Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

[N3ON]

Somebody in another thread said Isaac was confirmed as an assist trophy, that's not true is it?

Not to my knowledge, did they have any proof?

 

[Oz37]

So, the thought occurred to me that Isaac could be a second character to feature 12 custom moves like Palutena. I mean, we've been talking about how diverse his moveset is and how many options he has available to him. Would he not be a perfect candidate for 12 moves?

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Not to my knowledge, did they have any proof?

No, they said something like "now that Isaac is confirmed an assist trophy his fans can stop going on about him". Something like that.

I guess I feel a little edgy about these things.

 

[Altais]

So, the thought occurred to me that Isaac could be a second character to feature 12 custom moves like Palutena. I mean, we've been talking about how diverse his moveset is and how many options he has available to him. Would he not be a perfect candidate for 12 moves?

This thought occurred to me as well. I was thinking maybe his default standard special could be "Move", whilst his other two standard specials could be "Force" and "Catch". "Move" could push opponents away and block projectiles, Force could send the opponent away with a powerful psychic punch, and Catch could grab a far away opponent and throw them.

His three up-specials could be Retreat, Growth, and Planet Diver. Retreat could be a basic teleportation recovery, Growth could be a tether recovery, and Planet Diver could have Isaac jump sky-high, then dive in whatever direction the player holds the control stick.

There are just so many possibilities.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

No proof of Isaac as an Assist Trophy means what he said has no truthfulness to it.

Until he can prove Isaac is an AT then he has no justified claims.

 

[bassem6]

Probably just a rando that confused Saki (who was in the demo) for Isaac.

 

[JaidynReiman]

It'd be different if multiple people mentioned Isaac like with Chunky Kong. I've only seen one reference to Isaac anywhere and its someone who could be guessed as an AT because he's a very notable character and a popular pick to be playable.

Chunky Kong is nowhere near that. He's not someone anyone would suggest as playable, and several people mentioned him and described him the same way. No one else said anything about Isaac, so I don't buy this reference to Isaac. Not that Isaac IS playable, mind, just that we haven't seen his AT.

 

[bassem6]

Fun fact: There were 27 assist trophies total in brawl and there are currently 27 confirmed assist trophies for smash 4. He can't be keeping THAT many more secret right? I think this bodes well for our earth adept. Im guessing theres still like 8-10 more hes keeping hidden. Gah Sakurai you tease!! Why couldn't you just outright hint at Isaac's inclusion or rejection...

 

[JaidynReiman]

Fun fact: There were 27 assist trophies total in brawl and there are currently 27 confirmed assist trophies for smash 4. He can't be keeping THAT many more secret right? I think this bodes well for our earth adept. Im guessing theres still like 8-10 more hes keeping hidden. Gah Sakurai you tease!! Why couldn't you just outright hint at Isaac's inclusion or rejection...

Sakurai said he's trying to add as many AT's as possible. I believe he can be planning to keep that many secret. We'll probably have about double the amount of Assist Trophies as last time.

I think it still bodes well for Isaac that he hasn't shown up yet, though.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, I had to get a dumb post deleted because I realized that A) Smashboards saves all of your in-progress notes, even the ones that went nowhere and you decided to abandon and B) I can't reply on my 3DS.

However, what I had to say was that, to help us out, we don't have to wait until October, per se. The game will be released in Japan on September 13th, with several individuals most likely obtaining early copies (granted, Nintendo might clamp down on them, but anything that does make it out, we can use to our advantage). And I'm not a guy into waiting to see what happens... I'd rather read the spoilers and know what's gonna happen than get it and have my hopes run dry.

Also, with the ATs, I think Sakurai might want to have at least 35-40 assist characters. Fifteen from Brawl have been confirmed, and with Little Mac as a playable, that leaves 11 up in the air (hopefully, since this is Isaac's thread, Isaac joins Little Mac as the guys who successfully made the jump from AT to playable). Ironically, there are also 11 newcomers to the Assist Trophy group.

