Ivysaur As A DLC! - VOTE NOW FOR HIM IN THE SMASH BALLOT!!

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You have no idea how badly I want him in. It's just. . . If we're going to have a grass starter, it should be sceptile. Even if there are too many pokemon reps.

I have problems with Sceptile being in smash. It's not that I don't like him it's just........Do not want. I don't even understand why. Especially since I'd fine with the idea of Bisharp being in smash. I'm the same way with Zoruark. (Although Zoruark is mostly because everyone wanted her to replace Lucario, my third favorite Pokémon, and my favorite Sinnoh Pokémon)

I have nothing against Ivysaur, he worked out well in Brawl as a unique character...when he was grouped with Squirtle and Charizard...on his own he just seems random...he's honestly just a (and I say this term loosely) filler character...
Squirtle first stage basic starter, a decent amount of popularity to be a smash fighter I can see Squirlte working solo...
Charizard final stage fully evolved starter, and arguably just as iconic to pokemon as Pikachu...already working solo....
Ivysaur middle stage. . . .and is not Bulbasaur or Venusaur...if Ash would've evolved his Bulbasaur in the anime Ivysaur would've had enough going for him as he would've left a bigger impression on the fans and given this middle stage enough relevance to be a solo fighter...one problem with middle stages for the starters they are literally there to fill in the gap between cute and cuddly and awesome power...
Everyone here wants him back simply because he was in Brawl if he wasn't in Brawl no one would enough think of Ivysaur (save for a few pokefans that genuinely like the pokemon regardless of their role in smash)
when it comes to Pokemon as returning veterans go Squirtle has a better chance IMO as for newcomers (I actually see newcomers as very unlikely unless there's an announcement for a new pokemon game soon) Sceptile (or even Grovyle if you want those middle stage grass starters) has the better chance with ORAS being a thing...plus it gives another pokemon generation some representation as well...

I guess I'm just one of those rare Pokéfans who genuinely like Ivysaur. I like Ivysaur, but I don't like Bulbasaur or Venusaur. I don't even like Charizard all that much, I like Charmeleon better. Same thing with Growlithe, and Zorua. Like 'em better than their evolutions.

 

[Aetheri]

I have problems with Sceptile being in smash. It's not that I don't like him it's just........Do not want. I don't even understand why. Especially since I'd fine with the idea of Bisharp being in smash. I'm the same way with Zoruark. (Although Zoruark is mostly because everyone wanted her to replace Lucario, my third favorite Pokémon, and my favorite Sinnoh Pokémon)

I guess I'm just one of those rare Pokéfans who genuinely like Ivysaur. I like Ivysaur, but I don't like Bulbasaur or Venusaur. I don't even like Charizard all that much, I like Charmeleon better. Same thing with Growlithe, and Zorua. Like 'em better than their evolutions.

Nothing against that, my favourite pokemon isn't fully evolved either (being Sneasel, still love Weavile though) and I like Haunter over Gengar....but the point I'm making is that the main reason people want Ivysaur back is because we was a veteran and that he has a legitimate chance because of it...if he wasn't in Brawl then chances are astronomical...but then again someone did open a Pidgey support thread...sooo...

 

[Braydon]

This is only in effect when the demand for DLC lowers considerably. At the moment Ivysaur doesn't need to step on anyone to get to the top.

What do you mean? This should be taken into greater consideration when DLC is in high demand, there are a lot of other characters people want to be added he'd have to be taken over. They can only develop so many characters at once, in order to work on ivysaur they have to not be working on another character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nothing against that, my favourite pokemon isn't fully evolved either (being Sneasel, still love Weavile though) and I like Haunter over Gengar....but the point I'm making is that the main reason people want Ivysaur back is because we was a veteran and that he has a legitimate chance because of it...if he wasn't in Brawl then chances are astronomical...but then again someone did open a Pidgey support thread...sooo...

