K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

[BKupa666]

There's no issue, per se, and I don't think any of the specific people claiming "overrated" have any logical cases to make, but I figured it would be a valid topic of discussion. No matter what happens with K. Rool, the Kutthroat's legacy ought to be one of rationality and fair discussion, rather than an orgy of yes-men blinded by their own fanaticism (a few examples from both Brawl and now come to mind). This doesn't mean our approach should be "One side says he's got a good shot because he's popular and unique, the other side says he's irrelevant and competing with these characters, BOTH SIDES ARE EQUALLY VALID," but instead, to recognize what factors might be working against K. Rool, and evaluate their legitimacy in as unbiased a manner as possible. And conversely, to analyze what factors work in his favor, and determine how significant those are.

 

[Snagrio]

You'll all probably think of me as crazy for this, but I'm actually somewhat scared of what's to come, namely Tuesday. After all this buildup, all the months (and for some, years) of support and patience, the moment of truth is finally drawing near, possibly sooner then we know.

And I'm not just talking about K. Rool, but everyone we individually hope for. A split second will dictate our reactions of excitement or disappointment after this seemingly never-ending wait.

I guess you can say, these moments in time are both thrilling, and frightening.

 

[Welshy91]

There's no issue, per se, and I don't think any of the specific people claiming "overrated" have any logical cases to make, but I figured it would be a valid topic of discussion. No matter what happens with K. Rool, the Kutthroat's legacy ought to be one of rationality and fair discussion, rather than an orgy of yes-men blinded by their own fanaticism (a few examples from both Brawl and now come to mind). This doesn't mean our approach should be "One side says he's got a good shot because he's popular and unique, the other side says he's irrelevant and competing with these characters, BOTH SIDES ARE EQUALLY VALID," but instead, to recognize what factors might be working against K. Rool, and evaluate their legitimacy in as unbiased a manner as possible. And conversely, to analyze what factors work in his favor, and determine how significant those are.

So I have to be unbiased to be a Kutthroat? I'm in trouble.

 

[UltimateWario]

How popular was K. Rool pre-Brawl?

Because Sakurai looked at Pre-Brawl popularity, and I'm pretty sure Geno, Ridley, and K. Rool were the only largely popular characters that didn't get into Brawl.

 

[Xzsmmc]

You'll all probably think of me as crazy for this, but I'm actually somewhat scared of what's to come, namely Tuesday. After all this buildup, all the months (and for some, years) of support and patience, the moment of truth is finally drawing near, possibly sooner then we know.

And I'm not just talking about K. Rool, but everyone we individually hope for. A split second will dictate our reactions of excitement or disappointment after this seemingly never-ending wait.

I guess you can say, these moments in time are both thrilling, and frightening.

Not just you. We've known about this game for almost three years now, and have been seeing little tidbits for almost one year. Now, we're going to be seeing an awful lot of it, with our hopes and dreams for it riding on this. It's a little overwhelming, and I hope beyond hope we finally see our krocodilian king make his glorious return on the battlefield.

 

[Snagrio]

Not just you. We've known about this game for almost three years now, and have been seeing little tidbits for almost one year. Now, we're going to be seeing an awful lot of it, with our hopes and dreams for it riding on this. It's a little overwhelming, and I hope beyond hope we finally see our krocodilian king make his glorious return on the battlefield.

To be fair, it's not like this is end all be all (heck there's still E3). But otherwise yes, emotions are running high from every sector.

 

[APC99]

You'll all probably think of me as crazy for this, but I'm actually somewhat scared of what's to come, namely Tuesday. After all this buildup, all the months (and for some, years) of support and patience, the moment of truth is finally drawing near, possibly sooner then we know.

And I'm not just talking about K. Rool, but everyone we individually hope for. A split second will dictate our reactions of excitement or disappointment after this seemingly never-ending wait.

I guess you can say, these moments in time are both thrilling, and frightening.

Every point on the Smash Bros. spectrum feels this way.

