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K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

BKupa666

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Not necessarily, anything could happen. I would be disheartened if that happened, but I wouldn't give up on the notion of a DK newcomer.
Caveat of "anything could happen" aside, I don't think anyone would argue that it wouldn't be most logical to reveal Dixie and Cranky in relatively close proximity to the Tropical Freeze release date if they were in the game. But them potentially not being revealed wouldn't rule out a DK series newcomer, period, if that newcomer were K. Rool or, for a longshot, an arcade character.
 

Welshy91

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Caveat of "anything could happen" aside, I don't think anyone would argue that it wouldn't be most logical to reveal Dixie and Cranky in relatively close proximity to the Tropical Freeze release date if they were in the game. But them potentially not being revealed wouldn't rule out a DK series newcomer, period, if that newcomer were K. Rool or, for a longshot, an arcade character.
I get what you're saying. I'm just trying to keep morale up should we not got any DK reveals.
 

soviet prince

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am I the only one worried about his inclusion since it seems nintendo is doing everything to not bring back the kremlings
 

Morbi

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am I the only one worried about his inclusion since it seems nintendo is doing everything to not bring back the kremlings
That is honestly the biggest thing he has going against him. I cannot fathom why they let K. Rool die like that, it doesn't really make sense. However, that isn't relevant. I have been on the fence about K. Rool as I wasn't entirely adamant about either side, but after some contemplation, I am just going to start speculating against his inclusion. It pains me as I am a huge K. Rool fan, I just don't see him having a decent shot, especially when comparing him to Dixie.
 

Hoots

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That is honestly the biggest thing he has going against him. I cannot fathom why they let K. Rool die like that, it doesn't really make sense. However, that isn't relevant. I have been on the fence about K. Rool as I wasn't entirely adamant about either side, but after some contemplation, I am just going to start speculating against his inclusion. It pains me as I am a huge K. Rool fan, I just don't see him having a decent shot, especially when comparing him to Dixie.
If K. Rool is indeed not playable, it will be entirely due to the fact that Nintendo wants the Kremlings to stay dead. They have their reasons for loathing them, but if it even seeps over to Sakurai then there's nothing that can be done. The hatred is just too pure and too powerful.
 

Morbi

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If K. Rool is indeed not playable, it will be entirely due to the fact that Nintendo wants the Kremlings to stay dead. They have their reasons for loathing them, but if it even seeps over to Sakurai then there's nothing that can be done. The hatred is just too pure and too powerful.
I just can't envision Sakurai speaking to the team that develops Donkey Kong and adding K. Rool. This blatant hatred would most likely correlate to a more negative response in regards to adding K. Rool (as the DK team doesn't want to use the Kremlings, or whatever). Dixie is the more ideal candidate. I mean, Dixie would still have some staggeringly good credentials if K. Rool wasn't sentenced to death. Trust me, I truly do hope I am wrong on this one, but it doesn't seem logical to speculate for him when he has nothing really going for him aside from his popularity. Popularity isn't the most relevant attribute of a character added to Smash, especially when it seems apparent that the Japanese fan-base isn't too receptive to him either.
 

Hoots

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I just can't envision Sakurai speaking to the team that develops Donkey Kong and adding K. Rool. This blatant hatred would most likely correlate to a more negative response in regards to adding K. Rool (as the DK team doesn't want to use the Kremlings, or whatever). Dixie is the more ideal candidate. I mean, Dixie would still have some staggeringly good credentials if K. Rool wasn't sentenced to death. Trust me, I truly do hope I am wrong on this one, but it doesn't seem logical to speculate for him when he has nothing really going for him aside from his popularity. Popularity isn't the most relevant attribute of a character added to Smash, especially when it seems apparent that the Japanese fan-base isn't too receptive to him either.
Except K. Rool has the potential to be an incredibly unique character with a nearly unlimited moveset potential. There isn't much to differentiate Dixie from Diddy besides her hair copter. Hell, even in DKCTF, they give her a wacky Gumball Gun just like Diddy's Peanut Popgun. I don't see how she would be worthy of inclusion as her own character instead of tacked on to Diddy in a combo.
 

Morbi

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Except K. Rool has the potential to be an incredibly unique character with a nearly unlimited moveset potential. There isn't much to differentiate Dixie from Diddy besides her hair copter. Hell, even in DKCTF, they give her a wacky Gumball Gun just like Diddy's Peanut Popgun. I don't see how she would be worthy of inclusion as her own character instead of tacked on to Diddy in a combo.
I don't either, but it might be the ease of development that gives her the edge to be honest. I would prefer King K. Rool, I actually hate the notion that Dixie might be playable. It really depends on whether or not Sakurai actually talks with the Donkey Kong team. Hopefully he disregards their opinion if he does, as you stated, the hair is really the only difference.
 

