Social Jigglypuff Social Thread (read first post!)

Invisi · Jan 12, 2016

Hey, do you guys have a discord server perchance? I joined the Skype group for a while, but I just found it impossible to keep up with so I didn't really participate.

CHOVI · Jan 12, 2016

Invisi said:
Hey, do you guys have a discord server perchance? I joined the Skype group for a while, but I just found it impossible to keep up with so I didn't really participate.

We SHOULD have one. Skype sucks IMO.

Vinylic. · Jan 13, 2016

We do have a discord server. Please PM me so I can send you a link, lol.

Invisi

CHOVI

Purin a.k.a. José · Jan 13, 2016

I sent a PM too,

Vinylic. ^^

Amiracle · Jan 16, 2016

I didn't know where to post this but I think in the next installment of super smash bros, that jigglypuff should wield a microphone as a weapon. It'd be like a 2-handed club

GeeHaus · Jan 16, 2016

Shower thought: Suppose tomorrow, Sing were buffed to have global range across the stage.

Broken?
Good?
Or still bad?

(Keeping in mind that shield and being in the air would still shut it down.)
I think it'd be okay at best, though I admit that ledge cancel *might* push it into brokenness.

Zerp · Jan 16, 2016

GeeHaus said:
Shower thought: Suppose tomorrow, Sing were buffed to have global range across the stage.

Broken?
Good?
Or still bad?

(Keeping in mind that shield and being in the air would still shut it down.)
I think it'd be okay at best, though I admit that ledge cancel *might* push it into brokenness.

I think it would make her a ridiculously strong character, even if Sing only affects grounded characters. This would be because the move would not only be very valuable on the ground, it would also have a tremendous psychological value, even if you don't use it at all, your opponent should be worried about a move that you can follow-up from anywhere on the stage with Rest. The move hits everything grounded, no matter where they are, right? If so, the only real options to avoid it are, to shield for the full duration of Sing, or for them to go into the air, and since Jigglypuff is so strong in the air, she's going to beat nearly every character up there. If they don't go into the air, they have to hold shield for the entire move, and since you could be on the opposite side of the stage or even on ledge, you could just use it again and again without being punished, until either their shield breaks, or until they are forced into the air. I think it'd be a bit broken, in my opinion.

CHOVI · Jan 16, 2016

Well, kinda broken but not really. It's not like we have the speed to go across the stage before they mash out of it anyway. Still, I don't think it'd be a good buff. It'd just make games... weird and annoying

Vinylic. · Jan 16, 2016

I just want sing to go through shields.We'd be a-ok.

DarkKry4 · Jan 17, 2016

did anyone even use Smash 4 Jigglypuff at Genesis 3?

CHOVI · Jan 17, 2016

DarkKry4 said:
did anyone even use Smash 4 Jigglypuff at Genesis 3?

Hbox and Dol. Both drowned in pools T_T

MarioMeteor · Jan 17, 2016

What's Igglybuff's favorite food?

Codaption · Jan 17, 2016

Zero Soul said:
since Jigglypuff is so strong in the air, she's going to beat nearly every character up there. If they don't go into the air, they have to hold shield for the entire move, and since you could be on the opposite side of the stage or even on ledge, you could just use it again and again without being punished, until either their shield breaks, or until they are forced into the air.

Puff actually gets beaten in the air by a number of different characters, either by a counter to her air game (she has a losing matchup against basically every swordsman and this is usually why), or by that character just having a stronger air game (Shiek). Sing also does basically no shield pressure, and you could dodge the hits like Tabuu's Off Wave to approach for a punish so there's that.

That being said, any move that hits literally anywhere is already game-breaking by default. Something like this is a huge middle finger to stage control and our stall game would become absolutely god-awful to deal with. Top players could possibly find ways around it (again with the dodging for grounded Sing, and to ledge cancel you actually have to go to ledge willingly which is a risk in of itself), but it'd be a hell matchup to play and for everyone else we'd be nothing but a disgusting braindead character.

Fun for us, though.

pikazz · Jan 17, 2016

have anyone missed my Rest in Piece video? 'D'

if sing did got global change so it hits through the whole stage, it wouldnt make her OP or stuff.
so easy to counter and so easy to mess up. but it would be a great thing to actually catch people off guard when they are in lag/landing lag

RDR7 · Jan 17, 2016

Shame about the Sm4sh pool drownings at genesis for puff. On the other hand. That n64 puff player got 3rd place. Makes me wonder why I play sm4sh.

Deleted member · Jan 17, 2016

CHOVI said:
Hbox and Dol. Both drowned in pools T_T

V I A B L E C H A R A C T E R

Seriously. I don't think anyone has gotten any results with Jiggs at top level bar BrianYDG's 17th placing at Super Smash Con. I see no future for Puff in the metagame if she doesn't get any buffs.

RDR7 · Jan 17, 2016

Feelicks said:
V I A B L E C H A R A C T E R

Seriously. I don't think anyone has gotten any results with Jiggs at top level bar BrianYDG's 17th placing at Super Smash Con. I see no future for Puff in the metagame if she gets any buffs.

Puff CAN be good in a meta like this, she's just heavily unfortunate for not recieving proper buffs from game to game, and not receiving tools she should have. She is supposed to be an aerial character with low knockback attacks allowing for several follow ups, she is getting only minimal combos if not mostly strings in the air in Sm4sh. Ever since brawl her combo game was neutered, along with rest, and various other options. In Brawl however it was the engine's fault for the most part that made her bad along with the nerfs that came with her. In this game, this can easily change. She got buffed from brawl but she also got unfair nerfs from brawl that ruined potential decency in her gameplay. With that I'll discuss what she needs back from brawl. She needs her aerial frame data back. Frame 9 bair, less laggy dair, and up air should juggle again. She can easily do good if she had true throw follow ups, n64 and melee prove this point. Pound's momentum nerf was extremely unnecessary and made her even more vertically challenged, and the trade for a shield breaker was not worth it considering it doesn't break enough, and has even went through damage nerfs from melee to brawl, 13 -> 11, and yet again in this game it's been nerfed. Pound in melee and n64 also allowed follow ups from said move. In this game this is possible, but only when spaced which means if they cut endlag she could have even better true follow ups from pound. Her air agility was also nerfed. The time it takes to achieve full airspeed is even slower than megaman's. If she had her same air acceleration she could easily pull off dair -> rest, on most characters rather than just characters with bigger hurtboxes minus dedede. It would also allow some fairs from dair to be pulled off as well. If you don't buy this then bump up puff's speed slightly with equipment and notice a difference. Rollout's power was also heavily nerfed from brawl. Granted its a bad move but if you get hit by it you deserve to get hit hard, rather than barely die at 120. In it's current state now it's only decent on slopes, (delfino stairs). Rest's kill percent is also barely enough to suffice a worthy reward, especially with blast kos off the top. In melee it was reasonable to be punished for landing it because it killed at 20. In this game you wont see a kill until mid percent. This can easily be fixed by just buffing the power by 10-15 percent making it more rewarding. If puff gets buffed decently in any of these areas excluding rollout I would definitely consider her out of bottom 15. Saying she can't be good in a meta at all is ridiculous and I will have to completely disagree. Sorry.