Not just the big ones, like King K. Rool, Palutena, Chrom, Takamaru or the sort, almost every non-disconfirmed character fanbase is on their toes hoping for the best. Anything can possibly happen in this Direct, and nobody knows anything for sure. Ridley fans, Pac-Man fans, Mii fans, Lip fans, Waddle Dee fans, Shulk fans, Krystal fans, Dr. Kawashima fans, Birdo fans, everybody's looking for hope in this Direct. We have no idea of what will happen, but we'll all embrace it.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Prepare your bingo cards, folks.

 

[False Sense]

Prepare your bingo cards, folks.

Well, that's very nice and all, but... How exactly do you get a bingo on this?

 

[Pacack]

Well, that's very nice and all, but... How exactly do you get a bingo on this?

Obviously, Toon Zelda needs to be revealed.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Oh come on, we all know that getting bingo there is impossible. There's no chance of all of King K. Rool's brothers getting in.

 

[Groose]

There's no issue, per se, and I don't think any of the specific people claiming "overrated" have any logical cases to make, but I figured it would be a valid topic of discussion. No matter what happens with K. Rool, the Kutthroat's legacy ought to be one of rationality and fair discussion, rather than an orgy of yes-men blinded by their own fanaticism (a few examples from both Brawl and now come to mind). This doesn't mean our approach should be "One side says he's got a good shot because he's popular and unique, the other side says he's irrelevant and competing with these characters, BOTH SIDES ARE EQUALLY VALID," but instead, to recognize what factors might be working against K. Rool, and evaluate their legitimacy in as unbiased a manner as possible. And conversely, to analyze what factors work in his favor, and determine how significant those are.

Here's basically what I meant when I called his chances overrated--K. Rool is someone I could really see going either way. We supporters are so numerous and vocal that Sakurai had to have taken notice of him, but we can only have so many newcomers and there are others I expect to get in before him (not because they deserve it more, mind you, but because that seems to be the way the game is unfolding). We've already gotten five newcomers, and I doubt we'll get more than five or six more.

With all of the Kid Icarus stuff revealed already and Sakurai's bias, it's pretty clear that we're getting a Kid Icarus newcomer. Sakurai has stated that he's planning to do his best to revive old characters, so I think a Retro is a near-given. With the whole Pyrosphere situation and his own enormous popularity, I'd argue that Ridley's got a really good shot at making the cut. Love it or hate it, Pac-Man and Miis are probably happening because of development circumstances and the path Nintendo has taken recently.

That right there is five more probable newcomers after the five we already have--if only three or four of those five get in, we're still running out of spots. K. Rool is easily the biggest name left to add after that, but he still has some competition--Fire Emblem still has a large shot at getting a newcomer; Shulk is a popular pick in Japan, and Isaac is still noteworthy in the West; Sakurai loves throwing out surprises like the Wii Fit Trainer instead of just picking the popular characters. Heck, there's also other DK characters like Dixie Kong that could be considered because muhrelevancy; I'd say they're not nearly as likely as Rool, but they are still possibilities.

All things said, I think K. Rool still stands a very solid shot of getting in the game. I just don't think we should be getting our hopes up by thinking he's a shoo-in. I agree that he SHOULD be a shoo-in, but this isn't an ideal world.

...one thing to remember among all else, though--K. Rool is my most wanted character to appear in Smash and will be so until the day he is confirmed. I may say some bad things about his chances, but I still want the character more than anything else... I will still spread the doctrine of the Kutthroats far and wide and find new supporters as much as I can.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Here's basically what I meant when I called his chances overrated--K. Rool is someone I could really see going either way. We supporters are so numerous and vocal that Sakurai had to have taken notice of him, but we can only have so many newcomers and there are others I expect to get in before him (not because they deserve it more, mind you, but because that seems to be the way the game is unfolding). We've already gotten five newcomers, and I doubt we'll get more than five or six more.

With all of the Kid Icarus stuff revealed already and Sakurai's bias, it's pretty clear that we're getting a Kid Icarus newcomer. Sakurai has stated that he's planning to do his best to revive old characters, so I think a Retro is a near-given. With the whole Pyrosphere situation and his own enormous popularity, I'd argue that Ridley's got a really good shot at making the cut. Love it or hate it, Pac-Man and Miis are probably happening because of development circumstances and the path Nintendo has taken recently.