MasterOfKnees

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I just can't envision Sakurai speaking to the team that develops Donkey Kong and adding K. Rool. This blatant hatred would most likely correlate to a more negative response in regards to adding K. Rool (as the DK team doesn't want to use the Kremlings, or whatever). Dixie is the more ideal candidate. I mean, Dixie would still have some staggeringly good credentials if K. Rool wasn't sentenced to death. Trust me, I truly do hope I am wrong on this one, but it doesn't seem logical to speculate for him when he has nothing really going for him aside from his popularity. Popularity isn't the most relevant attribute of a character added to Smash, especially when it seems apparent that the Japanese fan-base isn't too receptive to him either.
K. Rool does have the most important factor: Moveset potential. Dixie simply doesn't. Dixie is doomed to be a last minute addition or nothing else, which means she won't be in the race against K. Rool since she's in a different league.

Also, I'm sure Retro and Nintendo doesn't outright hate the Kremlings, they just didn't want to be stuck with the same villains for what's likely to be a trilogy. Even then I think the only franchises where Sakurai actually speaks with the developers are Game Freak, Intelligent Systems and the 3rd party companies.

Also, K. Rool is the most requested character in Japan too, with the exception of Mewtwo and Roy.
 

Morbi

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K. Rool does have the most important factor: Moveset potential. Dixie simply doesn't. Dixie is doomed to be a last minute addition or nothing else, which means she won't be in the race against K. Rool since she's in a different league.

Also, I'm sure Retro and Nintendo doesn't outright hate the Kremlings, they just didn't want to be stuck with the same villains for what's likely to be a trilogy. Even then I think the only franchises where Sakurai actually speaks with the developers are Game Freak, Intelligent Systems and the 3rd party companies.

Also, K. Rool is the most requested character in Japan too, with the exception of Mewtwo and Roy.
Hopefully this notion prevails in the end.

I highly doubt Sakurai wouldn't speak with other companies aside from Game Freak and Intelligent systems. It has never been officially confirmed, but you would have to in order to keep the game fluid and cohesive while pertaining to what the other developers are actually trying to achieve. It might not necessarily be the same conversation, but I guarantee that the does speak with other relevant developers. Just to see where they are heading and what they are planning, who they would like to push in their own franchise. Just some basic essential things. I am not insinuating that he literally asks them who they would like to see in the game or anything like that (although some allusions are unavoidable; if they aren't receptive to K. Rool, yet they wish to promote Dixie more in the future... it is apparent who they would prefer). Smash is largely used as a marketing tool, especially this time around.

I am aware that K. Rool is highly requested in Japan, but he is also opposed if I am not mistaken. That could just be an assumption on my part.
 

MasterOfKnees

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Hopefully this notion prevails in the end.

I highly doubt Sakurai wouldn't speak with other companies aside from Game Freak and Intelligent systems. It has never been officially confirmed, but you would have to in order to keep the game fluid and cohesive while pertaining to what the other developers are actually trying to achieve. It might not necessarily be the same conversation, but I guarantee that the does speak with other relevant developers. Just to see where they are heading and what they are planning, who they would like to push in their own franchise. Just some basic essential things. I am not insinuating that he literally asks them who they would like to see in the game or anything like that (although some allusions are unavoidable; if they aren't receptive to K. Rool, yet they wish to promote Dixie more in the future... it is apparent who they would prefer). Smash is largely used as a marketing tool, especially this time around.

I am aware that K. Rool is highly requested in Japan, but he is also opposed if I am not mistaken. That could just be an assumption on my part.
You might mistake him for Ridley in Japan, who I'm fairly certain they aren't too thrilled about.

You're probably right otherwise though. I doubt that Sakurai asks Miyamoto what Donkey Kong character he'd want in the game though, with big franchises that are as tight to Nintendo like Donkey Kong is I'm fairly certain Sakurai picks the characters himself, unlike with flavor of the week franchises like Pokémon and Fire Emblem, where one of those are 2nd party (I don't think Intelligent System are 2nd party?) However, he most certainly speaks with them about how to represent the franchises either way, I'm not sure why I was trying to oppose that in my previous post, though I'm inclined to believe that the line for that is probably drawn at stages and movesets, and not the characters specifically. There's no way for us to know though, just a gut feeling.
 