Deleted member · Jan 17, 2016

RDR7 said:
Puff CAN be good in a meta like this, she's just heavily unfortunate for not recieving proper buffs from game to game, and not receiving tools she should have. She is supposed to be an aerial character with low knockback attacks allowing for several follow ups, she is getting only minimal combos if not mostly strings in the air in Sm4sh. Ever since brawl her combo game was neutered, along with rest, and various other options. In Brawl however it was the engine's fault for the most part that made her bad along with the nerfs that came with her. In this game, this can easily change. She got buffed from brawl but she also got unfair nerfs from brawl that ruined potential decency in her gameplay. With that I'll discuss what she needs back from brawl. She needs her aerial frame data back. Frame 9 bair, less laggy dair, and up air should juggle again. She can easily do good if she had true throw follow ups, n64 and melee prove this point. Pound's momentum nerf was extremely unnecessary and made her even more vertically challenged, and the trade for a shield breaker was not worth it considering it doesn't break enough, and has even went through damage nerfs from melee to brawl, 13 -> 11, and yet again in this game it's been nerfed. Pound in melee and n64 also allowed follow ups from said move. In this game this is possible, but only when spaced which means if they cut endlag she could have even better true follow ups from pound. Her air agility was also nerfed. The time it takes to achieve full airspeed is even slower than megaman's. If she had her same air acceleration she could easily pull off dair -> rest, on most characters rather than just characters with bigger hurtboxes minus dedede. It would also allow some fairs from dair to be pulled off as well. If you don't buy this then bump up puff's speed slightly with equipment and notice a difference. Rollout's power was also heavily nerfed from brawl. Granted its a bad move but if you get hit by it you deserve to get hit hard, rather than barely die at 120. In it's current state now it's only decent on slopes, (delfino stairs). Rest's kill percent is also barely enough to suffice a worthy reward, especially with blast kos off the top. In melee it was reasonable to be punished for landing it because it killed at 20. In this game you wont see a kill until mid percent. This can easily be fixed by just buffing the power by 10-15 percent making it more rewarding. If puff gets buffed decently in any of these areas excluding rollout I would definitely consider her out of bottom 15. Saying she can't be good in a meta at all is ridiculous and I will have to completely disagree. Sorry.

She can't be good in Smash 4's meta as long as the game's engine is still around to screw her over. Shielding is a powerful option that she has absolutely no pressure against, and the infinite airdodging and generally faster rolls don't help either. Ledge-trumping also immensely hurts her edgeguarding game, even compared to Brawl.

I highly doubt Jiggs will get any significant improvements, especially since it's been more than a year and she's had no real changes whatsoever. The fact the character was nerfed from Brawl along with players like Dapuffster, the best Brawl Jigglypuff, dropping her in this game due to her being so awful should really tell you something. Even if she ended up getting said buffs, I doubt she'd be able to viably compete, especially where many characters outclass her especially in terms of aerial mobility, ground game, air-to-ground transitioning and comboing ability.

CHOVI · Jan 17, 2016

pikazz said:
have anyone missed my Rest in Piece video? 'D'

That was beautiful

Feelicks said:
She can't be good in Smash 4's meta as long as the game's engine is still around to screw her over. Shielding is a powerful option that she has absolutely no pressure against, and the infinite airdodging and generally faster rolls don't help either. Ledge-trumping also immensely hurts her edgeguarding game, even compared to Brawl.

I highly doubt Jiggs will get any significant improvements, especially since it's been more than a year and she's had no real changes whatsoever. The fact the character was nerfed from Brawl along with players like Dapuffster, the best Brawl Jigglypuff, dropping her in this game due to her being so awful should really tell you something. Even if she ended up getting said buffs, I doubt she'd be able to viably compete, especially where many characters outclass her especially in terms of aerial mobility, ground game, air-to-ground transitioning and comboing ability.

If we had a better dair, of course we could pressure shields well.
Also aerial mobility is not a concern for Jigglypuff. Her movement in the air is really good.

RDR7 · Jan 17, 2016

Feelicks said:
She can't be good in Smash 4's meta as long as the game's engine is still around to screw her over. Shielding is a powerful option that she has absolutely no pressure against, and the infinite airdodging and generally faster rolls don't help either. Ledge-trumping also immensely hurts her edgeguarding game, even compared to Brawl.

I highly doubt Jiggs will get any significant improvements, especially since it's been more than a year and she's had no real changes whatsoever. The fact the character was nerfed from Brawl along with players like Dapuffster, the best Brawl Jigglypuff, dropping her in this game due to her being so awful should really tell you something. Even if she ended up getting said buffs, I doubt she'd be able to viably compete, especially where many characters outclass her especially in terms of aerial mobility, ground game, air-to-ground transitioning and comboing ability.

It doesn't matter whether or not puff will get significant improvements. I also don't give a rats ass about what Dapuffster said. I'm discussing what would make her gameplay more rewarding and make her overall better as a character. That's what she needs and I already clearly discussed it before. An example would be, good throw follow ups. Which is a decent answer to punish a shield rather than no throw follow ups from grab. The rest I've already put down, better frame data on bair woud be great because this would allow ledge trump bair to be easier and make it better as a whole. If rest killed 10-15 percent earlier fair rest and other follow ups into rest would be easier. I honestly don't even know what else to tell you at this point. You're just repeating her faults and telling me things I already know, even when I'm telling you ways they could be fixed reliably enough to get her out of bottom 15 and into a somewhat viable position. In other words it is what COULD happen. Also might I add from what I recall you don't even play this character nor even have interest in doing so. Constantly bashing on the character in a discussion is not only annoying and demotivating but it also doesn't make the convo productive at all. With that I'll be sure to not respond to any of your posts in the future because there is obviously no point in reasoning with someone who doesn't listen. Good day to you sir.

Zerp · Jan 18, 2016

Feelicks said:
Even if she ended up getting said buffs, I doubt she'd be able to viably compete, especially where many characters outclass her especially in terms of aerial mobility, ground game, air-to-ground transitioning and comboing ability.

I respectfully disagree, while I see what your saying, I believe Jigglypuff can become significantly better via patches, and was even originally viable this game, before any patches, it's just that, like always, she was neglected to the point she became "weak". Please take a look at this.

Jigglypuff's Update history[edit]

1.0.4

Instant reversal Rollout glitch has been removed.

