Just wanna throw something out there in regards to the whole ban stick thing

[Natch]

If Metaknight wasn't in danger of being banned, he wouldn't be in danger of being banned.

If there was no reason to talk about his banning, no one would be talking about his banning.

Just letting you guys know, if MK had some flaw in him we could exploit, we'd've found it by now. Hell, people found something as obscure as a Grab-lock-release chain for Lucas and Ness. I still hope for MK to have some glaring weakness, but so far, there seems to be none.

Also, just letting you guys know, this is a lose-lose-how-can-you-****-that-up situation.

1. He gets banned, weather by SBR or by tourney hosts.

2. He doesn't get banned BECAUSE somebody found his "kryptonite".

3. No flaws are found, no bans are hammered. Flispide is that nobody's gonna like you for playing MK, and will ***** at every oppurtunity, just as they are now. People will slowly leave Brawl, due to too many MK's around, and too much of "Captain Bland's Monotanous Adventure" going on. Brawl dies. Congratu-****ing-lations Metaknight, you killed the entire competitive scene for a very popular game.


He's either banned, starts losing more, or nobody ends up liking you and brawl dies due to people who don't take **** and decide to leave.

I'm not arguing for his banning, his non-banning, or anything. I'm just telling one of 3 things that will happen, as they are the only 3 things that CAN happen.

If you can think of another possibility, please tell me.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Congratu-****ing-lations Metaknight, you killed the entire competitive scene for a very popular game.

KK, Street Fighter IV anyone?

 

[Pit_the_Angel]

Meta Knight has matchups that aren't FAVORABLE, and thus the game stays "balanced." At Fast1, Reflex's Wario beat M2K's MK by enough of a margin that M2K decided to switch to DDD. To me, this is an extremely good sign.

 

[JJR.O.B.]

If you can think of another possibility, please tell me.

or everyone will start to play as Metaknight.

 

[IShotLazer]

Reflex did well... but M2k picked Dedede because at the time that was his more fluent character and had an even better matchup than Metaknight did. He still could have picked his MK and won, but why risk it when you have a better counter to follow up on?
If everyone picks MK, the game will die out.

 

[Alus]

If you can think of another possibility, please tell me.

A amazing glitch could take place and be used effectively... and it could apply to everyone exept metaknight....making him therefor bottom tier....

 

[Mew2King]

stop whining, just learn to fight 1 character. Back when I mained DDD, I liked fighting MKs, and I play the best MKs in the world. I've played Azen Forte InfernoOmni Plank DSF, and the only one that beat my DDD more than I beat their MK was Azen, everyone else my DDD won the majority in a matchup that that I'm SUPPOSEDLY countered in. I got bored of DDD cuz his best strategies are too repetitive, so I switched mains.

I like fighting MKs, I like using MK, no different than Marth in melee.

MK will not get banned, if he does get banned it's only going to be for specific tourneys, the tourney hosts make the rules. If they were to ban MK at a tourney, a lot less people would show, it would be their loss because of a smaller turnout. He's not that much better than the other characters at all, Falco Snake and MK are all around the same level, just like Sheik Marth Fox in melee.

 

[PinkMarshMallow]

MK is not completely broken, there other players that can play up to MK level.

If only Kirby can take on MK like in his games INHALE

 

[Sinz]

This whole banning stuff really just needs to stop. Yeah, he is pretty much top tier. Or at least he is

Spoiler

for now

. Snake has a good match up against MK, if he doesn't be dumb. And falco has a favorable match up too. And supposedly Yoshi, but I don't know about that one.

Some people even say Charizard counters him.

 

[Natch]

I never once said Meta's broken. Guys, chill. The very virtue of the fact that ONE guy beat ANOTHER guy's MK, means nothing.

Have you heard about that guy who survivied plane crash X? Yeah, that means there's hope for other people in plane crashes because they CAN survive too.

It's not the norm, it's the exception. Also, if the metagame is such that, regardless of whom I main, I MUST learn how to fight ONE character, there's an issue. T

Again, MK is not impossible to beat, he's not broken, etc. It's just that there is no one character that slaughters him outright.