That right there is five more probable newcomers after the five we already have--if only three or four of those five get in, we're still running out of spots. K. Rool is easily the biggest name left to add after that, but he still has some competition--Fire Emblem still has a large shot at getting a newcomer; Shulk is a popular pick in Japan, and Isaac is still noteworthy in the West; Sakurai loves throwing out surprises like the Wii Fit Trainer instead of just picking the popular characters. Heck, there's also other DK characters like Dixie Kong that could be considered because muhrelevancy; I'd say they're not nearly as likely as Rool, but they are still possibilities.

All things said, I think K. Rool still stands a very solid shot of getting in the game. I just don't think we should be getting our hopes up by thinking he's a shoo-in. I agree that he SHOULD be a shoo-in, but this isn't an ideal world.

...one thing to remember among all else, though--K. Rool is my most wanted character to appear in Smash and will be so until the day he is confirmed. I may say some bad things about his chances, but I still want the character more than anything else... I will still spread the doctrine of the Kutthroats far and wide and find new supporters as much as I can.

This is all true, and you even forgot Mewtwo.

I think the King has a very solid shot, but he's no guarantee.

 

[Zynux]

Almost lost it at Toon Zelda.

@ Groose
Don't feel bad. Your reasoning is rational and valid. I too think K. Rool should be an obvious shoo-in for Nintendo's All-Star battle Royale, but alas we live in a crazy world. K. Rool has a very good shot at making it in, yet at the same time whether Sakurai (laughs) or [laughs] can ultimately determine his fate. I never thought of him (or Ridley, or even Mewtwo) as shoo-ins for that alone: there really is no telling what can happen.

Depending on what's shown, Tuesday is going to be one hell of a day.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'm almost positive that Tuesday is going to be very big for a lot of people.

I'm feeling like we're going to get a new trailer, and nobody knows what that might entail. We might get a second of gameplay on Pyrosphere, and Ridley being a stage hazard on there, we might get more than one newcomer...the possibilities are endless right now.

It'll be a game changer though. I think people are going to devolve into hysterics if we get more than one newcomer, and one of them is a character nobody thought of. That's even one less slot for the big names right there.

 

[Groose]

This is all true, and you even forgot Mewtwo.

I think the King has a very solid shot, but he's no guarantee.

I din't really forget Mewtwo. I just don't think he'll be as difficult/important as a true newcomer because they have a base for him.

One thing that does bode well for Rool, though, is this--internationally, he was globally the most popular Nintendo newcomer when the roster was decided. There is no contest for this; it is a fact. Palutena was not overly popular in the Spring of 2012; Medusa, Magnus, and the lack of a leak siphoned her support. Little Mac and Ridley were never popular in the East and Shulk didn't have a huge foothold in the West. Dixie Kong was mentioned, but not anywhere like she is today. The only two characters that were as globally popular as our King back then were Mewtwo and Mega Man. One isn't a newcomer and one isn't a Nintendo character.

This fact should give us a lot of hope that K. Rool is playable, but we should not say he is a shoo-in. I hope this Direct gives us something else to hold in our favor; if we can't see K. Rool yet, a Gangplank Galleon stage would be just what the doctor ordered.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I think I may have said it before, but my number one concern if K. Rool isn't in is that we won't get a reason. As it stands, there's absolutely no reason not to add him, so him just being excluded with no justification would be the worst thing of all.

 

[Welshy91]

I don't necessarily think K. Rool is gonna be revealed Tuesday. I don't necessarily think he won't either.

 

[bellboy64]

I don't necessarily think K. Rool is gonna be revealed Tuesday. I don't necessarily think he won't either.

I dare not hope. If there's one thing I've learned time and again from Nintendo it's not to get your hopes up.
If anything the thing I'm dreading the most is he's not playable. he's an AT.
Normally I'd be more or less OK with that (I'd be pissed for sure don't get me wrong) but I know that's what's gonna bring the arseholes out to play...

 

[Groose]

I dare not hope. If there's one thing I've learned time and again from Nintendo it's not to get your hopes up.
If anything the thing I'm dreading the most is he's not playable. he's an AT.
Normally I'd be more or less OK with that (I'd be pissed for sure don't get me wrong) but I know that's what's gonna bring the arseholes out to play...

