K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

[BKupa666]

Now that you mention it...basically every other newcomer that people actively want for the game can't be used to promote any new releases. Ridley has nothing (probably won't until at least E3), Little Mac has nothing, Palutena has nothing, Takamaru has nothing...even though he's more expected than wanted, Pac-Man doesn't even have any new release onto which to latch. Sure, they all have games that could be linked to their profiles, but in terms of when they can be stuck into Nintendo Directs, I don't think we'll be able to guess based off of new releases.

Right now, other than Dixie and inevitably Mii once more Wii U shovelware comes out (maybe Chrom if he's in that new Fire Emblem fighting game I know nothing about), newcomer promotion opportunities seem quite limited.

 

[Deleted member]

"More expected than wanted". He's the only classic character people seem to give a flying one about, really.

 

[BKupa666]

Yeah, keep in mind that perspective on Pac-Man is strictly based on anecdotal evidence. Although, to be fair, plenty of people give a flying one about Takamaru as a classic character, and to a lesser extent, others like Lip and Mach Rider...I'm assuming you're looking at him in relation to other third party characters, in which case you are right.

 

[Deleted member]

I am confused now, are you bringing up Pac-Man in context of what I said, or something else? After that, you bring up Takamaru, who I was talking about, but then it seemed more straying off back to Pac-Man with mentioning of comparing to other guests...

 

[BKupa666]

You had said Pac-Man is "the only classic character" people seem to give a flying one about. I was unsure whether you meant to say 'classic character,' or had accidentally typed that instead of 'third party character,' because I believe a stronger case can be made that Pac-Man is the only noteworthy third party character left than that he's the only noteworthy classic character left.

Not that it particularly matters in relation to query about the potential reveal of most newcomer candidates. I'm curious to hear how people think those reveals would be handled in the absence of new tie-in titles.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Is Simon Belmont considered a Classic character? But even so I would agree that Pac-man is one of the more iconic 'classic' characters that stands a chance to make it into smash4

[collapse=Johnknight1]

I just want the best playable characters.

And this is all subjective, because what may be the 'best' in your eyes maybe the 'worst' in someone else's

This assumes that no major Mario, Zelda, or Pokémon characters (isn't like over 3 dozen Pokémon considered "major"=???) can't have potential to be interesting movesets, skillsets, and playstyles.

Well all possible characters can have good potential movesets when the right team and thought is put into them regardless of how major.
I am only against adding more characters from said franchises, not because all of the character's moveset pool is utter trash, but I don't want to over saturate the roster with characters from one franchise in particular, regardless of the role the franchise had in Nintendo's history.

As I like to say, "gameplay [and gameplay design] makes playable characters". I think characters like Paper Mario (his gimmick: folding up and being hard to hit and having wacky offense), Plusle and Minun (tag team characters with opposite strengths with moves), and Pig Ganon (dat trident) could all be solid playable characters. It's just sometimes the smash development team doesn't know how to make them right, or other characters just out-prioritize them, or they never even considered them..

And again, the argument of franchise saturation still stands. While all of the characters you mentioned could have a creative movset. I would much rather have the gameplay concept for those character reworked into other franchises with fewer characters. Example: Your Minun & Plusle concept could have easily been done with Dixie & Diddy/ or Kiddy (Which ever makes you happy) The gameplay concept is still there, its just embedded in the lore of another franchise.
Would you rather have a roster that looks like this:


[collapse=A]

[/collapse]
Or would you rather have one that looks like this:
[collapse=B]

[/collapse]
*Note franchises represented in rosters A and B

The problem is most "supporters" think personal character preference > how good the playable character will actually be.
They're too stuck in fantasy land to see the reality that their moveset sucks, their skillset is clearly stolen from another character, and their playstyle would be the worst ever for a smash character.

This applies here as well:

Well all possible characters can have good potential movesets when the right team and thought is put into them regardless of how major.

Example: Many Rosalina supporters made movesets for Rosalina, but I highly doubt many if any at all came up with a puppet fighter reminiscent of Eddie from Guilty Gear. So, regardless of what supporters may come up with for possible movesets, that doesn't mean said character has no good possible movesets at all.