Quick, name 5 characters who slaughter Gannondorf!
Quick, name one character who slaughters Metanight in a similar fashion!
Quick, name 5 characters who Metaknight slaughters in a similar fashion!

See what I'm getting at? He's an uphill battle for ALMOST ALL of the cast. And he has no really bad matchups. I mean really bad, like Gdorf bad. More or less every character in the game has at least two matchups who're Gdorf bad or somewhere in that region.

Now, to respond to quotes.

A amazing glitch could take place and be used effectively... and it could apply to everyone exept metaknight....making him therefor bottom tier....

or everyone will start to play as Metaknight.

KK, Street Fighter IV anyone?

Brawl VS Street Fighter:

Brawl:
-No health bars.
-Complex aerial game.
-Can recover if thrown off the ledge.
-Extension from above, complex ledge guarding aspect.
-No button sequences for standard attacks beyond a direction chosen and a button pressed.
-No ****ing health bars.

These games are far from comparable. If MK was in Street Fighter, he'd suck. He has low damaging attacks, a low "health bar". His ledge game, aerial game, and recovery game are GONE, etc. Also, MK can hardley gimp at all, due to the fact that he can't KO at "Low percents" anymore.

These are completly different games, comparing is nearly impossible.

To the rest of people who have to name specific characters, players, or matches, please don't. Unless those characters consistently **** MK,-as in every single MK main out there fears this match and has next to no chance at all to win-don't mention them otherwise.

-If you name players, just stop. Thousands of people play Brawl competitively, and that's prolly a low end estrimate.
-If you name characters, unless those characters **** MK and make every MK main crap their pants in fear, don't mention them.
-If you name specific matches that are in the top 8, you better be able to back it up with that same character beating MK(That character must be not MK himself), played by a wide variety of players. Anything less than 25 doesn't work. I'm dead serious. If you can't find 25 bloody players who beat MK with someone else who's not MK-in the top 8 as well-that's just ridiculous.

If you respond with "Just learn to overcome him, stop whining, he's not that good."?

Shut up. If it's to the point where all you can say is "Just overcome him", it's bad. If I'm playing Ike, for instance, and someone is saying he's too hard? "Just use Lucas and PK Fire." Because the skill argument applies to every character, regardless of standing in the tiers. Therefore, it is a pointless argument with a moot point, because every character, to some extent, has to overcome every single character in the game via skill. If skill+[One character who sorta counters MK or at least gives him a hard time] is the ONLY suggestion you can give me to beat MK, then it's pointless to give it.

People wouldn't "Whine" about MK if there was nothing to "Whine" about. You see people rallying to ban say, Snake, Marth, Falco, etc with the same gusto and vigor as they want to ban MK? No.

There's a reason for that.

I never complained one bit about MK, I just told you guys what COULD happen. You seemed to jump the gun here, so I decided to counter your points. Please stop arguing with me, okay? I was on the speech and debate at school, our coach was a ****ing FEDERAL COURT JUDGE. He's been practicing law for over 40 years. So please, know that if you make a claim, you better be ready to back it up with example upon example upon example. The burden of proof is on you, because you made the claim. Your claim must also represent how things are RIGHT NOW, not how things COULD BE. We're in the present, not the future.

 

[Rh1thmz]

I think I'll take a counter-approach more similar to the approach you used in order to help drive home my point.

Please stop arguing with me, okay? I was on the speech and debate at school, our coach was a ****ing FEDERAL COURT JUDGE. He's been practicing law for over 40 years.

I just thought that, in response to such a bold statement, I'd point out a few things pertaining to your post:

Your claim must also represent how things are RIGHT NOW, not how things COULD BE. We're in the present, not the future.

See that quote above this line? Now see the quote below this line:

I never complained one bit about MK, I just told you guys what COULD happen.

Seems a bit contradictory/hypocritical to me, eh?

