Social Hideout of the Phantom Thieves - Joker Social

[TheYungLink]

Do you like Joker? For who he is and not who he's created by? Even if you don't like someone, is there harm in supporting the good work they do? It doesn't have to mean you implicitly support the bad parts. Demonizing an entire person's work just because he or she sometimes expresses viewpoints you find offensive is just plain shortsighted, unrealistically black & white practice that doesn't help anyone.

He doesn't get paid to say controversial things in his work. He gets paid for making good, fun games that people enjoy playing. Boycotting them out of a selfish, petty desire to see him ruined is unlikely to make him change his mind (if anything he may only get worse) and will probably end up taking a bunch of innocent people down with him through layoffs.

Speaking out against his practices, on the other hand, gets him and Atlus bad press that can't be ignored no matter how well the games sell. And eventually he'll be given the chance to either clean up his act or be forced to step down. All this without necessarily harming Atlus as a company or all the good people that work there.

WHOA there is a LOT to unpack here.

First, there is nothing "petty" or "selfish" about not wanting to buy Joker if they don't want to. That's a real mean thing to say about JD. It's their decision.

Second, there technically IS harm in supporting a bad person's good work. I'm not judging anyone who buys the games Hashino has worked on, but to say Hashino doesn't get enabled by the profits of his very successful games is as short-sighted as you accuse JD of being. The Persona and Catherine games got bad press BEFORE Catherine Full Body, yet it never stopped Hashino from making his decision with Erica and Rin in FB.

You say that he doesn't get paid for making controversial things in his work, but technically he does, because it's his work, which is what we and Atlus pay him to do.

I agree that there are good people working at Atlus, but Hashino is not one of them. This isn't like with Coco, the beautiful Pixar movie that came out shortly after John Lasseter stepped down amongst tons of believable sexual abuse allegations. People were won over by Pixar employees because even though Lasseter helped make it, he wouldn't be further supported by audiences if people saw the movie. Hashino, meanwhile, still has a job, so boycotting the game is a 100% valid way of approaching the situation. If people do it enough, then Atlus will either force Hashino to keep his bigoted sh*t out of his work, or fire him. They won't touch their other employees.

Edit: I'm sorry, I lost sight of my point. I should have mentioned that it's okay to buy Joker in relation to the controversy because it's not as big a deal as Catherine Full Body. We don't know all the details of who gets paid in relation to the Joker DLC. So boycotting Joker as DLC is something to think about, but nonetheless it's important to think about all these factors when buying stuff, to make an informed decision.

 

[EarlTamm]

Just to check something, isn't the guy in question not even involved with Persona anymore? Didn't he hand it off?

 

[Deleted member]

Just to check something, isn't the guy in question not even involved with Persona anymore? Didn't he hand it off?

I would like to ask the same.

 

[meleebrawler]

Separating the art from the artist is what it comes down to.

Although this one's not old, so it's tougher to do in this case...

Shouldn't be that hard in this scenario. Is Joker anti-trans or displays symptoms of it, while also being unrepentant about it?

Also I'd like to remind everyone it wasn't too long ago we were praising the positive portrayal of another type of stereotyped individual, Futaba. There are good and bad parts to every game.

WHOA there is a LOT to unpack here.

First, there is nothing "petty" or "selfish" about not wanting to buy Joker if they don't want to. That's a real mean thing to say about JD. It's their decision.

Second, there technically IS harm in supporting a bad person's good work. I'm not judging anyone who buys the games Hashino has worked on, but to say Hashino doesn't get enabled by the profits of his very successful games is as short-sighted as you accuse JD of being. The Persona and Catherine games got bad press BEFORE Catherine Full Body, yet it never stopped Hashino from making his decision with Erica and Rin in FB.

You say that he doesn't get paid for making controversial things in his work, but technically he does, because it's his work, which is what we and Atlus pay him to do.

