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K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

CelerinaTheJackrabbit

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Taking another character's moveset and just changing a chunk of moves is only acceptable if your name isn't K. Rool, hm?

Beyond the attacks he physically can't do, if you look at physiology, K. Rool would look out of place doing a lot of Bowser's other attacks too. Bowser has giant stumpy legs, perfect for drop kicks, and large arms that can easily perform ranged punches. By comparison, K. Rool has little legs and T-Rex arms, his mass primarily being located in his body rather than distributed like Bowser's.
Exactly why I can see him doing the Dedede Nair. Put that bulk to use. And besides that fair slashing, I can't really see him doing much more that Bowser does. I mean, you'd be really stretching it to make him a Bowser Clone in the first place.
 

Joeyd123

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I don't expect Dixie and K. Rool either. I just think its more likely for them both to get in than JUST Dixie.




I think Casual players only impact the ballot in a very limited way. And as far as Isaac is concerned, I heard his name flying around all the time around the time of Brawl, and on various sites online right now I visit, he's a very common suggestion.


If any casuals vote, they'll vote for random characters, or characters suggested by more hardcore players. They're not going to vote for characters that are easy to implement or will provide a unique experience that a lot of Smash hardcore players will. Largely they'll vote for "cool" characters they see elsewhere, many of whom won't even be video game characters, and otherwise they'll largely be third-parties as well.
You don't think many will vote for Waluigi, Toad, or Daisy? When I was younger my vote for sure would have went to Toad
 
D

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That's true, but you have to keep in mind that the situation is different this time around.

The polls hosted for other games in the franchise were just rough indicators for Sakurai, and, AFAIK, never made any promises unlike the Ballot. This is also DLC, which means "more popularity = more sales".
You raise a good point about the situation being different due to DLC, however the Ballot hasn't made any promises either. All that has been said is that "If you post a video-game character’s name, we’ll consider turning that character into a Smash fighter!" in the English site, which makes no promise to actually add a character, let alone as DLC for Smash Wii U/3DS.
This statement is excluded from the Japanese ballot.

And going back to what Iwata was saying in the April Direct (R.I.P.), he stated that Sakurai and the development team would be "taking every request into consideration when developing additional titles", implying it's not SOLELY for Smash 4 DLC.
 
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Pakky

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That's true, but you have to keep in mind that the situation is different this time around.

The polls hosted for other games in the franchise were just rough indicators for Sakurai, and, AFAIK, never made any promises unlike the Ballot. This is also DLC, which means "more popularity = more sales".

Oh for god's sake.

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/01/smash-clones/

Read it.
...Okay I knew all of this already.
 

JaidynReiman

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You don't think many will vote for Waluigi, Toad, or Daisy? When I was younger my vote for sure would have went to Toad
Oh, I'm sure some will. And they'll be denied as well. I see no chance of any of those three being added, especially as DLC.
 

Joeyd123

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You raise a good point about the situation being different due to DLC, however the Ballot hasn't made any promises either. All that has been said is that "If you post a video-game character’s name, we’ll consider turning that character into a Smash fighter!" in the English site, which makes no promise to actually add a character, let alone as DLC for Smash Wii U/3DS.
This statement is excluded from the Japanese ballot.
Yeah many people think the DLC is gonna be like the top 5 most voted characters which I highly doubt will happen.
 

Pakky

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Yeah many people think the DLC is gonna be like the top 5 most voted characters which I highly doubt will happen.
Then who, a bunch nobodies? Perhaps Doraemon will make an appearance... because why not.
 
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Joeyd123

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Oh, I'm sure some will. And they'll be denied as well. I see no chance of any of those three being added, especially as DLC.
Waluigi- probably not (sadly)
Daisy- could actually be a Peach clone therefore I wouldn't count her out
Toad- popular character, with personality. People say he has no moveset potential, but they found a way to make Duck Hunt and ROB work, so why not Toad?
 