CyberWolfBia

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If (only if) K.Rool doesn't make in Smash4, probably we're still getting some Kremling (and K.Rool) related Trophy as we had in Brawl.. it's like... impossible, make a Trophy Gallery of Donkey Kong story without mention the reptiles..So, even if Nintendo want somehow that the Kremlings stay in the limbo, they can't... but aside this fact, I think that Nintendo has plans to the Kremlings.. holding them for a next game, for hype, I dunno.. a friend of mine had a theory about Retro's DKC, saying that first we got something related to indigenous culture, now, something between Ice Age and Vikings... I don't know where exactly he wanted to reach, but he said that the Kremlings could be the next crew to attack DK's Island, for relate to human evolution/story, something like that. '-'
 

MasterOfKnees

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Tribal > Ice Age > Dinosaurs. I see what your friend is getting at, going backwards in time.

The Kremlings would work exceptionally as a grand finale of the Returns trilogy, I really wouldn't be surprised if that's how they're used.
 

CyberWolfBia

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Oh, right.. that's the logic. XD... It's so simple.. I feel myself so stupid now. lol. :facepalm:
but, as I said, regardless of Nintendo and/or Retro plans for the Kremling Krew, they can't die.. they're stuck with Donkey Kong's story, .. only if the series got a reboot (which I doubt that we'll see something like that in the future), the Kremlings will be always part of DK legacy. and is preferred they take advantage of the popularity and legacy of Kremlings somehow in future games, than invent characters and villains who won't have the same impact as the crocodiles, and won't become so recurrent as Kremlings and K. Rool were once.
 

Kenrallminyah

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I am a supporter for King K. Rool! put me on the list!

On another note after looking at the suggested map locations for his home stage. The Pirate ship boss map is great as it is. Adding thee layers would make it much too large and take away from the original nostalgia. Just keep it to one flat area, with maybe an elevated platform to bring in. Make the stage threat simple such as a Kritter or Klaptrap running across the deck or washing on board. Maybe a non item barrel can roll across the deck, or even some cannonballs. I really dont like to see the forum poster over work each idea they have. After watching watching numerous "wish lists for ssb4" youtube videos id say each one had some character with two or three unique forms to switch into! Leave the shifting to Zelda and Pokemon Trainer. Finale destination is the prefered stage of most because its not as eccentric as the terribly terrible New Pork City map. Simple is better when it comes to most maps. Banjo Kazooie (cough)


Either way love the fanbase behind K.Rool right now! Lets hope they dont announce dixie with the tropical freeze launch, or we could be in trouble! :(
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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If King K. Rool does turn out to be a secret playable character for Tropical Freeze, that may give him enough hopes of making it into the Smash Bros. fray.
 

BlitznBurst

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Wy is everybody convinced Nintendo hates the Kremlings? Retro are the ones making the games and Retro would rather make new villains than rely on old ones. This isn't some massive conspiracy to try and erase the Kremlings from history.
 

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A Death Battle between Dedede and K Rool would be cool.

And if K Rool is in the game, what should his final smash be? Blast o Matic? Kredits?
 

BKupa666

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Wy is everybody convinced Nintendo hates the Kremlings? Retro are the ones making the games and Retro would rather make new villains than rely on old ones. This isn't some massive conspiracy to try and erase the Kremlings from history.
Basically this. It's fallacious to presuppose that there is "blatant hatred" for the Kremlings within Nintendo that would inhibit any developer from using them ever again when their absence could also mean indifference, a desire to take gameplay in a different direction, or even a desire to save them for later. Did Nintendo "blatantly hate" Ganondorf when he didn't appear in the Zelda games he didn't appear in? Or Diddy in Jungle Beat? Or did Capcom "blatantly hate" Mega Man?

Reading over some of the old Returns interviews, the worst Tanabe and Miyamoto said was "Do the Kremlings need to return? Why not try something new?" This is then elaborated upon by Tanabe saying that Miyamoto offered suggestions as to which characters should definitely return (Cranky), then Retro decided to build everything else from scratch.

K. Rool's odds don't hinge on Nintendo, they hinge on Sakurai and his preferences. Remember, this is the guy who fought some of Nintendo's higher-ups to get Solid Snake in the game, so if he prefers and wants K. Rool, he's happening.
 

Welshy91

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Basically this. It's fallacious to presuppose that there is "blatant hatred" for the Kremlings within Nintendo that would inhibit any developer from using them ever again when their absence could also mean indifference, a desire to take gameplay in a different direction, or even a desire to save them for later. Did Nintendo "blatantly hate" Ganondorf when he didn't appear in the Zelda games he didn't appear in? Or Diddy in Jungle Beat? Or did Capcom "blatantly hate" Mega Man?