-If you name specific matches that are in the top 8, you better be able to back it up with that same character beating MK(That character must be not MK himself), played by a wide variety of players. Anything less than 25 doesn't work. I'm dead serious. If you can't find 25 bloody players who beat MK with someone else who's not MK-in the top 8 as well-that's just ridiculous.

Um, hello. We're only 5 months into Brawl. Melee's gamut of good players wasn't discovered for much longer than 5 months. Heck, Melee wasn't even all that competitive 5 months after its release. Basic AT's like wavedashing and L-cancelling weren't even discovered until several months after its release. Although I am not sure of exactly how many months after the release they were discovered, I'm pretty sure that someone on the boards could tell you, and I bet that this told number would be greater than 5 months. Even if it wasn't, then there's still the time it takes to totally master AT's to take into consideration, and then learning the characters themselves, getting enough people into competitive smash, and giving enough time to see everyone who would arrive on the competitive scene with success. To my knowledge, the part not involving AT's is easily more than 5 months by itself.

And, about that Street Fighter point...Brawl can be much more easily compared to its prequel, Melee, than Street Fighter.

Someone (or many someones) could arrive on the scene with a highly competitive Falco (to throw out one less-commonly-used example than DK and Snake that is valid) and beat the snot out of MK with proper spacing, a great SHL game, and good experience playing MK's with Falco...enough to the point where he knows MK's full potential. This doesn't sound like a whole lot to ask in a good, experienced Falco me. Heck, there are plenty of good Falcos that fit this bill out there right now.
Here are some vids of Falcos that won against MK's, where both the MK and the Falco were quite skilled, IMO (in fact, these are the vids posted on the official Falco Video Thread right here in the Smashboards):

~Sethlon (Falco) vs Stiltz (Metaknight) 1&2

~Sethlon (Falco) vs Stiltz (Metaknight) 3

~brdy (MK) vs Artifice (Falco) 1

~SK92 (Falco) vs. Lucien (Metaknight) 2

~SK92 (Falco) vs. DSF (Metaknight) 1

~SK92 (Falco) vs. DSF (Metaknight) 3

And this is just coming from ONE CHARACTER. One less-commonly-used example of a good character against MK. Only 5 months into the game. Also, videos like these are what improve, inspire, and breed MORE good Falco, DK, Snake, or whatever players...these videos of good players that you don't think are valid proof are actually a crucial part of what will help to spawn what you believe to be valid proof: more people beating MK with non-MK characters.

If you're still going on about how we "can't talk about what's in the future," then maybe you should look again earlier in this post and take your own words of advice to heart.


Next time you make claims, try not to make your post go against them. In several ways. It really doesn't look good for you. In fact, it makes you look slightly less intelligent than you claim to be.


In conclusion, I state that it is much too early to be rushing to ANY conclusions about banning MK from tournament play. He won't be banned. Sorry to break it to you, but you had it coming.

 

[Quez256]

Natch, when you said, "people wouldn't whine about MK if there wasn't anything to whine about" this really killed the post. If whining became the base for banning a character, I believe, in addition to MK, Snake, Falco, DDD, Diddy, G&W, Marth, Ike, & Sonic would also have been "banned", since each of them had players whining about them at some point, for whatever reason. My point is, the only difference between them & MK is that there really isn't any foolproof strategy/guidelines to beat MK, thus whining ensues, only showing that people usually don't want to deal with a moderately difficult/uphill fight.

Also, as was already stated, we are in month five since the release, quit jumping to conclusions so quickly.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I saw the official thread on tactical, and 99% of it was scrub talk, themed around "MK is too good" with no real justification.


The only good arguments that MK was bannable (a portion of the 1%) were talking about YEARS in advance, when we had a mature metagame, assuming MK was still doing what he currently does to viable character diversity.

Give it a good 5 years before we seriously talk about banning him, unless of course we discover that MK is actually Akuma...

 

[J0RDY]

Brawl VS Street Fighter:

Brawl:
-No health bars.
-Complex aerial game.
-Can recover if thrown off the ledge.
-Extension from above, complex ledge guarding aspect.
-No button sequences for standard attacks beyond a direction chosen and a button pressed.
-No ****ing health bars.

