It's been a week, so what's the verdict? Buffed, Nerfed, or just different?

[Lazylen]

First off, I'm finding it very hard to make the transition from melee to brawl. Melee's gravity just felt so much tighter (note: falcon's knee was so much easier to land because of this). it was much easier to fastfall.

his eggs now give him a boost, but it also makes them harder to use mid-air. but at the same time, it gives him a recovery.

his dair can now lead into a footstool jump, but it's damage production has been reduced by half.

his throws now connect more, but his tongue is shorter.

DJC is gone, but is that good or bad?


what's the verdict? are the changes on Yoshi for the better or for the worse? Is it just different than melee (well, obviously), staying about the same?

 

[YoshiPwnsAll]

Yoshi is definetly, 100% buffed. He is so much better. He might be the best four person brawler in the game. He's really good 1 v. 1 too. He's for sure one of the most underrated in the game.

 

[Boa]

I tend to think he feels improved, but I can't put my finger on what exactly has been improved..

All I know is that I'm still not used to recovering with Egg Tossing. o.O;

 

[Tanea]

well im have been playing online and i have beaten a lot of peole but i have also lost and they have told me that they can see hoe yoshi is better

 

[Deleted member]

Well at first i thought he was amazingly buffed. No djc was turning out to be fine. Im not sure what it is, but it seems liek something big was nerfed.

 

[Shiri]

I try to think of Melee Yoshi and Brawl Yoshi as two different characters.

It's kinda like 64 Yoshi and Melee Yoshi comparison. They're just two different, I think. At least...that's what it seems like to me. I think the only character to get changed so much between three generations of Smash other than Yoshi is maybe Mario or Pikachu.

Burnt, you may be thinking of downsmash. Or forward air.

 

[bigman40]

cause of his buffs and nerfs, I think he turns out to be a little better than before. Sucks that the downsmash can't give a killing feel to it until your opponent reaches 170.

P.S. Burntsocks, Shiri! we need to play online!

 

[Ekaru]

well im have been playing online and i have beaten a lot of peole but i have also lost and they have told me that they can see hoe yoshi is better

Yeah, Yoshi looks better to me. (I'm one of your victims BTW (Wargreymon on SBR))

I say Yoshi is buffed. I don't think Yoshi was really 'nerfed'. There are disadvantages to no DJC, but it could help with recovery. I think that aspect, along with the new air dodge, makes Yoshi easier to use in that respect when recovering.

I swear Yoshi has longer range and is more powerful, but I'm probably hallucinating... but I think he's better and different. XP

EDIT: I say Yoshi's extremely different too, but mostly in a good way. Though the down air nerf is meh.

 

[Doubletails]

Yoshi is downright different; from64 to melee and from melee to brawl. I guess the biggest nerf on yoshi is not being able to keep the good stuff he had from a smash generation to another.

I think there is a lot of potential in Yoshi's rising aerials.
I've been practicing footstool jumping and i'm sure it could be a good edgeguard in a pinch.
Pivot grabbing is pure love for the Yoshi users; I believe that reversing aerials could also be a perfect combo starter.
Range is extremely comfortable, and there seems to be some extra priority in the mix

All in all, the same shell, a whole new character. Ready to be exploited by their users.

 

[JesiahTEG]

From what I've heard, Yoshi is doing good in Brawl.

 

[Ca$hoholic]

So if his pretty buffed up, that means his incredible awesome, after how awesome he is in melee :D

 

[heypancho]

I agree.. Yoshi is buuuffeeedd.

Yoshi can sometimes chase pretty well, because he combos easier in Brawl. I personally favor bair to ftilt but I think you can do things like uptilt from 0 a few times then upair then DJ upair again or something. DJC being gone opens Yoshi's game a lot, because you can go from ground to air pretty fluidly and it isn't short lived because he still goes high with that second jump+aerial attack. Also nairing people recovering is fun hahaha.

His smashes are decent too because they aren't slow and they hit hard with nice chunks of percent as well with misleading range. I'll admit though, I rarely use dsmash.

Yoshi is definitely buffed. He can combo pretty well and KO. You can bair uptilt then upair. That's like a combo or a KO depending on what percent they're at. Plus he just feels stronger and faster.

Aside from that, Yoshi would still be buffed because you can grab ledges a lot easier and he has that extra last resort egg toss jump. I've been saved a fair amount because of those.

FTILT IS GREAT and so is his jab combo.

*edit* Uh, I feel like I have to say that Yoshi is not like top tier or something. Hehe, he is not pure domination despite how I see him haha...

