Just 'nother Mafia game | Game over, town wins

[Orboknown]

Not yet.
Also j i threw koops in there because nothing hes done has stuck out. Why do you think he should be up there in reads

 

[#HBC | J]

Not yet.
Also j i threw koops in there because nothing hes done has stuck out. Why do you think he should be up there in reads

I'm assuming you mean "up there" in terms to why he is higher then some? Well, Maven/Kaladin have been scummy to me and you are enigma still, but I feel tone-wise much more comfortable with Koopy. Soup/Myself are town and Ditzy seems the most town out of the rest of the bunch.

That means Koopy is where is he at because it makes sense with how my reads are. I really don't get the question when discussing it in detail, but Koopy just doesn't fit into my PoE currently unless he is scum with you.

 

[Maven89]

I'm not defending Kaladin at all? I'm playing devil's advocate if anything, but at the same time I said I am 100% okay with his lynch. How is that defending him?

[QUOTE="#HBC | J, post: 20483201, member: 166290]Now let's move onto the more important reads where I feel the lynch is leaning towards which is one of Maven and Kaladin. Let me talk about Kaladin first because there is a common trend here that is beginning to worry me a bit. Kaladin to me has been suspicious for a while, however, he is literally EVERYONE's #1 scum-read at the current time. Not one person has come to the assistance of Kaladin and everyone believes him to be scummy. This almost makes me want to avoid it because it looks like a ML on a player that has the tendency to be lynched for his playstyle above anything else which I, myself, have done as scum to secure an easy ML when needed to. No one has explicitly stated why Kaladin is scummy though they have just been like "Oh yeah, and obvi scummy Kaladin over there" and that's what I noticed throughout my re-read. Everyone seems to be harping on the point that he isn't explaining his posts which is fair enough, but how is that scummy considering a lot of players are being vague? If you are to call Kaladin scummy on that, you have to call Orbo/Koopy on that as well.[/quote]

Defense



[QUOTE="#HBC | J, post: 20483201, member: 166290]That's just one side of the coin regarding Kaladin. During the entire Soup push, I would say Kaladin had the worst vote of the masses and it seemed really opportunistic scummy to be jumping on the wagon and putting at soup at L-1 for very little reason. Ever since then, he has gone off the radar in terms of posts. Without a re-read, I would actually just insta-lynch this slot based on his vote-post alone after Soup's claim. I would be remiss to do as such because now I am 50/50 on the slot. I would not cry if he were to be lynched because of these scenarios:

Kaladin lynch, flips town:
1.) I would probably look into Orbo/Koopy as a valid team.
2.) Maven leans less as scum, but still a possibility. (I just don't think so)

Kaladin lynch, flips mafia:
1.) I would probably gung-ho go after Maven as his partner.
2.) My Koopy/Orbo theory is a wash at this point. Orbo would be the placeholder slot if Maven did not flip scum.

The thing about Kaladin is that the only one that makes valid sense as his partner would be Maven, however, let's move onto Maven since this is a good segway point..[/quote]

Here you say I'm scum with him, no longer defending him

[QUOTE="#HBC | J, post: 20483201, member: 166290]That's actually one of the BIGGEST things I have that makes it look like his Kaladin push is janky because he is literally just looking at the surface of his "points" and saying "lol nope, u scum bro" and moving on with that like he has already pegged him. Almost like he did with Soup where he continued to harp on Soup for calling him scum and that is something that I know Maven does as scum is that he OMGUS' more often then not when he does when he is town. (My experience being Revival where we sat on each other all game haha) I honestly, feel that his SoupScum push was very knee-jerk and just trying to call his post fake and tried to get me to admit to it being as such with Ditzy and I was looking at it more from an unbiased PoV. I disliked his almost trying to arm-twist me into seeing Soup as clear scum when he wasn't looking as much better for his point of attack on Soup.[/quote]

Defending him by saying I'm attempting a mislynch, unless you're suggesting I'm trying to bus my partner

Maven lines up with my plausible theory of scum-teams and the more I type and discuss his slot the more I am becoming sold on him being scum and I am going to be putting my vote on him. If the rest of town feel like lynching Kaladin, that also has my blessing considering it helps my cause either way and I can see the angle of KaladinScum. I just feel more passionate about a Maven-lynch currently.

