Ivysaur Tactical Discussion

[Technikall]

Wasn't Sakurai in charge of Smash64 and Melee as well?

These were great....

 

[Zigsta]

Sakurai always says he's not gonna be in charge of the next Smash. XD

Ivysaur versus Pit? I've never had too much trouble playing against him. You just have to be incredibly careful against him since he can easily gimp you. Learning to powershield his arrows helps a ton.

 

[Vermy]

Reason for bringing it up is my region has an amazing Pit main, (top 5 in this years ranbats) and my Ivy manages to almost always take 1.5-2 stock off him. Razor leaf has greater priority than pits arrows, and cuts straight through them. Pit can't get inside easily if you wall with dtilts and retreating bairs. Also, usmash has more priority than pit's glide attack. PUNISHMENTTTTTTTTTT

 

[CoonTail]

Reason for bringing it up is my region has an amazing Pit main, (top 5 in this years ranbats) and my Ivy manages to almost always take 1.5-2 stock off him. Razor leaf has greater priority than pits arrows, and cuts straight through them. Pit can't get inside easily if you wall with dtilts and retreating bairs. Also, usmash has more priority than pit's glide attack. PUNISHMENTTTTTTTTTT

Awesome stuff to know vermy cuz I could deff see a good reason to start Ivy. Does razor leaf cancel the arrow and continue on......is that what your saying because that honestly would make Ivy = MK in any matchup. I mean cmon you razor leaf and chase it after an arrow, RL eats the projectile and continues on to hit them at which point you have complete followup capability. Way too good!!! Lol and I hope typh knows about that U-smash on pit because not only is that punishment if the Pit is one of those fools who thinks Ivy just straight sucks instead of understanding its the recovery then pulling that off would yet again be way to easy.

Lol Vermy it sounds like you should come to the states and leave some pits jaw dropped when you drop an Ivy knowledge bomb on them.

BTW i thought grass was weak against flying 0_0 LOL

 

[Dark Ryu]

I actually prefer Ivy over Charizard most of the time. Also wouldn't ftilt be better to use than dtilt? I hate Ivy's dtilt.

 

[CoonTail]

LOL dark ryu watch that post your about to get yelled at. In short Ivy's D-tilt is very good its quick clinks with alot and overall is a better option than F-tilt IMO but overall jus watch that because Im sure a few PT's will correct you on thinking D-tilt sucks. LOL if your thinking D-smash then your completely right cuz D-smash has one LOL option and thats at gimping IC's lol

 

[Dark Ryu]

Well I hope someone clears it up and explains to me why dtilt is better :] Any advice or knowledge is always helpful. I do know that ftilt isn't that great for the fact it can be easily SDI out of and then be punished for it.

 

[Zigsta]

Dtilt has more knockback at higher percents. It comes out quick, so it's a great move for getting surprise KOs. Hit someone with it on the side of the stage when they're at high percents.

 

[Toby.]

Lol ice, razor leaf doesn't turn ivysaur into anything close to metaknight. Many, many characters have an attack that cancels out razor leaf.

 

[CoonTail]

No no toby i was jus talkin about the Pit matchup because what i was saying if you could cancel out an arrow with a razor leaf and the RL wasnt canceling itself, I thought thats what Vermy was implying because that would be ridiculous....have a projectile cancel out another but not be cancelled itself. I mean RL does go through shields people basically anything so I was thinking in the Pit matchup if you could throw an RL to cancel and arrow and it kept traveling so you could actually follow it so if the Pit tried jab or stop it its like a free grab, smash, etc. Lol so all i was saying is if razor leaf is beastly enough to eat and arrow and keep going that would be pretty amazing figuring Ivy would get full capability to punish whatever reaction the opponent had!

 

[Bestiarius]

Vermy, I totally agree with Coontail. You should totally come to the states! We could hang, or at least wi-fi (it should be better on the same continent, I would think).

 

[Toby.]

Ah ok. I got confused when you said "that honestly would make Ivy = MK in any matchup".

I'm 90% sure that razor leaf and Pit's arrows cancel each other out. I don't think razor leaf keeps going. I'll double check though.

Although even if it did, Ivysaur isn't fast enough to get to the opponent in time to punish their reaction to the arrow. We get there in time to guess what they'll do, but strictly speaking we don't have any sure fire way of following it up.

 

[Magik0722]

I played against a pit today in a tournament with ivysuar, they cancel out

 

[CoonTail]

I played against a pit today in a tournament with ivysuar, they cancel out

Ok well point retracted then but cmon toby your really gonna say that if razor leaf did that we wouldnt gain some advantage in the matchup....I was obv exaggerating pardon the Ivy = MK in any matchup it wasnt that serious just thought razor leaf cancelling a projectile and keep going would be awesome for Ivy in general

 

[Toby.]