Pakky

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Waluigi- probably not (sadly)
Daisy- could actually be a Peach clone therefore I wouldn't count her out
Toad- popular character, with personality. People say he has no moveset potential, but they found a way to make Duck Hunt and ROB work, so why not Toad?
Captain Toad is a thing. However this is going off topic, shouldn't general DLC discussion be held in the general DLC discussion thread?
 
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Joeyd123

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Then who, a bunch nobodies?
No. But I wouldn't be surprised if they save a character like Inkling for the next Smash. (since Smash is somewhat of a tribute to the last gen console). And also Nintendo will want characters that are easier for them to create (clones and semiclones probably) and characters they also like (Shrek
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°))
 
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AncientTobacco

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You raise a good point about the situation being different due to DLC, however the Ballot hasn't made any promises either. All that has been said is that "If you post a video-game character’s name, we’ll consider turning that character into a Smash fighter!" in the English site, which makes no promise to actually add a character, let alone as DLC for Smash Wii U/3DS.
This statement is excluded from the Japanese ballot.

And going back to what Iwata was saying in the April Direct (R.I.P.), he stated that Sakurai and the development team would be "taking every request into consideration when developing additional titles", implying it's not SOLELY for Smash 4 DLC.
Of course, I wasn't implying that the Ballot made any promises to add characters. But isn't even the consideration thing new? Or did the old polls have similar statements? Interesting observation about that quote missing from the Japanese site, btw.

There's also Sakurai's "fan-service from now on" comment.
 
D

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Of course, I wasn't implying that the Ballot made any promises to add characters. But isn't even the consideration thing new? Or did the old polls have similar statements? Interesting observation about that quote missing from the Japanese site, btw.

There's also Sakurai's "fan-service from now on" comment.
Sakurai using the word "fan-service" shouldn't probably be taken to heart.
After all, he did refer to adding the Melee clones as a "fan service".

What "fan service" means to Sakurai isn't merely "what fans say they want", but rather "what is expected to make fans happy".

As for the older polls, I'd have to look through the old pre-Melee poll (the only poll I can really access) to check.

EDIT: The poll is kind of like the ballot.
It was a survey for "Who I Want for Smash 2" before Melee was in development. It was made "just in case".
 
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memoryman3

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You mean Captain Toad, right? Because regular Toad is still Peach's meatshield.
Yeaaaaahhhhh....but Captain Toad's main hook is that he cannot jump.

This is getting off topic.........
 

SuperSmashSean

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Besides the topic we are on, do you think K. Rool will come with a stage. I know this had to be talked about before but whatever. I hope so, and I believe so too. It would be a complete missed opportunity not too. I don't care what stage, and even if he doesn't come with one at all, I just want the king.
 

BKupa666

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I was waiting for someone to bring this up.

Non-circumstantial examples (i.e. planned ahead of time):
Smash 64: Mario and Luigi, Pikachu and Jigglypuff
(Bowser, Mewtwo, and Dedede would have also added to this tally)

Melee: Bowser and Peach
And if you want to get technical, Zelda and Sheik, though they have the excuse of being the same individual and introduced together through a transforming gimmick.

Brawl: Meta Knight and King Dedede, Pokémon Trainer and Lucario
(Toon Zelda/Sheik was also planned as filler, so it could have been Toon Link and Toon Zelda/Sheik)

Smash 4: Rosalina and Bowser Jr.

Circumstantial examples (i.e. not planned ahead of time):
Melee: Mewtwo and Pichu (last minute clone), Marth and Roy (last minute clone), Bowser/Peach and Dr. Mario (last minute clone), Zelda/Sheik and Young Link/Ganondorf (last minute clones)

Brawl: None, but it could have been Diddy and Dixie (separate).

Smash 4: Robin and Lucina (last minute clone), Palutena and Dark Pit (last minute clone)

Notice how Sakurai has mainly avoided double-dipping in initial plans, and has become less inclined to do so over the years, with just this latest game only featuring a single double-dip that wasn't a result of certain character alts getting their own placements on the roster later in development.