When you have people who say playable characters that make for the best gameplay > personal character preference, you get amazing threads like this thread. You get awesome moves, skills, and styles like the one in this thread's OP. Although it is very clear BKupa and many of us are K. Rool fans, his potential as a playable character and his uniqueness (in terms of his moves and style) is why we love him.

True. But as stated earlier, just because the fans can't come up with good reasoning and movesets for a character doesn't mean none exist.
Example: The Ridley fans have come up with some pretty good movesets, despite all of that his chances seem pretty low compared to a character... like the Miis, who seem bland as all hell in my opinion, but at the same time have a lot of content in SSB4 alluding to their appearance.

There aren't too many characters out there like that any more. The only "real" long-lasting (and still a main character in an ongoing franchise) "Nintendo All-Stars" that haven't been playable in smash are the lower level ones like *insert various Pokémon here*, K. Rool, Ridley, Little Mac, and... well... that's it (or nearly it; there could be arguments for the likes of Cranky Kong and Dixie Kong, too).

Agree'd most of the staple characters have been added already.

Characters like K. Rool, Ridley, and Little Mac are popular in part because of what they bring that's unique. You can't quite say that about fans of most of these (what I call) "character fan clubs".

just because the fans can't come up with good reasoning and movesets for a character doesn't mean none exist.

But yes, some characters uniqueness is easier to see than others. and some characters will obviously bring more to the table than others

Of course, that's not to say "newer" Nintendo "All-Stars" (or various levels below that) like Shulk, Isaac, Krystal, Paper Mario, Saki, etc. can't be unique or fun like the Villager, the Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina, it's just they aren't quite on "that level of awareness" like K. Rool, Ridley, and Little Mac (and we should have nothing against them for that).

Agree'd, but not just these new school Nintendo all-stars but all.

As long as every month from here on out is half as good to us as this month, I will be a happy camper.

Same here, bro. Same. Here.

Brawl's content was what I was referring to. Break the Targets was mostly meh, the Event Matches were worse than Melee, the SSE was actually a downgrade from the Melee Adventure Mode IMO (minus the bosses, which I thought were mostly good, sometimes great [see: Petey Piranha, Rayquaza]), the online was crap. Oh, and Brawl took nearly away all of the best techniques and tools from Smash 64 and Melee. It was almost like it was some other franchise, which is why it plays more like TMNT: Smash Up! than Smash 64 or Melee in many ways.

Oh I agree with you on everything you stated. I should of clearified on saying roster size and characters

Really, all Brawl added was stickers, the incredible newcomer choice (awesome), the online play (again, terrible netcoding, specifically outside of Japan), a terribly limited and extremely outdated Stage Builder, Masterpiece (which could have been much better), footstool hopping (eh, it's a nice addition, but doesn't add much, especially without spiking, which was a stupid subtraction), gliding (made the best character more OP), wall clinging (I'm not really a fan of this mechanic), roof techning (best. technique. ever. <<< if you don't watch that video, you DIE!!!!!), music sliders (an incredible addition; more games need this), and more music (that was wildly inconsistent and had no centralized feeling in the songs), the game really didn't add much.

It certainly added a lot less than Smash 64 Melee.... especially in terms of positive additions.

Agree with everything here[/collapse]

 

[Deleted member]

@BKuppa: I was talking about Takamaru, not Pac-Man.
You said that he was more expected than wanted.

 

[Johnknight1]

Looking at how all the revealed Mario characters were in Rosalina's trailer, I'm quite confident that K. Rool will not be revealed until Diddy gets updated onto the site first. Maybe Dedede as well, if his trailer is set up to feature him squaring off against the other two playable kings.

Well you could count Bowser ("The King of Koopas", "King Koopa") and Ganondorf ("The King of Thieves", "The King of the Gerudo").

But yeah, I'm beginning to think K. Rool will not be a part of a big E3 2013-esk reveal. I mean, he could be revealed at E3 2014, but I doubt we would get 3 newcomers there. If he was revealed with another character though, the only one I see happening alongside K. Rool is Pac-Man (and that's it).

