Jigglypuff Ledge-Cancelled Sing Stall

[Grim Tuesday]

If you hit the opponent with a ledge-cancelled Sing, you can keep them asleep for the rest of the game if you don't screw up.

Is this counted as stalling?

 

[_Rocky_]

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Cool story bro.

 

[Geist]

I'm pretty sure stalling is counted as anything that can eat up a significant amount of time without your opponent being able to do anything about it.
So yes.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Oh yeah, I forgot the Melee community doesn't try and find loop-holes for things like these and argue about them for 10 pages and two threads.

Nevermind.

 

[rhan]

Why try to find a loop-hole for something that is blantally obvious?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

like being fox getting like a 2 stock lead in dittos and start lasering like a man man and if they shine lock them in till the timer goes out

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Because it isn't blatantly obvious.

Stalling isn't even covered in the MBR Ruleset iirc, and the Brawl ruleset defines it as:
"any action that deliberately avoids all conflict as to make the game unplayable. Running from an opponent to get to a better position is not considered stalling, but using chain grabs infinitely against a wall beyond 300% or using Sonic's Neutral B repeatedly underneath the stage is".

Well, technically it's not avoiding conflict.

 

[rhan]

It's avoiding all conflict because nothing is happening. Using the sing cancel stall is like the Sonic or DDD stall. It doesn't take much effort to do and it can be done indefinitely.

It's stalling. There is no arguing that it isn't.

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

Yes, it's stalling.

For a more real world applicable answer, ask a TO at a tournament you're going to. They'll tell you that it's stalling too.

 

[Geist]

Those Brawl rules sound like something a lawyer would come up with.
****

It shouldn't have to be defined by a vague paragraph like that.
It should be defined by someone hitting someone in the back of the head and saying 'stop being a p*ssy, quit stalling, play the game for christ sake'

 

[Tichinde925]

like being fox getting like a 2 stock lead in dittos and start lasering like a man man and if they shine lock them in till the timer goes out

That was me. At a Tourney. Against Pipe. At an Esticle. At Digital Mayhem.

At this topic:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=101144

My Post in topic:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=2286049&postcount=33


Its called " Tichinde-ing "

 

[DippnDots]

I mean, if you actually manage to put someone to sleep like that, why wouldn't you just rest them?

 

[Hax]

here is my criteria for whether or not something is "stalling":
if the game was not timed, would the player be able to win by utilizing the technique in question?

as for jiggs' sing stall: the answer is no. the reason a timer is put in place is so that matches can end because the [losing] player is inclined to approach. timers are not meant to be abused; they should not be the reason certain techniques propel someone to victory. so yes this is stalling

 

[Dark Sonic]

I mean, if you actually manage to put someone to sleep like that, why wouldn't you just rest them?

Cause if you had a percentage lead you could time them out and win the game with no risk of a comeback?

But yeah it's banned. It can be done indefinitely and the opponent can do nothing about it...that's pretty clear.

 

[gm jack]

Rest is most often a stock trade, if they remember to DI off the sides. Most characters are able to punish rest with death at medium percentages upwards.

 

[DippnDots]

But.... you can hit someone with a rest... why would you not do that

 

[Geist]

here is my criteria for whether or not something is "stalling":
if the game was not timed, would the player be able to win by utilizing the technique in question?

I'm liking this definition.

 

[Pengie]

This is pretty ineffective anyway; any character with projectile pretty much stuffs it, hell any aerial approach stops it because you can't fall asleep in the air.

 

[TheGoat]

only if hungrybox does it.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

This is pretty ineffective anyway; any character with projectile pretty much stuffs it, hell any aerial approach stops it because you can't fall asleep in the air.

doesn't really matter what happens beforehand. once the sing happens, the 'infinite' is happening.

i don't think anything like this should be called a 'blatant' rule, if someone pulled this off in tournament, i wouldn't tell them they couldn't since there's no specific ruling against it. maybe if hax's definition was a standard, that would avoid a lot, but until then it would be unfair to ban a player if they did this without being told otherwise.

 

[a13c]

yay for stalling

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

movement camping to clock out is legit when they're on stage maybe on on edge cause of puff but no one does that. I abuse movement camping on KJ64.

if I make a mistake I am punished afterall and their actions affect mine.

I think if their acts can't effect the tactic you do or it auto beats a fair amount of the cast then it's stalling/ most likly broken for tournement play

 

[DippnDots]

well, even if puff does ledge stall, she doesn't have 100% invulnerability frames. You can smack her out of it. Soooo, not really stalling unless you get hit by it. Same concept as fox trapping you in your shine, you shouldn't have been stupid and shined a whopping 2-3% of damage with no hit stun.

Basically, cry less and don't fall into these traps. Real stalling is something you can't control.

If a jiggs has a stock lead and starts ledge stalling with her sing, be happy, because she's giving you a free hit that might get rid of that stock lead. Unless, you know, you're bad.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

jiggs can perfectly plank in melee.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Jigglypuff is to fun to be gay as why you ruin her like that? what? movement camping KJ64 as falcon next?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

well, even if puff does ledge stall, she doesn't have 100% invulnerability frames. You can smack her out of it. Soooo, not really stalling unless you get hit by it. Same concept as fox trapping you in your shine, you shouldn't have been stupid and shined a whopping 2-3% of damage with no hit stun.

Basically, cry less and don't fall into these traps. Real stalling is something you can't control.

If a jiggs has a stock lead and starts ledge stalling with her sing, be happy, because she's giving you a free hit that might get rid of that stock lead. Unless, you know, you're bad.

I was talking about trapping them in Sing by cancelling it on the ledge, bro.

 

[Dark Hart]

I wonder if you can actually capture people in a sing on the edge... does that really work???

 

[Moooose]

ya its kind of funny
since the rules dont explicitly ban it i think its legal
FOR NOW

 

[FoxLisk]

wtf. read the first post.
this is obviously stalling. saying 'you shouldnt have fallen for it so you deserve to lose to it' is a ******** argument.

dark hart: yes. if you ledgehop sing it hits them and you regrab ledge with plenty of time to repeat!!!

 

[Dark Hart]

... I never thought about it as planking before but... I guess it should be banned... seems pretty broken if it were to actually happen, which it's seeming more and more likely to me being that this is puff we're talking about...no one tell Chibi about this, he will totally use this every chance he gets.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

theres other ways puff can plank.

and movement camping doesnt work against most ppl lol. youll push yourself into a corner because youre basically surrendering your space. then you get ****ed up.

 

[HT F8]

Can't wait to do this in friendlies.

 

[Luma]

theres other ways puff can plank.

and movement camping doesnt work against most ppl lol. youll push yourself into a corner because youre basically surrendering your space. then you get ****ed up.

fox vs peach on dl64 works quite well

 

[Deleted member]

this is stalling, but it's much more hilarious than stalling. if i saw someone pull this off in tournament, I'd allow it.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

fox vs peach on dl64 works quite well

it does but thats fox on dl64. this is actually the reason fox is broken. because alot of characters cant threaten his space without comitting.

 

[mers]

Of course this is stalling (and therefore banned), for the same reason that wobbling past 300% or so is stalling. There comes a point when you're no longer gaining any advantage from continuing the technique, and therefore the only reason you would do it is to stall. This point is really after the first sing, however, as doing more than one still gives the same sleep time.