Vote: Maven89

[QUOTE="#HBC | J, post: 20483201, member: 166290]Plus I am going to side with Soup because I do agree with his opinion that Maven leans more scummy then Kaladin where Kaladin has half of his actions being able to be thrown over to that pile of Silly vs. Scummy. But those are my thoughts at the time and what I feel confident in expressing.[/QUOTE]

Again defending him

You can end it by saying "I still think Kaladin is scum" but when your entire post is trying to vote me over him because the pushes on him are "bad" and at the same time attack me for my push on Kaladin it really doesn't look at all like you really think he's scum. Unless you're really suggesting I'm busing him, which is not something I figured you'd try to say since there's no reason to even attempt a bus so early, but if that's the case then please clarify in your posts that you don't think I'm mislynching, because it really looks like you're claiming both depending on the need of the immediate point.

 

[#HBC | J]

Haha not to be that way, but could you re-format the post because that would be nightmarish to respond to.

 

[#HBC | J]

And you just voted yourself so you might wanna fix that haha.

 

[#HBC | J]

Also could you cite for us your current theology and definition of the word "defense" because I feel that would help in understanding especially since you are trying to use that word very liberally in what you are saying I am doing to Kaladin.

 

[Maven89]

Now let's move onto the more important reads where I feel the lynch is leaning towards which is one of Maven and Kaladin. Let me talk about Kaladin first because there is a common trend here that is beginning to worry me a bit. Kaladin to me has been suspicious for a while, however, he is literally EVERYONE's #1 scum-read at the current time. Not one person has come to the assistance of Kaladin and everyone believes him to be scummy. This almost makes me want to avoid it because it looks like a ML on a player that has the tendency to be lynched for his playstyle above anything else which I, myself, have done as scum to secure an easy ML when needed to. No one has explicitly stated why Kaladin is scummy though they have just been like "Oh yeah, and obvi scummy Kaladin over there" and that's what I noticed throughout my re-read. Everyone seems to be harping on the point that he isn't explaining his posts which is fair enough, but how is that scummy considering a lot of players are being vague? If you are to call Kaladin scummy on that, you have to call Orbo/Koopy on that as well.

Defense

That's just one side of the coin regarding Kaladin. During the entire Soup push, I would say Kaladin had the worst vote of the masses and it seemed really opportunistic scummy to be jumping on the wagon and putting at soup at L-1 for very little reason. Ever since then, he has gone off the radar in terms of posts. Without a re-read, I would actually just insta-lynch this slot based on his vote-post alone after Soup's claim. I would be remiss to do as such because now I am 50/50 on the slot. I would not cry if he were to be lynched because of these scenarios:

Kaladin lynch, flips town:
1.) I would probably look into Orbo/Koopy as a valid team.
2.) Maven leans less as scum, but still a possibility. (I just don't think so)

Kaladin lynch, flips mafia:
1.) I would probably gung-ho go after Maven as his partner.
2.) My Koopy/Orbo theory is a wash at this point. Orbo would be the placeholder slot if Maven did not flip scum.

The thing about Kaladin is that the only one that makes valid sense as his partner would be Maven, however, let's move onto Maven since this is a good segway point..

Here you say I'm scum with him, no longer defending him

That's actually one of the BIGGEST things I have that makes it look like his Kaladin push is janky because he is literally just looking at the surface of his "points" and saying "lol nope, u scum bro" and moving on with that like he has already pegged him. Almost like he did with Soup where he continued to harp on Soup for calling him scum and that is something that I know Maven does as scum is that he OMGUS' more often then not when he does when he is town. (My experience being Revival where we sat on each other all game haha) I honestly, feel that his SoupScum push was very knee-jerk and just trying to call his post fake and tried to get me to admit to it being as such with Ditzy and I was looking at it more from an unbiased PoV. I disliked his almost trying to arm-twist me into seeing Soup as clear scum when he wasn't looking as much better for his point of attack on Soup.

Defending him by saying I'm attempting a mislynch, unless you're suggesting I'm trying to bus my partner

Plus I am going to side with Soup because I do agree with his opinion that Maven leans more scummy then Kaladin where Kaladin has half of his actions being able to be thrown over to that pile of Silly vs. Scummy. But those are my thoughts at the time and what I feel confident in expressing.

Again defending him

You can end it by saying "I still think Kaladin is scum" but when your entire post is trying to vote me over him because the pushes on him are "bad" and at the same time attack me for my push on Kaladin it really doesn't look at all like you really think he's scum. Unless you're really suggesting I'm busing him, which is not something I figured you'd try to say since there's no reason to even attempt a bus so early, but if that's the case then please clarify in your posts that you don't think I'm mislynching, because it really looks like you're claiming both depending on the need of the immediate point.

 

[Maven89]

That's just the previous post reformated, dunno actually why it wasn't working

 

[Maven89]

Also could you cite for us your current theology and definition of the word "defense" because I feel that would help in understanding especially since you are trying to use that word very liberally in what you are saying I am doing to Kaladin.

