K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Doing "le dirty war" on a Bomberman support miiverse post.
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/replies/AYMHAAACAAADVHkamhr3xw

Boring fact: My first videogame was Bomberman 64. Every game before that I played was from my older brother.

 

[DJ3DS]

...

I apologize as well, but honestly if you don't like what I say feel free to block me, I'm not going censor myself for anyone. Also it's not every other character, I just have an aversion to the surplus of a certain kind of character that feels like it makes up a surplus of the game. If you feel that sensitive, you can be an adult and ignore me, or if you can't take reading my comments, again you can block me, I don't care either way.

I was not planning on blocking you because I am interested in the stuff you have to say as much as anyone else on this thread. I do understand where you're coming from on a lot of the cases but to be frank it's not nice to see even when I share largely similar tastes in characters to you. I haven't yet had the misfortune of you being vocal about characters I care about but there will be people who care about the characters you hate as well as K Rool who would like to use this thread. It's not about censorship either. There is a way to voice your opinion without it coming across as inflammatory as it can do, and there is a very distinct difference between raising your points in a discussion and spontaneously bursting into vitriol about other characters. Surely extolling the perceived virtues of your choices rather than attacking the perceived flaws of other peoples' (with no prompting, I might add) is the adult thing to do?

Also the only villains that came out looking how they're supposed be are Bowser and to a lesser extent Bowser Jr. So yes this prejudice does exist and I'm not making up anything. You hear about there being a lack of villains all the time, y'know why because they're aren't that many in Smash. If you count antiheroes, Bowser, Jr, and Dedede are the most faithful to their appearances the rest:

-Ganon is not how he's supposed to be
-Wolf is gone
-Arguing and wishing for King K Rool to be in the game should not even be a thing he should be there already.
-Wario if you count him as a villain got one of his most iconic moves stripped from him.
-Porky isn't here.
-Ridley isn't here/ or anyone else for that matter
-Dedede is okay but he was made by Sakurai so of course he is
-No F-Zero Villains/or anyone else. Which is funny because he made up Smash Falcon from scratch.
-No FE villains

- I agree on Ganon; but his portrayal is an unfortunate circumstance. He was made that way in Melee to try bring him in because he was so popular in polls and has remained that way due to Sakurai not wanting to displease fans of his moveset (which there are). None of this points to disliking villains though; and I remember (though cannot source) a quote saying Sakurai quite enjoyed Ganondorf.

- Unfortunately Wolf is gone. However I think you'll find the reason is probably being cut due to time constraints as much as anything else. He's not completely gone yet either; wait and see if his ballot support is ignored first.

- Regarding K Rool: Not even Bowser was in Smash 64 so you cannot expect K Rool there. Melee happened during the Rare buyout so not even Diddy was used there. Diddy was then added in Brawl who was arguably a more important request to meet during Brawl. The Smash 4 absence is the most difficult to explain and in my opinion probably due to the fact he hasn't appeared in quite a while but he's not out of the running yet and has a costume if nothing else, which in my opinion was pre-ballot.

- I don't like Wario's moveset change either but this is a very minor thing I can't see fairly implying Sakurai hates villains.

- Porky is from a dead franchise. How many people who buy Smash genuinely know who even Ness is?

- Ridley has been done to death. In Sakurai's defense I believe that the guy does actually go out of his way to try include Ridley in some capacity because he knows how much fans want him, even if all he gets back from it is anger that Ridley isn't playable.

- F-Zero is dead and wasn't that popular when it was still going. Sakurai noted this fact during Falcon's reveal and it's been stated that characters from a series with no future are lower priority.

Now for the excuses/lies

Paraphrased: "Clones add to smash" No, no they don't unlike Roy and Lucas, Dr. Mario, Pit, and Lucina, not only don't add to smash they are arguably worse than the characters they're based off of. Quality over quantity, I would rather have a smaller diverse roster than a bigger roster in which 20% of the characters are repeats.

Regardless of whether you think they add, they certainly don't detract. Excluding those three wouldn't have got any additional characters. You still have the same number of unique characters to play as. Wanting them removed full stop is selfish, no two ways about it. If you want them changed that's a different matter but losing them gets you literally nothing in return.