He actually did that?!? lol. Although it's kinda sad that it's more active than the Squirtle thread ever was.
Also, the characters on my dream roster are characters like Amaterasu, Proto Man, and Boy & Blob. Saying that they aren't very likely will not phase me.
Personally, I think Squirtle and Ivysaur were intended for the game, but Charizard was the only one given priority due to him acrually having a fanbase outside smash. This would mean that all they need to do is finish them. it would be much easier than doing this from scratch. This could very well have been the case for Mewtwo and Lucas as well.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

True. It pains me that Squirtle and Ivy didn't make it this time around. But it pains me even more the fact that most people either don't care or think they shouldn't be in because pokemon has "too many reps."

 

[Aetheri]

True. It pains me that Squirtle and Ivy didn't make it this time around. But it pains me even more the fact that most people either don't care or think they shouldn't be in because pokemon has "too many reps."

As far as reps go Pokemon can be on even terms with Mario and I think it'd be fine, thing is pokemon has over 700 candidates so picking just a couple is no easy feat as so many possiblities...Squirtle I feel has enough going for him in terms of popularity as he is featured in the anime (which pretty much picking pokemon for smash is more or less determined from the anime or the movies with Greninja being an exception)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As far as reps go Pokemon can be on even terms with Mario and I think it'd be fine, thing is pokemon has over 700 candidates so picking just a couple is no easy feat as so many possiblities...Squirtle I feel has enough going for him in terms of popularity as he is featured in the anime (which pretty much picking pokemon for smash is more or less determined from the anime or the movies with Greninja being an exception)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last time we saw Ash's Squirtle was a loooooooong time ago.

 

[Aetheri]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last time we saw Ash's Squirtle was a loooooooong time ago.

As far as starter pokemon go at least Squirtle is amoung the top in popularity because of his role in the anime (being a veteran from brawl gives him an edge over other starters as well)...as far as relevance it is a moot point when you consider Duck Hunt, GnW and ROB at the time of their inclusion...don't forget that squirtle is available in X and Y (early game, and not post game like the other starters in other games) so that makes Squirtle's relevance a bit better...
My point still stands as Greninja was the only pokemon that didn't have popularity from any media other than the game itself whereas every other pokemon characters either had their own movie or memorable appearances in the anime...which by itself isn't enough to make it as a playable smash fighter, as Meowth has more appearances in the anime than just about every pokemon than isn't Pikachu...
Ivysaur wasn't as present because Ash never evolved Bulbasaur, and with Venusaur being a fully evolved pokemon is almost always more desired than the middle stage....

 

[Vsaur]

I think you just don't get it, that's why you feel the need to go to personal attacks instead.

Notice how your the only one who thinks he's not unique? we have been over this mewtwo and lucas are both clone-like and thats not that unique
↑
Well I'd left the thread but then something popped up in my alert box about my post being quoted, apparently someone wanted to insult me...


Also why does being a veteran make him deserve a return?
Click to expand...
lol, I'm pretty sure ALOOOOOOOT of people here want to insult you

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Notice how your the only one who thinks he's not unique? we have been over this mewtwo and lucas are both clone-like and thats not that unique.

Mewtwo is not a clone. Lucas is only a semi-clone because they have the same weight values. (I don't consider him to be a clone. period.)

 

[Braydon]

Mewtwo is not a clone. Lucas is only a semi-clone because they have the same weight values. (I don't consider him to be a clone. period.)

Lucas is a semi clone because he uses ness's attacks as templates for his, his pk fire is the same except it explodes instead of making the flame pillar, PK freeze is PK cross with less damage but better aim and an ice effect. most his moves are based on ness.

lol, I'm pretty sure ALOOOOOOOT of people here want to insult you

Because I don't like their favorite smash character?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Lucas is a semi clone because he uses ness's attacks as templates for his, his pk fire is the same except it explodes instead of making the flame pillar, PK freeze is PK cross with less damage but better aim and an ice effect. most his moves are based on ness.

Only his specials are. This is the same with Wolf, but Wolf isn't a clone because he has slightly different weight values, and hitbox placement, where Lucas doesn't.

 

[Braydon]

Only his specials are. This is the same with Wolf, but Wolf isn't a clone because he has slightly different weight values, and hitbox placement, where Lucas doesn't.

Hmm, wolf is still a semi clone. Not a clone but he uses fox as a template so he is a semi clone.

 

[Aetheri]

Hmm, wolf is still a semi clone. Not a clone but he uses fox as a template so he is a semi clone.