I agree that there are good people working at Atlus, but Hashino is not one of them. This isn't like with Coco, the beautiful Pixar movie that came out shortly after John Lasseter stepped down amongst tons of believable sexual abuse allegations. People were won over by Pixar employees because even though Lasseter helped make it, he wouldn't be further supported by audiences if people saw the movie. Hashino, meanwhile, still has a job, so boycotting the game is a 100% valid way of approaching the situation. If people do it enough, then Atlus will either force Hashino to keep his bigoted sh*t out of his work, or fire him. They won't touch their other employees.

Edit: I'm sorry, I lost sight of my point. I should have mentioned that it's okay to buy Joker in relation to the controversy because it's not as big a deal as Catherine Full Body. We don't know all the details of who gets paid in relation to the Joker DLC. So boycotting Joker as DLC is something to think about, but nonetheless it's important to think about all these factors when buying stuff, to make an informed decision.

Would you say the controversial statements are selling points to his games?

Your example with Lasseter kind of supports my point that words are stronger than money in these kinds of scenarios: he didn't step down because his movies weren't selling, he did because people just plain called him out for who he is. It doesn't hurt that unlike Hashino, his behaviour wasn't reflected in his movies (they're for kids after all, and Disney absolutely would not tolerate it), so clearly people are able to enjoy his work yet not hesitate to consider him a bad person in real life.

Boycotting does hurt innocent employees when bad sales force a company to downsize and fire employees they can no longer afford to keep on board. If you want justice for trans or other minority groups, all you need to do is prove the haters wrong; punishing them should be secondary.

 

[Hinata]

Just to check something, isn't the guy in question not even involved with Persona anymore? Didn't he hand it off?

From what I hear, yeah, he's not involved in Persona anymore.

 

[EarlTamm]

From what I hear, yeah, he's not involved in Persona anymore.

Glad to hear.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So this means Persona 6 will have a fresh newcomer, hopefully one with more reasonable views.

 

[TheYungLink]

Would you say the controversial statements are selling points to his games?

Your example with Lasseter kind of supports my point that words are stronger than money in these kinds of scenarios: he didn't step down because his movies weren't selling, he did because people just plain called him out for who he is. It doesn't hurt that unlike Hashino, his behaviour wasn't reflected in his movies (they're for kids after all, and Disney absolutely would not tolerate it), so clearly people are able to enjoy his work yet not hesitate to consider him a bad person in real life.

Boycotting does hurt innocent employees when bad sales force a company to downsize and fire employees they can no longer afford to keep on board. If you want justice for trans or other minority groups, all you need to do is prove the haters wrong; punishing them should be secondary.

No, my example with Lasseter was that they're two different situations. With Lasseter, people were thinking about boycotting Coco despite the issue (Lasseter being supported by the movie) already being more or less resolved. In that case, people were afraid that Lasseter had "tainted" a good movie due to its development process that involved him not treating the women at Pixar right, and employees worked to remind people that not only was he not there anymore, but that it no longer mattered when it came to decisions about how buying tickets for Coco would support Lasseter or not. Like you say, his views aren't reflected in his work, people had trouble with his actions.

With Hashino, the views are the problem. Words alone WON'T help the situation, because they could have worked years ago because this sort of stuff was condemned back then too, but it didn't affect Hashino's standing. If people want to not buy the Joker DLC due to the fear that money toward him will further enable him (if money is being sent to him, we don't know, like I already admitted), it's valid and justified since words have not done much to hinder him from putting his anti LGBT views in his work. Atlus is a business, and in situations like these businesses can usually only listen to stuff like "my product isn't making money."

Also...what do you even mean by "all you need to do is prove the haters wrong; punishing them should be secondary"? Are you talking about Atlus, Hashino, people who buy the game? It seems like you mean Hashino, but what is all this anger toward Atlus and Hashino in light of Catherine FB, if not "proving the haters wrong"? We don't know the full effect of any of this anger, whether it will affect Atlus or Hashino or not. It's too early to tell.