It would help, but the problem is that pits arrows come out faster than our razor leaf. So we would need to be far enough away to actually get the leaf out in time. If we're that far away we can't follow it up. If we are closer, the only option we're limiting is pits ability to shoot arrows up close, which they don't really do anyway.

Not trying to bash your point, I just think that pit would probably have it covered anyway.

 

[CoonTail]

Yea tru enough toby lol guess I jus got over excited because sometimes razor leaf gets boring so anything like this would jus make me work a bit harder on my RL'ing strategies so my bad lol

 

[Vermy]

ivy vs pit needs to be played mid range. think this as fd. (P is Pit, I is Ivysaur)



.________P___I________.
we can keep him out with dtilt, bair, ftilt and dash attack, grab if we need to, and if he starts short hopping, vinewhip.




._I_________________P_.

arrows. don't get camped.




.________P_I__________.

here, Pit wins. his fsmash is a great panic button. and his tilts have "gtfo" written all over them. Ivy doesn't have naything to answer back with except maybe nair or bseed

keep it mid range and you win, but if the Pit can outspace you, it'll be an uphill battle.

 

[Kith]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyIQfWVV5Nw
1:36 seonds, invincibility bullet seed lol. Works so well. If it's shielded, you usually land on top of them and they'll get shield poked eventually.

 

[CoonTail]

**** kith that was great I would deff like to try that because Im sure if you dont throw that around all fight its gotta be a real nice way to off balance an opponent and guarentee a Bullet Seed.
Ive also noticed if as Ivy if you ledgehop a F-air and they shield it when you hit the ground if you bulletseed as they try to react the spacing is perfect to pop them right into BS.

Note: Obviously if they continue to shield this wont work but as stated about kith's ledge hopped BS if you dont use it multiple times in a fight your opponent will have a very hard time seeing this coming.

 

[Magik0722]

hah kith we were just talking about that exact moment in that video in the Backroom a few days ago

 

[Zigsta]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyIQfWVV5Nw
1:36 seonds, invincibility bullet seed lol. Works so well. If it's shielded, you usually land on top of them and they'll get shield poked eventually.

I've been using that a lot more recently. It can really surprise people.

 

[T-block]

if they shield can't the roll out without getting hit?

 

[Magik0722]

if they backroll yes because backrolls have invincibility straight away

 

[Kith]

hah kith we were just talking about that exact moment in that video in the Backroom a few days ago

lol I feel special now. But yeah, it's pretty safe assuming you don't spam it lol

 

[Bestiarius]

I still think Ivy vs. Pit is a crapsheet. Seriously, Pit's faster, he outranges Ivy, and he can actually recover.
It's incredibly hard for Ivy to out-space a good Pit. If Ivy can't out-space, you're toast.

 

[Vermy]

Like i said, i fight this Pit on a regular basis. His highest placing is first, so his skill isn't compromised. And ivy just seems to do the best for me. Squirtle a close second, Zard taking up the rear (pun intended). Pits arrows, nair and uair wreck zard.

 

[Magik0722]

um i dont get that pun

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

um i dont get that pun

i love magik.

 

[Kith]

How many people actually reverse-razor leaf when knocked off the ledge? Not to cancel momentum, but to have the option to back-air if needed. I ask because I've never actually thought about it until now, and it may be a good idea, so i wanted to see if others have incorporated that into their game and how it worked for them.

 

[Toby.]

I do it all the time, and its good.

 

[Zigsta]

I've been using it a lot more. I'm still having difficulties with it. Need more Ivysaur practice. XD

But like Toby said, it's quite good.

 

[Kith]

I'm gonna try that out tomorrow then and see if I can make it a habit. Ima be at fiu playing smash from like 8:00 am to 8:00 pm lol with some of the best in Florida so i'll get some good ivy practice in

 

[CoonTail]

Thats a good idea kith I had thought about this too I jus barely ever see Ivy when I play cause I start zard in 9 out of 10 matches I play because of marth and peach lol

 

[T-block]

if i'm not turned around, sometimes i'll throw out a f-air near the edgehogger even if it won't connect... some people get scared and get off the edge lol

 

[CoonTail]

I did this the other day T-block and man if it does connect the stage spike looks worse than any other. My opp was like **** was that even necesary.....at that point I jus woulda killed myself so I wouldnt have to watch my char get ***** so hard!!

LOL

 

[Phiddlesticks]

my favourite strategy with ivysaur is to not press anything when you grab the ledge with upb so that ivysaur eventually wiggles himself up to the edge in the cutest possible way

also crouch spamming whenever possible because it makes an irresistably cute noise

EDIT: also also i make sure to use "UGUU~" as my tag

 

[Kith]

Phiddlesticks, you sir are a genius. I too do the ledge wiggle technique, but I admittedly don't crouch spam as much as I should.

 

[typh]

i had a really good doublecrouch in a match

let me find it

 

[typh]

ok it was only one crouch but it was really funny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RH9TTv4pSQ#t=20s

pro mindgames

 

[Kith]

lmao that definitely should have worked