I'd like to disagree on that point. If he does get added as an AT, as disappointing as that'd be, at least he'd be in the game in some form. That would pretty much put an end to the times where we have to deal with the "owned by Rare" and "ignored by Nintendo arguments." We'd have a much smoother job when arguing for his inclusion in the next game. Still, it's still a dark reality; let's not dwell on such matters, right?


Like the rest of you, I'm hoping for Tuesday, but I won't get my expectations up yet. We do have all of the DK veterans revealed, so there really isn't anything holding back his potential reveal.

 

[BKupa666]

@ Groose Solid reasoning. I can't remember the last time I heard anyone call K. Rool a shoo-in, because frankly, he's a cut below that level. Only a legitimate leak could really change that at this point. That being said, I don't necessarily think that his chances should rest upon "this is how many characters I think will get in before him," because characters can and have been added and dropped up until the last minute, and we still don't know how many, if any veterans will get the axe.

A little over a day left until Tuesday. K. Rool could certainly be revealed, but I'm leaning more toward a Sakurai baby first, plus game modes.

 

[Deleted member]

@ Groose That is a good post on why K. Rool may be overrated, but I will offer a counter-argument.

I think your biggest flaw here is the logic that assumes characters are progressively added and cut as the game's development goes on. You say that if we get another five newcomers that it reduces the room for K. Rool to get in and this is not correct - the roster is already decided. For all we know, K. Rool was the first newcomer added to the game but has not been revealed. So we could honestly get another five, six, or even seven newcomers before we see K. Rool, it honestly doesn't make a difference. We don't know the size of the roster: on top of a "retro" or "shock" rep, we can get a DK rep.

At this point in the franchise, DK is also one of the only remaining series that is justified in more characters. It had 1 in SSB64 and Melee, 2 in Brawl. Its most recent games have been huge successes and revitalized interest in Donkey Kong. I can't think of any other series except Mario that has enjoyed nearly the same level of success. Certainly Kid Icarus, Metroid and new IPs from last generation didn't get that far. This is important as if you look at the newcomers Sakurai has added, they've all either been fan favorites (Little Mac, Mega Man) or hailed from incredibly well-selling, acclaimed game franchises (Rosalina, Wii Fit Trainer, Villager).

Another point I will counter is that Dixie Kong affects K. Rool's chances. As I said in the RTC thread, Dixie Kong has limited potential for her own moveset and most realistically has to clone Diddy's bananas or leap, to have a working set of four specials. The relevancy argument doesn't hold any water - look at Little Mac or Rosalina, these characters haven't been relevant for years. The best we can guess for relevancy is that around 2012, when the roster was finalized, Sakurai took stock of what was popular. At that time, Dixie Kong was far more obscured in DK than K. Rool.

I would argue as well that judging by the amount of moves inspired by DK64 in Diddy Kong's moveset, as well as the content dedicated to the Country series in general, Sakurai knows all about the series. I think if he is knowledgeable, he will choose the most respectable option, which is K. Rool, the main antagonist of all the Country games. Compared to other options - namely Kongs - K. Rool stands out as by far the most unique and interesting option, as well as the most popular.

I'd also like to say I don't mean to insult the argument you made, which I found well-reasoned. But I will stop short of endorsing it, out of the context of the RTC thread. I honestly don't see K. Rool that overrated when I look at what fans are saying on the internet. Smash Boards tend to be one of the most pro-K. Rool places, but generally I would say I agree that he's likely over unlikely. As @ BKupa666 said, no one is saying he's a shoo-in, just that, all things considered, we're justified in a little optimism.

 

[BlitznBurst]

Little Mac and Mega Man raised my hopes for K. Rool considerably, both being pretty "irrelevant" characters who nevertheless made it into the game because of their overwhelming support, as well as offering plenty to the game in terms of gameplay.

 

[Dropkick JD]

April 8th is my birthday...

Don't let me down Nintendo.

Watch Dixie Kong get revealed on my birthday. I'll cry.

 

[BKupa666]

Watch me be proven wrong, but I don't believe Dixie will be shown off tomorrow. As we're seeing with Ridley (and Palutena), Sakurai is dragging out suspense for the more popular characters. What with K. Rool being the only other candidate on Ridley's level, he's not just going to go and reveal a lesser newcomer who many believe "is competing with" him for a "slot" and kill off that hype before there's even a release date in sight. With that in mind, if Dixie is still in the game, I think she'll remain hidden until release.

