Ivysaur As A DLC! - VOTE NOW FOR HIM IN THE SMASH BALLOT!!

[Grizzlpaw]

I'll support anything that has to do with Ivysaur

 

[Duplighost]

To be totally honest, I feel like PM Ivysaur is as perfect as Ivy could be. I know that Sakurai (wrongly) got rid of most of the tether recoveries but when used right they're oh so good

Wait, what tether recoveries did he get rid of?
I believe these characters can tether recover, but I don't think Sakurai got rid of them for any one character otherwise.

About Ivysaur, I do not see it happening, but I wouldn't mind it. Although, a fully evolved Pokémon would be more feasible.

 

[Kevandre]

Wait, what tether recoveries did he get rid of?
I believe these characters can tether recover, but I don't think Sakurai got rid of them for any one character otherwise.

About Ivysaur, I do not see it happening, but I wouldn't mind it. Although, a fully evolved Pokémon would be more feasible.

I guess that's it, actually. I'm probably lumping the glide removal in that somehow in my brain.

But it really is sad what they did to Olimar...

Actually, wasn't 's up special a tether? I'm trying to remember, but I think it was... It isn't now, though her Z Air exists

 

[Duplighost]

I guess that's it, actually. I'm probably lumping the glide removal in that somehow in my brain.

But it really is sad what they did to Olimar...

Actually, wasn't 's up special a tether? I'm trying to remember, but I think it was... It isn't now, though her Z Air exists

You know, I can't quite remember either.
I've never really liked Olimar, so I don't mind much.

It's a good thing glide has been removed though.

 

[Kevandre]

You know, I can't quite remember either.
I've never really liked Olimar, so I don't mind much.

It's a good thing glide has been removed though.

I liked Olimar a lot in Brawl but I don't like him at all in 4...

I agree, glide being gone is totally fine. I'm probably just combining them together for some reason.

 

[Twin Shot]

I support Ivysaur's return.
I want Ivysaur back instead of the other's in his evolution line. I want to catch em all!

You can add me to the supporting list, if that is still happening. Coming into this thread,

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

Wait, what tether recoveries did he get rid of?
I believe these characters can tether recover, but I don't think Sakurai got rid of them for any one character otherwise.

About Ivysaur, I do not see it happening, but I wouldn't mind it. Although, a fully evolved Pokémon would be more feasible.

Ice Climbers had a tether in Brawl but didn't return. Same with Lucas.

Sheik's chain was a tether in Brawl but that was changed to burst grenade.

ZSS couldn't z-air in Brawl but had a horizontal and vertical tether in her side and up specials, respectively. I think she can only z-air in Smash 4, since up B was changed. Not sure if she can grab the ledge with side B.

Yoshi still can't tether, even though he does it in Yoshi's Story just fine. At least the eggs' colors are the same as the Yoshi producing/throwing them. I digress.

Anyway, Ivysaur was proof that a character didn't need to be mostly bipedal to be a playable character. That's huge as far as significance/uniqueness goes. Unfortunately Ivysaur by itself was an awful character, performing worse than Ganondorf in every MU (and even losing to Ganondorf). Despite that, in my opinion, Ivysaur had the best dash attack and n-air.

DLC isn't likely to be considered for Ivysaur. It isn't popular or relevant enough.

 

[Dre89]

Anyway, Ivysaur was proof that a character didn't need to be mostly bipedal to be a playable character. That's huge as far as significance/uniqueness goes. Unfortunately Ivysaur by itself was an awful character, performing worse than Ganondorf in every MU (and even losing to Ganondorf). Despite that, in my opinion, Ivysaur had the best dash attack and n-air.

DLC isn't likely to be considered for Ivysaur. It isn't popular or relevant enough.

That's not entirely true. Ivy did well against heavies for the most part. He even did sort of ok against Snake. Ironically, his best matchup was probably Charizard, as bullet seed absolutely wrecks him.

I doubt we'll get Ivy as DLC. The only chance is if they release vets and go with Ivy for the sake of having a grass starter.

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

That's not entirely true. Ivy did well against heavies for the most part. He even did sort of ok against Snake. Ironically, his best matchup was probably Charizard, as bullet seed absolutely wrecks him.

I doubt we'll get Ivy as DLC. The only chance is if they release vets and go with Ivy for the sake of having a grass starter.

