it's gonna be he** for some people when we get online

[red stone]

just think about it.

the skill ceiling on melee is high and takes numerous hours of practice to get to the level that many of us in here are at. you may have forgotten this, but there are still many smashers out there that have never heard of advanced techniques or mindgames or any of that stuff.

if the engine for brawl is even similar, we will no doubtedly crush all the nubs in our way.

there are many people out there that have the idea in their heads that they are great or at least decent at melee without knowledge of the higher metagame. unfortunately for them, we will have to crush their dreams.

there's going to be a lot of people who will be highly frustrated that they can't even come close to matching some of the people online.

not only that. just think about how much practice we have accumulated. it's probably much higher than that of a casual smasher. for them to even fathom beating us, they would need to catch up on a lot of practice which i don't think many of them can gain in a short amount of time.


this will probably cause the largest schism among gameplayers ever imagined. those of the elite on one side and those that are not on the other

there will probably be a lot of reports on glitching as well. just think if you've never seen it before, someone shine canceling, wavedashing, edge hogging, short hopping and all that jazz. add all of this up, and to them, you look like you're going at superspeed with l-canceling. however, we know the truth to all this and we will leave them in the dark in self pity after they just suffered a humiliating defeat after smacktalking.

 

[Mr.GAW]

1. Hell is not censored.

2. Brawl is not Melee.

3. Competitive Smashers are the minority.

4. There may be rankings- and thus a type of rivals mode where you only face people of your skill level.

5. The n00bs can just quit and start a new game if they so choose.

 

[Rash]

Err...how about online actually benefiting lower players by allowing them to practice against the big boys?

I mean, people who are frustrated by losing online to others who are potentially better shouldn't even be playing in the first place. Playing online in pretty much any game guarantees that you'll be facing off against people on both sides of the spectrum; such a thing should be a standard expectation. The more people expect this kind of thing, the more tolerant they'll eventually become of their situation and of the idea that they have a long way to go. Because of this, they'll progress more as players in the end.

 

[Mr.GAW]

Rash, unless the lower players knew what all the advance techniques were, they would just think they were hacking or glitching or cheating.

People aren't as open minded as one would hope.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Rash, unless the lower players knew what all the advance techniques were, they would just think they were hacking or glitching or cheating.

People aren't as open minded as one would hope.

To quote Dope

If you are directly ontop of someone you can Dsmash them and they go up. Incase you didn't know. Most people don't because most people sux

That sums it up. Most people sucks, and I agree with the thread creator, the noobs are gonna have their hopes and dreams crushed in brawl. NO matter how different it is from melee, itll be smash. And someone who has put hours and hours every week practicing melee will naturally gain skill much quicker than some gay nub in brawl.

Hopefully the advanced techs from melee will stay, and some NEW ones will pop up. so not only will we have SHFFL and WD and pulsewalk and waveshine and all that, but like some even cooler stuff, ontop of the existing techs.

Thats my dream for brawl, everything melee is, and more. Don't delete what has proven to be brilliant (wavedash) but rather focus on creating something just as good, or better.

Crawling will probably give us some funky new tricks

 

[Mr.GAW]

Dylan, just curious, what percentage of Melee players do you think SHFFLC and Wavedash and chainthrow? I'd say at most 5%. Hell, I bet not even 10% of melee players short hop and tech.

The noobs aren't going to be crushed, because for the most part, they will just be playing with other noobs.

They might be pissed when they come across somebody who can actually 4 stock them with advance techniques, but I don't think that'll happen too frequently.

If anyone will suffer, I say it will be the advance players. They are the ones who will never be able to play a random match and find someone they can learn from or even someone who can compete with them.

I do agree that most people suck tho.

 

[Loooooni]

id laugh if saw someone using advanced techs get 4 stocked by someone who doesnt know what the heck the advanced player is doing

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

The question is: Why should we care if they complain?

If they suck,they suck.But if they are wise and seek help from those who are better than them,good for them.