For dumb math, let's say Isaac becomes playable and all the remaining Brawl ATs except for Gray Fox (since Snake's not gonna be returning, IMO) return, which would mean we'd have 36 ATs. Here's what I'm hoping becomes an AT:

*A Donkey Kong Country main villain... hopefully not King K. Rool, but it'd either be him, Tiki Tong, or Lord Fredrik.
*A Punch-Out!! boxer, ideally Bald Bull since he can use his charge attack. That, and I hope he speaks in Turkish... love his victory quote in the main circuit.
*A character from a Wario platforming game. Captain Syrup or the Shake King would fit this.
*Naturally, if Isaac becomes playable, somebody should replace him as a Move user, and I want it to be Felix. I know Garet used it first, but Felix had more sway in the story... and I really, really like him. When I read that he basically vanished in Dark Dawn, I was pretty upset.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Despite my cart glitching out horribly, thus rendering me unable to finish the first Golden Sun, I support this character.

 

[Deleted member]

Despite my cart glitching out horribly, thus rendering me unable to finish the first Golden Sun, I support this character.

Sorry to hear that.

Frankly, Golden Sun wasn't the first game I played of the series. I played The Lost Age first... pretty funny story... I was in study hall and saw a girl playing something on her GBA, and I checked it out and I thought it was pretty cool. When my allowance came, I went and bought my first copy from a Target and enjoyed the heck out of it. However, I wanted to see the hidden Sanctum, which required all the Djinn from the two games, so I decided to get the first Golden Sun used.

Well... that's it for this story. Let's go back to talking about Smash Bros..

 

[Altais]

Eh, honestly, if Isaac is playable, I would rather the Golden Sun assist trophy (or trophies) have a completely new function instead of just using Move again. Here are some Assist Trophies I thought of at the top of mine head:

Garet:
Garet repeatedly targets a random opponent and casts Nova, which consists of an explosive blast of flame. The opponent only has a short time to dodge the attack; otherwise, he or she will be KO'ed instantly or be sent flying a fairly far distance.

Ivan:
Ivan repeatedly casts Whirlwind on opponents. What could happen is that the whirlwind could travel perfectly sideways until it either hits a wall or reaches the end of the screen (similar to the mini tornadoes on Air's Rock). If you get caught in Ivan's whirlwind, there is no escape. Even if you have invincibility frames, this spell will still get you.

Mia:
Upon appearing, Mia casts Ply (a healing spell), setting the summoner's damage percentage right back to zero. If it is a team battle, she will instead cast Wish, healing all players on the summoner's team.

Felix:
Felix will randomly cast Scoop on an opponent. The psychic hand picks up an opponent whom is standing on the ground, then hurls them straight up into the air. This move always results in a star KO.

Jenna:
Jenna will repeatedly cast Fume on a random opponent. The dragon-shaped flame flies into the air, damaging any opponent whom comes in contact with it, then comes crashing down on an unlucky opponent, seriously damaging or even KO'ing him/her.

Alex/Arcanus:
Alex will repeatedly target a random opponent and cast Plume Edge, which consists of a powerful jet of water that shoots from the ground, launching opponents sky-high. If you are caught in this spell, consider yourself screwed.

 

[Aguki90]

I buy Golden Sun virtual console, OH Geez the game is very very good and deep!!! I love it.
Isaac can use sword like the 50% of the characters but, he got earth power, he can use ROCKS or EARTHQUAKE TO CRUSH EVERYONE, or he can use force to push or even Lift has is grab. He is really really a awesome character overall!!!
His final smash need to be a Summon, especially Judgment, Just play it, complete and... I want to play more of it!!!
I support Isaac before but now I can officially support it, is my boy!!

 

[iam8bit]

Told you guys Isaac wouldn't come up as an AT.

Our hopes and dreams remain alive!

So, the thought occurred to me that Isaac could be a second character to feature 12 custom moves like Palutena. I mean, we've been talking about how diverse his moveset is and how many options he has available to him. Would he not be a perfect candidate for 12 moves?

That certainly makes sense for Isaac... but aren't all characters getting those extra moves?