 

[Groose]

Personally, if I were the one in charge of selecting the new characters for the game, I would have chosen K. Rool with my third pick. I'm not talking from a K. Rool supporter standpoint here; I'm approaching everything by evaluating each character's merit. Mega Man would have been my first because nothing can top the pure hype of seeing a mega-popular third-party rising from the ashes; I would't be surprised if a few thousand copies of the game sold for nothing else other than to support his inclusion. My second selection would be Mewtwo because he's freaking Mewtwo, a Nintendo character who can trump even the King in terms of global support. K. Rool would have been third because his popularity was enormous globally and he has so much merit as a fighter. ...I just hope Sakurai shares my sentiments here.

 

[False Sense]

Personally, if I were the one in charge of selecting the new characters for the game, I would have chosen K. Rool with my third pick. I'm not talking from a K. Rool supporter standpoint here; I'm approaching everything by evaluating each character's merit. Mega Man would have been my first because nothing can top the pure hype of seeing a mega-popular third-party rising from the ashes; I would't be surprised if a few thousand copies of the game sold for nothing else other than to support his inclusion. My second selection would be Mewtwo because he's freaking Mewtwo, a Nintendo character who can trump even the King in terms of global support. K. Rool would have been third because his popularity was enormous globally and he has so much merit as a fighter. ...I just hope Sakurai shares my sentiments here.

You're correct in that way of thinking; that would be the logical way to make this game sell. It's basic, really. We just have to hope Sakurai sees that.

 

[TCRhade]

I'm excited and nervous at the same time. XD I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for K. Rool. ;P

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I personally am confident in the likelihood of not getting just K. Rool, but possibly getting both him and Dixie.

Also, hopw likely would you think K. Rool is to be revealed in this Direct? Personally, I think he has little to no chance of being revealed in this Direct as I would expect him to be revealed at E3, were he to be in.

 

[TCRhade]

I personally am confident in the likelihood of not getting just K. Rool, but possibly getting both him and Dixie.

Also, hopw likely would you think K. Rool is to be revealed in this Direct? Personally, I think he has little to no chance of being revealed in this Direct as I would expect him to be revealed at E3, were he to be in.

I'm also rooting for E3, but a Direct reveal would still be awesome.

 

[False Sense]

I personally am confident in the likelihood of not getting just K. Rool, but possibly getting both him and Dixie.

Also, hopw likely would you think K. Rool is to be revealed in this Direct? Personally, I think he has little to no chance of being revealed in this Direct as I would expect him to be revealed at E3, were he to be in.

I kind of agree with the E3 thing. If K. Rool is in, saving someone as big as him for E3 would probably be best. I mean, really, there's no one bigger than him at this point aside from Mewtwo. For the best possible results from E3, K. Rool should be saved for that occasion.

 

[Pacack]

While I think it's more likely than not that we'll see K. Rool get in, he could easily wind up being the popular newcomer that gets glanced over this time.

 

[Opossum]

As much as I want to see K. Rool tomorrow, he's the one I'm least expecting out of my really wanted newcomers. I just feel he's more of an E3 thing, honestly. That being said, I'd love to be proved wrong.

 

[Groose]

As much as I want to see K. Rool tomorrow, he's the one I'm least expecting out of my really wanted newcomers. I just feel he's more of an E3 thing, honestly. That being said, I'd love to be proved wrong.

That's comparable to what we said about Mac baby, no? "He's a Western-popular character, so they'll show him at the Western E3."

 

[Zynux]

Tropical Freeze off-topicness:

Spoiler

So I finally got to have my showdown against Lord Frederick in Tropical Freeze.

Now, when you guys and the entire internet were going "lol he's just K. Rool 2.0" I personally thought you were kind of exaggerating because of K. Rool's absence but holy **** you were not kidding.

I was surprised, no, baffled about how much he resembled KRool. From the similar body type to clothing design, from him showing off to the audience before you fight him (like k. Rool in DK64), from his very strange and weird cartoonish quirks with his animations and personality, and from his range of attack patterns that are very reminiscent of previous K. Rool fights. I'm convinced that Retro really did want to throw a bone to K. Rool fans while wanting to do their own thing.