We get to beat noobs,we get to help noobs to become professional.It's a win/win situation.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Dylan, just curious, what percentage of Melee players do you think SHFFLC and Wavedash and chainthrow? I'd say at most 5%. Hell, I bet not even 10% of melee players short hop and tech.

Ummm, 10%? I just don't count the rest of the players as players. I see them more as animals.

The noobs aren't going to be crushed, because for the most part, they will just be playing with other noobs.

Till someone crushes them and they realize how much they suck. I see it happen all the time online on kaillera, like the other day

noob : Dude.. you're *****' good.
me : thanks its why Im in pps
noob : Dude, you're owning me
noob: everytime I try to come back you step on me >.>
noob: every friggin time that move!
noob: ur too good. *leaves*

They might be pissed when they come across somebody who can actually 4 stock them with advance techniques, but I don't think that'll happen too frequently.

I don't have anything to say I just like multi quoting, it looks badass.

If anyone will suffer, I say it will be the advance players. They are the ones who will never be able to play a random match and find someone they can learn from or even someone who can compete with them.

Cant you exchange friend codes and set up matches with people you know online? If so then that + smashboards = problem solved.

I do agree that most people suck tho.

nooo no no.. most people sux. The spelling is quite important for the hilarity!

 

[copper90]

@Op - Who are you?

But I'm sure there will be a way to play with your skill level, and not be uneven all of the time.

 

[Mr.GAW]

All I'm trying to say here is that noobs will not go through hell trying to get into a game where they won't get crushed, because there will be way more other noobs than competitive smashers. The only problem I think will be in online is lag, and there won't be TOO much of that.

Yes, you will surely be able to set things up with friend codes so you can play with other smashers of your level. I guess nobody is really going to suffer.

And I'll remember it's sux next time.

Most people sux. sux. Sounds good.

 

[Fanewgie]

I don't think playing online will be so bad, on the sole fact that it was said that they won't be implimenting a ranking system (I think, don't quote me).

In other words, most people have no reason to go online and bash around random nooblets all day long when you don't even get any hint of recognation for it aside from own personal satisfaction, if you even get satisfaction out of it, which most serious players will not.

Most people will only play online through some kind of friends (foes?) list so they can play against people with a guarenteed leveled playing field. And even if the playing field isn't so level, you're at least playing against someone you know, and have mutual respect with, so you can learn from each other and get better, which you just won't get against a random match against a random stranger nooblet or pro.

 

[Rash]

Why does it even matter?

The pros don't need to play random matches with other people unless they really want to. I mean, why not just get all the pros' friend codes from SmashBoards and just play with them? I'm sure a lot of the greater players would enjoy that more anyway, considering they'd be able to play people from across the country that they normally wouldn't see at a tourney.

There's always going to be an option for people to play with who they want to play with. That pretty much creates a "no excuse" situation for both sides. Neither should complain about who they play with when they both most likely already have access to people with whom they can play comfortably.

The "random play" feature in Nintendo's online games is there with that expectancy that I brought up before; you're playing random people, so you should never expect any particular battling scenario. The thing should have a warning, for Christ's sake.

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

Everyone will adapt and learn from there mistakes... well i hope.

Right now, i am the level of a level 11 computer lol. Yeah, weak, but I'm going to use online to grow.

 

[Onifrio]

If there are so many more noobs than pros...wont the noobs be fighting other noobs most of the time?

I also use the word pro very losely. Just because you can wavedash and L-cancel doesnt mean your pro. Just above average.

 

[psicicle]

Well, to get your answer look at all the **** complaints about snaking in mario kart DS. Everywhere I see *****ing about snaking, and how people "refuse to play snakers" because apparently it doesn't take skill. Apparently the devs didn't intend it (although I don;t know why they think that), or it isn't honorable or something. I guess it's also unfair somehow if both players snake.

I predict a surge of people refusing to play "wavedashers" (the most overrated tech IMO, not to say it's not useful but that's the first thing most new guys think of when they think adv. techs). And then there may be the people who decide to try to beat these "wavedashers" at their own game.