And I'm not in agreement with John that K. Rool would have been shown off this December to promote Tropical Freeze, since he's not in the game. What I could see as a possibility is that, sometime early next year, when Tropical Freeze is the prime focus of whatever Directs there are, Iwata mentions having some additional surprise for Donkey Kong fans, before running K. Rool's reveal trailer. Kind of like how the E3 newcomers don't link anyone to a site, K. Rool wouldn't either; the Tropical Freeze link would clearly go to Diddy, and if Dixie is in, her too.

Well even to my point a K. Rool reveal would impact Tropical Freeze sales, even if he's not in said game. The lead up by Iwata ultimately doesn't matter to me IMO. What is revealed (and how it is revealed, ie: like how this last trailer was ambiguously revealed) does.

However, I'm beginning to think Diddy Kong will be revealed around Tropical Freeze's release date.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Diddy's reveal could be around Tropical Freeze's release, or another Direct with Tropical Freeze content. The site for Tropical Freeze is up already at least, so they could just link him there, and it's all cool. I could see Dixie's reveal close after his, and K.Rool's reveal doesn't have to include anything from Tropical Freeze, just him, DK, Diddy and Dixie in some way or form.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Diddy Kong and Dedede are the only two I could see being required to open the way for K. Rool, and they aren't too far away I imagine, might even be in January and February for both of their game releases, any newcomer trailer after that could potentially show K. Rool. Kind of an exciting thought, isn't it? It would be kind of funny to already have the inevitable Triple Trouble King event happen in K. Rool's trailer, but I guess all that's really required is for K. Rool to beat the **** out of DK and Diddy.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Also, this new Viking Walrus boss, he blows... Hard.

Spoiler

Still better than Tiki Tong though...

 

[Vintage Creep]

Also, this new Viking Walrus boss, he blows... Hard.

Spoiler

Still better than Tiki Tong though...

What the hell am I looking at.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Tropical Freeze's new blowing mechanic.

 

[Deleted member]

Also, this new Viking Walrus boss, he blows... Hard.

Spoiler

Still better than Tiki Tong though...

Anything is better than Tiki Tong. I just hope the final boss isn't a generic hand boss.

 

[Diddy Kong]

He most likely won't be. He'll likely just be some gaint dude we have to beat up. Which gives me far more hope on Retro being able to handle a King K.Rool boss battle.

 

[Deleted member]

He most likely won't be. He'll likely just be some gaint dude we have to beat up. Which gives me far more hope on Retro being able to handle a King K.Rool boss battle.

Oh man, I really hope they can handle an awesome final battle with King K. Rool! (and it better have Gangplank Galleon as the theme!) I just hope the next DKC game has King K. Rool. I don't care for any of these bad guys. >_>

 

[Diddy Kong]

I like these dudes well enough. I mean, they take over the whole of DK Isle in one blow. Which is pretty damn impressive. K.Rool also had the potential to do this, but he sort of failed with the Blast-O-Mattic (moreso because of his minions). These guys are quite a big treat to the Kongs, as they actually took over the Island. However, Kremlings are still more badass because they are a lasting plague. Doubt we'll ever see these guys back again, but they are a great prologue to the Kremling's Grand Return.

 

[Kon]

To join the discussion about newcomers: Every newcomer can have a unique moveset. You know Sakurai can just invent movesets if he wants to (look at Fox and Captain Falcon)
Of course we shouldn't expect too many newcomers featuring a whole invented moveset and therefore moveset potential is quite important too. Next could be popularity, but popularity in which sense? Series popularity? Or character popularity? While I guess series popularity is more important than character popularity(look just at Wii Fit Trainer), also series popularity doesn't necessarily mean worldwide popularity. I guess the Ice Climbers were less known in the West than in Japan.

Moveset potential for King K.Rool is given. Popularity of the series should be given too and popularity of King K.Rool can be seen in the most wanted newcomers worldwide where King K.Rool is one of the most wanted after all.

