Social Hideout of the Phantom Thieves - Joker Social

[EarlTamm]

Here's a neat question, how do you think Joker is going to react to the superspicy curry? Joker has had a lot of curry in his time as a Phantom Thief after all, but probably nothing like this.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Here's a neat question, how do you think Joker is going to react to the superspicy curry? Joker has had a lot of curry in his time as a Phantom Thief after all, but probably nothing like this.

No more different a reaction than Richter, I imagine.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

Wow this place got doom and gloom pretty fast. Yes I am dissapointed too that DLC characters from the Fighter's Pass won't have Palutena's Guidance, and I will likely be dissapointed too if there isn't P5 spirits or the whole P5 soundtrack. But come on people, do not go down the level of rabid fans of characters not in this game.

Again, it's already a blessing Joker is IN the game. Everything else is just a bonus.

 

[amageish]

Here's a neat question, how do you think Joker is going to react to the superspicy curry? Joker has had a lot of curry in his time as a Phantom Thief after all, but probably nothing like this.

I think he'll have to be flustered and jump around, as everyone else jumps around giving their curry-breath a larger radius to fight in. That said, if he has some gimmick limiting his moves (a la Robin or Inkling or Arena's Persona Break), it would be funny if curry instantly restored it (not that I expect that).

Also, BBTAG fans, tomorrow at 4PM PST are the finals at EVO Japan. I wouldn't be shocked if some DLC was announced and/or shadowdropped then - hopefully including some of the missing members of SEES and the Investigation Team.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

I think ill have a heart attack if the Theives get announced for BBTAG

 

[EarlTamm]

I think ill have a heart attack if the Theives get announced for BBTAG

I am just hoping we get at least one more RWBY character.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Okay, earlier at the EB Games, I saw a new copy of P5 on sale for less than 30$. Seriously mentally debating on whether I should get it, or wait for what P5R entails.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

Okay, earlier at the EB Games, I saw a new copy of P5 on sale for less than 30$. Seriously mentally debating on whether I should get it, or wait for what P5R entails.

Yes. Get it. Please do.

 

[amageish]

I think ill have a heart attack if the Theives get announced for BBTAG

Well, please don't have a heart attack! That said, I doubt that'll happen.

Okay, earlier at the EB Games, I saw a new copy of P5 on sale for less than 30$. Seriously mentally debating on whether I should get it, or wait for what P5R entails.

We still don't even know what P5R is, but even if it's a 2019 enhanced version of Persona 5 in Japan, it'd probably not be out in English until 2020. You might as well go for it.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

Okay...what the flying **** is going on on Twitter?! Atlus is trending like mad. Did something happen in Catherine Full Body?

 

[Hinata]

Okay...what the flying **** is going on on Twitter?! Atlus is trending like mad. Did something happen in Catherine Full Body?

Well, to give you the long and short of it:

Spoiler: Catherine: Full Body Spoilers

Basically, in Catherine, there's a transgender female character named Erica. Even in the original Catherine, she wasn't handled the greatest as a trans character. In one ending, one of Vincent's friends, who slept with Erica prior to the ending, reacts with disgust when Erica comes close to him, shouting about how "the other guys knew you as Eric back in high school". Already pretty ****ed up.

But in the remake, Catherine: Full Body, there's a specific ending in which one of the main romance options (who is a demon by the way), goes back in time to "make things better for Vincent", the main character. And when we get back to the present, one of the ways the timeline was "made better for Vincent" is by making it so Erica never transitioned to begin with. Now, there's some divide over what the true context of the ending is. Some people are saying the explanation here is what happened. Some people are saying it was a mistranslation, and the true context of the ending is that Erica is still trans, she just hasn't transitioned yet.

Either way, **** ain't lookin' good for ATLUS. People are up in arms.

Quoting my post in the Ultimate Social Thread for context.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

Quoting my post in the Ultimate Social Thread for context.

Seems like ATLUS always struggles with stuff like this as I remember Persona 5 having similar criticisms.

I just hope Nintendo/Sakurai doesn't end up pulling Joker out of the game in light of this controversy.

 

[amageish]

Wondered if this would be discussed here as well...