Not so much uses Fox as a template as it is more his moves are based off of fox's moves...much like Ganondorf to Falcon, where as clones actually are palette swaps where the original is used as a template...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Not so much uses Fox as a template as it is more his moves are based off of fox's moves...much like Ganondorf to Falcon, where as clones actually are palette swaps where the original is used as a template...

And even then only some of them are.

 

[Aetheri]

And even then only some of them are.

Yeah in the case of wolf it is really only his specials and his final smash, all of his standard attacks are unique to wolf...it's a shame that most people don't see this and end up hating on Wolf because 'he's just a clone' but yet there's no problem when Dr. Mario comes on board because he was from melee...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah in the case of wolf it is really only his specials and his final smash, all of his standard attacks are unique to wolf...it's a shame that most people don't see this and end up hating on Wolf because 'he's just a clone' but yet there's no problem when Dr. Mario comes on board because he was from melee...

And then there is Pichu who gets hate because he is a clone and suffers from PEGD (Poorly Executed Gimmick Disorder)

 

[Arbok9782]

I would personally love to see Ivysaur back. While I don't feel he is as iconic as Bulbasaur, I feel the visual element on his back is the best of the three versions.

My dream situation would be they bring back the Pokémon Trainer and give him Squirtle and Bulbasaur, and then give them the unique component of having them evolve during the match. So from Bulbasaur to Ivysaur and eventually Venusaur. Would make them a unique component, but given the 3DS' issues with Ice Climbers and the Zelda/Shiek dynamic, would have to be something for Smash 5.

Regardless, count me in as someone who would like an isolated Ivysaur in this game as DLC.

 

[Sonsa]

Loved Ivysaur in Brawl, super fun and felt super unique and weird to play smash with a middle evolution grass Pokemon. Buuut, her returning seems pretty unlikely. It would be pretty weird to have two strong fully evolved starter pokes with Charizard and Greninja and then to have one of each type of starter, Ivysaur, another Kanto starter and middle evolution too...eh, I dunno. Sceptile seems the most likely grass type starter, even Serperior feels like it has more of a shot.

Ivysaur was in Brawl, it certainly has that going for it...but is that all it needs? I guess time will tell. I'd love to play as her again, but ya gatta admit it would be pretty weird. I won't get my hopes up but you can add me to the support list I suppose. Also if there's a Squirtle support around here, same situation for him pretty much.

 

[Braydon]

Loved Ivysaur in Brawl, super fun and felt super unique and weird to play smash with a middle evolution grass Pokemon. Buuut, her returning seems pretty unlikely. It would be pretty weird to have two strong fully evolved starter pokes with Charizard and Greninja and then to have one of each type of starter, Ivysaur, another Kanto starter and middle evolution too...eh, I dunno. Sceptile seems the most likely grass type starter, even Serperior feels like it has more of a shot.

Why do people think sceptile is so likely? He's got kind of a weird body shape and chesnaught is a more modern pokemon than him, it would seem he'd be the favorite for inclusion.

 

[FalKoopa]

Why do people think sceptile is so likely? He's got kind of a weird body shape and chesnaught is a more modern pokemon than him, it would seem he'd be the favorite for inclusion.

ORAS, and he had a prominent role in the anime.

 

[Vsaur]

You know what it doesn't really matter how "unique" a character is because lucas got in not because he was unique but because people wanted him! Same with mewtwo. I think Sakurai is simply trying to make people happy and let them be able to play with there favorite characters, no matter how generic they may be.(Sadly ivysaur really isn't all that popular )

 

[Aetheri]

Why do people think sceptile is so likely? He's got kind of a weird body shape and chesnaught is a more modern pokemon than him, it would seem he'd be the favorite for inclusion.

Sceptile is the most likely candidate for a pokemon newcomer and with ORAS and his new Mega form his, already decently, popular status has improved greatly...his body type isn't really that weird when you consider Charizard has a similar body type, cept with wings...then there's Duck Hunt, ROB, Jigglypuff/Kirby, as well as Ivysaur from Brawl who's bodies are more unconventional when it comes to Smash fighters...There's also the case that many feel another pokemon Generation could use a representative Gen 1 is pretty much all but worn out and with Greninja Gen 6 already has a rep...Generation 3 and 5 are the only ones that did not feature a smash fighter, Zoroark being teh best pick for Gen 5 is an NPC in the game already...increasing Sceptile's chances...
I personally don't feel like there will be any new representatives for pokemon with the release of Mewtwo, unless there is some big announcement for a new pokemon game at E3, specifically a Gen 7 announcement with a totally new pokemon in consideration I feel like the chances are unlikely for another pokemon...