Sakurai could please the DK franchise fans by making a Diddy/Dixie character where you could switch between both just the way you can do with Zelda and Shiek. Than he would add King K.Rool and Cranky Kong and I guess most of the DK fans would be fine with it or am I wrong?

 

[Moon Monkey]

To join the discussion about newcomers: Every newcomer can have a unique moveset. You know Sakurai can just invent movesets if he wants to (look at Fox and Captain Falcon)
Of course we shouldn't expect too many newcomers featuring a whole invented moveset and therefore moveset potential is quite important too. Next could be popularity, but popularity in which sense? Series popularity? Or character popularity? While I guess series popularity is more important than character popularity(look just at Wii Fit Trainer), also series popularity doesn't necessarily mean worldwide popularity. I guess the Ice Climbers were less known in the West than in Japan.

Moveset potential for King K.Rool is given. Popularity of the series should be given too and popularity of King K.Rool can be seen in the most wanted newcomers worldwide where King K.Rool is one of the most wanted after all.

Sakurai could please the DK franchise fans by making a Diddy/Dixie character where you could switch between both just the way you can do with Zelda and Shiek. Than he would add King K.Rool and Cranky Kong and I guess most of the DK fans would be fine with it or am I wrong?

We are on the same page bruh.

P.S: That is a bomb-ass avatar you got there bruh.

 

[Vintage Creep]

To join the discussion about newcomers: Every newcomer can have a unique moveset. You know Sakurai can just invent movesets if he wants to (look at Fox and Captain Falcon)
Of course we shouldn't expect too many newcomers featuring a whole invented moveset and therefore moveset potential is quite important too. Next could be popularity, but popularity in which sense? Series popularity? Or character popularity? While I guess series popularity is more important than character popularity(look just at Wii Fit Trainer), also series popularity doesn't necessarily mean worldwide popularity. I guess the Ice Climbers were less known in the West than in Japan.

Moveset potential for King K.Rool is given. Popularity of the series should be given too and popularity of King K.Rool can be seen in the most wanted newcomers worldwide where King K.Rool is one of the most wanted after all.

Sakurai could please the DK franchise fans by making a Diddy/Dixie character where you could switch between both just the way you can do with Zelda and Shiek. Than he would add King K.Rool and Cranky Kong and I guess most of the DK fans would be fine with it or am I wrong?

Cranky Kong would be an overdoing for this installment at least.
Donkey Kong, Diddy & Dixie tag team and King K. Rool should be the way to go, absolutely, but I'm starting to think we'll get a separate Dixie Kong and that's it.

 

[Louie G.]

@BKuppa: I was talking about Takamaru, not Pac-Man.
You said that he was more expected than wanted.

I think Takamaru is more expected than wanted. There are a few retros I want first, like Lip, Mach Rider, Muddy Mole, and Sukapon, but Takamaru is likely if not only because of Nintendo Land.

Diddy's reveal could be around Tropical Freeze's release, or another Direct with Tropical Freeze content. The site for Tropical Freeze is up already at least, so they could just link him there, and it's all cool. I could see Dixie's reveal close after his, and K.Rool's reveal doesn't have to include anything from Tropical Freeze, just him, DK, Diddy and Dixie in some way or form.

I see Dixie Kong as the next revealed newcomer actually. I feel like Smashboards will blow up and count K. Rool out, but then we'll get "surprised" and finally complete the DK franchise with K. Rool (maybe at E3 or something). Honestly I'm expecting 4 DK characters.

He most likely won't be. He'll likely just be some gaint dude we have to beat up. Which gives me far more hope on Retro being able to handle a King K.Rool boss battle.

Even if he's a side boss I'll be happy. Heck, a cameo appearance would be a step up from his recent treatment in DKCR (PS: He didn't even show up).

 

[Deleted member]

Even if he's a side boss I'll be happy. Heck, a cameo appearance would be a step up from his recent treatment in DKCR (PS: He didn't even show up).