Now, DLC has come into the picture for the first time in the series. This can easily change things, such as for example, Elma or Paper Mario being alongside Shulk and Rosalina/Jr. But at the same time, with how limited DLC is going to be, I don't think series are going to double-dip the DLC. I'm not expecting another Pokémon, be it another returning veteran (Pichu, Squirtle, Ivysaur) or a newcomer (Sceptile) because of Mewtwo. I'm not expecting someone like Corrin because of Roy (though to be fair, I wouldn't have expected Corrin even if Roy wasn't DLC). So likewise, I will not expect both Dixie and K. Rool.

Do I want it to happen? **** yes. But I'm not betting on it happening. That way if it does happen, it will be a pleasant surprise, and if it doesn't, I wouldn't have gotten my hopes up for nothing.
The other thing to consider is whether DLC counts as double-dipping with the main roster. We got an additional Pokemon and FE character with Mewtwo and Roy, so unless that gets spun as "they're veterans so they get a free pass" or "only DLC double-dipping is an abomination," they've already done overlap for the sake of appeasing fans.

Exactly why I can see him doing the Dedede Nair. Put that bulk to use. And besides that fair slashing, I can't really see him doing much more that Bowser does. I mean, you'd be really stretching it to make him a Bowser Clone in the first place.
Yeah, that could definitely happen, since a lot of standards get reused between characters (multiple characters having uppercut or downward kick U-Tilts, belly flops or dual sword slashes N-Airs, kicks for B-Airs, etc.). It's only because K. Rool is heavy that some perceive this as clone-y...you never get complaints that any mid- or lightweight characters would be "just like Mario" or "just like Fox."
 
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Taking another character's moveset and just changing a chunk of moves is only acceptable if your name isn't K. Rool, hm?

Beyond the attacks he physically can't do, if you look at physiology, K. Rool would look out of place doing a lot of Bowser's other attacks too. Bowser has giant stumpy legs, perfect for drop kicks, and large arms that can easily perform ranged punches. By comparison, K. Rool has little legs and T-Rex arms, his mass primarily being located in his body rather than distributed like Bowser's.

The comparison really feels like "Mega Man would be a Samus clone," except in that comparison, there's none of the inherent bias against heavyweights that is present here.
T-Rex arms? Have you seen his rare design, K. Rools arms are huge!

His arms are bigger than his whole chest area!
 
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CelerinaTheJackrabbit

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Yeah, that could definitely happen, since a lot of standards get reused between characters (multiple characters having uppercut or downward kick U-Tilts, belly flops or dual sword slashes N-Airs, kicks for B-Airs, etc.). It's only because K. Rool is heavy that some perceive this as clone-y...you never get complaints that any mid- or lightweight characters would be "just like Mario" or "just like Fox."
Honestly, you look at half the cast and you can basically 'relate' their moveset to someone else. I feel there are very few unique moves, at least standard attacks wise.

Though I would disagree say you would get that same clone-ness arguement with the other characters. Such as Peach and Daisy, Paper Mario somehow being a Mario clone, Wolf still somehow being considered a Fox clone by some folks... I guess it's just the more casual folks who don't see the uniqueness that every character could have. Or just detracting to put this character down.
 
D

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The other thing to consider is whether DLC counts as double-dipping with the main roster. We got an additional Pokemon and FE character with Mewtwo and Roy, so unless that gets spun as "they're veterans so they get a free pass" or "only DLC double-dipping is an abomination," they've already done overlap for the sake of appeasing fans.
Note how I didn't mention Dr. Mario alongside Dark Pit and Lucina for Smash 4.
The only factor a returning veteran applies for the "double-dip" logic is through series-based DLC because again, DLC is limited.

And before you spin that as "arbitrarily imposed limitations" or whatever, I've already established that DLC can easily change things and that the case of two characters for a series with DLC is something I'm simply not optimistic about. I'm not imposing my beliefs as fact.
 
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Joeyd123

Smash Ace
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Besides the topic we are on, do you think K. Rool will come with a stage. I know this had to be talked about before but whatever. I hope so, and I believe so too. It would be a complete missed opportunity not too. I don't care what stage, and even if he doesn't come with one at all, I just want the king.
Give us the stage with the DK Rap Sakurai!
 