 

[Braydon]

You know what it doesn't really matter how "unique" a character is because lucas got in not because he was unique but because people wanted him! Same with mewtwo. I think Sakurai is simply trying to make people happy and let them be able to play with there favorite characters, no matter how generic they may be.(Sadly ivysaur really isn't all that popular )

Except that lucas is vastly more popular than ivysaur...

 

[Arbok9782]

Except that lucas is vastly more popular than ivysaur...

And I'd argue that Ivysaur is more popular than Roy, who, unless Sakurai is trolling with the patch data, is quite likely to return.

If we are taking the leaked data as gospel, it mentions having slots for four more characters after Mewtwo and Lucas. Of the cast not currently present:

Ice Climbers
Roy
Young Link
Pichu

Snake
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Wolf

That's 8 characters, of which Roy is seeming like a lock to return along with newcomer Ryu. If the ballot doesn't factor into the remaining slots, that's just two more. Possible Ivysaur is one of those, but not very likely... Wolf would be the only safe bet.

Doesn't stop me from hoping that Ivysaur beats the odds and we get him in our game again.

 

[Braydon]

And I'd argue that Ivysaur is more popular than Roy

...

How can you even argue that? This is obviously untrue.

Also the ryu crap is obviously not real... Come on ryu? They won't add a character from another fighting game into smashbros.

 

[Arbok9782]

...

How can you even argue that? This is obviously untrue.

If you approach a general Nintendo fan, I would wager they would, through the extension of Bulbasaur, be much more likely to be familiar with Ivysaur than Roy, who was a secret character in Melee.

Also the ryu crap is obviously not real... Come on ryu? They won't add a character from another fighting game into smashbros.

Time will tell. Capcom already is represented in some DLC with the Mii outfits when Mewtwo came out, while other third parties were not. That further helps give some ammunition that Capcom has a future in more DLC, and Ryu is largely considered with Mega Man their most iconic figure.

 

[Braydon]

If you approach a general Nintendo fan, I would wager they would, through the extension of Bulbasaur, be much more likely to be familiar with Ivysaur than Roy, who was a secret character in Melee.

Being well known and being popular are two entirely different things. Far more people want roy to return. Have you not seen the roy thread?

 

[Arbok9782]

Being well known and being popular are two entirely different things. Far more people want roy to return. Have you not seen the roy thread?

Fair enough, I was talking in terms of character recognition.

 

[Xevious 1]

If there is a supporter list, I'd like to be on it. Ivysaur is a cool character and I support all the cut characters making a return (Wolf, Ice Climbers, Roy, Snake, and Ivysaur)

 

[Braydon]

Actually I think I over estimated his chances, the thing is he wasn't very popular in brawl, and knowing that you'd assume he wouldn't sell very well as DLC.

 

[Deleted member]

Everyone here wants him back simply because he was in Brawl if he wasn't in Brawl no one would enough think of Ivysaur

True enough, but there are several Smash characters that fit into this boat already, in a more a general sense. For example characters like R.O.B., Mr. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, Lucas, Ness, Captain Falcon, Marth, Roy, Ice Climbers--before appearing in Smash Bros, these characters were much less known and nobody expected them to be in the game. But now they all have tons of fans. And thus it happened that many of us became fans of Ivysaur and we want him back in Smash; is that so hard to comprehend?

 

[Aetheri]

True enough, but there are several Smash characters that fit into this boat already, in a more a general sense. For example characters like R.O.B., Mr. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, Lucas, Ness, Captain Falcon, Marth, Roy, Ice Climbers--before appearing in Smash Bros, this characters were much less known and nobody expected them to be in the game. But now they all have tons of fans. And thus it happened that many of us became fans of Ivysaur and we want him back in Smash; is that so hard to comprehend?