Frankly, this has been a long time coming... I'm glad ATLUS is finally being challenged on this.

I just hope Nintendo/Sakurai doesn't end up pulling Joker out of the game in light of this controversy.

I, uh, highly doubt the contract had a "Withdrawal in case of transphobia in a game unrelated to Smash" clause. Certainly does sour the previously-positive reception to Joker's inclusion though.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, earlier at the EB Games, I saw a new copy of P5 on sale for less than 30$. Seriously mentally debating on whether I should get it, or wait for what P5R entails.

Yes. We don't know what P5R is or any of the other games. You have nothing to lose by buying the game now at a pretty good price.

I just hope Nintendo/Sakurai doesn't end up pulling Joker out of the game in light of this controversy.

I doubt they would pull a character that is extremely far into development over this one thing.

 

[Robertman2]

Me @ Atlus rn

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

I honestly couldn't care less about the whole Catherine thing, it's not like that isn't gonna make not buy P5R whenever it releases.



Also it's a ResetEra post that i wouldn't even trust to begin with.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

Welp, seems like the Catherine issue was all fake/blown out of proportion. Cannot believe I got all worked up for nothing...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Welp, seems like the Catherine issue was all fake/blown out of proportion. Cannot believe I got all worked up for nothing...

If only we knew that may also be the case for the Erdrick rumors. Lord knows this board needs to blow off some steam by Summer.

Yes. Get it. Please do.

Yes. We don't know what P5R is or any of the other games. You have nothing to lose by buying the game now at a pretty good price.

Okay lads, I'll be grabbing it next week.

 

[Robertman2]

Welp, seems like the Catherine issue was all fake/blown out of proportion. Cannot believe I got all worked up for nothing...

Because Atlus has a history of being awful when it comes to LGBT stuff in thier games. So all of this was extremely believable

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Heck, even Bonk had a power-up form that basically had him crossdress, which had to be altered for Western releases. And the first game had Atlus as one of the developers.

 

[Melonsismyusername]

Joker>geno joker over Geno any day of the year lmao

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

Joker>geno joker over Geno any day of the year lmao

This isnt the correct thread to say that honestly.

 

[EarlTamm]

This isnt the correct thread to say that honestly.

And it is certainly not a respectful thing to say, especially from the perspective of someone who likes both characters. You don't want outsiders to get the wrong idea.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

And it is certainly not a respectful thing to say, especially from the perspective of someone who likes both characters. You don't want outsiders to get the wrong idea.

Not to mention the stuff the Geno community has gone through for months now.

 

[amageish]

Because Atlus has a history of being awful when it comes to LGBT stuff in thier games. So all of this was extremely believable

Yeah... I do hope the inevitable P5 enhanced version is directed by Azusa Kido (who did the FeMC route in P3P)... Or really anyone with Hashino's troubling history.

And it is certainly not a respectful thing to say, especially from the perspective of someone who likes both characters. You don't want outsiders to get the wrong idea.

I don't see much benefit from randomly comparing two characters from different games with completely different reasons to be included in Smash Bros.

 

[TheYungLink]

Welp, seems like the Catherine issue was all fake/blown out of proportion. Cannot believe I got all worked up for nothing...

It's not fake. Here's one of many tweets talking about it (linked and not embedded due to justifiably strong language): https://twitter.com/BeerStix/status/1096642801507405824?s=19

I came here to ask if anyone is worried about some of the money from the fighter's pass possibly being given to Katsura Hashino. There was a user in the Square Seven thread who was really worried about a possible Dragon Quest character giving money to Koichi Sugiyama, another anti LGBT person, but in Sugiyama's case he just makes the music. Hashino directs the Persona and Catherine games and headlines most of the story.

Personally, I feel disgusted that Atlus Japan / Hashino are being this blatant and antagonistic toward trans people. Like, this isn't an accident or a misunderstanding, or even "what they believed in the past" since Persona 3-5 and the original Catherine had this to, this scene means either Hashino or someone else wrote this scene in as a statement. It's cruel, there's no other words for it.