Most of the anger today and yesterday doesn't really have much to do with the Joker DLC, but I brought it up in the first place for us to talk about if any of us had misgivings about how our money might be going to someone who clearly didn't learn their lesson and kept being bigoted. I know I'm uncomfortable with it, if that's the case.

P.S. as for boycotting being something that hurts innocent people, if Atlus is seriously tone-deaf enough to not even bother to look into WHY people would boycott something, then that's on them and not their employees. It would be a bad business decision if it came out that they downsized instead of doing anything substantial about the people most responsible for what people are angry about.

 

[amageish]

I came here to ask if anyone is worried about some of the money from the fighter's pass possibly being given to Katsura Hashino. There was a user in the Square Seven thread who was really worried about a possible Dragon Quest character giving money to Koichi Sugiyama, another anti LGBT person, but in Sugiyama's case he just makes the music. Hashino directs the Persona and Catherine games and headlines most of the story.

It's worth noting Sugiyama would actually be paid for DQ music being in Smash Brothers, given how he has kept a tight grip on the music rights for the franchise. Hashino directed Persona 3 through 5 (ignoring P3P), but does not have any rights over the IP and has left the Persona team since Persona 5 was published.

You've said it in later posts, but I think it bares repeating that boycotting Catherine Full Body is the best course of action here. If you want to also boycott Joker or ATLUS in general, then more power to you as well; however, that choice is yours to make.

It is kind of ironic that Hashino is a powerful man with corrupted viewpoints... If only there was some group who could convince him to have a change of heart...

Spoiler: General P5 Spoilers

Seriously, I love Persona 5 a lot, but the fact the game leaves out sexual minorities in a story all about marginalization is... Well, maybe we should have seen this Full Body controversy coming.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Okay, let's consider the following: if Hashino is indeed nowhere near Persona by the time Joker's street date is revealed, then there's no reason to hold back on purchasing him at that point. DLC sales floundering because of this controversy would end up hurting chances for a wave 2 of DLC.

Spoiler: General P5 Spoilers

Seriously, I love Persona 5 a lot, but the fact the game leaves out sexual minorities in a story all about marginalization is... Well, maybe we should have seen this Full Body controversy coming.

Well, you know what they say: if you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all. FB is pretty much a textbook case of what happens when you DO say something that isn't nice.

 

[Deleted member]

It's worth noting Sugiyama would actually be paid for DQ music being in Smash Brothers, given how he has kept a tight grip on the music rights for the franchise. Hashino directed Persona 3 through 5 (ignoring P3P), but does not have any rights over the IP and has left the Persona team since Persona 5 was published.

You've said it in later posts, but I think it bares repeating that boycotting Catherine Full Body is the best course of action here. If you want to also boycott Joker or ATLUS in general, then more power to you as well; however, that choice is yours to make.

It is kind of ironic that Hashino is a powerful man with corrupted viewpoints... If only there was some group who could convince him to have a change of heart...

Spoiler: General P5 Spoilers

Seriously, I love Persona 5 a lot, but the fact the game leaves out sexual minorities in a story all about marginalization is... Well, maybe we should have seen this Full Body controversy coming.

While it is true that Sugiyama would be involved in Smash with the DQ music, he probably isn’t with stuff like the Amiibo, the characters and stuff outside of Smash like the mangas.

Okay, let's consider the following: if Hashino is indeed nowhere near Persona by the time Joker's street date is revealed, then there's no reason to hold back on purchasing him at that point. DLC sales floundering because of this controversy would end up hurting chances for a wave 2 of DLC.


Well, you know what they say: if you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all. FB is pretty much a textbook case of what happens when you DO say something that isn't nice.

Yeah, I need to think about getting Joker or not, although I will probably pick the other characters in the Fighter Pass at least.

 

[TheYungLink]

You've said it in later posts, but I think it bares repeating that boycotting Catherine Full Body is the best course of action here. If you want to also boycott Joker or ATLUS in general, then more power to you as well; however, that choice is yours to make.