Ridley... Everything about Ridley can be answered with Charizard. He even said at one point that size is irrelevant in Smash, so y'know whatever. Even figured out how Pac-man, G&W, Duck Hunt, Wii Fit Trainer, and R.O.B would work but he couldn't resolve a simple modeling issue? Word? Does anyone believe that?

I actually do believe him. The proportions of Ridley and Charizard are very different for starters. And the proportions are always the stuff that has been important. As for the other characters you've mentioned, they've all got fine proportions and in a lot of cases have space for a lot of creative liberties. You've already mentioned disliking Ganondorf; do you want Ridley to end up that way?

Whining...That's always the excuses isn't it? That's always the rationale, why? Why is that? Can't you come to any other conclusion than that?

What other conclusion am I supposed to come to? You chose to spontaneously start complaining about "husbandos and waifus". Besides, I have sat and spent the time trying to discuss each point with you - I'm not trying to simply brush you aside and tell you to stop talking.

Now I'm done, block me, ignore, reply, I don't care. But you have no right whatsoever to tell me what I should with my comments.

I agree, which is precisely why I asked you to stop.

At the end of the day, the thread is the King K. Rool thread, not "classic villains united against popular recent series". It's about supporting King K. Rool for Sm4sh, not hating on the rest. Why can't we discuss him? What sorts of inspiration would you like on his moveset? Are there any specific design choices you'd like to avoid? There are plenty of things to discuss that I haven't seen your perspective on and which I'd miss by simply hitting the block button.

 

[Diddy Kong]

are you sure?

Spoiler

Spoiler

No this is funny.

 

[Someguyyoulikelydontknow]

DK Jr would make so much sense and I could actually see Sakurai going for it in the future. Totally worthy retro character considering his importance to Nintendo's history.

Would we finally get a Kong that throws barrels in his moveset? It always baffled me that DK didn't throw a barrel as a special.

 

[Wintropy]

Would we finally get a Kong that throws barrels in his moveset? It always baffled me that DK didn't throw a barrel as a special.

Cargo hold is a nice nod to it, still.

I now want to see DK cargo hold a flailing K. Rool.

 

[PigmaskColonel]

Anyone else recognize him? That's Captain Blackeye, who was the villain of Dream, or rather, the beta version of Banjo-Kazooie.

 

[Someguyyoulikelydontknow]

If Sakurai, for whatever reason, designed K. Rool's moveset so it was more so inspired by generic "crocodile" moves, would you be okay with it? In other words, he drew inspiration for a few canon tricks for his specials, but otherwise his normal moves were just things like biting, scratching, tail-whipping and death rolls?

I'd be okay with it. A bit weirded out that K. Rool turned out to be an otherwise ordinary "heavy" fighter, but if he felt right, I'd go in for it.

I'd be a little miffed. I feel like K. Rool has so much more to pull from than generic slashes and bites. And it wouldn't help our case against the detractors who would say "See, K. Rool is just another scary beast like Bowser!". Although I could see this happening for some tilts and/or aerials. Maybe even Smashes.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Thought I'd share the results of King K. Rool's poll that @BluePikmin11 made.

K. Rool had the most votes.

1. King K. Rool: 795
Yes: 507
No: 234
Indifferent: 54

 

[Deleted member]

"He works hard at his mischief: Waluigi reportedly spent a lot of time training for his debut in Mario Tennis by honing his ability to antagonize the Mario brothers." - Melee trophy

"He spent a long time working silently in the shadow of the Mario Bros. before finally becoming strong enough to compete with them in Mario Tennis." - Brawl trophy

You know, I always forget how Waluigi was used to "represent" the Assists like some kind of ambassador in the Direct. Granted, most of them don't have merchandise of their own, but still it was a nice touch.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

On a more...negative side of things, do you think Sakurai might pull the same reasoning for not putting K.Rool in as he did for not putting Ridley in if we get a tied vote? Considering both are reasonably larger than their protagonists, Sakurai might not think a scaled-down K.Rool would work, either.

A frightening thought, but a very possible one.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

On a more...negative side of things, do you think Sakurai might pull the same reasoning for not putting K.Rool in as he did for not putting Ridley in if we get a tied vote? Considering both are reasonably larger than their protagonists, Sakurai might not think a scaled-down K.Rool would work, either.