Senselessbreak

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Give us the stage with the DK Rap Sakurai!
I gotta say, Sakurai apparently never played DKC, since none of the stages are actually from the series....but I do really like the look the Melee stages, and Kinda wish we could go there in the DKC games.
 
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Joeyd123

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Kongo Jungle from Melee? It was one of my favorites, so I would get it. Better yet, give the full version of the DK Rap in Smash 4. Lanky's and Chunky's segments are completely missing in this game!
Yeah Kongo Jungle I couldn't remember the stage name off the top of my head
 

BKupa666

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Honestly, you look at half the cast and you can basically 'relate' their moveset to someone else. I feel there are very few unique moves, at least standard attacks wise.

Though I would disagree say you would get that same clone-ness arguement with the other characters. Such as Peach and Daisy, Paper Mario somehow being a Mario clone, Wolf still somehow being considered a Fox clone by some folks... I guess it's just the more casual folks who don't see the uniqueness that every character could have. Or just detracting to put this character down.
Yeah, it's a bit of both. K. Rool gets the same sort of comparison to a superficially similar character as those examples you listed, but also the "just another fat slow heavy bottom tier" complaint that, from an outsider's view, would make you think the roster is just overflowing with "fat slow heavy bottom tier" characters.

Besides the topic we are on, do you think K. Rool will come with a stage. I know this had to be talked about before but whatever. I hope so, and I believe so too. It would be a complete missed opportunity not too. I don't care what stage, and even if he doesn't come with one at all, I just want the king.
One new stage as DLC isn't really enough precedent to tell, but I really hope so. It's not "overlapping" with anything for DK to have a new stage as DLC, or to have a new stage on the 3DS at all.
 

JaidynReiman

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I gotta say, Sakurai apparently never played DKC, since none of the stages are actually from the series....but I do really like the look the Melee stages, and Kinda wish we could go there in the DKC games.
The names are from the series, at least. Jungle Japes is named after the first world of DK64, and Cranky's cabin is based on his cabin from DKC. Kongo Jungle is also the first world of DK64, even though both the Melee stages are based on a river setting, and there's no river levels in DKC (there are river levels in DKC3 though, but those aren't set on DK Isle).
 

JaidynReiman

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Kongo Jungle 64 definitely handles the aesthetic down quite a bit.


Also, Rumble Falls was never planned to imitate DKC anyway. That was based on Jungle Beat instead, and yes, it is based DIRECTLY on levels from Jungle Beat.
 

Senselessbreak

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The names are from the series, at least. Jungle Japes is named after the first world of DK64, and Cranky's cabin is based on his cabin from DKC. Kongo Jungle is also the first world of DK64, even though both the Melee stages are based on a river setting, and there's no river levels in DKC (there are river levels in DKC3 though, but those aren't set on DK Isle).
On a random note.....I would absolutely LOVEE a fully 3D DK game using the world from the first 3 DKC games. I mean like taking the map screen and fully creating that into a sandbox like world!

I mean for example look at this world, and tell me this would be amazing in in 3D:

EDIT: It seems like someone has began working on something like this:

http://www.dkc-atlas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1688&start=200



Also this is on the GBA
 
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JaidynReiman

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On a random note.....I would absolutely LOVEE a fully 3D DK game using the world from the first 3 DKC games. I mean like taking the map screen and fully creating that into a sandbox like world!

I mean for example look at this world, and tell me this would be amazing in in 3D:



EDIT: It seems like someone has began working on something like this:

http://www.dkc-atlas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1688&start=200
I would like to see a fully 3D designed DK Isle, maybe even Crocodile Isle. I think Retro could pull it off well and I really hope they are working on something like that.
 

Senselessbreak

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I would like to see a fully 3D designed DK Isle, maybe even Crocodile Isle. I think Retro could pull it off well and I really hope they are working on something like that.
I just thought of something! I know it won't be spot on, but if anyone is interested, we could start a server and try recreating the DKC worlds in a game like Minecraft. Something that can bring the community together!
 
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