I don't want to boycott the Joker DLC, I was just saying it was okay for JDCabrera to do it if they felt like it, and that no one else should be ashamed of that decision if they want to make it as well. I have complex feelings on it since I don't even have a choice, I bought the Fighter's Pass.

 

[amageish]

Well, you know what they say: if you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all. FB is pretty much a textbook case of what happens when you DO say something that isn't nice.

Yep. The original Catherine and previous Persona games have had problematic elements, indicating that these are not new beliefs, but they are waaaaay more apparent in Full Body in a culture that is more aware of marginalization...

Best of luck to the localization team...

While it is true that Sugiyama would be involved in Smash with the DQ music, he probably isn’t with stuff like the Amiibo, the characters and stuff outside of Smash like the mangas.

Um. True? But, the DLC is explicitly advertised as coming with music tracks, so unless they exclusively use DQ spin-off music not composed by him, then they will be giving him money.

I don't want to boycott the Joker DLC, I was just saying it was okay for JDCabrera to do it if they felt like it, and that no one else should be ashamed of that decision if they want to make it as well. I have complex feelings on it since I don't even have a choice, I bought the Fighter's Pass.

I also bought the Fighter's Pass. Frankly, when Sakurai asked us to trust we'd think it would be worth it, I didn't consider that it could have meant "trust that we won't be giving money to bad people"...

 

[TheYungLink]

Um. True? But, the DLC is explicitly advertised as coming with music tracks, so unless they exclusively use DQ spin-off music not composed by him, then they will be giving him money.

My hope when it comes to a possible Dragon Quest character is that Nintendo pays Sugiyama ahead of time, so that, if a DQ character does happen, then they won't get any further money from me, only the initial money from Nintendo. I doubt it'll happen, though...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Reminder that until further notice, Erdrick's inclusion is a Schrodinger's Cat. The previous Direct was the best chance to tease a reveal, yet it didn't happen.

 

[Deleted member]

Reminder that until further notice, Erdrick's inclusion is a Schrodinger's Cat. The previous Direct was the best chance to tease a reveal, yet it didn't happen.

I am fine with any kind of DQ content doh.
In fact, I would love to get Eight from DQ8 more than Erdrick.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I am fine with any kind of DQ content doh.
In fact, I would love to get Eight from DQ8 more than Erdrick.

I would love Jessica and Slime myself. And I was called horny for openly wanting Jessica in the general thread, smh.

 

[Deleted member]

I would love Jessica and Slime myself. And I was called horny for openly wanting Jessica in the general thread, smh.

Weird that they did so.

 

[EarlTamm]

I also bought the Fighter's Pass. Frankly, when Sakurai asked us to trust we'd think it would be worth it, I didn't consider that it could have meant "trust that we won't be giving money to bad people"...

I don't think he considered that as well.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I don't think he considered that as well.

I feel sorry for him, all he wanted to do is include Joker because he liked his game a lot, and probably wasn't even aware of the staff's views until after the fact.

Although then again I don't think Hashino has any involvement with Persona Q2.

 

[amageish]

My hope when it comes to a possible Dragon Quest character is that Nintendo pays Sugiyama ahead of time, so that, if a DQ character does happen, then they won't get any further money from me, only the initial money from Nintendo. I doubt it'll happen, though...

Probably would be a tense negotiation no matter what they try to do...

I am fine with any kind of DQ content doh.
In fact, I would love to get Eight from DQ8 more than Erdrick.

I would also be fine with any DQ content myself - though DQV is the only title I've actually played, ignoring Heroes and Fortune Street. I'm just saying that Dragon Quest is more of a political landmine then Persona is, given how the problematic person actually owns property related to Dragon Quest, as opposed to having helped create it but given away the rights.

That said, you have no obligation to boycott the Dragon Quest franchise or a potential Smash character, just like how you have no obligation to boycott Catherine Full Body or Joker. You should do whatever makes you feel the most comfortable and the most happy.

I feel sorry for him, all he wanted to do is include Joker because he liked his game a lot, and probably wasn't even aware of the staff's views until after the fact.