I really hope there is a ratings system or something (although there will be a problem with people cracking the system or using actual cheats) so that all the people who decide to boycott wavedashing can just stay in some separate room.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I predict a surge of people refusing to play "wavedashers"

reminds me of a post someone made in my will brawl suck thread about going to a school tournament and he mained luigi and when he started.. doing what luigi does best everyone was like... ''OMG WE GOT A WAVEDASHER HERE!''

I predict we'll see that kind of ignorance online aswell...

and YES I AGREE... wavedashing is soooooooo friggin' overrated. It has several uses, its good to mix in to your movement to help precision in spacing and to enhance mindgames with new movement techniques. Its not friggin hard to do, yet scrubs always find a way to complain.

Doesnt suprise me, on online ssb64, people complain... about.. GRABS.

 

[180OP]

just think about it.

the skill ceiling on melee is high and takes numerous hours of practice to get to the level that many of us in here are at. you may have forgotten this, but there are still many smashers out there that have never heard of advanced techniques or mindgames or any of that stuff.

if the engine for brawl is even similar, we will no doubtedly crush all the nubs in our way.

there are many people out there that have the idea in their heads that they are great or at least decent at melee without knowledge of the higher metagame. unfortunately for them, we will have to crush their dreams.

there's going to be a lot of people who will be highly frustrated that they can't even come close to matching some of the people online.

not only that. just think about how much practice we have accumulated. it's probably much higher than that of a casual smasher. for them to even fathom beating us, they would need to catch up on a lot of practice which i don't think many of them can gain in a short amount of time.


this will probably cause the largest schism among gameplayers ever imagined. those of the elite on one side and those that are not on the other

there will probably be a lot of reports on glitching as well. just think if you've never seen it before, someone shine canceling, wavedashing, edge hogging, short hopping and all that jazz. add all of this up, and to them, you look like you're going at superspeed with l-canceling. however, we know the truth to all this and we will leave them in the dark in self pity after they just suffered a humiliating defeat after smacktalking.

1. People learn.

2. There were probably people who have never been noticed by the competitive smash community but are high level players themselves. Maybe there is a kid in Taiwan who wasn't aware of the online community but is the best smasher in the world theoretically. Online brawl will bring to light all this hidden talent.

 

[JesterBox]

Pros will probbaly just play each other a lot by challenging people on forums. Search up that Clan thread I made

getting beat badly could inspire as well as crush dreams. I mean why do you play compettivly? because you know that others are better than you and you wish to beat them.

psicicle, If people refuse to play that way then they are just close minded. They need to see the smash community and either embrace it or be left to wallow in ignorance.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Maybe there is a kid in Taiwan who wasn't aware of the online community but is the best smasher in the world theoretical

Ken would beat him. hands down.

 

[psicicle]

Well, considering that one of the most important things to becoming a good smasher is experience, I doubt that.

Again, look at mario kart DS, search gamefaqs or something for snaking and you'll find pages of complaining and arguing against somebody who isn't actually there.

 

[JesterBox]

Well, considering that one of the most important things to becoming a good smasher is experience, I doubt that.

Again, look at mario kart DS, search gamefaqs or something for snaking and you'll find pages of complaining and arguing against somebody who isn't actually there.

I play Mario Kart and seeing snaking made me start snaking, i can only imagine that a percentage of others have done the same

 

[red stone]

yeah but melee is more than just snaking. there are quite a few techniques you have to learn. i would say you would have to practice at least 2 weeks to become competent

 

[180OP]

Ken would beat him. hands down.

How do you know? You or Ken haven't even played/met/seen the guy, which was exactly my point.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

How do you know? You or Ken haven't even played/met/seen the guy, which was exactly my point.

Ken still wins. why?

Well, considering that one of the most important things to becoming a good smasher is experience,

gg.

yeah but melee is more than just snaking. there are quite a few techniques you have to learn. i would say you would have to practice at least 2 weeks to become competent

Yes, and learning the techniques is only the beginning, and IMO the easy part. Developing your intellectual game and learning to read playstyles and DI patterns and tech patters and whatnot is the complex stuff.