I would love to see some secret where we see a cutscene of King K. Rool and his Kremlings laughing in some mechanical area. However, we don't physically see King K. Rool as he is covered in darkness.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sakurai could please the DK franchise fans by making a Diddy/Dixie character where you could switch between both just the way you can do with Zelda and Shiek. Than he would add King K.Rool and Cranky Kong and I guess most of the DK fans would be fine with it or am I wrong?

Not really, as am personally quite bugged by Tropical Freeze's mentality of putting DK in the front everytime. Even in Multiplayer, Player 1 is DK-locked. There's not even a possibility to play as both Diddy and Dixie, so that quite bugs me as Diddy is my favorite character obviously. And of course, I was looking forward to the combination of Diddy and Dixie again in DKCR2. DKC2 / DKCR2, you see what I mean? I'd be quite upset that in the only game I could previously play as Diddy solo, am now forced to take Dixie with me as well, which isn't even possible in Tropical Freeze. Meanwhile, Cranky gets his slot on his own. Whereas it was Diddy himself who had his first DKC game of his own with Diddy's Kong Quest. I'd be upset by it, but probably would get used to it, and of course even main the characters but... I'd still miss playing as Diddy alone.

 

[Louie G.]

Having a Diddy/Dixie duo is completely useless in my opinion.
The characters will obviously have very similar stats and weights, and the only things that differ from the two would likely be their standard attacks (jabs, smashes, tilts, aerials) and maybe one special. That being said, a tag team between the two makes no sense. It's an interesting mechanic, but in the long run the characters are so similar that switching out between the two is pointless. Just play as one, you know? Which I why I think the idea was scrapped.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Having a Diddy/Dixie duo is completely useless in my opinion.
The characters will obviously have very similar stats and weights, and the only things that differ from the two would likely be their standard attacks (jabs, smashes, tilts, aerials) and maybe one special. That being said, a tag team between the two makes no sense. It's an interesting mechanic, but in the long run the characters are so similar that switching out between the two is pointless. Just play as one, you know? Which I why I think the idea was scrapped.

One week ago you would've thought that a Rosalina / Luma tag team had no sense.
Also, the problem is yours if you don't have the imagination to create two different characters out of the Kongs. It's not really that hard even.

 

[BKupa666]

See, I'd previously have gone with the Chronobound analysis that there's no way Dixie would be revealed pre-release, but after Rosalina, it easily could happen. Whether she or K. Rool gets revealed first (or at the same time) depends on Sakurai, who also determines who gets in of the two, period.

Also, might as well let you all know I'll be on another cruise without Internet access for a week. Last time that happened, I saw Little Mac chilling on deck, and the thread saw many thousand new views from mysterious groups of viewers. That ought to be reason enough for everyone to keep their eyes open this time around!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Diddy should be revealed before Dixie though.

However, this reminds me of a dream I once had... It was about Smash, and Dixie was on the roster, while Diddy wasn't. Diddy did got a replacement however, which was Boots, the monkey from Dora the Explorder (Dora airs a lot in the early morning TV here, which is when I often go to bed) who had a Peanut Popgun, and a N Air very similar working to Diddy's in Project M. Don't remember if K.Rool was also there or not, but was bugged a lot by this.

 

[Louie G.]

Also, the problem is yours if you don't have the imagination to create two different characters out of the Kongs. It's not really that hard even.

I could easily do it, but can Sakurai? Is he willing to make Diddy and Dixie incredibly different if he made even Ganondorf a clone of Captain Falcon?
I mean, realistically, Dixie will probably be a semi-clone.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I could easily do it, but can Sakurai? Is he willing to make Diddy and Dixie incredibly different if he made even Ganondorf a clone of Captain Falcon?
I mean, realistically, Dixie will probably be a semi-clone.

You never know, he can do wonders for characters.

By the way, hi.

 

[Louie G.]

Also, the problem is yours if you don't have the imagination to create two different characters out of the Kongs. It's not really that hard even.

I could easily do it, but can Sakurai? Is he willing to make Diddy and Dixie incredibly different if he made even Ganondorf a clone of Captain Falcon?
I mean, realistically, Dixie will probably be a semi-clone.