Although then again I don't think Hashino has any involvement with Persona Q2.

I also do feel bad for him... These sorts of controvesies are not fun for everyone involved, but hopefully can lead to positive change as a society. After all, if you hold onto media you love and are not willing to criticize its shortcomings, then life won’t change.

also, to be honest, Nintendo has done similarly ****ty and confusing stuff when depicting sexual minorities

 

[Deleted member]

Probably would be a tense negotiation no matter what they try to do...



I would also be fine with any DQ content myself - though DQV is the only title I've actually played, ignoring Heroes and Fortune Street. I'm just saying that Dragon Quest is more of a political landmine then Persona is, given how the problematic person actually owns property related to Dragon Quest, as opposed to having helped create it but given away the rights.

That said, you have no obligation to boycott the Dragon Quest franchise or a potential Smash character, just like how you have no obligation to boycott Catherine Full Body or Joker. You should do whatever makes you feel the most comfortable and the most happy.



I also do feel bad for him... These sorts of controvesies are not fun for everyone involved, but hopefully can lead to positive change as a society. After all, if you hold onto media you love and are not willing to criticize its shortcomings, then life won’t change.

also, to be honest, Nintendo has done similarly ****ty and confusing stuff when depicting sexual minorities

That being said, Dragon Quest has a lot of stuff where the composer isn’t involved at all.
Mangas, merchandising, board games, animation and even some of the games where his work isn’t directly used.
It is possible to support Dragon Quest without giving him money.

Unless the DQ amiibo has a buttom that makes music sound, lol.

But yeah, I feel bad for Sakurai too.

 

[EarlTamm]

also, to be honest, Nintendo has done similarly ****ty and confusing stuff when depicting sexual minorities

True, but then I always recall Vivian and how Nintendo treated her. Sure her status as a trans female is not in the English or German versions, but that is less Nintendo's fault and more the ERSB's from what I have seen.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

True., but then I always recall Vivian and how Nintendo treated her. Sure her status as a trans female is not in the English or German versions, but that is less Nintendo's fault and more the ERSB's from what I have seen.

I'm reminded of the "don't hit women in America" stance that the North American branch took for beat 'em ups during the early SNES days, which somehow led to Final Fight's Poison being post-op.

 

[EarlTamm]

I'm reminded of the "don't hit women in America" stance that the North American branch took for beat 'em ups during the early SNES days, which somehow led to Final Fight's Poison being post-op.

Culture can sure be fickle as time goes on.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

I doubt Hashino is getting paid royalties for any money the Joker DLC brings, at least I hope not. Based on my understanding, it would be ATLUS themselves who profit. Hashino may have created P5 but he doesn't own it, meaning if he leaves ATLUS (which I hope he does); he can't just take P5 and everything related to it with him much like how Capcom is still capitalizing of Devil May Cry even long after Hideki Kamiya has left them.

That said, I now highly doubt Nintendo/Sakurai will just cancel Joker all of a sudden. Not only cause he's far into development, but also from the backlash consumers and other business outlets will have as this stuff has been covered on game-related media for months now and dropping him would be bad press. If this stuff happened BEFORE they announced Joker at the Game Awards and behind the scenes where adding him was still in the negotiation stage, maybe it would be the case though I do believe a fictional character/series' enjoyment should not suffer cause of the creator's own values but this far into the hype train when Joker is almost a month away? I don't think so.

People are free to not buy him if they feel uncomfortable about the thought of supporting a company that supports transophobia/homophobia/etc. People will not buy all the characters for whatever reason, so this may just be one of them if that is what they feel.

 

[Deleted member]

I doubt Hashino is getting paid royalties for any money the Joker DLC brings, at least I hope not. Based on my understanding, it would be ATLUS themselves who profit. Hashino may have created P5 but he doesn't own it, meaning if he leaves ATLUS (which I hope he does); he can't just take P5 and everything related to it with him much like how Capcom is still capitalizing of Devil May Cry even long after Hideki Kamiya has left them.

