities for Brawl villain characters, Dedede and Metaknight didn't even come to mind. K. Rool was my first choice. I'm starting to feel like that's a Western reaction.

 

[a Link to the Forums]

Guys, when you're arguing Dixie's chances are hurt due to Diddy being solo again we have to remember that Sakurai couldn't put in Dixie because they couldn't get their gimmick to work, not because Sakurai didn't want her and that Diddy was also part of that tag team but made it in. Plus, I don't see how the fact that they are still not together hurts her. Pretty much everyone this time around is having minimal changes to them.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Guys, when you're arguing Dixie's chances are hurt due to Diddy being solo again we have to remember that Sakurai couldn't put in Dixie because they couldn't get their gimmick to work, not because Sakurai didn't want her and that Diddy was also part of that tag team but made it in. Plus, I don't see how the fact that they are still not together hurts her.

It does hurt her, as when he couldn't get the gimmick to work, he scrapped her completely instead of putting her in as a solo character. That's not showing confidence in thinking she could be a legitimate character by herself.

Plus, I don't see how the fact that they are still not together hurts her. Pretty much everyone this time around is having minimal changes to them.

It hurts her because it is what happened to her before, and there's doubt she could get in by herself, not to mention that she would have very likely been revealed (or implicated in a credible leak) by now to use the Smash hype to promote Tropical Freeze. And that bit about "everyone having minimal changes" is bull****; have you seen Bowser? Have you seen Pit? Returning characters are going through more changes this time than they ever have in the transitioning between games, many characters have gotten significant changes, with some having their designs overhauled, and nearly everyone has at least one new move. Sakurai having tried to get the Diddy/Dixie team to work again is very plausible (and it's not like it would have required a overhaul of Diddy, as he would have just needed a move replaced with a "swap out" move).

 

[a Link to the Forums]

It hurts her because it is what happened to her before, and there's doubt she could get in by herself, not to mention that she would have very likely been revealed (or implicated in a credible leak) by now to use the Smash hype to promote Tropical Freeze. And that bit about "everyone having minimal changes" is bull****; have you seen Bowser? Have you seen Pit? Returning characters are going through more changes this time than they ever have in the transitioning between games, many characters have gotten significant changes, with some having their designs overhauled, and nearly everyone has at least one new move. Sakurai trying to get the Diddy/Dixie team to work again is very plausible (and it's not like it would have required a overhaul of Diddy, as he would have just needed a move replaced with a "swap out" move).

When I was saying "everyone [has] minimal changes" I meant most people and not in terms of designs like Ike. Yes Pit, Olimar and Bowser have been changed a lot but there are a lot more characters who have hardly any changes.

Also, I don't see how that she wasn't revealed to promote Tropical Freeze much. To you it might but I really don't. Yes, most character reveals have been during a certain event but it really comes down to Sakurai. He will reveal them when he reveals them or if they're unlockables.

It does hurt her, as when he couldn't get the gimmick to work, he scrapped her completely instead of putting her in as a solo character. That's not showing confidence in thinking she could be a legitimate character by herself.

When did they fully say they never thought her worthy of being solo? I am not saying what your saying is untrue but I'd like some evidence please.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

When I was saying "everyone [has] minimal changes" I meant most people and not in terms of designs like Ike. Yes Pit, Olimar and Bowser have been changed a lot but there are a lot more characters who have hardly any changes.

They haven't been "hardly changed", when nearly everyone has been shown with at least one new move, and many have had many changes done to them. Veterans are getting more adjustment this time around than they ever had before, so you can't use that as a reason that a Diddy/Dixie wouldn't have been attempted again (hell, Diddy had a pretty major change done to him even without the Dixie teamup, as he has those Dhalsim limbs now).

Also, I don't see how that she wasn't revealed to promote Tropical Freeze much. To you it might but I really don't. Yes, most character reveals have been during a certain event but it really comes down to Sakurai. He will reveal them when he reveals them or if they're unlockables.