Reading over some of the old Returns interviews, the worst Tanabe and Miyamoto said was "Do the Kremlings need to return? Why not try something new?" This is then elaborated upon by Tanabe saying that Miyamoto offered suggestions as to which characters should definitely return (Cranky), then Retro decided to build everything else from scratch.

K. Rool's odds don't hinge on Nintendo, they hinge on Sakurai and his preferences. Remember, this is the guy who fought some of Nintendo's higher-ups to get Solid Snake in the game, so if he prefers and wants K. Rool, he's happening.
Way to come in there and squash the notion of Kremling hate.
 

True Blue Warrior

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In terms of Tropical Freeze and DK newcomer candidates, do you guys think it's safe to say that, if Dixie and/or Cranky are in Smash, they'd definitely be revealed the next Nintendo Direct after Tropical Freeze, like Rosalina was with 3D World? Conversely, if they aren't shown in that Nintendo Direct, do you guys think it's safe to say they're not in the game?
Doubt it. I can easily see Dixie as an unlockable character, so if she isn't revealed at that point, I don't think people should worry about her chances.
 

BKupa666

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Doubt it. I can easily see Dixie as an unlockable character, so if she isn't revealed at that point, I don't think people should worry about her chances.
I see your point, I'm just speculating under the mentality that unlockable characters will be shown off if they have ties to new releases. Hence five Mario characters being revealed within six months.
 

Louie G.

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I feel like if they reveal Diddy next month, they could basically reveal K. Rool or Dixie. It wouldn't make a difference considering that Diddy would advertise Tropical Freeze.
 

Welshy91

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I feel like if they reveal Diddy next month, they could basically reveal K. Rool or Dixie. It wouldn't make a difference considering that Diddy would advertise Tropical Freeze.
That's what I was thinking. The direct and the game's launch is in the same month. My question is, which comes first?
 

BKupa666

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And there's another thing: if Sakurai is horrible enough to add Diddy and Dixie as a duo, would that be revealed in a Direct or on the website? Probably the former, right?
 

Welshy91

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Am I the only one that thinks the Diddy-Dixie combo is a good idea? I want to play as a monkey that throws another monkey at their enemies. Also, it frees up another slot for K. Rool... which is good because he takes up a lot of space.
 

Morbi

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Basically this. It's fallacious to presuppose that there is "blatant hatred" for the Kremlings within Nintendo that would inhibit any developer from using them ever again when their absence could also mean indifference, a desire to take gameplay in a different direction, or even a desire to save them for later. Did Nintendo "blatantly hate" Ganondorf when he didn't appear in the Zelda games he didn't appear in? Or Diddy in Jungle Beat? Or did Capcom "blatantly hate" Mega Man?

Reading over some of the old Returns interviews, the worst Tanabe and Miyamoto said was "Do the Kremlings need to return? Why not try something new?" This is then elaborated upon by Tanabe saying that Miyamoto offered suggestions as to which characters should definitely return (Cranky), then Retro decided to build everything else from scratch.

K. Rool's odds don't hinge on Nintendo, they hinge on Sakurai and his preferences. Remember, this is the guy who fought some of Nintendo's higher-ups to get Solid Snake in the game, so if he prefers and wants K. Rool, he's happening.
Whilst I do agree, I believe it is apparent that they do not wish to continue using the character. I do not literally presume that Nintendo blatantly hates the Kremlins, I was merely matching my diction with the other person. I think this passive approach and indifference is precisely what alludes to him not appearing again. I imagine it to be similar in the hypothetical scenario. Imagine the Mario developers cutting Bowser and the Koopa's one day, they do not really appear in anything relevant and they want to take the series in a different direction. It isn't hatred, but it certainly isn't willingness to put the characters in the game at that point. I do admit that I am not too well-versed with Donkey Kong lore, I was under the impression that K. Rool was buried. for a while now. I am not sure how significant his most recent appearances are. It isn't even about them "hating" the Kremlings. It is more about Dixie being the more ideal choice on all fronts in comparison to a character that they are not properly utilizing.
 