That said, I now highly doubt Nintendo/Sakurai will just cancel Joker all of a sudden. Not only cause he's far into development, but also from the backlash consumers and other business outlets will have as this stuff has been covered on game-related media for months now and dropping him would be bad press. If this stuff happened BEFORE they announced Joker at the Game Awards and behind the scenes where adding him was still in the negotiation stage, maybe it would be the case though I do believe a fictional character/series' enjoyment should not suffer cause of the creator's own values but this far into the hype train when Joker is almost a month away? I don't think so.

People are free to not buy him if they feel uncomfortable about the thought of supporting a company that supports transophobia/homophobia/etc. People will not buy all the characters for whatever reason, so this may just be one of them if that is what they feel.

I like your take on the subject, tbh.

 

[amageish]

That being said, Dragon Quest has a lot of stuff where the composer isn’t involved at all.
Mangas, merchandising, board games, animation and even some of the games where his work isn’t directly used.
It is possible to support Dragon Quest without giving him money.

Unless the DQ amiibo has a buttom that makes music sound, lol.

But yeah, I feel bad for Sakurai too.

I know it is possible to support Dragon Quest without giving him money, but my point is that it is not possible for Dragon Quest to be in Smash without giving him money, unless they use spin-off music exclusively.

I mean, the easiest way to enjoy DQ without giving him money is just to buy the games used haha.

True., but then I always recall Vivian and how Nintendo treated her. Sure her status as a trans female is not in the English or German versions, but that is less Nintendo's fault and more the ERSB's from what I have seen.

Vivian is a very good example of doing a character well, yes! That said, the European versions of Super Mario Party and Mario Tennis Aces still use masculine pronouns for Birdo, so I'd say the record is spotty at best...

ATLUS is also definitely spotty at best, though I think they get a bit more credit for their role in normalizing the idea of not-straight video game heroes, even if it is handled in the vaguest and opaquest of ways. There was a time where Persona 4 was literally the most mainstream game with LGBTQ+ characters, for better and for worse. We've come a long way since then and it's good to see that ATLUS can't hide behind that initial wave of good press forever.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I doubt Hashino is getting paid royalties for any money the Joker DLC brings, at least I hope not. Based on my understanding, it would be ATLUS themselves who profit. Hashino may have created P5 but he doesn't own it, meaning if he leaves ATLUS (which I hope he does); he can't just take P5 and everything related to it with him much like how Capcom is still capitalizing of Devil May Cry even long after Hideki Kamiya has left them.

That said, I now highly doubt Nintendo/Sakurai will just cancel Joker all of a sudden. Not only cause he's far into development, but also from the backlash consumers and other business outlets will have as this stuff has been covered on game-related media for months now and dropping him would be bad press. If this stuff happened BEFORE they announced Joker at the Game Awards and behind the scenes where adding him was still in the negotiation stage, maybe it would be the case though I do believe a fictional character/series' enjoyment should not suffer cause of the creator's own values but this far into the hype train when Joker is almost a month away? I don't think so.

People are free to not buy him if they feel uncomfortable about the thought of supporting a company that supports transophobia/homophobia/etc. People will not buy all the characters for whatever reason, so this may just be one of them if that is what they feel.

Yeah, this isn't like the quick fix that was done for . Heck, Nintendo already lost stock because they stepped back from their 20 million Switch sales goal, so imagine this.

Vivian is a very good example of doing a character well, yes! That said, the European versions of Super Mario Party and Mario Tennis Aces still use masculine pronouns for Birdo, so I'd say the record is spotty at best…

The Super Mario Encyclopedia took me off-guard in regards to its French translation, so needless to say the guys who brought Super Mario-Kun over there most likely aren't unaware of it.

 

[TheRockingGoomba]

I'm pretty out of the loop on this Hashino controversy.
Did the controversy start due to the ending of Catherine: Full Body?