Someone can't take a joke <_<

Falco ultimate CP for MK anyone?
JOKE

 

[grandmaster192]

Falco is no where near a bad match up for MK.

 

[Zinc Elemental]

This whole banning stuff really just needs to stop. Yeah, he is pretty much top tier. Or at least he is

Spoiler

for now

. Snake has a good match up against MK, if he doesn't be dumb. And falco has a favorable match up too. And supposedly Yoshi, but I don't know about that one.

Some people even say Charizard counters him.

Yoshi is at a very slight disadvantage to MK. I'd say about 45/55.
Falco is also close to even.
Everyone seems to disagree on Snake's match-up. I say it's about 55/45 or 60/40 Snake, but I've heard even from a lot of people.

Please don't try to tell me Charizard is a MK counter.

Brawl VS Street Fighter:

Brawl:
-No health bars.
-Complex aerial game.
-Can recover if thrown off the ledge.
-Extension from above, complex ledge guarding aspect.
-No button sequences for standard attacks beyond a direction chosen and a button pressed.
-No ****ing health bars.

These games are far from comparable. If MK was in Street Fighter, he'd suck. He has low damaging attacks, a low "health bar". His ledge game, aerial game, and recovery game are GONE, etc. Also, MK can hardley gimp at all, due to the fact that he can't KO at "Low percents" anymore.

These are completly different games, comparing is nearly impossible.

I don't think he was comparing the two. As you may know, Street Fighter IV is not out except in Japan (I believe). He was making a joke that "Brawl's competitive scene sucks,, let's go play SFIV instead.

Every fighting game has a best character (I've yet to see a truly balanced one). Rarely is one ever banned. The only way MK will be banned is if in the future MK gets EVEN BETTER. Right now, he is not having enough of a metagame warping effect to warrant a ban. Yeah, enough to complain about, sure. Yeah, enough that MK should have been gimped a bit in testing. No, not enough to warrant something as extreme as a ban.

 

[R4ZE]

MK really isnt that rigged... he is only about as good as G&W. slightly better Dsmash is all.

people are just noobs and dont know who to fight against powerful moves. its just like marth in melee how noobs would win spamming fsmash. and it was funny.

 

[ADHD]

Falco is no where near a bad match up for MK.

The really good ones are.

So look at sheik in melee, her only bad matchups were maybe peach (50-50), fox and falco (60-40).

People complained about banning her, you know how bad that would have turned out? Still, at least there were things that allowed a bigger opportunity to beat her. Now you have to be incredibly intelligent, patient, lucky or main lucario, bowser, etc. However, metaknight will always stay top tier, sad but true. He will never sink down the final year of brawl like sheik did, and theres nothing to control him. He's always gonna be gay and theres nothing we can do about it but deal with it.

It doesn't really matter if reflex beat mew2king's mk, did you realize, reflex is a very good smasher? You have to be on the top level to beat good mks, thats why so many people complain--they're jsut average smashers and won't stand a chance.

This also leaves me to believe that sheik got the biggest buff of all, she got a mask, a puffball body, and a foot-long sword.

Discuss.

 

[Zinc Elemental]

The really good ones are.

So look at sheik in melee, her only bad matchups were maybe peach (50-50), fox and falco (60-40).

People complained about banning her, you know how bad that would have turned out? Still, at least there were things that allowed a bigger opportunity to beat her. Now you have to be incredibly intelligent, patient, lucky or main lucario, bowser, etc. However, metaknight will always stay top tier, sad but true. He will never sink down the final year of brawl like sheik did, and theres nothing to control him. He's always gonna be gay and theres nothing we can do about it but deal with it.

How do you know things won't change? Sheik was considered the best early in melee and we're only 5 months into brawl.

It doesn't really matter if reflex beat mew2king's mk, did you realize, reflex is a very good smasher? You have to be on the top level to beat good mks, thats why so many people complain--they're jsut average smashers and won't stand a chance.

I'd just like to point out that M2K is a lso a very good smasher. Thus you have to be on the top level to beat M2K's MK. You don't need be top level to beat an average MK.