"Guys I agree Kaladin is scummy, but isn't Maven even more scummy? Shouldn't we vote him instead? Also all the pushes on Kaladin are terrible and scum lies within it"

Sounds inconsistent and an attempt to both claim Kaladin is scummy while constructing a post designed to stop him from being lynched in favor of me. Key point of this is where you said him being town makes me not-scum, so I'll ask, does that work both ways? Does me being town make it less likely Kaladin is scum? You said Kaladin only really made sense with me as his partner, which implies to me that you do think that, and you do think me being town makes Kaladin less likely to be scum

Therefore, lynching me before Kaladin helps clear Kaladin

 

[Orboknown]

Might wanna unvote there maven

 

[Maven89]

Unvote

I really didn't think Gheb would count it

 

[Kaladin]

Here, I have an interesting angle to play this at which should settle a bit of Maven's push on me:

Kaladin, do you feel I am defending you/have been in my posts as of late?

Hm. I mean, you seem to think I'm scum. I wouldn't call that defending. However, you aren't pushing for my lynch.

Purposely not addressing anything else that's been said. I want to watch how Maven/J play this.

 

[Maven89]

is that a lean yes or a lean no?

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

There's a difference between contradiction and writing your thoughts.
If you look at J's long post, he's thinking as he's writing it, analysing it as he goes along. When he's stating things different from his opinion, he's going over all of the possibilities in his head, not contradicting himself. At the end, he even says something along the lines of "the more I type the more I'm sure of Maven being scum."

Hm. I mean, you seem to think I'm scum. I wouldn't call that defending. However, you aren't pushing for my lynch.

Purposely not addressing anything else that's been said. I want to watch how Maven/J play this.

Noooo. I know you're busy, but you're also the most suspicious right now. I wanna hear you have to say.

 

[Kaladin]

Noooo. I know you're busy, but you're also the most suspicious right now. I wanna hear you have to say.

It's not that I'm busy, it's that I have theory, and I don't want to influence what they do.

Feel free to ask me questions unrelated to that situation, though.

 

[Kaladin]

Tourney hype spillover: WHAT AN UPSET! ERMAGERD!

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

TheKingofKoopas Who do you think is the scummieset out of those who voted Soup?

Kaladin, for the same reasons everyone else has. That odd, L-1 inducing, not well thought out vote.

It's not that I'm busy, it's that I have theory, and I don't want to influence what they do.

Oh. Oopsies

Feel free to ask me questions unrelated to that situation, though.

With the fact that I'm going to be rereading the game over tomorrow, now that a lot of light has been shed on various mysteries, I wanna know what your thoughts and reads are on me, Orbo, Dietz, and J.

 

[Jdietz43]

Mild prod-dodge. Was at Kings of the North 4 today. Will try and read what I've missed if not tonight then tomorrow in between spectating.

 

[Kaladin]

Koopa, expect a large analysis/read post from myself once I'm sadisfied with J/Maven. That'll include those.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

A deadline has been set on the 25th [Wed], 10pm GMT

 

[Maven89]

Someone respond please

 

[Kaladin]

mmmm, a family member was just hospitalized. She should be alright, but I'm going to put the game on hold until things around here calm down.

 

[Orboknown]

Hi?
Dgames usually does on weekends anyways.

 

[Jdietz43]

Koopy was a town-lean earlier out of the two, but if I am to like Ditzy there is a bit of me that realizes that Koopy was just agreeing with my logical posts that anyone could honestly agree to. Plus I do get a little rose-colored glasses when someone begins town-reading me so early haha. Orbo is in a similar boat, but I don't get his Koopy insistence to be in the same pile of Maven/Kaladin. It seems forced and like "Oh yeah, don't forget Koopy" which is why I am starting to see that as a light distancing technique ( Jdietz43 could I get your opinion on this train of thought?).

I could see it as "not disproven", but that's all. I don't feel comfortable actively pairing people for simply not talking to each other directly at this stage of the game. Better to focus on if one of them is individually scummy beforehand.

Kaladin lynch, flips town:
1.) I would probably look into Orbo/Koopy as a valid team.
2.) Maven leans less as scum, but still a possibility. (I just don't think so)

Kaladin lynch, flips mafia:
1.) I would probably gung-ho go after Maven as his partner.
2.) My Koopy/Orbo theory is a wash at this point. Orbo would be the placeholder slot if Maven did not flip scum.

The thing about Kaladin is that the only one that makes valid sense as his partner would be Maven, however, let's move onto Maven since this is a good segway point.