BridgesWithTurtles

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Personally, I liken the Kremlings' absence to that of the extended Sonic cast in recent years. Sega doesn't hate, say, Silver, but they see no reason to make use of him in the main series at this point. They've narrowed down the cast to a formula that they prefer at this time. That's how I imagine Nintendo has approached the Kremlings. I think we'll see them again someday, but Nintendo does not want to use them right now, and I think they've made that a bit obvious. Like Kupa said, I think Sakurai will be the one to make the effort to include K. Rool in Smash; he's not on the minds of anyone at Nintendo or Retro at the moment. We have to remember that the game developers don't think like we do. Where we see a lovable character from our childhoods, Retro sees just another element they decided to not carry over from the original Country games, providing them with an opportunity to do something new. They'll probably include K. Rool in any future DK games they make if fan demand is loud enough, but I doubt they'd include him solely because of their own creative decision. There'd have to be multiple factors at play.
 

Morbi

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Personally, I liken the Kremlings' absence to that of the extended Sonic cast in recent years. Sega doesn't hate, say, Silver, but they see no reason to make use of him in the main series at this point. They've narrowed down the cast to a formula that they prefer at this time. That's how I imagine Nintendo has approached the Kremlings. I think we'll see them again someday, but Nintendo does not want to use them right now, and I think they've made that a bit obvious. Like Kupa said, I think Sakurai will be the one to make the effort to include K. Rool in Smash; he's not on the minds of anyone at Nintendo or Retro at the moment. We have to remember that the game developers don't think like we do. Where we see a lovable character from our childhoods, Retro sees just another element they decided to not carry over from the original Country games, providing them with an opportunity to do something new. They'll probably include K. Rool in any future DK games they make if fan demand is loud enough, but I doubt they'd include him solely because of their own creative decision. There'd have to be multiple factors at play.
Yes, I agree with this sentiment. That is exactly how I feel, but at the same time; it isn't like Sakurai didn't already have intent to add Dixie Kong in the first place. Her prevalence and relevance might come into play once you factor in how easy she would be to develop in comparison (assuming she plays similar to Diddy, that is).
 

BKupa666

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Whilst I do agree, I believe it is apparent that they do not wish to continue using the character. I do not literally presume that Nintendo blatantly hates the Kremlins, I was merely matching my diction with the other person. I think this passive approach and indifference is precisely what alludes to him not appearing again. I imagine it to be similar in the hypothetical scenario. Imagine the Mario developers cutting Bowser and the Koopa's one day, they do not really appear in anything relevant and they want to take the series in a different direction. It isn't hatred, but it certainly isn't willingness to put the characters in the game at that point. I do admit that I am not too well-versed with Donkey Kong lore, I was under the impression that K. Rool was buried. for a while now. I am not sure how significant his most recent appearances are. It isn't even about them "hating" the Kremlings. It is more about Dixie being the more ideal choice on all fronts in comparison to a character that they are not properly utilizing.
Until K. Rool hypothetically does not become playable in this game, I don't equate Retro's preference to design their own enemies to match their own platforming game design to there existing a blanket Nintendo policy to shelve the characters permanently (and even then, it could still just be Sakurai). I also don't equate existing in a new game to being the more ideal Smash character; being in a new game doesn't make a character inherently more appealing, more unique, or even more marketable. Rosalina happened to pass that bar independently of appearing in 3D World, which I know you don't agree with, but when looking at all the other lamearse Mario candidates, none of whom stood out at all, her inclusion makes a ton of sense.

K. Rool's last main villain appearance was in Jungle Climber, which was released a year before Brawl, followed by his playable appearances in Barrel Blast and Sluggers in 2007 and 2008, respectively. Not that I really think new appearances matter for him, because his most iconic appearance is always going to be his crown-throwing, possum-playing, blunderbuss-shooting self from the SNES days; that's what would be replicated in Smash, no matter what his latest game was. Kind of like how Mega Man was always going to appear as the classic character, not in whatever more recent spin-off forms he has (not familiar with the franchise...X and Bad Boxart, right?). Sakurai recognizes this, discussing in his Direct how it was the team's top priority to replicate his NES form. I think it could apply to K. Rool as well.

Oh, and notice I'm not pitting him against Dixie, because the idea of "competing for slots" is inane to me.
 

CroonerMike

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I do not like the redesign for K. Rool. He looks so much scarier from his SNES days. I don't know why the would remove the golden chest/stomach plate or why they made his eye less infected. Either way, what ever design they use I will be happy with.
 

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I like K.Rool's new design, ..matches with almost any other Mario, DK or Nintendo characters.. while his old design is more a "RareWare" thing, principally when you compare artworks with Killer Instinct, Banjo-Kazooie and such. but when we talk about moves, it's impossible ignore his SNES incarnation, I don't think that his recent appearences could give something interesting in terms of moveset anyway.. what you think? a Final Smash with him a giant form like in Jungle Climber?
 
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