A frightening thought, but a very possible one.

If that happened, Sakurai would receive huge backlash from fans, since Krool has been successfully scaled down in Mario Super Sluggers, if he tries to weasel his way out of not doing Krool with an excuse like that, bad things will happen to him, I really hope Sakurai's not that biased and stupid.

 

[DJ3DS]

On a more...negative side of things, do you think Sakurai might pull the same reasoning for not putting K.Rool in as he did for not putting Ridley in if we get a tied vote? Considering both are reasonably larger than their protagonists, Sakurai might not think a scaled-down K.Rool would work, either.

A frightening thought, but a very possible one.

I don't think this is a realistic concern.

Ridley's problem has always been stated to be his proportions. King K. Rool's proportions are significantly more conducive to rescaling, as evidenced by pretty much any PAON game he's in, and his Mii costume.

 

[Roaring Salsa]

And I made another one It's beautiful

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

And I made another one It's beautiful

7/10 Needs more Goroh. Its still good.

 

[Deleted member]

On a more...negative side of things, do you think Sakurai might pull the same reasoning for not putting K.Rool in as he did for not putting Ridley in if we get a tied vote? Considering both are reasonably larger than their protagonists, Sakurai might not think a scaled-down K.Rool would work, either.

A frightening thought, but a very possible one.

Considering Sakurai's issue with Ridley was more than just "lol too big", no.
The only game K. Rool is "considerably" larger (outside of 64's "Krusha" mode and Jungle Climber's giant mode) than DK is in the original DKC anyway, the same game DK and Diddy were the same size.

 

[IMainKingKRool]

So after my absence that was long enough for you people to pile up a whopping 50 more pages(!), I'm guessing from the past few that nothing of glaring significance has happened?
Guess we're just waiting for the end of the ballot, huh. We're down to less than a month...

Gotta say, though, I'm still fairly confident.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

I don't think this is a realistic concern.

Ridley's problem has always been stated to be his proportions. King K. Rool's proportions are significantly more conducive to rescaling, as evidenced by pretty much any PAON game he's in, and his Mii costume.

Ehh...I'm not too sure about the Mii costume. That's just a bunch of K.Rool's parts stuck onto a Mii's body, and I sure don't remember K.Rool proper having lanky legs, a tall, thin torso and a complete lack of a lower jaw. And the PAON games are spinoffs not connected to canon; so if we use them, then using stuff from Metroid on the NES, like Ridley's height, is valid, as that's considered equally "not canon".

And rescaling is about keeping the object's proportions the same as it was at the original size, which means that a properly rescaled Ridley shouldn't look off outside of the rescaling. It's like how Bowser continually shifts sizes in each Mario game; in fact, Ridley's even done the same size-shifting shenanigans! His canonical height is 12 feet tall, but various games depict him at many sizes; some as short as 7 or 8 feet, some as gigantic as 18-20 feet. Even if we're talking wingspan, that's still only around the same as his height and length; think of him as a 12x12x12 cube. As for weight...well, it's certainly not approaching 1,000 lbs. He's more likely to be less than that by a bit, because he can fly under his own power. Something approaching 500 lbs is most likely a proper weight estimate (given we don't actually have proper weight data for Ridley from any canonical source).
So either Sakurai has no idea how to rescale something (which isn't the case, since Olimar, Kirby, Dedede, Meta Knight and Sonic are all rescaled) or he's literally throwing an excuse word to try and defend his actions at this point.

If Sakurai wanted to represent Metroid's most iconic aspects (which are exploring alien worlds and fighting the Space Pirates), surely putting the Space Pirates' military leader would properly represent not only the series, but also the most important friggin' element to Samus' entire character. Ridley is the Moby **** to Samus' Captain Ahab, a constant looming presence over the protagonist by doing something terrible to them and a cause of great emotion for them. Without Ridley around to murder her parents, Samus Aran as we know her wouldn't exist in the canon. They embody the opposing sides of one another, with Samus being a protector of all life while Ridley seeks to destroy life that does not conform to his standards, preferably slowly and violently. Samus is altruistic and noble, while Ridley is selfish and cruel. Samus fights for the freedom of life, Ridley fights to rule over it.
They ultimately embody two opposing forces; Samus is the altruistic, noble person wanting to protect the right of freedom for all beings, while Ridley is the tyrant who wishes to rule everything as his own. They are brilliantly crafted so each plays off the other directly; with Ridley being a sort of corrupted, shattered mirror version of Samus' own personality. Without Ridley, Samus wouldn't be who she is; and without Samus, Ridley would have nothing to stop him from continuing his path of violence in the name of racial superiority. He's basically the closest a Nintendo villain has EVER gotten to Hitler in terms of racial ideals.