Plus, on a side note, I would like Dixie to be announced first. It would cause some confusion and even some anger at first, only for Diddy to be revealed like a month later.

You never know, he can do wonders for characters.

By the way, hi.

It didn't phase me for a sec, but then I realized who responded.
Welcome back! Tumblr! Nice to see you!

 

[APC99]

I could easily do it, but can Sakurai? Is he willing to make Diddy and Dixie incredibly different if he made even Ganondorf a clone of Captain Falcon?
I mean, realistically, Dixie will probably be a semi-clone.

Do remember Ganondorf was a last-minute addition, alongside Young Link, Roy, Pichu, Dr. Mario and Falco. It's likely that, had Sakurai chosen to include a completely original character over the clones (it would've taken as much time), we'd see Ganondorf as a newcomer in Brawl with a completely original moveset. The only reason Ganondorf went from Melee to Brawl with no huge move changes is because Sakurai didn't feel like completely revamping characters. But with Bowser's makeover and Pit's makeover, I hope that Ganondorf is next.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't even think Dixie has to be a semi-clone of Diddy. Just look at Rosalina. Everyone said she'd be a semi-clone of Peach.

 

[Louie G.]

I don't even think Dixie has to be a semi-clone of Diddy. Just look at Rosalina.

I know, but I mean...
I'm just saying. It's slightly more likely that Dixie shares at least a few specials with Diddy than being a completely unique character. Diddy will almost definitely be the base for Dixie anyway.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I could easily do it, but can Sakurai? Is he willing to make Diddy and Dixie incredibly different if he made even Ganondorf a clone of Captain Falcon?
I mean, realistically, Dixie will probably be a semi-clone.

Like you'd be able to come up with Villager's moveset... Ganondorf was a clone for time restraints.
It's easy to talk **** when you can just fantasize the perfect moveset and don't need to actually make it work in the game.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Like you'd be able to come up with Villager's moveset... Ganondorf was a clone for time restraints.
It's easy to talk **** when you can just fantasize the perfect moveset and don't need to actually make it work in the game.

How can they not make it work when all they have to do is use DK's Forward Throw as a base for Dixie's hair grabbing mechanic? Damn, it's like you all WANT me to be wrong on EVERYTHING just because of Impa.

At worst, I see Diddy and Dixie as the new Ness and Lucas.

 

[Louie G.]

Like you'd be able to come up with Villager's moveset... Ganondorf was a clone for time restraints.
It's easy to talk **** when you can just fantasize the perfect moveset and don't need to actually make it work in the game.

Alright, yeesh.
I mean, there are mechanics that haven't been used yet, but I feel like Dixie might be added last minute too.

 

[TumblrFamous]

You people need to realize there is something Dixie has that would make her a unique fighter.

She can whip her hair back and forth.

 

[APC99]

Like you'd be able to come up with Villager's moveset... Ganondorf was a clone for time restraints.
It's easy to talk **** when you can just fantasize the perfect moveset and don't need to actually make it work in the game.

DK can carry people.

Link has a Hookshot.

Combine them, put them as a special, BOOM.

Take Diddy's popgun. Make the projectiles, when in contact, slow down the opponent.

You got the Bubble Gum Gun.

It's rather simple to implement them.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's not like they can revamp Diddy a little anyway, giving him a few tail attacks and such.

Dixie won't also fully clone Diddy anyway cause she has no Rocket Barrels. Peanut Popgun and Bubblegum Popgun are perhaps a given, but Diddy always weilded dual Popguns outside of Brawl and DKCR. He could still use them differently. Bananas could also be removed for a new attack of sorts. And Monkey Flip, well, guess Dixie could also do it but who's to say she won't get a hair-grab?

Creativity guys... For ****s sake, it seems like creativity is as rare as common sence these days.

 

[Vintage Creep]

DK can carry people.

Link has a Hookshot.

Combine them, put them as a special, BOOM.

Take Diddy's popgun. Make the projectiles, when in contact, slow down the opponent.

You got the Bubble Gum Gun.

It's rather simple to implement them.

I'm not sure you completely understood the point of my post.