What's the one thing that all the revealed and Gematsu implicated newcomers (bar third parties) have in common? They're characters from recent games or revived franchises to promote. As such, it appears that the pre-release newcomers are being those they can use to promote stuff, while those with nothing to promote (like K. Rool) are being kept back as secret unlockables. So with that said, I'm extremely doubtful that Dixie would be kept back as a secret unlockable if she was in, instead of using the Smash hype from her reveal to get some extra copies of Tropical Freeze sold. Unless she somehow managed to slip by the Gematsu leaker and gets revealed in the August direct, I think that's it for her.

When did they fully say they never thought her worthy of being solo? I am not saying what your saying is untrue but I'd like some evidence please. She could just have been cut for time.

Here's the thing about Dixie http://smashboards.com/threads/diddy-dixie-what-could-have-been.144627/

It doesn't specifically say she was deemed to not be viable solo, but I find it highly likely she was thought of as such, since she was just scrapped when the team idea fell through with nothing more to show for it but her one empty character file (she didn't even have an unused fanfare like Roy did to show she was ever worked on as a solo character).

 

[a Link to the Forums]

They haven't been "hardly changed", when nearly everyone has been shown with at least one new move, and many have had many changes done to them. Veterans are getting more adjustment this time around than they ever had before, so you can't use that as a reason that a Diddy/Dixie wouldn't have been attempted again (hell, Diddy had a pretty major change done to him even without the Dixie teamup, as he has those Dhalsim limbs now).

Honestly, I had no clue they had changed the most in this iteration of Smash. I wasn't around pre-Brawl times. The only Smash game I own is Brawl. So, to me, they didn't seem that significant of changes because they looked very similar. I thought Diddy's longer range wasn't too much of a big change either. So, my apologize for that.

What's the one thing that all the revealed and Gematsu implicated newcomers (bar third parties) have in common? They're characters from recent games or revived franchises to promote. As such, it appears that the pre-release newcomers are being those they can use to promote stuff, while those with nothing to promote (like K. Rool) are being kept back as secret unlockables. So with that said, I'm extremely doubtful that Dixie would be kept back as a secret unlockable if she was in, instead of using the Smash hype from her reveal to get some extra copies of Tropical Freeze sold. Unless she somehow managed to slip by the Gematsu leaker and gets revealed in the August direct, I think that's it for her.

I see your reasoning here but I still don't think it's much of an issue. I could point the gun at K Rool for not being revealed at E3 due to his insane popularity which would surely raise the excitment but I don't. Greninja was also from a new game (pokemon x and y) but revealed Lucario instead and later revealed Greninja months later. The only characters I think will be revealed at a certain time is 3rd-party characters to be revealed at E3.

Here's the thing about Dixie http://smashboards.com/threads/diddy-dixie-what-could-have-been.144627/

It doesn't specifically say she was deemed to not be viable solo, but I find it highly likely she was thought of as such, since she was just scrapped when the team idea fell through with nothing more to show for it but her one empty character file (she didn't even have an unused fanfare like Roy did to show she was ever worked on as a solo character).

Hm... Maybe. We can't tell whether she was scrapped because they thought her not worthy of a slot. I would think that since they did consider her playable would raise her chances though. You may disagree of course.


Let's just put this debate to a rest now. Personally I think she does stand a better chance than K Rool but you may think otherwise.

Can I ask you something? Do you even think there will be another DK character in? Assuming you believe the gematsu leak and no cuts.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Rosalina is our best hope basically as she also was never mentoined by Sal Romano's leak.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Can I ask you something? Do you even think there will be another DK character in? Assuming you believe the gematsu leak and no cuts.