 

[_Ubemaya_]

I honestly thought for quite a while that Yoshi was way nerfed, but he can actually approach now with SH double aerials. Yay. It's still too early to tell whether he's been improved or deproved, though.

 

[Naucitos]

I tend to think he feels improved, but I can't put my finger on what exactly has been improved..

All I know is that I'm still not used to recovering with Egg Tossing. o.O;

that pretty much nails it for me

 

[Aesonus]

yoshi is definitely a lot stronger and more tournament viable than he was in melee. overall i'm pretty satisfied with him except for the massive nerf of his dsmash. that was probably my favorite ko move in melee...sucks that they nerfed the **** out of it

 

[Shiri]

I have a question.

Aside from his moves...how about his actual tactics? Do you guys find it easier to approach shield or projectile campers? Do you find yourselves getting grabbed alot? How strong is your ground game (something I think Yoshi needs to combat lots of the better characters in the game)? How do you think Yoshi has changed in these respects?

As for me, I find that his combos are free all day in this game. He's one of the game's better natural combo characters for sure, and the new DJ only makes it more fun and creative. Approaches are still lackluster, I find. Yoshi wrecks shields, but he can still get grabbed with his twisty body sometimes. Forward air is very uncool for approaching, really. I actually find myself never using that move unless I'm edgeguarding, and even then there's usually a better option. As for his ground game, the new amazingly amazing grabs help him out very much. No wavedashing takes a while to get used to in terms of speed, chasing, and spacing--especially with all the new slipperiness. Jab combo, forward tilt, and short hop neutral air keep nasty characters like Ike, Wolf, and Snake at bay. Back air is too good.

Also, back air is too good.

 

[Doubletails]

I find myself dealing difficultly with troublesome missile campers like Zelda or sometimes Samus, Falco and R.O.B.; I'd like to think it's actually my lack of experience in the field. However, Yoshi's approach to shields is easier because of how easy it is to connect and stab through the shield with its Dair. Rising Aerials could very well be Yoshi's new DJCC.

 

[DstyCube]

In theory I feel Yoshi has overall become better than what he was in melee. But at the same time he is just too different for me to get a hang of because I'm just too use to melee Yoshi. I like his improved recovery with his up b, but at the same time it annoys me that he can get footstool jumped during his second jump, in which case his up b isn't gonna help much. His grabs have definately gotten a buff. Pivot grabs are great, they cut the lag tremendously on his wind up. Generally Yoshi seems really floaty (like every other character in the game), and it just throws me off because I'm really use to the speedy Yoshi from melee. So yeah, Yoshi got buffed, but he's really different and it's going to take some time for me to get use to the changes.

 

[PRiDE]

I've been playing Yoshi now since early Feb and feel that he has definitely improved since melee. I've gotten pretty far in tournaments with Yoshi and also got to rank 11 on MLG with using just Yoshi.

I've been thinking though, I am not sure if it is the fact that Yoshi has gotten better, or brawlers just don't seem to know how to play against him... A lot of times, people are like "dam... Didn't think Yoshi was that good!" which leads me to think no one has any practice fighting against him.

I have experienced consistent problems fighting against Falcos, Wolfs, and (online)Ikes with my Yoshi and I seem not to have any problems vs Game and Watches, Toon Links, Foxes and Pits.. So he can definitely hold his own while battling said "high teir"" chars...

God dam comboing Falco! Kicked me out of a tournament two weeks in a row! Grr..

I dunno .. We just need to wait and see what big tournaments bring and how well he does.. One coming up in NJ in two weeks... WE shall seen then!

 

[frotaz37]

Back air is too good.

 

[Zek]

I find myself dealing difficultly with troublesome missile campers like Zelda or sometimes Samus, Falco and R.O.B.; I'd like to think it's actually my lack of experience in the field. However, Yoshi's approach to shields is easier because of how easy it is to connect and stab through the shield with its Dair. Rising Aerials could very well be Yoshi's new DJCC.

Is it just me or is the Dair kind of crappy? It's not good as an approach because it has relatively high landing lag and no knockback, so your opponent can punish whether you hit or not. It's hard to land in the air and using it as an edgeguard is extremely dangerous. Is there something about it I'm missing?