Zelda's Update history[edit]

1.0.4
- Up tilt deals 0.7% more damage: 6.5% → 7.2%.
- Pivot grab's z-offset decreased: -4.0 – -18.7 → -4.0 – -15.7.
1.0.5
- Pivot grab's animation slightly changed.
- Some attacks have improved visual effects.
1.0.6
- Forward smash's SDI multipliers decreased, enabling opponents to be kept in place better.
- Forward smash's loop hits' angles altered, enabling the move's hits to connect better.
- Phantom Slash's ending lag decreased.
- Phantom stays out for roughly a quarter of a second longer.
- Phantom's respawn time increased: 6 seconds → 9.
- Back Lightning Kick has improved visual effects.
1.0.8
- Up smash's knockback increased and it KOs 20% earlier.
- Up smash's SDI multipliers decreased, enabling opponents to be kept in place better.
- Up smash's multiple hits' hitbox sizes increased: 3 → 3.5.
- Neutral, up, and down aerials' landing lag decreased by approximately 3 frames: 22/22/21 → 19/19/18.
- Neutral aerial's front hits and back hits have had their damage outputs reversed: 1% → 2% (front), 2% → 1% (back).
1.1.0
- Neutral attack deals 2% more damage: 6% → 8%.
- Neutral attack's hits connect better and launches opponents at a more favorable angle.
- Neutral attack's final hit's knockback altered: 24 (base)/150 (growth) → 35/130.
- Neutral attack's heavy position, bone, angle, size, and weight-based knockback adjusted on all hits.
- Up tilt's ending lag decreased: 32 frames → 29. This allows Zelda to perform true combos with it.
- Down tilt deals 1% more damage: 4.5% → 5.5%.
- Phantom Slash has a new 0% hitbox that leads into the sword's hitbox at low charges and pushes opponents away at high charges. This essentially removes the move's blind spot.
- Phantom Slash's ending lag decreased by 5 frames.
1.1.1
- Neutral aerial's back hits now drag opponents towards the front hits, allowing the move to deal more damage from this position.
- Farore's Squall's hitbox duration increased by 1 frame.
- Farore's Squall's ending lag decreased by 6 frames.
- Nayru's Passion's explosion hitbox start-up decreased by 5 frames.
- Nayru's Passion's windbox start-up decreased by 2 frames.
Nayru's Passion's windbox's position altered.

Robin's Update history[edit]

1.0.4

Robin can now grab edges from behind during Elwind.
Fixed a glitch where charging Thunder in midair refreshed Robin's double jump.
Fixed a glitch where Zero Suit Samus could perform an infinite footstool on Robin.
Neutral attack's second hit has been adjusted.

1.0.6

Neutral infinite's knockback decreased and its hits connect together better.
Forward tilt's "deadspot" has been partially fixed.
Tomes do not disappear when landing on platforms.
Fixed a glitch where female Robin's Levin Sword would not repeatedly flash to indicate that it was about to break.

1.0.8

Neutral infinite slightly pushes Robin backward upon completion. While this can potentially push him off a stage, the push effect can also enable him to space better.

1.1.0

Down throw deals signifcantly less base knockback (80 (base)/55(growth) →30/88) and moderately decreased ending lag (43 frames→ 37), making it better for follow-ups.
Up throw deals 1% more damage: 8% → 9%.
Forward aerial deals 1% more damage: 6.5% → 7.5% (Bronze), 11.5% → 12.5% (Levin).
Levin Sword up smash's hitbox sizes increased: 3.2 → 4.3
Thunder and Elthunder deal 1% more damage: 3.5% → 4.5% (Thunder), 9.5% → 10.5% (Elthunder).
Speed Elthunder and Elthunder+ deal more damage: 5% → 5.8% (Speed), 11% → 12.7% (Elthunder+).
All variations of Thunder, Elthunder and Arcthunder have had their ending lag decreased by 3 and 10 frames respectively.
Elwind's movement mechanics altered.

1.1.1

Due to sword trails being longer when time is slowed, one of Robin's victory poses has subtle animation changes.

1.1.3

Forward tilt's position changed, size increased, removing the "deadspot": 4.0 → 5.0
Neutral air's position changed, hitbox 0 and 1 size increased on both hits: 4.0 → 5.0, hitbox 2 size increased on both hits: 3.0 → 5.0
Neutral aerial's landing lag has been reduced by 2: 20 → 18.
Forward air (Levin) position tweaked, late hitbox size increased 1.5 → 2.5
Forward aerial's landing lag has been reduced by 2: 20 → 18.
Back aerial's landing lag has been reduced by 2: 21 → 19.
Up aerial's landing lag has been reduced by 2: 20 → 18.
Down air (Levin) early damage increased: 10% → 11%, both hitboxes size increased: 4.0 → 4.5
Down air (Levin) non-spiking hitbox 1 angle increased: 80 → 70
Down air (Levin) transition from early to middle hitboxes increased: 1 → 2 frames
Down air (Levin) late hit damage increased: 5% → 8%
Down aerial's landing lag has been reduced by 2: 28 → 26.
Down smash has moderately reduced cool down: 61 frames → 56.

Lucina's Update history[edit]

1.0.4

Neutral attack's first hit has drastically reduced knockback.

1.0.6

Forward aerial deals 0.5% more damage: 8.075% → 8.575%.
Down tilt deals 0.5% more damage: 8.075% → 8.575%.
Forward smash deals 0.55% more damage: 14.725% → 15.275%.
Down smash's second hit deals 0.5% more damage: 13.775% → 14.275%.
Uncharged Shield Breaker deals 0.5% more damage: 8.075% → 8.575%.
Fully charged Shield Breaker deals 1% more damage: 21.85% → 22.85%.
Neutral attack's first hit can be interrupted earlier: frame 29 → frame 26.
Forward tilt can be interrupted earlier: frame 39 → frame 35.
Dancing Blade's first hit can be interrupted earlier: frame 45 → frame 42.
Dancing Blade combos more consistently.

1.0.8

Neutral attack has been improved. Both hits connect together better, due to the faster transition and the first hit's now vertical knockback. The first hit has also been given follow-up potential outside of transiting to the second hit, which is now stronger.
Due to the angle alteration of neutral attack's first hit, neutral attack can no longer jab lock.
Neutral attack's first hit deals 1.425% less damage: 4.75% → 3.325%.
Forward tilt deals 0.95% more damage: 9.975% → 10.925%.
All of up tilt's hitboxes now deal vertical knockback with improved base knockback, making it a better KOing option. It also has 3 frames less ending lag.
Neutral aerial has 3 frames less landing lag.
Dolphin Slash has higher knockback scaling.
Dolphin Slash and Crescent Slash deal more hitlag.
Lucina can possibly say one of two lines when using Counter: "My turn!" or "You're mine!"
Lucina may sometimes grunt when using Dolphin Slash.

1.1.0

Neutral aerial deals more damage: 2.375% → 3.325% (first hit), 6.65% → 7.6% (second hit).
Up tilt deals more damage: 6.65% → 7.6% (early), 7.125% → 8.1% (late).
Up tilt has 3 frames less ending lag.
Forward, up and back aerials have 2 frames less landing lag.
Down aerial has 4 frames less landing lag.
All variations of Dolphin Slash have 3 frames less landing lag.
All variations of Shield Breaker have 2 frames less ending lag.
Dancing Blade's first, second and third hits have 5 more frames of input window duration. This allows them to connect better, but makes the first hit harder to followup with other attack than another hit of Dancing Blade.