And seeing this brilliantly-crafted character be reduced to a giant punching bag that only barely tries to defend itself instead of what he actually is is just plain not acceptable to me. If King K.Rool was a stage boss in the next Smash that bared little in common with his canon persona, I'm sure all of us would be royally furious with it. I see no reason why Ridley's fans are supposed to bend over and accept this misrepresentation of their favourite character just because Sakurai says his chances aren't very good.

 

[Wintropy]

There's nothing in common between Ridley and K. Rool in terms of how Sakurai could conceivably depict them. K. Rool's proportions are similar to that of Bowser with a krown and a beer belly.

I understand that you're upset about the Ridley thing, but this isn't the Ridley thread. This is the K. Rool thread, where we discuss K. Rool. Using K. Rool as a proxy to criticise Ridley's depiction isn't good manners. The two have absolutely and fundamentally nothing in common.

 

[Joeyd123]

Not gonna lie, it would be kinda hard to make Ridley fit as a playable character.

But also look at Ganon.

 

[BKupa666]

As unbelievable as it seems to us right now, you could easily invent a Sakurai excuse for K. Rool's exclusion on the grounds of his size that would cause a great chunk of the fanbase to lump him in with Ridley. Ridley's excuse, reading it, is way more ideological than mechanical, and the same could easily happen with K. Rool.

Case in point: "I definitely know that K. Rool's a much-anticipated name for fans, but if we made K. Rool a fighter, it wouldn't be K. Rool any longer. He'd have to be shrunken down to DK's size, or have his belly reduced, or be unable to leap across Gangplank Galleon in one bound. Providing accurate portrayals of characters is something I want to pay ample attention to."

You might think it couldn't happen, that this would be the breaking point for people's defense of literally whatever happens with the game, but believe me, it wouldn't be.

 

[Wintropy]

As unbelievable as it seems to us right now, you could easily invent a Sakurai excuse for K. Rool's exclusion on the grounds of his size that would cause a great chunk of the fanbase to lump him in with Ridley.

Case in point: "I definitely know that K. Rool's a much-anticipated name for fans, but if we made K. Rool a fighter, it wouldn't be K. Rool any longer. He'd have to be shrunken down to DK's size, or have his belly reduced, or be unable to leap across Gangplank Galleon in one bound. Providing accurate portrayals of characters is something I want to pay ample attention to."

You might think it couldn't happen, that this would be the breaking point for people's defense of literally whatever happens with the game, but believe me, it wouldn't be. At this point, I don't think anything would.

It could, but I honestly think we're clutching at straws to make up new ways for Sakurai to disappoint us.

K. Rool isn't Ridley.

 

[Joeyd123]

As unbelievable as it seems to us right now, you could easily invent a Sakurai excuse for K. Rool's exclusion on the grounds of his size that would cause a great chunk of the fanbase to lump him in with Ridley.

Case in point: "I definitely know that K. Rool's a much-anticipated name for fans, but if we made K. Rool a fighter, it wouldn't be K. Rool any longer. He'd have to be shrunken down to DK's size, or have his belly reduced, or be unable to leap across Gangplank Galleon in one bound. Providing accurate portrayals of characters is something I want to pay ample attention to."

You might think it couldn't happen, that this would be the breaking point for people's defense of literally whatever happens with the game, but believe me, it wouldn't be. At this point, I don't think anything would.

If that was the reasoning, I would respect that tbh.

 

[BKupa666]

It could, but I honestly think we're clutching at straws to make up new ways for Sakurai to disappoint us.

K. Rool isn't Ridley.

You can only really say that in hindsight, though. Just last year, almost everyone thought 'too big' was a ridiculous non-argument. And now, look...the entire Ridley fanbase has gone underground because everyone else looks at them as though they have the 'delusional plague' or something for NOT thinking Ridley is an impossible choice.