I thought I read that somewhere (plus, there was the mention of Mario's altered fireballs).

 

[GraveEclipse567]

Told you guys Isaac wouldn't come up as an AT.

Our hopes and dreams remain alive!


That certainly makes sense for Isaac... but aren't all characters getting those extra moves?

I thought I read that somewhere (plus, there was the mention of Mario's altered fireballs).

There is apparently a difference between the way Palutena does it and other characters.

 

[N3ON]

Each of Palutena's twelve specials seem to be completely different, as opposed to other characters which have three different variations of each special attack (ex: Mario has three different fireballs for his standard special, but they're still all variations of a fireball). I could definitely see Isaac being able to have a similar gimmick to her, given how much he has to work with.

 

[Deleted member]

Why do I have the feeling that if Isaac gets in, they will give him a random counter...

 

[Altais]

Why do I have the feeling that if Isaac gets in, they will give him a random counter...

[Shrugs] If they wanted to give him a counter move, the Mars Djinni Reflux could work. Unlike most of the other counter moves in Smash, it could be long-range.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Oh God, no Counter for Isaac please. It doesn't suit him at all! He should be a bit more of a clumpsy swordfighter than most of the others. Psynergy should be his main focus.

 

[Raetah]

Oh God, no Counter for Isaac please. It doesn't suit him at all! He should be a bit more of a clumpsy swordfighter than most of the others. Psynergy should be his main focus.

Since there is a Djinn that works as a counter, it could be acceptable for me. However personally i prefer the Djinn Granite, decreasing in 50% damage taken and Knockback during a time. And also this would affect your teammates and not only Isaac, so, with this power you would be able to def your partner in a 2 vs 2 if this is close enough to you. Making Isaac one of the most useful support characters for doubles.

Clumsy is definitively not the word that i think when i imagine Isaac fighting.

 

[Your Hero]

I think Granite or one of the other shield djinn would make for a great down-B move. Reduce damage taken + no knock-backs like @ R Raetah mentioned for a set amount of time as well as a charging time would be really useful as well as unique from other smash characters. Using Venus djinn for the up/side/down B with regular B being the "set" move would be super useful if the specials were OP attacks (maybe the first strike is djinn based, and later turns into a weaker version of that move until you set the djinn again, and the number of djinn on standby dictates which earth summon is used in your final smash?). Or to make it easier on the player, set could just be used every 5-10 seconds automatically if a djinn is on standby.

So it could be something like...

B - Set

Side B - Flint: Deals a horizontal Venus-aligned thrust attack 160% of the power of the user's normal physical attack. When in Standby it only does 100% damage.

Alt Side B - Bane: Deals a horizontal Venus-aligned thrust attack 120% of the power of the user's normal physical attack, and may inflict poison damage. When in Standby it only does 100% damage (no poison damage).

Alt Side B - Geode: Deals a horizontal Venus-aligned thrust attack 200% of the power of the user's normal physical attack. If other djinn are in standby they will be set before Geode. When in Standby it only does 100% damage.

Up B - Can't decide. I guess more attack djinn that attack upwards? Maybe djinn that inflict status elements on nearby enemies as you pass through them?

Down B - Granite: Decreases all damage done to Isaac by 50% for 10 seconds. Applies to all team members if in a team battle. Can't be used again until Granite is set. Isaac can't be damaged when the animation is taking place (so it temporarily doubles as a shield). When in Standby it simply acts as a quick shield.

Alt Down B - Ground: Slows down nearby enemies by 50% for 10 seconds. Does not affect team members if in a team battle. When in standby it simply acts as a quick shield.

Alt Down B - Quartz or Crystal: Recovers 50% of damage. Applies to all team members if in a team battle. Can't be used again until Quartz is set. If other djinn are in standby they will be set before Quartz. When in standby it simply acts as a quick shield.

Normal attacks can be a mix of psynergy attacks, non-combat psynergy and regular attacks animations. This could include psynergy from other classes, such as the ninja, etc.