What's your rationale for Maven/Kaladin scumteam as most likely?
I don't see a scenario where Kaladin is overly motivated to vote for his partner at a point where he (claims to have accidentally) put Maven to L-1 (on page 4). Even if it was claimed intended for L-2, it's rare for non HBC players to put early spotlight on their own partners.

 

[Jdietz43]

Also could you cite for us your current theology and definition of the word "defense" because I feel that would help in understanding especially since you are trying to use that word very liberally in what you are saying I am doing to Kaladin.

I'm more concerned why you said "us" instead of "me" or "town". Who was that plural intended for?

Joking, but not joking.

 

[Jdietz43]

It's not that I'm busy, it's that I have theory, and I don't want to influence what they do.

Feel free to ask me questions unrelated to that situation, though.

I have my own theory that Day 1 ends with your lynch in 100% of the future timelines where you don't post something, so you should probably elaborate regardless. We have a deadline now.

 

[Kaladin]

ALLLRIGHTY. This is just me writing as I think and reread from page 6. I just want to show my thought and scum hunting process. Everything I say is just something I'm considering, not necessarily a hard claim.

You don't see anything wrong. I get that. That's why I've been talking about what I see wrong. I think I've told two people now but instead of saying 'no you're wrong' you could at least talk about what I've put up about Maven and go from there. This is not helping me if you continue to pester me without actually looking at what I'm saying. It's quite frustrating actually.

Is everyone in a agreement that Soup's push was bad but, in the absence of a cc, he's jailer? Cuz that's where I'm at right now.

Uh...what do you think I've been doing this whole phase? Trying to determine who is scum and lynch them. ..What do you think I've been doing? I've acknowledged everything said to me and responded to it appropriately.

No. It's not that I can't hear him, it's that he's wrong, and I told him why I think that. I told him why his points were bad therefore I was not responding to them.

This is pretty sad that I had to claim.

Except this... This upsets me. Soup was very handwavey instead of refutey in response to Maven/Dietz. Soup seems EXCEEDINGLY scummy, but, again, no cc.

Dietz [1] - Orbo

Orboknown What was the nature of this vote?

Skimmed dietz vs soup
Dietz town if soup scum but not vice versa
Kaladin what side you leaning on?

I actually dislike this. Why can't you see it as a bus attempt? Seems too early to rule out, but I digress.

That leaves Kaladin/Orboknown/J/and Koopa,

Yeah... TheKingofKoopas Have you, like, done anything even marginally significant this game? Koopa seems really coast-y to me.

The other side of this coin would be Orbo/Dietz, which I believe, again, is not partners. I haven't really been able to get much of a beat on Orbo other then he's being really vague so I'm giving him more of a chance to open up; I won't give him a free pass if he keeps playing like the way he is. Dietz is an odd case fo rme because I came into his pressure as 'okay, Dietz just has a really awful lead. I don't think he'd try and push me this hard as scum, and I was initially readaing CHP as town even if it was a bit shallow.' I've given that thought pause for now. Do you think Dietz would make the push he did as scum?

Dietz push was essentially "hey, look Soup's being stupid! Bad points! Vote Soup!", yes? I dunno about Dietz' meta, but it seems like a reasonable push to make, scum or town.

Maven for now. Whom do you see is more likely?

Please, explain.

The reason I disliked Ditzy earlier is somewhat changing because I am feeling the intent behind his push on Soup to be a bit more towny then I was originally seeing and mainly it was due to his posts after Soup's claim. I see genuine attempt to find scum and I am actually glad Soup claimed and saved Ditzy in terms of my reads because I would be at fault if I did not admit that if Soup was lynched and did flip town, I would be hard pressed to push Ditzy over his almost over-zealous push onto Soup which seemed like scum jowls locked onto a victim at the beginning which I remember is something that helps me read Ditzy's intent (which usually is screwed over by Orbo's aloofness).

Can you quantify what lets you read his intent? I'd be inclined to agree, but at the same time, I'd like to see you concretely justify your claim.

Kaladin has done a lot of just "derping"

;_;

Going to point out that right here, you're pointing to me and Kaladin both being scum partners when your entire first part of your post was suggesting the Kaladin push was scum trying to get a mislynch, but halfway through the post you swap it to me and Kaladin being scum partners. This is also not consistent. You can't claim my pushes on Kaladin were a "mislynch attempt" while still pushing Kaladin as being my scum partner. That's not even trying.