 

[Plairnkk]

stop whining, just learn to fight 1 character. Back when I mained DDD, I liked fighting MKs, and I play the best MKs in the world. I've played Azen Forte InfernoOmni Plank DSF, and the only one that beat my DDD more than I beat their MK was Azen, everyone else my DDD won the majority in a matchup that that I'm SUPPOSEDLY countered in. I got bored of DDD cuz his best strategies are too repetitive, so I switched mains.

I like fighting MKs, I like using MK, no different than Marth in melee.

MK will not get banned, if he does get banned it's only going to be for specific tourneys, the tourney hosts make the rules. If they were to ban MK at a tourney, a lot less people would show, it would be their loss because of a smaller turnout. He's not that much better than the other characters at all, Falco Snake and MK are all around the same level, just like Sheik Marth Fox in melee.

i like this post a lot.

probably 25% because m2k is right and 75% cuz i get called one of the best mk's in the world LOL

 

[chic]

If they were to ban MK at a tourney, a lot less people would show

wouldn't the complete opposite happen? i'm sure theres tons of players who stay away from tournies because their chars don't stand a chance against MKs...

 

[Plairnkk]

we call those players "scrubs" and they arent a contributing part of the community anyway, so who cares?

 

[choknater]

natch is quite a diligent scrub for being so adamant about this

 

[adumbrodeus]

The really good ones are.

It's about an even match-up, I believe last concensus was a slight advantage for MK

So look at sheik in melee, her only bad matchups were maybe peach (50-50), fox and falco (60-40).

You forgot fox (60-40) and IC (60-40).

People complained about banning her, you know how bad that would have turned out? Still, at least there were things that allowed a bigger opportunity to beat her. Now you have to be incredibly intelligent, patient, lucky or main lucario, bowser, etc. However, metaknight will always stay top tier, sad but true. He will never sink down the final year of brawl like sheik did, and theres nothing to control him. He's always gonna be gay and theres nothing we can do about it but deal with it.

It doesn't really matter if reflex beat mew2king's mk, did you realize, reflex is a very good smasher? You have to be on the top level to beat good mks, thats why so many people complain--they're jsut average smashers and won't stand a chance.

This also leaves me to believe that sheik got the biggest buff of all, she got a mask, a puffball body, and a foot-long sword.

Discuss.

I think the chief difference here is it looks like MK on his own, significantly reduces the number of tournament viable characters for a couple of reasons.

None of Sheik's "****" match-ups wasn't also a **** match-up with some other high tier character (ex. Luigi vs. Marth was a 7, and Luigi vs. Sheik was an 8).


However the overall point is that, regardless of whether it's justified now, we don't really have the raw data available to prove it's justfied (a good match-up chart) nor is the metagame mature enough to know that MK will keep doing this.

 

[Plairnkk]

At the top level of players (MD/VA) metaknight rarely even wins tournaments.

 

[Natch]

Natch, when you said, "people wouldn't whine about MK if there wasn't anything to whine about" this really killed the post. If whining became the base for banning a character, I believe, in addition to MK, Snake, Falco, DDD, Diddy, G&W, Marth, Ike, & Sonic would also have been "banned", since each of them had players whining about them at some point, for whatever reason. My point is, the only difference between them & MK is that there really isn't any foolproof strategy/guidelines to beat MK, thus whining ensues, only showing that people usually don't want to deal with a moderately difficult/uphill fight.

Also, as was already stated, we are in month five since the release, quit jumping to conclusions so quickly.

Let me clarify.

What are people whining ABOUT?

His banning. No other character has been whined about as much for being banned as MK. Also, you said we must use skill to beat him, essentially. Thus, your argument is moot and pointless, since the skill argument applies to everyone. In fact, you've actually helped my points, by telling me there aren't any foolproof ways to beat MK.

Want to beat Snake? Knock him off the edge and gimp his recovery. That's a near-foolproof way to beat Snake. MK has none of those, and that's why people complain.

Also, I'm not jumping to conclusions. Two things can happen.