Final Smash is one of the four earth summons. Then Isaac's customized moves would be the ability to switch the element of each attack which would change it's animations, speed and possibly the final Smash, but the only catch is Isaac would have to change the entire move set (can't pick and choose different djinni) so that the final smash matches whichever elements he's using. It would be a lot to expect 16 different final smashes though for Isaac though...

A simpler (and likely more fitting) final smash for Isaac would be Ragnarok. One large diagonal strike that hits a large area, while still being avoidable.

And Isaac's grabs would be any hand psynergy. Move (forward), Pound (down), Lift (up), and Force (back).

In a sense, this moveset would rely more on regular attacks, with "B" attacks being used as support (each attack, when used would put a djinn on standby, making Isaac slightly weaker. It allows players to use Isaac either as a pure brawler, or as a support character in team battles). Isaac's weaknesses would stem from using his djinn, as each one would weaken him. He would need to be pretty powerful by default, since he'll be nerfing and buffing himself throughout the battle.

----

I might play around with this more after I shower.

 

[bassem6]

Nice movesets. I would be fine with any moveset really, I just want him to be playable lol.

I always feel hopeful whenever I see Isaac on a well-made newcomer prediction list! Here's one that I found today that is really spot on with a lot of its prediction/reasoning.
http://www.gameskinny.com/8n5x1/the-top-ten-most-anticipated-characters-in-smash-bros-4

If you guys have any pro isaac videos or articles/lists then please share! Trying to stay as hopeful as possible here

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I think Granite or one of the other shield djinn would make for a great down-B move. Reduce damage taken + no knock-backs like @ R Raetah mentioned for a set amount of time as well as a charging time would be really useful as well as unique from other smash characters. Using Venus djinn for the up/side/down B with regular B being the "set" move would be super useful if the specials were OP attacks (maybe the first strike is djinn based, and later turns into a weaker version of that move until you set the djinn again, and the number of djinn on standby dictates which earth summon is used in your final smash?). Or to make it easier on the player, set could just be used every 5-10 seconds automatically if a djinn is on standby.

So it could be something like...

B - Set

Side B - Flint: Deals a horizontal Venus-aligned thrust attack 160% of the power of the user's normal physical attack. When in Standby it only does 100% damage.

Alt Side B - Bane: Deals a horizontal Venus-aligned thrust attack 120% of the power of the user's normal physical attack, and may inflict poison damage. When in Standby it only does 100% damage (no poison damage).

Alt Side B - Geode: Deals a horizontal Venus-aligned thrust attack 200% of the power of the user's normal physical attack. If other djinn are in standby they will be set before Geode. When in Standby it only does 100% damage.

Up B - Can't decide. I guess more attack djinn that attack upwards? Maybe djinn that inflict status elements on nearby enemies as you pass through them?

Down B - Granite: Decreases all damage done to Isaac by 50% for 10 seconds. Applies to all team members if in a team battle. Can't be used again until Granite is set. Isaac can't be damaged when the animation is taking place (so it temporarily doubles as a shield). When in Standby it simply acts as a quick shield.

Alt Down B - Ground: Slows down nearby enemies by 50% for 10 seconds. Does not affect team members if in a team battle. When in standby it simply acts as a quick shield.

Alt Down B - Quartz or Crystal: Recovers 50% of damage. Applies to all team members if in a team battle. Can't be used again until Quartz is set. If other djinn are in standby they will be set before Quartz. When in standby it simply acts as a quick shield.

Normal attacks can be a mix of psynergy attacks, non-combat psynergy and regular attacks animations. This could include psynergy from other classes, such as the ninja, etc.

Final Smash is one of the four earth summons. Then Isaac's customized moves would be the ability to switch the element of each attack which would change it's animations, speed and possibly the final Smash, but the only catch is Isaac would have to change the entire move set (can't pick and choose different djinni) so that the final smash matches whichever elements he's using. It would be a lot to expect 16 different final smashes though for Isaac though...

A simpler (and likely more fitting) final smash for Isaac would be Ragnarok. One large diagonal strike that hits a large area, while still being avoidable.

And Isaac's grabs would be any hand psynergy. Move (forward), Pound (down), Lift (up), and Force (back).