I'm still looking forward to Joker and don't expect him to be pulled, but my excitement for him is now given a huge damper cuz of all this.

 

[Deleted member]

It's not fake. Here's one of many tweets talking about it (linked and not embedded due to justifiably strong language): https://twitter.com/BeerStix/status/1096642801507405824?s=19

I came here to ask if anyone is worried about some of the money from the fighter's pass possibly being given to Katsura Hashino. There was a user in the Square Seven thread who was really worried about a possible Dragon Quest character giving money to Koichi Sugiyama, another anti LGBT person, but in Sugiyama's case he just makes the music. Hashino directs the Persona and Catherine games and headlines most of the story.

Personally, I feel disgusted that Atlus Japan / Hashino are being this blatant and antagonistic toward trans people. Like, this isn't an accident or a misunderstanding, or even "what they believed in the past" since Persona 3-5 and the original Catherine had this to, this scene means either Hashino or someone else wrote this scene in as a statement. It's cruel, there's no other words for it.

I'm still looking forward to Joker and don't expect him to be pulled, but my excitement for him is now given a huge damper cuz of all this.

I guess that I will just pick the other characters alone.

A shame, since I really wanted to get Joker... But I won't support bad people.

 

[TheYungLink]

I guess that I will just pick the other characters alone.

A shame, since I really wanted to get Joker... But I won't support bad people.

You don't have to not get Joker if you don't want to. I'm just informing you that no, it's not overblown, this situation really is as sh*tty as it sounds. Japanese people find it sh*tty, too, even if they're not being as loud as we are due to the somewhat more repressive culture toward LGBT people over there.

This is the crap that happens in our capitalist culture, bad people and companies still get our money because they make art and stories that speak to us, while in the same breath sometimes condemning us, or our friends. "There's no ethical consumption under capitalism" is a motto for a reason.

Ugh, if I was Joker I'd steal Katsura Hashino's heart, he deserves it.

P.S. this is partly why I had issues with the final boss of P5,

Spoiler: P5 spoilers

it was a representation of the people of Japan "letting all this bad stuff happen" that you fought to make sure nobody kept voting for Shido. I would have respected the final boss more if it was instead a representation of the law and economy of Japan, and other places like it, for influencing people to (edit: feel like they can get away with) act(ing) that way in the first place, rather than blaming the people of Japan in general. It gave me the impression that Hashino or someone else at Atlus felt that you could rebel against had people, but not the bad systems that encourage them to begin with.

P.P.S. it's better to not buy Catherine Full Body if you don't want to, than to buy the Fighter's Pass. Despite my misgivings with possibly giving Hashino money, I don't think you need to feel guilty about buying a DLC character you like, especially compared to Catherine FB which is way worse.

 

[Deleted member]

You don't have to not get Joker if you don't want to. I'm just informing you that no, it's not overblown, this situation really is as sh*tty as it sounds. Japanese people find it sh*tty, too, even if they're not being as loud as we are due to the somewhat more repressive culture toward LGBT people over there.

This is the crap that happens in our capitalist culture, bad people and companies still get our money because they make art and stories that speak to us, while in the same breath sometimes condemning us, or our friends. "There's no ethical consumption under capitalism" is a motto for a reason.

Ugh, if I was Joker I'd steal Katsura Hashino's heart, he deserves it.

But I have a heart, and support trans people.

I don't want to give that person my money, as much as I will miss Joker.

 

[TheYungLink]

But I have a heart, and support trans people.

I don't want to give that person my money, as much as I will miss Joker.

I understand. It's a hard choice but I respect it.

I love my trans friends deeply and on some level I really regret buying the Fighter's Pass now that this has come up.

I edited my post to include more of my thoughts in case you're interested.

 

[Deleted member]

I understand. It's a hard choice but I respect it.

I love my trans friends deeply and on some level I really regret buying the Fighter's Pass now that this has come up. It's a hard choice but I respect it.

I edited my post to include more of my thoughts in case you're interested.

We have a similar deal.
I also do this for one of my friends, who is trans.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Oh no, not again.

Is there a JRPG franchise that's viable for Smash that doesn't have someone with dubious viewpoints in the staff? First Dragon Quest, now this.