1.1.1

Partially charged Shield Breaker deals less shield damage: 30 → 25.

1.1.3

Multiple changes to the knockback, hitbox sizes, and damage have made Dancing Blade/Effortless Blade link better.

Mewtwo's Update history[edit]

1.0.8

Neutral aerial's landing lag decreased: 19 frames → 16.
Up smash's initial hitbox size decreased.

1.1.0

Forward throw deals 2.5% more damage: 10.5% → 13%.
Down smash's knockback growth increased: 112 → 118, KOing 9% earlier.
Air dodging while holding an item will result in the item disappearing as well.

1.1.3

Mewtwo's walking speed increased: 1.0 → 1.1
Mewtwo's dashing speed increased: 1.696 → 1.9, going from being tied for the twentieth fastest to the twelfth fastest.
Mewtwo's air speed increased: 1.15 → 1.25
Sourspotted forward smash deals 1% more damage: 15% → 16%.
Forward smash's hitbox size increased: 2.0 → 3.0.
Neutral aerial's landing lag decreased: 16 frames → 13.
Forward aerial's start-up decreased: 6 frames → 5.
Forward aerial's range increased due to having moved forward one unit.
Forward aerial's landing lag decreased: 18 frames → 14.
Back aerial's x-axis offset increased: 5.1 → 5.5.
Back aerial's landing lag decreased: 21 frames → 17.
Up aerial's damage increased: 7% → 9% (far) → 9% → 10% (mid).
Up aerial's hitboxes' sizes increased: 4.7 → 5.0 (hitbox 0), 3.9 → 4.5 (hitbox 1), 3.1 → 4.0 (hitbox 2).
Up aerial's base knockback increased: 0 → 40.
Up aerial's hitboxes' knockback growth decreased: 100 → 97.
Up aerial's landing lag decreased: 16 frames → 13.
Down aerial's hitbox duration increased: 2 frames → 4.
Down aerial's hitboxes have moved down one unit, giving it more range.
Down aerial's landing lag decreased: 22 frames → 18.
Down throw's angle altered: 69° → 74°.
Shadow Ball's hitbox size increased.
Shadow Ball's aerial recoil decreased. While this helps Mewtwo become less susceptible to self-destructing, it also slightly hinders Mewtwo's usage of the recoil as a form of horizontal recovery.
Shadow Ball's visuals improved.
Confusion's range increased due to its grab parameter having become larger.
Falco's Update history[edit]
1.0.4
- Blaster fires faster.
- Forward aerial's landing hit deals 3% more damage: 2% → 5%.
- Fixed a glitch where Reflector Void would fail to properly reflect Timber.
1.0.8
- Neutral attack has been improved. It locks opponents more reliably for all of its hits and all hits have slightly larger hitboxes.
- Up smash's second hitbox starts up 1 frame sooner and lasts 1 frames longer.
- Neutral aerial has been significantly improved. It has larger hitboxes, can now properly keep opponents in for all hits, and always produces knockback towards the direction Falco faces, significantly improving its follow-up capabilities.
- Neutral aerial's second hit deals 1% less damage (3% → 2%), making the total damage reduced by 1%: 12% → 11%.
- Forward aerial has 2 frames of faster start-up (12 → 10) and overall completes about 8 frames faster (58 → 50), giving it follow-up capabilities. It additionally has reduced landing lag (32 → 25) and deals 1% more damage if all aerial hits connect: 5% → 6%.
- Forward aerial's landing hit deals 2% less damage: 5% → 3%.
- Up aerial's start-up was decreased by 3 frames (10 → 7) and its hitboxes deal more vertical based knockback, making it more viable for combos. Its hitboxes are also slightly larger.
- Up aerial's sourspot was removed, now leaving it with a single hitbox that deals 1% less damage than the up aerial's previous sweetspot: 11% → 10%. While this means it is much more consistent in utility, it means it no longer has a hitbox that is extra powerful.
- Down aerial's sweetspot lasts 1 frame longer, and its sourspot's hitboxes are slightly larger.
- Down aerial's sweetspot no longer meteor smashes grounded opponents, now sending opponents at a slightly diagonal vertical trajectory. While this removes its follow-up potential at high percents, it can no longer be teched by grounded opponents.
- Falco Phantasm has 1 extra frame of start-up: 18 → 19.
Ganondorf's Update history[edit]

1.0.4
- Landing lag on all aerial attacks has been reduced, with neutral aerial having a moderate decrease while the rest of his aerials had a slight decrease.
- Aerial Flame Choke can no longer be teched, restoring the move's offensive usability.
1.0.6
- Neutral attack deals 1% more damage on the arm and hand hitboxes respectively: 6%/9% → 7%/10%.
- Up, forward and down throws have less hitlag.
1.1.0
- All variations of Wizard's Foot deal more shield damage when used in the air: 10 → 15.
- Down smash knockback growth increased: 75 → 94
- Down smash's second kick has a bigger hitbox: 5.5 → 6.5.
- Forward aerial damage deals 1% more damage on both hitboxes: 16%/17% → 17%/18%.
- Up throw deals 3% more damage: 7% → 10%.
1.1.1
- Neutral aerial first kick (clean) base knockback 20 → 0, knockback growth 100 → 130/90, and angle 55°/60°/65° → 55°/70°/100°, allowing it to combo into the second hit at low percentages more effectively while keeping its KO power intact.
- The reduced base knockback on neutral aerial's first kick makes the move less safe on hit and on landing at lower percentages.
- Neutral aerial first kick (late) damage: 7% → 8%
- Neutral aerial second kick (clean) damage: 9% → 10%
- Neutral aerial second kick (late) damage: 5% → 7%
- Neutral aerial second kick knockback growth: 100 → 120
- Neutral aerial second kick hitbox size: 4.3/5.7/6.2 → 4.5/5.7/7.4
1.1.3
- Neutral aerial first hit has drastically reduced knockback, allowing it combo into the second hit more effectively, similar to Captain Falcon's.
- The drastically reduced knockback on neutral aerial's first hit makes the move less safe on hit and on landing until extremely high percentages, less effective as a spacer, and completely removing its KOing capabilities.
- Neutral aerial first hit (clean) damage: 12% → 7%
- Neutral aerial first hit (late) damage: 8% → 4.5%
- Neutral aerial second hit startup: 20 → 17
- Neutral aerial second hit (clean) damage: 10% → 12%
- Neutral aerial second hit (late) damage: 7% → 9%
- Neutral aerial ending lag: 45 → 42
- Neutral aerial landing lag: 18 → 17
- Forward aerial landing lag: 23 → 22
- Back and up aerial landing lag: 20 → 19
- Down aerial landing lag: 28 → 26
- Down aerial hitbox shifted down two units, giving it more range below him as well as making it easier to land the sourspot.
- Down smash second hit on shield angle: 130° → 50°, now pushing opponents away rather than towards him.
- Down smash now flips opponents.
- Grounded, non-reversed Warlock Punch has 3 more frames of super armor : 11-63 → 11-66
- Grounded, reverse Warlock Punch now has super armor on frames 11-58.
- Grounded, reverse Warlock Blade now has super armor on frames 11-54.
- Grounded Flame Choke no longer has a blindspot.
- Dark Dive multihits damage: 1% → 1.2%
- Dark Dive throw damage: 7% → 9%
- Dark Dive throw knockback growth: 82 → 90
  Samus's Update history[edit]
  