 

[Deleted member]

First id like to say that im no longer a yoshi main. I left him for rob =/ I mained him in 64 and in melee, but im done with him for now. Ill still play him as a side character. NC1, i think you are right. I play with this guy online very frequently, he plays wario (who is a beast at fighting yoshi btw), and in the beggining, i could beat him frequently. But though yoshi is pretty tricky, hes also pretty easy to read once u find out how he works. Combos havent worked well, but it might have been because hes freakin wario (f***in DI). Yoshi really needs to not shield much, cuz a lot of characters can put pressure on his shield really well. Maybe i should give him a little longer? I dont know, but i like ROB alot, and hes already better than my yoshi, and hes cool. Also, bigman, i pmed u with my fc, ill still play u with yoshi. I was so enthusiastic about yoshi, but now, i dunno =/

-Burntsocks, former main

Edit: Bigman i gave u my fc. I can still yoshi ditto u, im still good w/ him

 

[PRiDE]

Ugh , don't trade Yoshi in for ROB!!! I told myself I will never stop playing Yoshi untill it is PROVEN that he can absolutely not compete with top teir chars.. It has yet to be proven. Yes falco may kick my butt, but I feel that I am not playing as well as I should be ... We need people to stick with Yoshi!!!

 

[PRiDE]

Yoshi needs people to stick with Yoshi!

 

[Tanea]

Yeah, Yoshi looks better to me. (I'm one of your victims BTW (Wargreymon on SBR))

I say Yoshi is buffed. I don't think Yoshi was really 'nerfed'. There are disadvantages to no DJC, but it could help with recovery. I think that aspect, along with the new air dodge, makes Yoshi easier to use in that respect when recovering.

I swear Yoshi has longer range and is more powerful, but I'm probably hallucinating... but I think he's better and different. XP

EDIT: I say Yoshi's extremely different too, but mostly in a good way. Though the down air nerf is meh.

oh hey it not that i didn't want to play it is just iwas looking for diferent player i owe you ok cool and yes yoshi is kicking but online ,offline and all around for those that leave yoshiu shame on you he finally get good and you all leave oh well more yoshi for me

 

[bigman40]

Guess the original yoshi mainers must keep the train going... FINE BY ME

 

[bigman40]

arg dbl post ftw! sry.

 

[Doubletails]

Is it just me or is the Dair kind of crappy?

Well, I wouldn't want to think that so early in the game; I would prefer to say that there's not a single bad Yoshi move right now.
However you're partly accurate, when you say it may not be the best approach; I say 'under what circumstances?'. Obviously, there's a right place for the right move everytime, and catching a good chance to connect the Dair could get you something like 31% which is still fairly decent damage for a single connected aerial. Another thing is that, If connected start from end, I have yet to see a shield enduring this kind of punishment, for it ususally breaks through, resulting in the character behind taking a hit.

It may not be strong as before, but, with proper strategy, the move is far from crappy.

 

[TheLake]

You can uptilt **** from it. Yoshi ***** now and for ONLY now. Once folks figure out how to aerial evade everything yoshi will just be a sitting duck again ): sort of useless without his djc...

On a brighter note hes super fun to play and will still be top tier just cause his grab doesnt blow anymore and his egg game is so enjoyable i scream everytime i do it.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Buffed buffed buffed and more buffed.

His aerials and air control are insane. I seriously think Pit and Metaknight players are going to have trouble against us.

 

[SpeedYoshi]

spaced back airs as an amazing approach approach
you can weave in with it and then weave out without getting grabbed
can land behind them
if they hit they can lead to upsmash(melee style)
i haven't thoroughly tested this but bair -> dj -> rising nair should stop all shield grabbers
and then you can mix it up and bair -> grab or bair -> fsmash/dash attack

eggs for mixing up the opponent/your own approach
you can just egg at a camper and stay above their current projectile with it and cause them to pause for a second

i find fsmash and uairs to kill the most.. he's not the best at killing horrizontally

nair for combo ender since it comes out fast

i avoid fair now since it's instashield grab except when edgeguarding or pressuring my opponent on the edge
if you can read your opponents ledgegame fair is an amazing choice imo

 

[Shiri]

I seriously think Pit and Metaknight players are going to have trouble against us.

I dunno. They're already learning how to camp pretty well.

Not to mention then Meta Knight has a much more commanding aerial game and Pit's arrows are faster. Maybe if we find new tricks with shield, we can turn the tables, but as it stands for now (since the game is very easy to change in terms of how it's played), those two won't have trouble, I think.

I think the people who will have trouble are the ones who don't have a good ground game and are awkward in the air. I'm primarily thinking of Ganondorf, Pikachu, and Ike. Marth is "meh," and Link is still a pretty even matchup. Characters with good air control like Kirby (!!), Wario, and maybe the two troublemakers mentioned above will probably give Yoshi the most trouble since he only has pseudo-CC at very low percents.

 

[IWontGetOverTheDam]

He's definately better, but he's still pretty "eh."