Lord knows wonders how Sakurai feels about all of this. Also, has anyone heard of Wandering Son? I hear that treats the topic sensibly.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh no, not again.

Is there a JRPG franchise that's viable for Smash that doesn't have someone with dubious viewpoints in the staff? First Dragon Quest, now this.

Lord knows wonders how Sakurai feels about all of this. Also, has anyone heard of Wandering Son? I hear that treats the topic sensibly.

Tbf, Dragon Quest's problem is just with the composer.

And Dragon Quest is more than music.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Tbf, Dragon Quest's problem is just with the composer.

And Dragon Quest is more than music.

Yeah, though even then Optimistic refuses to support anything DQ by principle because of him, regardless of DQ's modest reception over here.

Sometimes I miss the guy that did the first two Personas.

 

[TheYungLink]

We have a similar deal.
I also do this for one of my friends, who is trans.

One of my friends had a good idea on approaching all of this. I'll quote them and change their name since they're on a locked Twitter account i.e. they don't want attention from outside people:

My friend had a good idea about this. Going through Catherine's credits, taking note of the people who produced/wrote that story and those characters, and being VERY wary of them in the future.

Catherine Full Body's credits aren't out yet, according to Googling, but it's what I plan to do when the game drops over here in the West.

 

[EarlTamm]

All of this really stings, but I am almost disturbed to say that I have become so numb to all of this. Maybe it is because I have taken the full brunt of what the Square thread had to offer. Maybe it is because of all the news that has come and gone about this sort of stuff since what feels like forever ago. Maybe it all goes down to my personal perspective on art vs the creator. I don't quite know anymore.

 

[meleebrawler]

We have a similar deal.
I also do this for one of my friends, who is trans.

Do you like Joker? For who he is and not who he's created by? Even if you don't like someone, is there harm in supporting the good work they do? It doesn't have to mean you implicitly support the bad parts. Demonizing an entire person's work just because he or she sometimes expresses viewpoints you find offensive is just plain shortsighted, unrealistically black & white practice that doesn't help anyone.

He doesn't get paid to say controversial things in his work. He gets paid for making good, fun games that people enjoy playing. Boycotting them out of a selfish, petty desire to see him ruined is unlikely to make him change his mind (if anything he may only get worse) and will probably end up taking a bunch of innocent people down with him through layoffs.

Speaking out against his practices, on the other hand, gets him and Atlus bad press that can't be ignored no matter how well the games sell. And eventually he'll be given the chance to either clean up his act or be forced to step down. All this without necessarily harming Atlus as a company or all the good people that work there.

You reserve the right to buy or not buy anything you may or may not like, but don't lie to yourself about the things you do just to make some kind of point.

 

[Deleted member]

Do you like Joker? For who he is and not who he's created by? Even if you don't like someone, is there harm in supporting the good work they do? It doesn't have to mean you implicitly support the bad parts. Demonizing an entire person's work just because he or she sometimes expresses viewpoints you find offensive is just plain shortsighted, unrealistically black & white practice that doesn't help anyone.

He doesn't get paid to say controversial things in his work. He gets paid for making good, fun games that people enjoy playing. Boycotting them out of a selfish, petty desire to see him ruined is unlikely to make him change his mind (if anything he may only get worse) and will probably end up taking a bunch of innocent people down with him through layoffs.

Speaking out against his practices, on the other hand, gets him and Atlus bad press that can't be ignored no matter how well the games sell. And eventually he'll be given the chance to either clean up his act or be forced to step down. All this without harming Atlus as a company or all the good people that work there.

You know, that's a fair point.
I like Joker mostly because he looks a lot like me and seems fun to play as based on the stuff I know from Persona.

I may have to think about it.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Separating the art from the artist is what it comes down to.

Although this one's not old, so it's tougher to do in this case...

 

[EarlTamm]

You know, that's a fair point.
I like Joker mostly because he looks a lot like me and seems fun to play as based on the stuff I know from Persona.

I may have to think about it.

And when it comes to the Smash DLC, the person who likely has the most to lose is not Katsura Hashino, but Sakurai and his team.