  1.0.6
  - Sweetspotted forward tilt deals more knockback and 1% more damage: 7%/8% → 8%/9%. This makes it capable of KOing middleweight characters around 180% at the edge.
  - Forward tilt has a sourspot added to the middle part of Samus' leg. This results in little to no hitstun and it dealing 1% less damage: 6%/7% → 5%/6%.
  - Forward tilt can no longer lead into Charge Shot tech chases due to the aforementioned sweetspot's increased knockback and added sourspot.
  - Super Missile's speed is negligibly faster, resulting in it no longer being able to combo into Charge Shot if fired in succession.
  1.0.8
  - Up smash's hitbox sizes increased by 0.5.
  - Up smash's final hitbox's size increased: 7/3.5 → 7.3/4.
  - Up smash's final hit's knockback growth increased: 135 → 150.
  - Certain hitboxes in up smash have split.
  - Standing and pivot grabs have 4 less frames of ending lag: 79/92 → 75/88.
  1.1.1
  - Up tilt's damage outputs have been reversed: 13% → 12% (grounded opponents), 12% → 13% (aerial opponents).
  - Partially charged Melee Charge Shot deals 1% more damage: 5% → 6%.
  - Partially charged Melee Charge Shot's base knockback increased: 30 → 50.
  - Partially charged Melee Charge Shot's hitbox sizes decreased: 4.0u → 2.5u.
  - Fully charged Melee Charge Shot deals 2% more damage: 18% → 20%.
  - Fully charged Melee Charge Shot's base knockback increased: 65 → 70.
  - Fully charged Melee Charge Shot's knockback growth decreased: 35 → 32.
  - Fully charged Melee Charge Shot's hitbox's size increased: 8 → 10.
  - Melee Charge Shot's recoil distance increased.
  - Screw Attack's loop hits' weight knockback increased: 150/120 → 178/140.
  - Screw Attack's loop hits' angles altered: 100° → 96°.
  - Neutral aerial's initial hitbox size increased: 5.5 → 6.0.
  - Neutral aerial's hitbox duration increased: 2 frames → 4.
  - Neutral aerial's second hit's sweetspot hitbox size increased: 3.5 → 4.0.
  - Neutral aerial's second hit's sourspot growth increased: 80 → 98.
  - Neutral aerial's second hit's sourspot hitbox size increased: 2.8 → 3.3.
  - Neutral aerial's aerial second hit's hitbox duration increased by 2 frames.
  - Neutral aerial's second hit's angle altered: Sakurai angle → 45°.
  - Forward aerial's loop hits deal 0.6% more damage: 1% → 1.6%.
  - Forward aerial's landing lag decreased: 30 → 24.

As you can see here, Jigglypuff's true weakness isn't anything about her self, it's that everyone around her was effectively put on steroids. How on Earth is any low or mid-tier character supposed to stay viable when everyone just gets so much love and caring for them, except for you.

It's true that some parts of the game work against Puff, and that her character suffers because of it, but she has her strong points, and if she got buffs even close to the level everyone else has been receiving, I honestly believe she could be viable.

CHOVI · Jan 18, 2016

Zero Soul said:
I respectfully disagree, while I see what your saying, I believe Jigglypuff can become significantly better via patches, and was even originally viable this game, before any patches, it's just that, like always, she was neglected to the point she became "weak". Please take a look at this.

Jigglypuff's Update history[edit]

1.0.4

Instant reversal Rollout glitch has been removed.

Zelda's Update history[edit]

1.0.4

Up tilt deals 0.7% more damage: 6.5% → 7.2%.

Pivot grab's z-offset decreased: -4.0 – -18.7 → -4.0 – -15.7.

1.0.5

Pivot grab's animation slightly changed.

Some attacks have improved visual effects.

1.0.6

Forward smash's SDI multipliers decreased, enabling opponents to be kept in place better.

Forward smash's loop hits' angles altered, enabling the move's hits to connect better.

Phantom Slash's ending lag decreased.

Phantom stays out for roughly a quarter of a second longer.

Phantom's respawn time increased: 6 seconds → 9.

Back Lightning Kick has improved visual effects.

1.0.8

Up smash's knockback increased and it KOs 20% earlier.

Up smash's SDI multipliers decreased, enabling opponents to be kept in place better.

Up smash's multiple hits' hitbox sizes increased: 3 → 3.5.

Neutral, up, and down aerials' landing lag decreased by approximately 3 frames: 22/22/21 → 19/19/18.

Neutral aerial's front hits and back hits have had their damage outputs reversed: 1% → 2% (front), 2% → 1% (back).

1.1.0

Neutral attack deals 2% more damage: 6% → 8%.

Neutral attack's hits connect better and launches opponents at a more favorable angle.

Neutral attack's final hit's knockback altered: 24 (base)/150 (growth) → 35/130.

Neutral attack's heavy position, bone, angle, size, and weight-based knockback adjusted on all hits.

Up tilt's ending lag decreased: 32 frames → 29. This allows Zelda to perform true combos with it.

Down tilt deals 1% more damage: 4.5% → 5.5%.

Phantom Slash has a new 0% hitbox that leads into the sword's hitbox at low charges and pushes opponents away at high charges. This essentially removes the move's blind spot.

Phantom Slash's ending lag decreased by 5 frames.

1.1.1

Neutral aerial's back hits now drag opponents towards the front hits, allowing the move to deal more damage from this position.

Farore's Squall's hitbox duration increased by 1 frame.

Farore's Squall's ending lag decreased by 6 frames.

Nayru's Passion's explosion hitbox start-up decreased by 5 frames.

Nayru's Passion's windbox start-up decreased by 2 frames.

Nayru's Passion's windbox's position altered.

Robin's Update history[edit]

1.0.4

Robin can now grab edges from behind during Elwind.

Fixed a glitch where charging Thunder in midair refreshed Robin's double jump.

Fixed a glitch where Zero Suit Samus could perform an infinite footstool on Robin.

Neutral attack's second hit has been adjusted.

1.0.6

Neutral infinite's knockback decreased and its hits connect together better.

Forward tilt's "deadspot" has been partially fixed.

Tomes do not disappear when landing on platforms.