You didn't play Ivysaur, I did though, mained him (well, the Pokemon Trainer) for the first 2 years of Brawl's life before switching to R.O.B. Ivysaur lost hard to Charizard because of extra knockback from Charizard's amazing f-air and b-air that it takes due to the type effectiveness mechanic, making it easier for Charizard to gimp it. Heavies did well against Ivysaur for having superior front-facing options (Ganon, Captain Falcon, Samus, Charizard lol), chain grabs (Dedede), or just outright being overall better (Wario, every other heavyweight). Ivysaur's pivot grab was cool but that didn't help it much. Damage-racking was difficult since it involved Ivy having to either chase or make someone come after it, which ran its clock, and when it got tired it couldn't reap the benefits of whatever damage it amassed, if any. Bullet Seed was Ivy's way of racking up quick damage on pretty much the entire cast by the way, not sure how Charizard stands out. If he had some crazy combo out of it I could see what you mean. I guess it's easier to land the move on heavies but again, ~30% and then what?

 

[Dre89]

You didn't play Ivysaur, I did though, mained him (well, the Pokemon Trainer) for the first 2 years of Brawl's life before switching to R.O.B. Ivysaur lost hard to Charizard because of extra knockback from Charizard's amazing f-air and b-air that it takes due to the type effectiveness mechanic, making it easier for Charizard to gimp it. Heavies did well against Ivysaur for having superior front-facing options (Ganon, Captain Falcon, Samus, Charizard lol), chain grabs (Dedede), or just outright being overall better (Wario, every other heavyweight). Ivysaur's pivot grab was cool but that didn't help it much. Damage-racking was difficult since it involved Ivy having to either chase or make someone come after it, which ran its clock, and when it got tired it couldn't reap the benefits of whatever damage it amassed, if any. Bullet Seed was Ivy's way of racking up quick damage on pretty much the entire cast by the way, not sure how Charizard stands out. If he had some crazy combo out of it I could see what you mean. I guess it's easier to land the move on heavies but again, ~30% and then what?

How do you know whether I played Ivy or not

For the record, I did. Heaps

I find it weird that you claim to have mained Ivy, but didn't mention nair and bair, which are his best and second best moves respectively. Reversed nairs are like half of Ivy's metagame. Bair and dtilt are what let him zone heavies because he could compete with their range. Pivot grab is good but it's mostly for catching dashes and punishing landings.

If you think bullet seed was Ivy's main way of racking up damage on the entire cast then I'm guessing you never played people who knew how to DI. Good players rarely used bullet seed unless it was b-reversed out of a falling nair trip because most characters can DI the pop up and punish you. There's no way you would get 30% from a bullet seed on someone who knew how to DI/SDI. It was legit on heavies because they couldn't DI out of it as easily. Zard in particular gets wrecked by it because not only is he heavy, but the lowered knockback against grass moves made him stay in it longer. You could actually do over 30% with it to Zard.

Nair strings, specifically reverse nair strings are how Ivy racks up damage. Things like like nair OOS, double nair, nair-b reversed bullet seed, nair-fair, nair-pivot grab etc. Bullet seed is a gimmick move than only works on bad players and heavies.

I forgot about Wario, and yeah he loses to Wario pretty convincingly. But D3, DK, Bowser, Dorf and to an extent Snake (he still loses slightly) are all good MUs for Ivy.

 

[Arcadenik]

Ivysaur was fun to play in Brawl. I loved using Bullet Seed. It was awesome. Razor Leaf was good but a bit slow and weak. I loved Vine Whip... she had the longest tether recovery compared to Olimar and Zero Suit Samus.

I wish she and Squirtle didn't get cut. I would have shipped Ivysaur and Duck Hunt Dog as quadrupled best friends if both were playable in the same game. My dream Pokemon roster would be:

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

How do you know whether I played Ivy or not

For the record, I did. Heaps

I find it weird that you claim to have mained Ivy, but didn't mention nair and bair, which are his best and second best moves respectively. Reversed nairs are like half of Ivy's metagame. Bair and dtilt are what let him zone heavies because he could compete with their range. Pivot grab is good but it's mostly for catching dashes and punishing landings.

If you think bullet seed was Ivy's main way of racking up damage on the entire cast then I'm guessing you never played people who knew how to DI. Good players rarely used bullet seed unless it was b-reversed out of a falling nair trip because most characters can DI the pop up and punish you. There's no way you would get 30% from a bullet seed on someone who knew how to DI/SDI. It was legit on heavies because they couldn't DI out of it as easily. Zard in particular gets wrecked by it because not only is he heavy, but the lowered knockback against grass moves made him stay in it longer. You could actually do over 30% with it to Zard.

Nair strings, specifically reverse nair strings are how Ivy racks up damage. Things like like nair OOS, double nair, nair-b reversed bullet seed, nair-fair, nair-pivot grab etc. Bullet seed is a gimmick move than only works on bad players and heavies.