While it may be contrary to my best interests, I must admit that this is accurate. Jscum? lel

Soup painted himself in a negative light. His push on me was so bad he almost got mislynched on the spot. That's no one's fault but his, to put it on me is garbage. Btw, it was Dietz who tried to get everyone to lynch Soup on the spot, not me, even though we had the exact same points. This is important because it shows how forced your attempt to pigeon hole me as scum is. You have to claim my Soup push was me attempting to force through a mislynch, but while I was voting him, Dietz was sitting over there going "everyone vote him now" and even tagging people to come do so. But of course, J has to ignore this because Dietz would fit the narrative better, but he can't see a Dietz mislynch.

This, however, is not. IIRC, Dietz and yourself were both pushing souplynch.

---------------------------

This game is weird.

 

[Orboknown]

That was thenleftovers of an rvs vote

 

[#HBC | J]

Hey sorry I've been AWOL for a bit. Have a big production coming up and auditions are this week (and I'm Assistant Directing one that is humongous), but I will have time to respond to things tomorrow during the day so I'll get to you Maven89 and other things.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

TheKingofKoopas receives a prod for inactivity.

Maven [2] - soup, J

Not voting: Maven, KingofKoopas, Orbo, Dietz, Kaladin
Takes 4/7 to lynch

 

[Orboknown]

Vote:kaladin

 

[#HBC | J]

I actually thought Kaladin had a majority of the votes. That vote-count is pretty strange for me.

 

[#HBC | J]

~ Gheb ~ : How did Koopa acquire a prod, but not Soup?

 

[Maven89]

I actually thought Kaladin had a majority of the votes. That vote-count is pretty strange for me.

I thought you said me not "reading carefully" was mafia aligned?

You going to stand by anything you said?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Because I actually forgot he's in the game. He receives a prod as well.

 

[#HBC | J]

I thought you said me not "reading carefully" was mafia aligned?

You going to stand by anything you said?

Woooooooooooooow

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

Reading over the entire argument involving soup and others, here's what I got:

Everyone seems to be on their own throughout that argument, especially Kaladin because his reads and posts were all over the place. I don't see a Maven/Kaladin scum team, I only see them as being scummy separately.
Dietz and Maven were both on the same side, but Dietz was clearly trying to pressure Soup a lot more than Maven. Although, if we look after the argument, we can see that they're commonly on the same sides as each other. Throughout most of the game. They never oppose or question each other, they simply refer to each other at times when they're trying to get their points across. Obviously, this should only be questioned if Kaladin is town.

I'll post a more later.

 

[Jdietz43]

#HBC | J

Mostly looking for a response on this:

What's your rationale for Maven/Kaladin scumteam as most likely?
I don't see a scenario where Kaladin is overly motivated to vote for his partner at a point where he (claims to have accidentally) put Maven to L-1 (on page 4). Even if it was claimed intended for L-2, it's rare for non HBC players to put early spotlight on their own partners.

 

[Jdietz43]

ALLLRIGHTY. This is just me writing as I think and reread from page 6. I just want to show my thought and scum hunting process. Everything I say is just something I'm considering, not necessarily a hard claim.



Is everyone in a agreement that Soup's push was bad but, in the absence of a cc, he's jailer? Cuz that's where I'm at right now.



Except this... This upsets me. Soup was very handwavey instead of refutey in response to Maven/Dietz. Soup seems EXCEEDINGLY scummy, but, again, no cc.



Orboknown What was the nature of this vote?



I actually dislike this. Why can't you see it as a bus attempt? Seems too early to rule out, but I digress.



Yeah... TheKingofKoopas Have you, like, done anything even marginally significant this game? Koopa seems really coast-y to me.


Dietz push was essentially "hey, look Soup's being stupid! Bad points! Vote Soup!", yes? I dunno about Dietz' meta, but it seems like a reasonable push to make, scum or town.



Please, explain.



Can you quantify what lets you read his intent? I'd be inclined to agree, but at the same time, I'd like to see you concretely justify your claim.



;_;



While it may be contrary to my best interests, I must admit that this is accurate. Jscum? lel



This, however, is not. IIRC, Dietz and yourself were both pushing souplynch.

---------------------------

This game is weird.

And the theory you've been contemplating is?

(We don't have time to wait for it to play out anymore, I'd much rather have a read on you for coming up with whatever you came up with than the actual outcome of it)

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Still feeling set on Maven, and since I'm not really liable to produce that much content I can sort of just be stubborn like that. Sorry, sometimes I feel especially stubborn and this is one of those times, and J's mindset seems to follow with mine at the moment. There's nothing I particularly want to talk about or discuss because I'm gonna be dead if I don't make the right call toNight, so I'm weighing my options silently.