Except those characters you listed stand as the best representatives for their series (except for maybe Lucas and Roy), where as Ivysaur pales in comparison to many many other pokemon characters...the only character that really fits similarly to this is Sheik, who is Zelda's alter ego...Sheik has the edge over Ivysaur as she was present in both melee and brawl....whereas Ivysaur was just in Brawl
Don't get me wrong I'm not wholly against Ivysaur returning but as far as DLC goes there are plenty of more deserving candidates and as for pokemon reps, a newcomer is a lot more likely as we already got Mewtwo returning (I doubt we'll get anymore pokemon reps regardless because of Mewtwo's return, at least not until the next game)

 

[Arbok9782]

Actually I think I over estimated his chances, the thing is he wasn't very popular in brawl, and knowing that you'd assume he wouldn't sell very well as DLC.

Considering your first post in the thread was saying that Ivysaur wasn't unique at all, I don't think anyone assumed you thought he had any chance to begin with.

True enough, but there are several Smash characters that fit into this boat already, in a more a general sense. For example characters like R.O.B., Mr. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, Lucas, Ness, Captain Falcon, Marth, Roy, Ice Climbers--before appearing in Smash Bros, this characters were much less known and nobody expected them to be in the game. But now they all have tons of fans. And thus it happened that many of us became fans of Ivysaur and we want him back in Smash; is that so hard to comprehend?

Very true, Jigglypuff would be one of the best examples here. He is, by most counts, far from a main player in the Pokémon franchise. He has been with us for every Smash game, though, and seems almost more ingrained in this franchise then his own at this point and would feel odd to lose him.

Even with Ivysaur on the low end of the tier totem pole last time, I still enjoyed playing with him and would jump at the chance to play as him again.

 

[Deleted member]

Hmm, wolf is still a semi clone. Not a clone but he uses fox as a template so he is a semi clone.

I wish we could just put the whole 'clone' issue to rest and realize that being a clone is more of a spectrum than a checkbox. Luigi in Smash 64 was the first 'clone' but even then his moves' properties were tweaked and there were other differences too. But that didn't really stop him from being a copy character of Mario overall. The clones in Melee were most similar to this type of clone, just tweaked properties (though Luigi started to become more of a 'semi-clone'). In Brawl, Lucas and Wolf were unique in that their base character and special moves were clonish, but had virtually all unique standard attacks. Still a semi-clone though, but farther away from 'clone' on the spectrum. Farthest away would Lucario and Ike, who are so far away from 'clone' on the spectrum that they really are more characters inspired by Mewtwo and Roy respectively.

 

[Vsaur]

Except that lucas is vastly more popular than ivysaur...

I know! It said that at the end of the post!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I wish we could just put the whole 'clone' issue to rest and realize that being a clone is more of a spectrum than a checkbox. Luigi in Smash 64 was the first 'clone' but even then his moves' properties were tweaked and there were other differences too. But that didn't really stop him from being a copy character of Mario overall. The clones in Melee were most similar to this type of clone, just tweaked properties (though Luigi started to become more of a 'semi-clone'). In Brawl, Lucas and Wolf were unique in that their base character and special moves were clonish, but had virtually all unique standard attacks. Still a semi-clone though, but farther away from 'clone' on the spectrum. Farthest away would Lucario and Ike, who are so far away from 'clone' on the spectrum that they really are more characters inspired by Mewtwo and Roy respectively.

Lucas is a semi-clone, and Wolf is not. Why? Because Lucas has the same height and weight values as Ness, but Wolf has slightly different ones. So basically Lucas is on the edge of not being a semi-clone, and Wolf is on the edge of being one.

 

[Deleted member]

I really wonder how could work out with a size tone-down. . Y'know, i like Ivysaur too but there's room for more fun in here.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I really wonder how could work out with a size tone-down. . Y'know, i like Ivysaur too but there's room for more fun in here.

Because Vanusaur isn't fun at all. Also, Venusaur doesn't have Ivysaur's mobility, so I don't feel he would work, toned down in size or not.

 

[Deleted member]

Because Vanusaur isn't fun at all. Also, Venusaur doesn't have Ivysaur's mobility, so I don't feel he would work, toned down in size or not.

Could be a fine case of Ganon-ization!