1. MK IS BANNED
2. MK IS NOT BANNED

Am I wrong? Is there some sort of state between Ban and Unbanned I was unaware of? All I stated was what could happen, further dividing that up by the criterion for it's happening, and the result of it's occurance. Nothing further.

Seems a bit contradictory/hypocritical to me, eh?

I came with this topic telling people the things that could happen. No points, no arguments, no attacks, no debate. People attacked me. I decided to debate in a return-fire post, setting up criterion for the method and structure of debate. The "present" was to discount any arguments about "MK COULD end up sucking" or "Something COULD be found". I wanted people to give cold, hard, facts and logical arguments based upon them, not speculation and fantasy,

Um, hello. We're only 5 months into Brawl. Melee's gamut of good players wasn't discovered for much longer than 5 months. Heck, Melee wasn't even all that competitive 5 months after its release. Basic AT's like wavedashing and L-cancelling weren't even discovered until several months after its release. Although I am not sure of exactly how many months after the release they were discovered, I'm pretty sure that someone on the boards could tell you, and I bet that this told number would be greater than 5 months. Even if it wasn't, then there's still the time it takes to totally master AT's to take into consideration, and then learning the characters themselves, getting enough people into competitive smash, and giving enough time to see everyone who would arrive on the competitive scene with success. To my knowledge, the part not involving AT's is easily more than 5 months by itself.

We can argue about how things are right now. I was the only person to provide a requirement to prove something. Not you. If you have your own "bar" to determine if it's true or not.

Someone (or many someones) could arrive on the scene with a highly competitive Falco (to throw out one less-commonly-used example than DK and Snake that is valid) and beat the snot out of MK with proper spacing, a great SHL game, and good experience playing MK's with Falco...enough to the point where he knows MK's full potential.

Mere speculation. A tech could be found for Gdorf that disables MK's recovery. This isn't proven, so it's not fact, so it can't be argued upon.

This doesn't sound like a whole lot to ask in a good, experienced Falco me. Heck there are plenty of good Falcos that fit this bill out there right now.

Ignoring the fact that Falco has a beak, not a bill, I'll be waiting to see these Falcos.

Here are some vids of Falcos that won against MK's, where both the MK and the Falco were quite skilled, IMO (in fact, these are the vids posted on the official Falco Video Thread right here in the Smashboards):

~Sethlon (Falco) vs Stiltz (Metaknight) 1&2

~Sethlon (Falco) vs Stiltz (Metaknight) 3

~brdy (MK) vs Artifice (Falco) 1

~SK92 (Falco) vs. Lucien (Metaknight) 2

~SK92 (Falco) vs. DSF (Metaknight) 1

~SK92 (Falco) vs. DSF (Metaknight) 3

So "plenty of Falcos" translates to "3 Falcos beating 4 MK's on 3 different days over 7 matches"

Plenty, you said? Disregarding the fact that plenty is relative and can be debated over the exact amount, this is qualified as "a few". Which is not "plenty". And not only did you not fit my criterion to prove your point, you didn't even provide proof of your OWN claim. Also, you named players, specific matches, and a specific character who two people have already said isn't a bad matchup for MK, and are currently debating that point with others. BTW, when I said 25 players, I meant search tournies, and find me 25 repeating names of the same character. This character must've been higher than an MK in the top 8.

That's what I mean. If you aren't willing to do this, then shut up. You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you. You did not provide proof in your initial post, so now I get to decide what you need to do to prove your points. Our intial arguments have already been presented, and you failed to present criterion on what you must provide to prove your point. I did. Thus, you must accept mine, as you have no provided anything. If there is no criterion for proving one's point, the debate is pointless and will never end.

THAT'S how debating works when people are doing it for real. You want to whine about that? Leave.

And this is just coming from ONE CHARACTER. One less-commonly-used example of a good character against MK. Only 5 months into the game. Also, videos like these are what improve, inspire, and breed MORE good Falco, DK, Snake, or whatever players...these videos of good players that you don't think are valid proof are actually a crucial part of what will help to spawn what you believe to be valid proof: more people beating MK with non-MK characters.