Yes I believe Gematsu, and from my own evaluation of it and the newcomers revealed, I do not think that it's all the remaining newcomers. Judging by the times the leaker has leaked (E3s and Smash Direct), and how all the newcomers revealed and implicated are characters with recent games and revived franchises to promote, it seems to me that the guy is someone in marketing/advertising who gets a hold of the newcomers they plan to reveal, while the newcomers they plan to keep as secret unlockables (which is seeming to be the characters with nothing to promote) are not disclosed to him (not to mention he never said anything about Rosalina, nor claimed to have all the newcomers or the full roster). Plus I just don't see Sakurai leaving only two newcomers a secret this time, especially when one of the common casual complaints about Brawl was how few of the newcomers were secret unlockables. Additionally, 47 would be too low with 35 revealed prelaunch, much lower than the previous games' prerevealed to postrevealed ratios, having a lower amount than the previous games' expansion pattern, and assuming all prerevealed except third parties to be starters, has a lower starter-unlockable ratio than the previous games. So with all that said, I'm expecting a roster of 50-52, with 3 to 5 more secret newcomers.

Regarding a new DK character, I always thought a new DK character was one of the safest bets you could make about the Smash 4 roster. Before I even thought both K Rool and Dixie would make it in. Though with it now being three months before release with neither to be seen, I extremely doubt Dixie making it in anymore for reasons stated as I'm near certain she would have been shown by now or mentioned by the Gematsu leaker, while I still strongly think K Rool will make it in as a secret unlockable.

 

[MandoBardanJusik]

You know, the thing that has me suspicious about the Gematsu leak, is the fact that there isn't a single villain, and Sakurai always tries to add at least one, which as you guys point out leads to it being either a historic one, or an iconic one, and to the former, only retro villain I can think of is Zoda, and for the later is Ridley and K.Rool

I mean, the probabilities of us getting a villain is extremely high, and if you guys think of a viable one out of those three I mentioned, well I haven't played FE, Advance wars, or golden sun, but those are the only ones I can think of

 

[BirthNote]

It does hurt her, as when he couldn't get the gimmick to work, he scrapped her completely instead of putting her in as a solo character. That's not showing confidence in thinking she could be a legitimate character by herself.

You realize time constraints play a massive role in these scenarios right? Sakurai could've spent a lot of time trying to make this tag-team work, and when it didn't take off, there may not have been enough time to make her a standalone fighter and thus she got cut.

And I wouldn't rely on past instances too much considering Sakurai's unpredictability, what he initially said about the Villager being too peaceful, and SSB4's surprisingly up-to-date content (Sonic Lost World, Galaxy and NSMBU stages, W101 trophies, etc)

 

[JaidynReiman]

You know, the thing that has me suspicious about the Gematsu leak, is the fact that there isn't a single villain, and Sakurai always tries to add at least one, which as you guys point out leads to it being either a historic one, or an iconic one, and to the former, only retro villain I can think of is Zoda, and for the later is Ridley and K.Rool

I mean, the probabilities of us getting a villain is extremely high, and if you guys think of a viable one out of those three I mentioned, well I haven't played FE, Advance wars, or golden sun, but those are the only ones I can think of

The only two viable villains have nothing to promote. So it makes perfect sense they'd be unlockable. That being Ridley and K. Rool, of course. Captain Falcon doesn't have a second character, but there hasn't been another F-Zero game in forever anyway.


As for Time Constraints halting Dixie's development, I can believe that. Dixie was likely cut due to not getting the Diddy/Dixie tagteam combo to work again... which is also why I believe Dixie could later end up as DLC.

 

[KingZing]

Just out of curiosity, has Sakurai actually confirmed DLC characters?

 

[AncientTobacco]

Just out of curiosity, has Sakurai actually confirmed DLC characters?

No. In fact he stated last year that they have no plans for DLC.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No. In fact he stated last year that they have no plans for DLC.

He could've just not made the decision yet. And simply said no, just so not to dissapoint the fans. He can always go and pull a Villager with this one.

At least, let's hope so.

 

[Ridles the Space Pirate]

I think K. Rool has a better shot then Dixie. DK already got his sidekick, the villain should be next.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Just out of curiosity, has Sakurai actually confirmed DLC characters?

No, the leaker did. The leaker had some legit info for sure, but we can't be certain all of it is accurate.

 

[KingZing]

No. In fact he stated last year that they have no plans for DLC.

No, the leaker did. The leaker had some legit info for sure, but we can't be certain all of it is accurate.

Thanks. Well, in that case, I'd say we should not take DLC for granted.