 

[Deleted member]

I know it is possible to support Dragon Quest without giving him money, but my point is that it is not possible for Dragon Quest to be in Smash without giving him money, unless they use spin-off music exclusively.

I mean, the easiest way to enjoy DQ without giving him money is just to buy the games used haha.

That’s what I tend to do most of the time.
My money to the Dragon Quest team and Square mostly comes from the mangas, some merchandising and other stuff.
Probably the Amiibo will be another way too.

 

[EarlTamm]

Vivian is a very good example of doing a character well, yes! That said, the European versions of Super Mario Party and Mario Tennis Aces still use masculine pronouns for Birdo, so I'd say the record is spotty at best...

Let's also not forget Breath of the Wild and the positive representation they did there. When you get down to it, I think Nintendo will be one of the better companies when it comes to this sorta thing, at least going forward.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Oh, another thing; remember the initial pronoun issue Gunvolt had at launch for a certain character? Yeesh.

That’s what I tend to do most of the time.
My money to the Dragon Quest team and Square mostly comes from the mangas, some merchandising and other stuff.
Probably the Amiibo will be another way too.

For the record, I buy DQ tie-ins at a bookstore that imports from France, so in my case it's impossible to tell how deep the rabbit hole goes.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

Yeah, this isn't like the quick fix that was done for . Heck, Nintendo already lost stock because they stepped back from their 20 million Switch sales goal, so imagine this.



The Super Mario Encyclopedia took me off-guard in regards to its French translation, so needless to say the guys who brought Super Mario-Kun over there most likely aren't unaware of it.

This. They didn't just suddenly drop Game and Watch because of it, and just edited that part of him that stirred the controversy. Unless Joker/P5's content in Smash includes some homophobic/transphobic implications (god I hope not...), it should not suffer from what its creator thinks/believes.

Furthermore as you inferred: Nintendo is a business. They know how popular Joker/P5 is and that adding him to Smash will incite people outside of their consumer base to buy Smash (and even a Switch) just for Joker (which is likely why all their DLCs may be third party). If they pull out on him 1-2 months before his expected appearance, people WILL get pissed off. Remember this stuff has been broadcasted worldwide, and Joker is still fresh in people's minds especially with the last direct confirming that he's on the way.

 

[amageish]

That’s what I tend to do most of the time.
My money to the Dragon Quest team and Square mostly comes from the mangas, some merchandising and other stuff.
Probably the Amiibo will be another way too.

Ahhhh, okay. Good decisions all in all! Sorry for my confusion about what you were saying...

Let's also not forget Breath of the Wild and the positive representation they did there. When you get down to it, I think Nintendo will be one of the better companies when it comes to this sorta thing, at least going forward.

Oh, really? While this may be Nintendo sacrilege, I haven't actually played Breath of the Wild - open world games just don't do much for me... It would be fantastic if they've actively been learning from their mistakes with the Tomodachi Life and Fire Emblem Fates controversies though!

 

[GolisoPower]

Let's also not forget Breath of the Wild and the positive representation they did there. When you get down to it, I think Nintendo will be one of the better companies when it comes to this sorta thing, at least going forward.

Okay, so it's been a long time since I've played Breath of the Wild. Who're you talking about, exactly?

 

[EarlTamm]

Oh, really? While this may be Nintendo sacrilege, I haven't actually played Breath of the Wild - open world games just don't do much for me... It would be fantastic if they've actively been learning from their mistakes with the Tomodachi Life and Fire Emblem Fates controversies though!

Okay, so it's been a long time since I've played Breath of the Wild. Who're you talking about, exactly?

Just... Gerudo Town and many of the things involved with it.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

....What in the hell happened here?

 

[amageish]

Just... Gerudo Town and many of the things involved with it.

Cool! Great to hear they've been improving overall!

 

[EarlTamm]

Cool! Great to hear they've been improving overall!

I do wonder how Fire Emblem Three Houses is going to handle representation compared to Fates. I don't think we need to discuss where Fates went wrong when it came to representation(Among many, many other things).