It MAY help INSPIRE people to beat MK? It MAY lead to more proof that MAY OR MAY NOT even exist in the future? BREED more players? Posh. Speculation and fantasy. Give me now proof.

If you're still going on about how we "can't talk about what's in the future," then maybe you should look again earlier in this post and take your own words of advice to heart.

Ex post facto. After the fact. I was stating what COULD'VE happened, in no relation whatsoever to saying that MK was, in, can be, or will be broken. After that, I stated that if you want to argue with the above, respond with things in the present.

Next time you make claims, try not to make your post go against them. In several ways. It really doesn't look good for you. In fact, it makes you look slightly less intelligent than you claim to be.

In conclusion, I state that it is much too early to be rushing to ANY conclusions about banning MK from tournament play. He won't be banned. Sorry to break it to you, but you had it coming.

Who are you to say what we can and cannot argue about? Who are you to say that something isn't mature enough to argue about? Who are you to say what will or will not happen? Who are you to say that you've won the argument after only one set of IMCOMPLETE counter points?

You still have not told about any horrible matchups MK has, BTW.

Every fighting game has a best character (I've yet to see a truly balanced one). Rarely is one ever banned. The only way MK will be banned is if in the future MK gets EVEN BETTER. Right now, he is not having enough of a metagame warping effect to warrant a ban. Yeah, enough to complain about, sure. Yeah, enough that MK should have been gimped a bit in testing. No, not enough to warrant something as extreme as a ban.

Never MK will be banned. He could be banned, he could not be banned. I just divided that up by possible fulfillable criterion for each to occur, and effects of those respective criterion and their supposed fullfillment.

 

[TheChaos]

As a Meta Knight main, I feel somewhat obligated to post my opinion on this. I SUCK with him. A lot of his strategies revolve around short hops, which I have somehow lost the ability to pull off (even with X and Y on my GCN controller). All that aside, I win most (read: ~70%) of my matches. He's fast, easy to start using, has 5 jumps, great recovery, little lag, can glide... you get it.
Right now, MK is THE character to play as. I have no clue what will become of him as we explore and exploit more of the game. In all honesty, you just need to think harder. When you thought Snake was the best character, you scrambled to find a way to one-up him. Well, now you have. You just need to keep experimenting with characters, and I'm absolutely positive you'll find a way or ways to give him a bad matchup or worse.

So, do I think he SHOULD be banned? No. Do I think he WILL be banned? No. He's not invincible, I'm telling you right now. [Falco may not be able to laserlock him easily, but you forget that Falco also has a stunning reflector he tosses in front of himself (something that can mess up a MK trying to grab or tilt), a powerful dair (heck, he has good aerials), and a VERY nice set of grabs.]

 

[Natch]

As a Meta Knight main, I feel somewhat obligated to post my opinion on this. I SUCK with him. A lot of his strategies revolve around short hops, which I have somehow lost the ability to pull off (even with X and Y on my GCN controller). All that aside, I win most (read: ~70%) of my matches. He's fast, easy to start using, has 5 jumps, great recovery, little lag, can glide... you get it.
Right now, MK is THE character to play as. I have no clue what will become of him as we explore and exploit more of the game. In all honesty, you just need to think harder. When you thought Snake was the best character, you scrambled to find a way to one-up him. Well, now you have. You just need to keep experimenting with characters, and I'm absolutely positive you'll find a way or ways to give him a bad matchup or worse.

So, do I think he SHOULD be banned? No. Do I think he WILL be banned? No. He's not invincible, I'm telling you right now. [Falco may not be able to laserlock him easily, but you forget that Falco also has a stunning reflector he tosses in front of himself (something that can mess up a MK trying to grab or tilt), a powerful dair (heck, he has good aerials), and a VERY nice set of grabs.]

Snake is easy as **** to gimp once he's off stage. MK isn't. Biiiig difference. Besides that, I don't wanna argue with you at all, you came off as nice and helpful. You're a chill guy, more than I can say for others who've posted.