I forgot about Wario, and yeah he loses to Wario pretty convincingly. But D3, DK, Bowser, Dorf and to an extent Snake (he still loses slightly) are all good MUs for Ivy.

I didn't say I mained only Ivysaur technically; I mained the Pokemon Trainer. Anyway I mentioned n-air above, admitting it's one of his best moves. B-air is overrated though, doing pathetic damage (5%) and not reaching very far, losing to other disjoints and strong enough projectiles. If you played Ivysaur and tried to wall people out with b-air, you weren't playing it correctly. By the time you got in enough damage for a kill, Ivysaur was too tired and you'd have probably switched to Charizard to go for it. It's a nice move to beat out other aerials but it doesn't stop juggles the way n-air did. Ivysaur's floatiness and poor aerial mobility further accentuated b-air's uselessness. He didn't zone anyone with it; like Mario's f-tilt it was a mere "get out of my face (back?)" tool that was again beaten by better disjoints like Donkey Kong's b-air. D-tilt is also a poor "zoning" move against most heavies since most of them have actually really good d-tilts themselves on top of not-so-bad grab ranges (except Bowser and maybe DK). Anyone who knows how to shield will surmount Ivy's d-tilt, trust me.

I played people who knew how to DI, DIing Bullet Seed though is a lot like DIing Farore's Wind in Smash 4; the timing was difficult and the attack had to have been anticipated. So of course if you're spamming bullet seed you'll get punished hard yeah, but you answered your own problem by bringing up b-reverse mixups later in another paragraph. Bullet Seed was DESIGNED to rack up damage, to not make use of it is to not know how to play Ivysaur. No other move in its kit did more damage in one setting. And while Charizard did get hit harder by the move damage-wise, that doesn't erase his superior normals and the fact that he gimped Ivy quite well.

DK beats Ivy for having greater mobility, damage per hit, and Spinning Kong to escape Ivy's "combos" as well as a disjoint in Hand Slap to pressure him in close-quarters and mid-range. Bowser I would argue goes even. He and Ivysaur suck at landing (Koopa Hopping kinda patches that though) and are easily gimped, and while Bowser's normal attacks are better, Ivy's reach farther. In the air, Ivysaur wins if he's facing away from Bowser (if facing forward, Bowser's f-air will beat out anything Ivy can do) but on the ground in close quarters Bowser has the edge with a superior jab, grab release ****, f-tilt, and Whirling Fortress OoS. D3 can chain grab Ivysaur, wall him out with b-air, and gimp him. Ivy loses at mid range to Dedede's f-tilt and d-tilt. Only thing Ivysaur has in the MU over D3 is n-air strings, not having an answer to Razor Leaf harassment, and aerial mobility (additionally D3 is probably the easiest character in the game to hit with Poison Powder). Ganondorf beats Ivysaur in every sphere outside of ground mobility, which is patched by dash attack. Snake definitely wins, only problem is he can't land well. Like with Dedede, dash attack is another way to punish a bad landing on Snake's part. Extra knockback from his explosives makes this matchup really difficult for Ivy survival-wise (which is a shame since it actually has good weight), combat-wise n-air strings work really well and harassing a recovering Snake with Razor Leaf, f-air, and b-air is handy but that's it; Snake's normal attacks are all much more rewarding and easier to connect.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Olimar was changed so much because of the 3Ds. I only suggested Ivysaur's up special be changed because I read something that said that the tether recovery wasn't the best. (Which somehow made him Olimar, except worse.)

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

Olimar was changed so much because of the 3Ds. I only suggested Ivysaur's up special be changed because I read something that said that the tether recovery wasn't the best. (Which somehow made him Olimar, except worse.)

I have to say I disagree with Ivysaur being a worse Olimar. Olimar is of course the better character overall, but they only share a few things: a tether (Ivy's is actually better than Olimar's in terms of reliability; the only area in which Vine Whip trails behind Pikmin Chain is start-up), leaves/bulbs, side B spam as a decent portion of their metagames, and a multi-hit n-air. They're otherwise entirely unique. Olimar isn't better because he outclasses Ivy, it's because he has a heavy-hitting, low-lag, far-reaching arsenal of moves. I mean, I can see where lines could be drawn aesthetically, but outside of that I never felt Olimar was a smooth transition from Ivysaur.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah I didn't think so either. But you could still use my idea as a down special. Just no jumping. (Pictures Ivysaur doing the flip jump.) Although something that gives him more recovery options would help him. I think. I'm not the most familiar with Ivysaur. Which is why he needs to be DLC so we can be reacquainted.

 

[Wiley]

Sceptile makes more sense as a grass type starter candidate.