A similar thing happened to K. Rool with 'relevance,' actually...a lot of people discounted the argument up until release, but then acted as though it was so obviously correct that all the old K. Rool fans were just "a loud vocal minority." (This is why the talking point remains that K. Rool support only started when the ballot did, and the costume could have only come from this bandwagon).

Right now it feels silly, but if we end up getting disappointed, there's almost certainly going to be a disappointing reason why. Nothing stands in K. Rool's path right now that could not be resolved if the developers actively wanted to find a workaround.

If that was the reasoning, I would respect that tbh.

What do you find respectable about that? Because I made that intentionally over-the-top insane for the sake of making a point.

 

[Kenith]

To be honest, I think Ridley not being able to work as a fighter is pretty BS on Sakurai's part; in fact I think that there's more reasons than "not being to fly around freely" for his not being added.
So if he used a similar logic to that for a completely plausible and totally-not-problematic character I would find it outrageous.

 

[AncientTobacco]

Why are you lot constantly entertaining ridiculous reasons for K. Rool's potential exclusion?

Seriously.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

To be honest, I think Ridley not being able to work as a fighter is pretty BS on Sakurai's part; in fact I think that there's more reasons than "not being to fly around freely" for his not being added.
So if he used a similar logic to that for a completely plausible and totally-not-problematic character I would find it outrageous.

To help you with the fly around freely part

If ridley banned from not flying freely

How comes these characters can't fly around freely
(His clown chopper)(jet pack)(Wing pikmin) / (balloon helmets)


And the balancing problem part

Oh come on sakurai people have fixed balancing problems that big before



And the shrinking to ruin they're mencing looks

Still look menecing even shrunken to tons of people
(This includes are king if he wins)

 

[Wintropy]

You can only really say that in hindsight, though. Just last year, almost everyone thought 'too big' was a ridiculous non-argument. And now, look...the entire Ridley fanbase has gone underground because everyone else looks at them as though they have the 'delusional plague' or something for NOT thinking Ridley is an impossible choice.

A similar thing happened to K. Rool with 'relevance,' actually...a lot of people discounted the argument up until release, but then acted as though it was so obviously correct that all the old K. Rool fans were just "a loud vocal minority." (This is why the talking point remains that K. Rool support only started when the ballot did, and the costume could have only come from this bandwagon).

Right now it feels silly, but if we end up getting disappointed, there's almost certainly going to be a disappointing reason why. Nothing stands in K. Rool's path right now that could not be resolved if the developers actively wanted to find a workaround.

Because Sakurai didn't say he's "too big". That's just twisting what Sakurai said to fit a hysterical notion that became a recurrent meme before the game's release. What Sakurai said is that he didn't think his depiction of Ridley in the game was satisfactory, because he couldn't get the proportions right, he didn't think it was correct for Ridley to remain grounded, he didn't know how to balance a fast, heavy, strong, air fighter whilst keeping him close to his canon proportions, he just didn't feel content with the ideas he had in mind.

None of that equates to "he's too big". Ridley's just a perfect storm of awkward concepts and mish-mashed variables that Sakurai didn't want to devote too much time and resources to develop.

This coming from a Ridley supporter, who was there on the front lines every time the ship went down, it isn't as black and white as "detractors were right, Sakurai hates Ridley". There's just this dualistic concept of historical revisionism and social martyrdom over a character in a video game that Sakurai didn't think worked.

That said, you're missing the point. My comment isn't to pay heed to the theory that Sakurai could disconfirm K. Rool in a similarly inane way to Ridley's disconfirmation, it's that hijacking a thread about K. Rool to vent frustration about Ridley when the topic has nothing to do with it makes me want to punch a hole in the wall.

 

[Bananija]

To help you with the fly around freely part

If ridley banned from not flying freely

How comes these characters can't fly around freely
(His clown chopper)(jet pack)(Wing pikmin) / (balloon helmets)


And the balancing problem part

Oh come on sakurai people have fixed balancing problems that big before



And the shrinking to ruin they're mencing looks

Still look menecing even shrunken to tons of people
(This includes are king if he wins)

Do you realley find this menacing?