With that said, I was disappointed with Frederick overall. This is thanks to one Polar Bear, or should I say, Bashmaster the Unbreakable. Bashmaster the ****ing Unbreakable. His boss fight was kick-ass, his animations were badass, his arena was the best, and his boss theme is the best in the game. Oh, and did I say that his name is Bashmaster the Unbreakable? Honestly, a part of me felt that he should have been the Viking leader instead of Frederick. It may have helped that he didn't turn out to just be another Walrus, unlike Frederick. With that said, Frederick and the Vikings weren't bad, and they were miles ahead of the tikis.

As much as I want to see K. Rool tomorrow, he's the one I'm least expecting out of my really wanted newcomers. I just feel he's more of an E3 thing, honestly. That being said, I'd love to be proved wrong.

I don't know. I always felt that e3 reveals will be used to garner interest from more casual fans. Despite his popularity I always though K. Rool would fit best with a direct for the hardcore Smash fans. Can't say my reasoning really makes sense or not, but I don't think K. Rool would be the best e3 choice.

 

[Deleted member]

and his boss theme is the best in the game.

Argument invalid.

 

[Zynux]

Nope! Prefer Punch Bowl over Big Top Bop, though that's great as well.

I was very disappointed with Frederick's theme. Didn't seem to lend itself well to the battle. Though it sounds a lot better outside the context of the game.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

DKC: Tropical Freeze has some really great boss music in general. It's good to hear that David Wise hasn't lost it so many years after he wrote the great K. Rool tracks.

As much as I want to see K. Rool tomorrow, he's the one I'm least expecting out of my really wanted newcomers. I just feel he's more of an E3 thing, honestly. That being said, I'd love to be proved wrong.

Yeah, I'm going to be really surprised if K. Rool shows up tonight. It's not that I doubt his chances of course, but right now just doesn't seem to be the time to show him. Of course I have nothing to base this on other than a gut feeling, that they'd probably want to reveal him in a Direct which is better timed worldwide, and he just like Ridley is very beneficial to keep at bay for as long as possible. I'm expecting K. Rool after E3 honestly.

 

[bellboy64]

I'm in a special kind of hell right now. It's now more or less 7am where I live right now. The Direct is 11PM.
This is gon' be a looooooong day...

@ Zynux It's weird, but post-Tropical Freeze I've begun to really like the Tikis. I used to be of the collective opinion "oh they suck" and "they're boring/unimaginative".

But compared to the Snowmads they're kind of awesome. I was earnestly kind of unimpressed by them. What's the reason I hear you ask? How could I have taken such a turn (I would've said "face" or "heel" but since I don't know **** about wrestling I'll be vague)?

One reason: Campness.

The Vikings are...OK. But they lack the charisma the past games had. I'll post what I said about them compared to the Tikis on a "final impressions" board for DKC:TF on the DKVine forums. I can't put it into better words. (This is an overall opinion)

Spoiler

The enemies I'm not really feeling. I want to say they're an improvement on the Tikis but I actually kinda prefer them over the Snowmads.

Here's the deal. Snowmads are vikings. Bad dudes and they know it. Bahahaha! We've made you homeless you pitiful apes! We're big, mean and scary! They're straight up villain-villains. ...What else do they have?

Tikis... are quite silly when you think about it. They've almost got a kind of charm to the whole villain schtick that's kinda of reminiscent of the Kremlings. They're kind of campy and weird. Hell, they're animated bits of wood! The villains of DKCR are WOOD! That is so damn stupid! And I'm actually smirking as I type here.

The Snowmads in hindsight... nothing really stuck out. Save for Tucks' screams. They're a little bit boring.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I always thought the hate for the Tikis was over-exaggerated. I prefer them over the Snowmads too exactly because they're just that silly. Sure they're not even close to the Kremlings in terms of appeal, but I still think they held their ground reasonably as replacements, because let's face it, no matter what replacement villains they'd have introduced in DKC:R they'd have been loathed. Heck, I even prefer Tiki Tong over Fredrick, even if he's just a regular hand boss at least he looks more unique compared to his minions, and doesn't feel like a rip-off of the villain he's supposed to replace.