 

[xiferp]

False Dilemma.

Things could go as they're going now. People whine on the boards, but good players just keep playing and figuring out ways to beat each character with their main/secondaries.

 

[Koopa64]

False Dilemma.

Things could go as they're going now. People whine on the boards, but good players just keep playing and figuring out ways to beat each character with their main/secondaries.

QFT

I 1st main MK as well. And I'm telling ya, he's going to stay my main, no matter how many ppl b**** about him. He's NOT unbeatable. Instead of whining about him being "broken" or trying to ban him, how about you actually take the time to train yourself and your mind to actually withstand and counter his attacks, cuz it's not gonna work. (Not talking to the ppl who actually have sense on this board).

He's like the Fox of Brawl. Accept it, and work harder to beat him. And good players should know that.

 

[Zinc Elemental]

QFT

I 1st main MK as well. And I'm telling ya, he's going to stay my main, no matter how many ppl b**** about him. He's NOT unbeatable. Instead of whining about him being "broken" or trying to ban him, how about you actually take the time to train yourself and your mind to actually withstand and counter his attacks, cuz it's not gonna work. (Not talking to the ppl who actually have sense on this board).

He's like the Fox of Brawl. Accept it, and work harder to beat him. And good players should know that.

I agree. I think the good players do know this, though. How many pros do you see whining about how MK needs to be banned?

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Individuality! FTW!

 

[adumbrodeus]

He's like the Fox of Brawl. Accept it, and work harder to beat him. And good players should know that.

Far far closer to the Sheik.

Only without wavedashing to make somebody else better.

 

[Gindler]

Yeah, if they banned MK there won't be much for me to prove anymore...he's good but I've beaten a few good ones and I'm far from top player status or whatever. Just capitalize off his mistakes, sure alot of his moves have no lag or w/e but some do and that's when you pwn him. nuff said.

 

[Barge]

If they banned Mk people would start complaining about snake

 

[Melomaniacal]

Yes... but a crappy player using Metaknight will still lose to a good player using some other character.

...okay, maybe the opponent has to be a little more significantly better than the Metaknight than in other match ups, but the point remains. We don't live in a world where every player (specifically the ones who pick up Metaknight) are at the complete meta-game level of play. There will always be crappy players, and for every crappy player, there will be a good one to beat him, and personally I think there's a higher chance of crappy players using Metaknight than any other character.

It's not like Metaknight is some kind of magic-god-character, where everyone who chooses him gets insta-skills, and knowledge of all his match ups and techniques.


Sure, Metaknight is a great character. Probably even the best. The point is that he's not so good that everyone insta-wins with him. Until it gets to the point where tournaments are reduced to MK vs. MK, (which I don't see happening), it's not a serious problem. If that does start happening, THEN we should start thinking about a ban. But like I said, I doubt that would happen.
I'm sure there are plenty of people like myself who refuse to use Metaknight.

 

[Quez256]

If they banned Mk people would start complaining about snake

then Falco, then G&W, then Marth, DDD, etc.

 

[adumbrodeus]

No, Marth is first.

But it's doubtful he will be complained about I mean he hard counter.... *hears chirping noises*

No bad match-ups without MK, tons of soft counters, but no hard counters that aren't hard countered by half the cast. However his advantages are mimicked by MK pretty much, except MK does it better.

For the rest of the sacred 7, MK deals with their counters, making them higher then they should be, this was especially shown by Snake's status when MK mains didn't know how to deal with him, MK cleared the field for him to be top tier.


Personally, I would prefer the metagame is a char that hard countered just about nobody, but soft-countered most of the cast was top tier, because the game would be far more balanced, but hey, MK is here, not much that can be done.

 

[Rkey]

A amazing glitch could take place and be used effectively... and it could apply to everyone exept metaknight....making him therefor bottom tier....

Yeah, like wavebouncing. Noone cares yet, but yeah.

 

[Zinc Elemental]

Yeah, like wavebouncing. Noone cares yet, but yeah.

Wavebouncing is taking MK off the top? Excuse me??