Fixed a glitch where female Robin's Levin Sword would not repeatedly flash to indicate that it was about to break.

1.0.8

Neutral infinite slightly pushes Robin backward upon completion. While this can potentially push him off a stage, the push effect can also enable him to space better.

1.1.0

Down throw deals signifcantly less base knockback (80 (base)/55(growth) →30/88) and moderately decreased ending lag (43 frames→ 37), making it better for follow-ups.

Up throw deals 1% more damage: 8% → 9%.

Forward aerial deals 1% more damage: 6.5% → 7.5% (Bronze), 11.5% → 12.5% (Levin).

Levin Sword up smash's hitbox sizes increased: 3.2 → 4.3

Thunder and Elthunder deal 1% more damage: 3.5% → 4.5% (Thunder), 9.5% → 10.5% (Elthunder).

Speed Elthunder and Elthunder+ deal more damage: 5% → 5.8% (Speed), 11% → 12.7% (Elthunder+).

All variations of Thunder, Elthunder and Arcthunder have had their ending lag decreased by 3 and 10 frames respectively.

Elwind's movement mechanics altered.

1.1.1

Due to sword trails being longer when time is slowed, one of Robin's victory poses has subtle animation changes.

1.1.3

Forward tilt's position changed, size increased, removing the "deadspot": 4.0 → 5.0

Neutral air's position changed, hitbox 0 and 1 size increased on both hits: 4.0 → 5.0, hitbox 2 size increased on both hits: 3.0 → 5.0

Neutral aerial's landing lag has been reduced by 2: 20 → 18.

Forward air (Levin) position tweaked, late hitbox size increased 1.5 → 2.5

Forward aerial's landing lag has been reduced by 2: 20 → 18.

Back aerial's landing lag has been reduced by 2: 21 → 19.

Up aerial's landing lag has been reduced by 2: 20 → 18.

Down air (Levin) early damage increased: 10% → 11%, both hitboxes size increased: 4.0 → 4.5

Down air (Levin) non-spiking hitbox 1 angle increased: 80 → 70

Down air (Levin) transition from early to middle hitboxes increased: 1 → 2 frames

Down air (Levin) late hit damage increased: 5% → 8%

Down aerial's landing lag has been reduced by 2: 28 → 26.

Down smash has moderately reduced cool down: 61 frames → 56.

Lucina's Update history[edit]

1.0.4

Neutral attack's first hit has drastically reduced knockback.

1.0.6

Forward aerial deals 0.5% more damage: 8.075% → 8.575%.

Down tilt deals 0.5% more damage: 8.075% → 8.575%.

Forward smash deals 0.55% more damage: 14.725% → 15.275%.

Down smash's second hit deals 0.5% more damage: 13.775% → 14.275%.

Uncharged Shield Breaker deals 0.5% more damage: 8.075% → 8.575%.

Fully charged Shield Breaker deals 1% more damage: 21.85% → 22.85%.

Neutral attack's first hit can be interrupted earlier: frame 29 → frame 26.

Forward tilt can be interrupted earlier: frame 39 → frame 35.

Dancing Blade's first hit can be interrupted earlier: frame 45 → frame 42.

Dancing Blade combos more consistently.

1.0.8

Neutral attack has been improved. Both hits connect together better, due to the faster transition and the first hit's now vertical knockback. The first hit has also been given follow-up potential outside of transiting to the second hit, which is now stronger.

Due to the angle alteration of neutral attack's first hit, neutral attack can no longer jab lock.

Neutral attack's first hit deals 1.425% less damage: 4.75% → 3.325%.

Forward tilt deals 0.95% more damage: 9.975% → 10.925%.

All of up tilt's hitboxes now deal vertical knockback with improved base knockback, making it a better KOing option. It also has 3 frames less ending lag.

Neutral aerial has 3 frames less landing lag.

Dolphin Slash has higher knockback scaling.

Dolphin Slash and Crescent Slash deal more hitlag.

Lucina can possibly say one of two lines when using Counter: "My turn!" or "You're mine!"

Lucina may sometimes grunt when using Dolphin Slash.

1.1.0

Neutral aerial deals more damage: 2.375% → 3.325% (first hit), 6.65% → 7.6% (second hit).

Up tilt deals more damage: 6.65% → 7.6% (early), 7.125% → 8.1% (late).

Up tilt has 3 frames less ending lag.

Forward, up and back aerials have 2 frames less landing lag.

Down aerial has 4 frames less landing lag.

All variations of Dolphin Slash have 3 frames less landing lag.

All variations of Shield Breaker have 2 frames less ending lag.

Dancing Blade's first, second and third hits have 5 more frames of input window duration. This allows them to connect better, but makes the first hit harder to followup with other attack than another hit of Dancing Blade.

1.1.1

Partially charged Shield Breaker deals less shield damage: 30 → 25.

1.1.3

Multiple changes to the knockback, hitbox sizes, and damage have made Dancing Blade/Effortless Blade link better.

Mewtwo's Update history[edit]

1.0.8

Neutral aerial's landing lag decreased: 19 frames → 16.

Up smash's initial hitbox size decreased.

1.1.0

Forward throw deals 2.5% more damage: 10.5% → 13%.

Down smash's knockback growth increased: 112 → 118, KOing 9% earlier.

Air dodging while holding an item will result in the item disappearing as well.

1.1.3

Mewtwo's walking speed increased: 1.0 → 1.1

Mewtwo's dashing speed increased: 1.696 → 1.9, going from being tied for the twentieth fastest to the twelfth fastest.

Mewtwo's air speed increased: 1.15 → 1.25

Sourspotted forward smash deals 1% more damage: 15% → 16%.

Forward smash's hitbox size increased: 2.0 → 3.0.

Neutral aerial's landing lag decreased: 16 frames → 13.

Forward aerial's start-up decreased: 6 frames → 5.

Forward aerial's range increased due to having moved forward one unit.

Forward aerial's landing lag decreased: 18 frames → 14.

Back aerial's x-axis offset increased: 5.1 → 5.5.

Back aerial's landing lag decreased: 21 frames → 17.

Up aerial's damage increased: 7% → 9% (far) → 9% → 10% (mid).

Up aerial's hitboxes' sizes increased: 4.7 → 5.0 (hitbox 0), 3.9 → 4.5 (hitbox 1), 3.1 → 4.0 (hitbox 2).

Up aerial's base knockback increased: 0 → 40.

Up aerial's hitboxes' knockback growth decreased: 100 → 97.

Up aerial's landing lag decreased: 16 frames → 13.

Down aerial's hitbox duration increased: 2 frames → 4.

Down aerial's hitboxes have moved down one unit, giving it more range.

Down aerial's landing lag decreased: 22 frames → 18.

Down throw's angle altered: 69° → 74°.

Shadow Ball's hitbox size increased.

Shadow Ball's aerial recoil decreased. While this helps Mewtwo become less susceptible to self-destructing, it also slightly hinders Mewtwo's usage of the recoil as a form of horizontal recovery.