 

[Gindler]

Here's what I've noticed from playing yoshi as far as nerfs and buffs go.

Nerfs:
1. Dsmash does same percentage but can't even come close to killing at 80% like in melee and that was an easy task to get someone up to 80 with yoshi.
2. His Fair meteor smash is ALOT harder to land, I used to use it as a sure hit and a shield breaker now I hardly ever pull it out unless I'm not above them guarding the edge.
3. His Dair does less damage but I only used it to kill off the edge anyway which it still does and now that it's easier to land every hit that's awesome.


Buffs:
1. My personal favorite is his Bair, it is seriously impossible to dodge all 4 tail wags and takes down shields like no other.
2. The Ftilt is so much more capable of repetition in brawl, it had more kill power in melee (200 percent thouh) but was not a reliable hit like it is now.
3. The Dair goes into a Footstool jump so easily it should be illegal, his is one of my favorite kill moves.
4. The Uair kills at 90% if high in the air at like Final D, but at like 100% it is almost a sure kill.
5. Every single special attack has been buffed, B> is so much better it has cancelled out falcon punches and leaves you in perfect position for a Fsmash and i've gone through one of pit's arrows and connected with him dealing 12 percent, the down B right next to an opponent will hit them up into yoshi as he plummits to the level, his Up B is a bit trickier when using in the air to do damage but I'd rather have the recovery than an attack i rarely used in melee.


Same awesome things yoshi always possessed:
1: Yoshi is still TOUGH, he's pretty much a tank character just without the size, I almost never die before i reach 200%.
2: Same power, his Fsmash can still kill at reasonable percentages.
3: he's still and edgeguarding beast, even more so with the recovery and no DJC.
4. Super armor during his insanely high second jump.
5: When being chased up into the air by a flyer like kirby or meta when they're going to combo more, just Down B them and being close to the ceiling i've killed at percentages like 60%.

Best of all, No one really practices against a good yoshi player so when they play you they have no idea how to approach, defend, or attack so after their defeated they have a look up astonishment on their face.

All in all I'd have to say yoshi is different and BUFFED, projectile spammers beware the new B>, flyers watched the Dair to footstool off the edge, everyone else his relatively good speed, power, and durability.

 

[Deleted member]

Eh, sounds like i should stick to him, or at least try him on some different matchups, to see if it isnt as bad. *Plans on giving yoshi a little longer*

 

[Yo'ster]

He does seem pretty different overall. I am disappointed about the nerf of dsmash, dtilt (because of the new physics), fair, and downb (no KO power unless activated from the ground). That might be changing my perception of the new Yoshi, but I haven't found him to be "so much better" as I've seen many on the board claim. Perhaps I just don't have as much usefulness for the removal of the double jump cancel as other Yoshi players.

Either way, I'll continue to play with Yoshi. He's still fun to play as and I've been doing quite well online so far.

 

[YOSHIDO]

i believe yoshi is better, but he has been weakend in some case. he down smash doesn't hurt like it used too. His eggs are less potent too. But He CAN GRAB NOW. Like shiri said they really are 2 completely differnt yoshis. I dont care what anyone says though. His foward tilt is too sexy

 

[bigman40]

Yoshi is too sexy in this game. Like Gindler said, if spammers come by, then ->b them to control the game. The egg roll can screw a camping pit unless they ping him perfectly with an arrow. I'm still doing good with him and I'm getting more props as I play him (i'm on like 10 forums lol).

 

[FmAiGkGeO]

He feels faster and stronger. At least the gameplay with him feels more seamless than in melee. It's really like moves come out of nowhere. Before I would play him and it just seemed like his moves were predictable at times. Maybe I've just gotten better though.

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

Buffed buffed buffed and more buffed.

His aerials and air control are insane. I seriously think Pit and Metaknight players are going to have trouble against us.

I completely disagree. Pit and Meta Knight both out prioritize him on land and air. Pit especially is ridiculous, if you've played a good camper Pit who abuses his blades you'd know.


Yoshi has buffs but they were necessary buffs, but because of the floaty engine most of them don't matter like they would in Melee.

One of the problems is that his strongest KO move, his Uair, is also very hard to hit versus good opponents, this leaves him with moderate KOing moves overall.

He has excellent air mobility and his Bair is a beautiful offensive move that totally sets up for either a Uair , F-Tilt, or Up Smash.

Problem is he also lacks priority, so characters like Snake, Pit, and Wolf totally destroy him when trying to deal with their attacks.



Other than that, Yoshi is an extremely fun character to play as- I just which brawl was more accommodating to his buffs and didn't make the game into a trip-fest and floaty/