However, I agree with you and I understand that it isn't is reduced size that made him He-Man.

Because Sakurai didn't say he's "too big". That's just twisting what Sakurai said to fit a hysterical notion that became a recurrent meme before the game's release. What Sakurai said is that he didn't think his depiction of Ridley in the game was satisfactory, because he couldn't get the proportions right, he didn't think it was correct for Ridley to remain grounded, he didn't know how to balance a fast, heavy, strong, air fighter whilst keeping him close to his canon proportions, he just didn't feel content with the ideas he had in mind.

None of that equates to "he's too big". Ridley's just a perfect storm of awkward concepts and mish-mashed variables that Sakurai didn't want to devote too much time and resources to develop.

This coming from a Ridley supporter, who was there on the front lines every time the ship went down, it isn't as black and white as "detractors were right, Sakurai hates Ridley". There's just this dualistic concept of historical revisionism and social martyrdom over a character in a video game that Sakurai didn't think worked.

That said, you're missing the point. My comment isn't to pay heed to the theory that Sakurai could disconfirm K. Rool in a similarly inane way to Ridley's disconfirmation, it's that hijacking a thread about K. Rool to vent frustration about Ridley when the topic has nothing to do with it makes me want to punch a hole in the wall.

So instead he made him being beaten to join your side...

But I agree that we shouldn't be taking our rage about Ridley case in Smash here. And I'm still optimistic for Smash 5 about him.

 

[MainJPW]

Still look menecing even shrunken to tons of people
(This includes are king if he wins)

DK's menacing?

 

[oinkers12]

I'm going to state my opinion on the whole Ridley matter. Basically, Ridley is not impossible at this point. Most of Ridley's detractors probably forgot that Sakurai changed his opinions on Villager and Pac-Man. Sakurai may not have been able to get Ridley to work now, but there's no reason as to why he couldn't work later.

I hate this Ridley mentality that a lot of people have. Nobody can say that Sakurai's opinion on the matter is set in stone when his opinion changes basically every game. I'm not saying Ridley has the best chances in the world (as of now) but saying that he is impossible is like saying Pac-Man is impossible.

I'm just going to state my personal theory about Ridley in Smash 4. As a boss character, Ridley is the only one with a character icon and falling down animations. It's highly possible he was in development but Sakurai pushed his development aside when he couldn't find a good solution in the time allotted. The game has time constraints and he probably didn't want to spend his time on one character instead of working on other characters that were easier to make by the time the game released. I want Ridley as much as anyone else but this could be a legitimate reason as to why he's not in the game.

A lot of people also don't seem to realize is that Sakurai is a human being. He has opinions and those opinions change. Even if he initially made the Mii costume as a consolation prize, there's no reason (especially while the ballot is still going) for him to not be able to have a change in his opinions.

 

[SuperSegaSonicSS]

To help you with the fly around freely part

If ridley banned from not flying freely

How comes these characters can't fly around freely
(His clown chopper)(jet pack)(Wing pikmin) / (balloon helmets)


And the balancing problem part

Oh come on sakurai people have fixed balancing problems that big before



And the shrinking to ruin they're mencing looks

Still look menecing even shrunken to tons of people
(This includes are king if he wins)

DK, scary?

And Bowser lost that card since his SMW sprite.

 

[IMainKingKRool]

I really don't think K. Rool's situation is comparable to that of Ridley. And that's all I have to say about it.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

The excuse I see Sakurai giving for K. Rool's exclusion (if any) is that he can't think of an interesting set of moves for him, as stupid as that may seem.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

There's nothing in common between Ridley and K. Rool in terms of how Sakurai could conceivably depict them. K. Rool's proportions are similar to that of Bowser with a krown and a beer belly.

I understand that you're upset about the Ridley thing, but this isn't the Ridley thread. This is the K. Rool thread, where we discuss K. Rool. Using K. Rool as a proxy to criticise Ridley's depiction isn't good manners. The two have absolutely and fundamentally nothing in common.

I have been on the Smash Reddit recently, so that may be why that provoked a response out of me. I'm also tired of hearing people constantly have this idea that Ridley "isn't conductive to rescaling" when rescaling (in the way most people use it against Ridley) literally refers to just changing a character's body size, not their proportions. Being in the club that gets hounded for what they like eventually drains you of much to be happy about, as well...and makes you kind of irritable. I guess I'm becoming a grump.