 

[The Hypnotist]

Well I personally see myself as "average" but to "newbs" I'm seen as some sort of god, "WOW! Peach and Doc must be TOP TIER." I will be online plsying the people here, but sometimes I'll be just doing some random matches, and newbs will get OWNED my me, and they'll have to deal with it. It'll be a shame for them too, they do 5 matches that are close and then they get owned by me.

Quit talking abour this ranking system, we all know it's not likely to happen, so don't get yourr hopes up. But online play will be interesting, there are some approaches that advanced players have problems with, yet alone newbs.

He's SHLing, what do I do?!
He's Pill Rushing, what do I do?!
He's Waveshinning, what do I do?!
Ice Climbers faster than Fox, WTF??!?!?!?!

Like somebody else said I look forward to helping other players get better, just like I do now. But like someone said, this may be Brawl, a different game, but it is Smash. And we will be DOMINATING the online game. If we all just did random, our records would be amazing. But there aren't too many of us, however there are enough of us for people to get annoyed, just like Snakers in MKDS. Tthe "OMG SO CHEAP" crap is inevitable, so get ready to deal with it. And it won't be for just complex stuff like good shuffling, I play casual players that get pissed when I just edge hog or L-Cancel. I'm gonna be having a ton of fun owning some newbs, but at the same time getting better because of you guys.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Tthe "OMG SO CHEAP" crap is inevitable, so get ready to deal with it

Like I said before, it already exists on ssb64 online. usually grabs are cheap apparantly. Scrubs gotta find SOMETHING to ***** about, eh?

getting grabbed is the problem

 

[Empy]

Hmm.. I could see myself getting owned by the real pro's, but if it really feels that bad, I'ld just go to some really noobish game and laugh at all the "wtf was that" on a wavedash and see how they think your insane when you jump of a platform during edgeguarding. Btw, I think edgehogging will give us pileholes off bull, I remember my friends complaining as I picked it up on singleplayer already after a "very hard" cpu pulled it on me. But, no matter how many complain, there are still LOADS of SSBM players even now and after 5-6 years, all they will think about is getting good at Brawl... right?? *dreams on*

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

THe thing about edgehogging.. is that it was named by the creators, and you get bonus points for doing it. That's the funniest part.

 

[The Hypnotist]

Well... yes and now... some would argue that edge hogging was meant to be when people were both going for the edge and one person happened to "hog" the edge. It doens't mean they expected people to WD off the edge and hardly beat their oppenent to the edge. Don't get the wrong idea, I'm all for it, I'm just saying I'm sure they didn't expect people WDing to grab the edge in a fast manner.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Well... yes and now... some would argue that edge hogging was meant to be when people were both going for the edge and one person happened to "hog" the edge. It doens't mean they expected people to WD off the edge and hardly beat their oppenent to the edge. Don't get the wrong idea, I'm all for it, I'm just saying I'm sure they didn't expect people WDing to grab the edge in a fast manner.

you can still full jump and grab the edge even if you're a dyslexic cat.

I usually shorthop to edgehog when I have time to, WD - hog when im in a rush.

 

[Lemon Drop]

Let's just hope there is a online mode >.>

Also just throw in some random info about MKDS. I hate people who are against snaking. Snaking is so freakin' easy.

 

[Zodiac]

there will probably be a lot of reports on glitching as well. just think if you've never seen it before, someone shine canceling, wavedashing, edge hogging, short hopping and all that jazz. add all of this up, and to them, you look like you're going at superspeed with l-canceling. however, we know the truth to all this and we will leave them in the dark in self pity after they just suffered a humiliating defeat after smacktalking.

The other day, me and Yatta Dante were smashing in a gaming lounge and a couple people were watching , in the middle of the match one of them asked if we were playing in lightning melee.

Also just throw in some random info about MKDS. I hate people who are against snaking. Snaking is so freakin' easy.

Incredibly easy, But brawl WILL have an online mode, remember the nintendrone interview, they said it would just be stupid not to implement an online mode.

Anyway, the noobs will either throw their controllers and break them, or wonder how somone did that.