Shadow Ball's visuals improved.

Confusion's range increased due to its grab parameter having become larger.

Falco's Update history[edit]

1.0.4

Blaster fires faster.

Forward aerial's landing hit deals 3% more damage: 2% → 5%.

Fixed a glitch where Reflector Void would fail to properly reflect Timber.

1.0.8

Neutral attack has been improved. It locks opponents more reliably for all of its hits and all hits have slightly larger hitboxes.

Up smash's second hitbox starts up 1 frame sooner and lasts 1 frames longer.

Neutral aerial has been significantly improved. It has larger hitboxes, can now properly keep opponents in for all hits, and always produces knockback towards the direction Falco faces, significantly improving its follow-up capabilities.

Neutral aerial's second hit deals 1% less damage (3% → 2%), making the total damage reduced by 1%: 12% → 11%.

Forward aerial has 2 frames of faster start-up (12 → 10) and overall completes about 8 frames faster (58 → 50), giving it follow-up capabilities. It additionally has reduced landing lag (32 → 25) and deals 1% more damage if all aerial hits connect: 5% → 6%.

Forward aerial's landing hit deals 2% less damage: 5% → 3%.

Up aerial's start-up was decreased by 3 frames (10 → 7) and its hitboxes deal more vertical based knockback, making it more viable for combos. Its hitboxes are also slightly larger.

Up aerial's sourspot was removed, now leaving it with a single hitbox that deals 1% less damage than the up aerial's previous sweetspot: 11% → 10%. While this means it is much more consistent in utility, it means it no longer has a hitbox that is extra powerful.

Down aerial's sweetspot lasts 1 frame longer, and its sourspot's hitboxes are slightly larger.

Down aerial's sweetspot no longer meteor smashes grounded opponents, now sending opponents at a slightly diagonal vertical trajectory. While this removes its follow-up potential at high percents, it can no longer be teched by grounded opponents.

Falco Phantasm has 1 extra frame of start-up: 18 → 19.

Ganondorf's Update history[edit]

1.0.4

Landing lag on all aerial attacks has been reduced, with neutral aerial having a moderate decrease while the rest of his aerials had a slight decrease.

Aerial Flame Choke can no longer be teched, restoring the move's offensive usability.

1.0.6

Neutral attack deals 1% more damage on the arm and hand hitboxes respectively: 6%/9% → 7%/10%.

Up, forward and down throws have less hitlag.

1.1.0

All variations of Wizard's Foot deal more shield damage when used in the air: 10 → 15.

Down smash knockback growth increased: 75 → 94

Down smash's second kick has a bigger hitbox: 5.5 → 6.5.

Forward aerial damage deals 1% more damage on both hitboxes: 16%/17% → 17%/18%.

Up throw deals 3% more damage: 7% → 10%.

1.1.1

Neutral aerial first kick (clean) base knockback 20 → 0, knockback growth 100 → 130/90, and angle 55°/60°/65° → 55°/70°/100°, allowing it to combo into the second hit at low percentages more effectively while keeping its KO power intact.

The reduced base knockback on neutral aerial's first kick makes the move less safe on hit and on landing at lower percentages.

Neutral aerial first kick (late) damage: 7% → 8%

Neutral aerial second kick (clean) damage: 9% → 10%

Neutral aerial second kick (late) damage: 5% → 7%

Neutral aerial second kick knockback growth: 100 → 120

Neutral aerial second kick hitbox size: 4.3/5.7/6.2 → 4.5/5.7/7.4

1.1.3

Neutral aerial first hit has drastically reduced knockback, allowing it combo into the second hit more effectively, similar to Captain Falcon's.

The drastically reduced knockback on neutral aerial's first hit makes the move less safe on hit and on landing until extremely high percentages, less effective as a spacer, and completely removing its KOing capabilities.

Neutral aerial first hit (clean) damage: 12% → 7%

Neutral aerial first hit (late) damage: 8% → 4.5%

Neutral aerial second hit startup: 20 → 17

Neutral aerial second hit (clean) damage: 10% → 12%

Neutral aerial second hit (late) damage: 7% → 9%

Neutral aerial ending lag: 45 → 42

Neutral aerial landing lag: 18 → 17

Forward aerial landing lag: 23 → 22

Back and up aerial landing lag: 20 → 19

Down aerial landing lag: 28 → 26

Down aerial hitbox shifted down two units, giving it more range below him as well as making it easier to land the sourspot.

Down smash second hit on shield angle: 130° → 50°, now pushing opponents away rather than towards him.

Down smash now flips opponents.

Grounded, non-reversed Warlock Punch has 3 more frames of super armor : 11-63 → 11-66

Grounded, reverse Warlock Punch now has super armor on frames 11-58.

Grounded, reverse Warlock Blade now has super armor on frames 11-54.

Grounded Flame Choke no longer has a blindspot.

Dark Dive multihits damage: 1% → 1.2%

Dark Dive throw damage: 7% → 9%

Dark Dive throw knockback growth: 82 → 90
Samus's Update history[edit]

1.0.6

Sweetspotted forward tilt deals more knockback and 1% more damage: 7%/8% → 8%/9%. This makes it capable of KOing middleweight characters around 180% at the edge.

Forward tilt has a sourspot added to the middle part of Samus' leg. This results in little to no hitstun and it dealing 1% less damage: 6%/7% → 5%/6%.

Forward tilt can no longer lead into Charge Shot tech chases due to the aforementioned sweetspot's increased knockback and added sourspot.

Super Missile's speed is negligibly faster, resulting in it no longer being able to combo into Charge Shot if fired in succession.

1.0.8

Up smash's hitbox sizes increased by 0.5.

Up smash's final hitbox's size increased: 7/3.5 → 7.3/4.

Up smash's final hit's knockback growth increased: 135 → 150.

Certain hitboxes in up smash have split.

Standing and pivot grabs have 4 less frames of ending lag: 79/92 → 75/88.

1.1.1

Up tilt's damage outputs have been reversed: 13% → 12% (grounded opponents), 12% → 13% (aerial opponents).

Partially charged Melee Charge Shot deals 1% more damage: 5% → 6%.

Partially charged Melee Charge Shot's base knockback increased: 30 → 50.

Partially charged Melee Charge Shot's hitbox sizes decreased: 4.0u → 2.5u.

Fully charged Melee Charge Shot deals 2% more damage: 18% → 20%.

Fully charged Melee Charge Shot's base knockback increased: 65 → 70.

Fully charged Melee Charge Shot's knockback growth decreased: 35 → 32.

Fully charged Melee Charge Shot's hitbox's size increased: 8 → 10.

Melee Charge Shot's recoil distance increased.

Screw Attack's loop hits' weight knockback increased: 150/120 → 178/140.

Screw Attack's loop hits' angles altered: 100° → 96°.

Neutral aerial's initial hitbox size increased: 5.5 → 6.0.