And I'm as much fearful for K.Rool being portrayed well as I am with Ridley; what if we just get a Bowser-like character with some better projectiles? But at least K.Rool's fans haven't endured 7 years of scorn and derision (and counting) solely based on one reason that misrepresents the character. Sure, you have those guys who deride K.Rool for many reasons, but K.Rool doesn't have pervasive Internet memes specifically about how people don't think you can work in Smash, either. K.Rool doesn't have the roadblock of the game's creator saying up front that he doesn't think he could work. Thanks to the hell we've been getting dragged through this long, I'm not surprised they had to take action regarding Ridley discussion on the character boards.

Every time we try to get him in the game, we're met with derision and mockery. Every time we end up failing, we get cries of "I told you so!" and other such remarks. I'll reiterate another point I made elsewhere; if people in this community can make the Transformers fandom, the group that always hears cries of "Ruined FOREVER!" whenever something new comes from the franchise, look peaceful, there's something seriously wrong with the way we treat certain characters and their fans. And honestly, limiting Ridley discussion to the Space Pirates' group alone is not conductive to teaching people to accept that we exist and that they shouldn't be obligated to harass us based on who we show support to.
Barring discussion on Ridley to only a private group only encourages people to treat him as a dumb choice for that reason. And because Ridley's fans are limited to that group to show support, that means that people treat them as a "minority choice", causing them to mock people who show their support, and thus we feel the need to defend our choice, beginning yet another argument.

All of this stems from Sakurai, if we want to admit it or not. Now, I'll admit he didn't seem this way in Brawl...but now, he seems to have some amount of spite for us for some reason. All the other guys that were declared not playable got that done in a lighthearted tone. Ridley? Basically just got clubbed over the skull with no remorse by Sakurai's reasoning. I'd be fine with it, personally...if the role he had was even remotely close to how he actually behaves. Ridley basically just fights like an archetypal dragon outside of his stage gimmick; fly, spit fire, slash with claws, tackle; none of that screams "intelligent military leader and cruel, sadistic sociopath" at all, which is what Ridley is as a character. It's like he thinks Ridley's just a generic dragon enemy or something!

And that's the biggest issue I have with Sakurai; he claims to be "representing characters accurately". In terms of visuals..Ridley's decent, but not great. In terms of everything ELSE about him...he's so far off the mark it's not even funny.
As an example, say I'm a customer at a restaurant, and I order chicken breasts with a side of potato wedges. If I'm then given a plate that has turkey drumsticks with a side of sliced tomato, I'm going to ask the waiter about why I had the wrong order. If I can't get what I asked for on their menu whenever I go to that restaurant, eventually I'll start telling others about the poor service; and if they refuse to acknowledge they didn't give me what I had actually asked for, then clearly I'm going to take my money elsewhere.

That's what it's like; we're getting a facsimile of what we wanted (Ridley as a boss with player character-like traits), not what we actually wanted (Ridley as a playable character on the roster).

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Smashboards! Where every 10 pages, there's at least 2 Ridley discussions!

 

[Kenith]

Why are you lot constantly entertaining ridiculous reasons for K. Rool's potential exclusion?

Seriously.

Because Sakurai has ridiculous reasons for things?

 

[A Distant Demon]

K rool doesn't really have Ridley's problems so I really don't understand why they are being compared.
I mean he may have issues but they are certainly vastly different if so.

Smashboards! Where every 10 pages, there's at least 2 Ridley discussions!

Yeah things have really gone down hill in recent months. . . It used to be every 2 pages

EDIT words

 

[BowserK.Rool]

I alm

DK, scary?

View attachment 71884

And Bowser lost that card since his SMW sprite.

Not really.

 

[Joeyd123]

What do you find respectable about that? Because I made that intentionally over-the-top insane for the sake of making a point.

If Sakurai actually thought it would make K Rool not K Rool and explained why with a reasonble reason, then I would respect the decision.

As opposed to "Ridley's too big"

 

[Joeyd123]

Smashboards! Where every 10 pages, there's at least 2 Ridley discussions!

We're bored man