 

[Lemon Drop]

The other day, me and Yatta Dante were smashing in a gaming lounge and a couple people were watching , in the middle of the match one of them asked if we were playing in lightning melee.

XD That is pretty funny

 

[The Hypnotist]

you can still full jump and grab the edge even if you're a dyslexic cat.

I usually shorthop to edgehog when I have time to, WD - hog when im in a rush.

Well that's where it gets blurry, they relaly think it's unfair when you WD hog them in a rush. Personally I like WDing but sometimes I question it, here's the main reason why...

Luigi was not designed to be FASTER than Fox. Period. It just doesn't make sense. Make everyone's WD the same length.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

The other day, me and Yatta Dante were smashing in a gaming lounge and a couple people were watching , in the middle of the match one of them asked if we were playing in lightning melee.

NO WAY!!!

that happened to me a month ago, at the bi-weeklies, we rent out a net cafe and they provide us with 4 tvs for an 8$ entry fee, 5$ after 7pm.

Anyhow so sometimes non smashers come by and even play a game, and these kids like.. 14 years old maybe come up to our tv and start talking

'"**** they're good.''
''They're so fast!''
''Ohh theyre playing on lightning mode''

and I just loudly -said- ''You think its lightning melee? LOL ''

yes I pronounced the word lol, pure pwnage style. NO it is not part of my everyday vocabulary.

Luigi was not designed to be FASTER than Fox. Period. It just doesn't make sense. Make everyone's WD the same length.

That's the 3rd time you post that. And I don't like it one bit, WD legnth should depend on traction, thats it.

A lot of **** in melee doesn't make sense. Infact... everything about it. Most specifically a fox having legs arms and hands and firing a gun.


Animals........ INNNNN SPPPPPAAAAACCCCEEE!!!

 

[Paranoid_Android]

I doubt that the teq in Brawl will be exactly the same as in Melee, but we'll still have become used to the things that are likely to carry over: Short hopping, L Cancelling, etc., and will definitely be the first to hop on the teq-train. I wouldn't suspect that it will be immediate, but eventually there will be a clear difference between the competitive and the casual.

 

[The Hypnotist]

NO WAY!!!

that happened to me a month ago, at the bi-weeklies, we rent out a net cafe and they provide us with 4 tvs for an 8$ entry fee, 5$ after 7pm.

Anyhow so sometimes non smashers come by and even play a game, and these kids like.. 14 years old maybe come up to our tv and start talking

'"**** they're good.''
''They're so fast!''
''Ohh theyre playing on lightning mode''

and I just loudly -said- ''You think its lightning melee? LOL ''

yes I pronounced the word lol, pure pwnage style. NO it is not part of my everyday vocabulary.



That's the 3rd time you post that. And I don't like it one bit, WD legnth should depend on traction, thats it.

A lot of **** in melee doesn't make sense. Infact... everything about it. Most specifically a fox having legs arms and hands and firing a gun.


Animals........ INNNNN SPPPPPAAAAACCCCEEE!!!

I know I've said it a lot but we all know the game desginers planed on fox having a gun, they wanted Peach to pull turnips out of the ground, but they sure as hell did not want Luigi to be faster than Fox, I mean come on, think about that for a second, WTF? Fox, Shiek, Marth and Falcon are the fast charcters, Luigi shouldn't beat or even match their speed.

Seriously, how many people can honestly disagree with that staement. Using Luigi's WD to make him faster than Fox is just plain abuse of the engine, they need to fix that.

 

[Sensai]

I think this topic goes along with a lot of other Brawl topics...you know, the 'duh' category. That, or I've completely misunderstood.

Yes, there's going to be a clear distinction between people who know what they're doing and people who don't. This might shock some of you (read: it shouldn't), but that's already here. The only difference with it being online is just that: it'll be online.

People who are frustrated with themselves for losing will have to step up or just get used to it.

Duh. All over everywhere, duh.

 

[psicicle]

why shouldn't luigi be faster? Besides your opinion, there isn't any reason. I enjoy playing the WDing luigi and in my opinion it makes the gam more fun.

Again, who cares what SSBM was "meant" to be if it's more fun the way it is?