Neutral aerial's hitbox duration increased: 2 frames → 4.

Neutral aerial's second hit's sweetspot hitbox size increased: 3.5 → 4.0.

Neutral aerial's second hit's sourspot growth increased: 80 → 98.

Neutral aerial's second hit's sourspot hitbox size increased: 2.8 → 3.3.

Neutral aerial's aerial second hit's hitbox duration increased by 2 frames.

Neutral aerial's second hit's angle altered: Sakurai angle → 45°.

Forward aerial's loop hits deal 0.6% more damage: 1% → 1.6%.

Forward aerial's landing lag decreased: 30 → 24.

As you can see here, Jigglypuff's true weakness isn't anything about her self, it's that everyone around her was effectively put on steroids. How on Earth is any low or mid-tier character supposed to stay viable when everyone just gets so much love and caring for them, except for you.

It's true that some parts of the game work against Puff, and that her character suffers because of it, but she has her strong points, and if she got buffs even close to the level everyone else has been receiving, I honestly believe she could be viable.

That list is missing the rest buff

Zerp · Jan 18, 2016

CHOVI said:
That list is missing the rest buff

I was thinking about that, and I thought "huh, didn't we get a rest buff?", but for some reason, when I went to check, it wasn't on the wiki nor can I find any source for the buff after searching, so I'm really confused as to whether or not it's real? Sorry for my ignorance, but do we have any source for it or anything that proves it's a thing? I hope it was a real buff.

Pikabunz · Jan 19, 2016

What do you guys think about having a Q&A thread for these boards?

CHOVI · Jan 19, 2016

Pikabunz said:
What do you guys think about having a Q&A thread for these boards?

Great idea.

Kojii · Jan 19, 2016

Pikabunz said:
What do you guys think about having a Q&A thread for these boards?

We have one: http://smashboards.com/threads/jigglypuff-questions-and-answers-thread.415311/#post-20429129
it's pretty dead though

Pikabunz · Jan 19, 2016

It's probably dead because no one can find it. Gonna sticky it.

Codaption · Jan 19, 2016

Zero Soul said:
I was thinking about that, and I thought "huh, didn't we get a rest buff?", but for some reason, when I went to check, it wasn't on the wiki nor can I find any source for the buff after searching, so I'm really confused as to whether or not it's real? Sorry for my ignorance, but do we have any source for it or anything that proves it's a thing? I hope it was a real buff.

It was not. It literally buffed the flower damage by 1%.

Also, @Feelicks, I get the impression that you never even looked at my post from way back. I went into a lot of detail on her options against shield (four out of five of her aerials being decently safe on shield when properly used, two being basically unpunishable and Pound being able to break shields after pressure applied from like two of said aerials), and how you can think a character with top 2 airspeed and top 9 acceleration gets "greatly outclassed" in aerial movement by any other character is beyond me. Puff has flaws, this is undeniable, and many of the new mechanics in this game have it out for her. You're greatly overestimating them, though- ledge trumping takes away the option of edgehogging but brings to light her fantastic options for covering ledge (literally just hold shield and retreating Dair and you'd covered everything except ledge hop) and various ways of covering the vulnerability on ledge snap, just as an example of one.

Deleted member · Jan 19, 2016

Just wanted to come in here and say sorry for my behavior in these boards the past couple of months. I've been a major arse towards Jiggs players while being very overbearing with my viewpoints on the character in general, and I apologize for that. I shouldn't have antagonized you lot while ignoring most of what you've had to say to me, and I was being highly ignorant and self-absorbed on my part. Even if I personally don't feel like there's much hope for Jiggs unless she gets something in February that gives her what she needs, I shouldn't have been so obnoxious over my thoughts. With that said, I hope the best for you guys as Smash 4's metagame goes on. Show 'em some Purin power.

RDR7 · Jan 20, 2016

Feelicks said:
Just wanted to come in here and say sorry for my behavior in these boards the past couple of months. I've been a major arse towards Jiggs players while being very overbearing with my viewpoints on the character in general, and I apologize for that. I shouldn't have antagonized you lot while ignoring most of what you've had to say to me, and I was being highly ignorant and self-absorbed on my part. Even if I personally don't feel like there's much hope for Jiggs unless she gets something in February that gives her what she needs, I shouldn't have been so obnoxious over my thoughts. With that said, I hope the best for you guys as Smash 4's metagame goes on. Show 'em some Purin power.

I accept your apology, and I'm sure the rest of us will too. Thank you for understanding and I too wish you the best of luck in the metagame. Good day to you, friend.

Codaption · Jan 21, 2016

Seconded, it takes a lot of guts to own up to something. Looking forward to seeing you around from this point.

Wintermelon43 · Jan 25, 2016

I swear, if Jigglypuff doesn't get bufed next patch, and somebody sues nintendo for it, I will litertatly try to get into the court as part of the jury (Or whoever votes, I forget what it's called for some reason), and support that guy's case.

MisterDom · Jan 25, 2016

Wintermelon43 said:
I swear, if Jigglypuff doesn't get bufed next patch, and somebody sues nintendo for it, I will litertatly try to get into the court as part of the jury (Or whoever votes, I forget what it's called for some reason), and support that guy's case.

Witness? Audience? Incredibly incredible small chance you'll be part of the jury if at a viable age?

Wintermelon43 · Jan 25, 2016

MisterDom said:
Witness? Audience? Incredibly incredible small chance you'll be part of the jury if at a viable age?

"Try"

RDR7 · Jan 27, 2016

I'd suck **** for any buff at this point. - Rdr7 2016

Wintermelon43 · Jan 27, 2016

Ike mains:If I had a dollar for every buff I got, I'd be living in a mansion and be a billionaire!

Jigglypuff mains:If I had a dollar for every buff I got......... I'd be living in the streets begging for change

Furret24 · Jan 27, 2016

RDR7 said:
I'd suck **** for any buff at this point. - Rdr7 2016

Stay classy.

Jiggly · Jan 27, 2016

I'd suck multiple for a buff

Stickmanlolz · Jan 27, 2016

Jiggly said:
I'd suck multiple for a buff

It does work. How else do you think the Palutena mains got all of those buffs in 1.1.0? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

(the buffs did not help her much, but still)

jigglesthepuff · Jan 28, 2016

i would become a prostitute and beat tharcia 776 on hard mode for buffs

Social Jigglypuff Social Thread (read first post!)

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Woke?

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Cadet

Formerly "ZeroSoul"

Smash Journeyman

Woke?

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Smash Hero

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Cadet

Deleted member

Guest

Smash Cadet

Deleted member

Guest

Smash Journeyman

Smash Cadet

Formerly "ZeroSoul"

Smash Journeyman

Formerly "ZeroSoul"

Smash Hero

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

Smash Hero

Smash Ace

Deleted member

Guest

Smash Cadet

Smash Ace

Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Smash Champion

Smash Cadet

Smash Champion

Smash Master

Drop the mic, cause these fools sleeping on me

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

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