I'm all for Ivy coming back though. But I liked playing as squirtle the most of the three


and he's not looking like he's coming back.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The situation looks pretty bleak for Roy and Young Link as well. But their supporters haven't given up so why should we.

(And I would like to see Sceptile try to mimic Ivysaur)

 

[Kevandre]

I voted for Ivysaur today. Dunno if it'll make a difference but still. Doing my part. At least I got Lucas... Yisss

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I like how I have attracted almost everyone on this thread except the thread owner. @ BoN~ Come on! Help keep your thread going. Ivysaur supporters may be few and far between but we can still make a difference.

 

[PhazonCorruptedSquirtle]

When the fighter ballot opened I had like 5 million ideas bouncing around in my head, but I filled out one for Ivysaur first (even though squirtle is my favorite pokemon ever). I loved his moveset and would love to see him come back.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Cool! Do pop in on the Squirtle thread as well. I'm trying to revive that one too, and it kinda takes more than one person. But while you are here, what changes do you think will be made to Ivysaur. (I won't criticize you because it's not what "Project M" did.)

 

[PhazonCorruptedSquirtle]

I will be sure to do that! I really like what PM did with Ivysaur's synthesis, solarbeam, etc. But I couldn't see Nintendo doing anything like that. I really don't know what changes they could make, but anything involving his vinewhip would be great <3

 

[HallowKaz]

@ HallowKaz

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

@ HallowKaz

Um... Wut?

 

[HallowKaz]

They asked for everyone's Twitters for those who support.

 

[Rockaphin]

I support, Ivysaur was a fun character in Brawl.

 

[PokémonSpears]

I loved Ivysaur back in Brawl. I think it is very unique, a different kind of fighter. I think I really like him more than Charizard. Charizard alone doesn't excited me that much. Pokémon Trainer was perfection.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yay! More supporters that won't be added to the OP because Bon~ hasn't been here since January 8!

So ignoring Project M, what changes do you think would be made to Ivysaur.

 

[neoREgen]

I loved Ivysaur. Just wished I could play as him and not Charizard. Squirtle was cool, too... but Ivysaur... he was the draw for me.

 

[Reila]

I loved Ivysaur. Just wished I could play as him and not Charizard. Squirtle was cool, too... but Ivysaur... he was the draw for me.

The Smash Ivysaur was not a "him".

Also, I like she far more than Charizard, but at this point I think there are more than enough Pokémon in the roster :/

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The Smash Ivysaur was not a "him".

Also, I like she far more than Charizard, but at this point I think there are more than enough Pokémon in the roster :/

I like her.
Also, If you listen to Ivysaur's voice, (The only way to tell gender in Smash Pokémon.) you can tell that it is obviously masculine. So unless he has a feminine voice in other languages, Ivysaur is a boy.

 

[neoREgen]

The Smash Ivysaur was not a "him".

Also, I like she far more than Charizard, but at this point I think there are more than enough Pokémon in the roster :/

Ugh. So, on a previous post, I caught myself and referred to it as "it". That's just awkward and not how I speak. **** English and its gender pronouns.

 

[Kevandre]

I like her.
Also, If you listen to Ivysaur's voice, (The only way to tell gender in Smash Pokémon.) you can tell that it is obviously masculine. So unless he has a feminine voice in other languages, Ivysaur is a boy.

She's got the yellow seed which makes her female. It's kinda hard to see in game (Like Lucina's brand in her eye) but it's there

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Male Ivysaur

Female Ivysaur

They are the same. You must be thinking of Venusaur. But that is not what this thread is about. This thread is about the awesomeness of Ivysaur. I think she/he/it is going to be awesome. (assuming that she/he/it gets in.)

 

[Deleted member]

I have voted for Ivysaur. What a beautiful creature.

 

[Vsaur]

I couldn't care less if Ivysaur was DLC or not, but if you think "X series needs Y number of reps" or "X series can only have Y amount of reps", you're stupid. Sakurai has proven several times in the past that number of reps mean jack **** to him.

Im pretty sure he/she meant if mario can have seven reps pokemon can have seven aswell

 

[Vsaur]

Add me to the supporters list

 

[Braydon]

Honestly ivysaur is not that interesting a fighter, most his attacks are fairly generic, bullet seed is about the only really original attack he had.

 

[Nauzgo]

SUPPORTERS
( Comment To Add You c: )

Comment:D Ivysaur is so unique that it has to come back. Lets give a **** on how many pokemon should be in there or not.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly ivysaur is not that interesting a fighter, most his attacks are fairly generic, bullet seed is about the only really original attack he had.

I guess every fighter that isn't Mega Man is generic then.