In a sense, this moveset would rely more on regular attacks, with "B" attacks being used as support (each attack, when used would put a djinn on standby, making Isaac slightly weaker. It allows players to use Isaac either as a pure brawler, or as a support character in team battles). Isaac's weaknesses would stem from using his djinn, as each one would weaken him. He would need to be pretty powerful by default, since he'll be nerfing and buffing himself throughout the battle.

----

I might play around with this more after I shower.

As long as the Down B move "Granite" takes long to charge it will be well balanced.

 

[Your Hero]

As long as the Down B move "Granite" takes long to charge it will be well balanced.

My original idea was to make "set" an automatic thing, where each djinn sets after 5-10 seconds. The thing about Smash Bros is Granite wouldn't be as effective as it sounds. Even if Isaac is in his 10 second defense period, he can still get pounded on by projectiles, and then a final/strong blow could be done once the timer runs out. You also have to keep in mind Isaac will be weakened every time he has a djinn on standby.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

My original idea was to make "set" an automatic thing, where each djinn sets after 5-10 seconds. The thing about Smash Bros is Granite wouldn't be as effective as it sounds. Even if Isaac is in his 10 second defense period, he can still get pounded on by projectiles, and then a final/strong blow could be done once the timer runs out. You also have to keep in mind Isaac will be weakened every time he has a djinn on standby.

That would make Isaac more original, but wouldn't it make him too underpowered? It would more strategy yes, but having Djinns constantly weaken Isaac after use would make him too easy to kill.

 

[Phaazoid]

Sakurai said he's trying to add as many AT's as possible. I believe he can be planning to keep that many secret. We'll probably have about double the amount of Assist Trophies as last time.

I think it still bodes well for Isaac that he hasn't shown up yet, though.

The only thing that scares me about this is that isaac was an unlockable AT in brawl, right?

that means there are probably unlockable AT's in 4. The status would probably carry over. So not seeing him yet might not be as good news as we want it to be :/

(same with ray lol)

 

[Diddy Kong]

Wheren't there already a few Brawl unlockable ATs revealed though? Shadow was unlockable for example.

 

[Phaazoid]

Wheren't there already a few Brawl unlockable ATs revealed though? Shadow was unlockable for example.

I hadn't thought about that, good point. Maybe they decided having unlockable items was a weird idea, lol.

 

[Staarih]

Shadow assist trophy was unlocked by unlocking Sonic as a character though, and as Sonic was playable in the demo (I think?) they probably just had Shadow unlocked as well. Assuming the same criteria for unlocking him remained. But I don't know, I still think it's a good sign that we haven't seen Isaac yet, considering how many AT's we know already so far.

 

[JaidynReiman]

The only thing that scares me about this is that isaac was an unlockable AT in brawl, right?

that means there are probably unlockable AT's in 4. The status would probably carry over. So not seeing him yet might not be as good news as we want it to be :/

(same with ray lol)

Infantry and Tanks was available in the original Brawl demo as well. If we still have unlockable AT's, its incredibly possible some of the AT's we know now are unlockable in the final game, and naturally, we do have Shadow, though the argument about him is that Sonic is in the demo and Shadow is available because Sonic is.

I'm actually slightly more optimistic now after seeing the Golden Sun sales numbers. I know that VGChartz isn't the most accurate, but when comparing to other franchises Golden Sun did better than Xenoblade as a whole and even Dark Dawn was right behind Xenoblade. It'd be helpful if I knew a place to get better numbers, though.

 

[Phaazoid]

Well, I'm hopeful. I find the gametsu leak characters a bit boring, I would much prefer the likes of Isaac, and Ray. Little mac graduated from AT, lets hope the trend continues a bit.

 

[Staarih]

Well, I'm hopeful. I find the gametsu leak characters a bit boring, I would much prefer the likes of Isaac, and Ray. Little mac graduated from AT, lets hope the trend continues a bit.

Agreed, I like the idea of "promoting" some of the AT's into playable characters. I guess they would also be a bit easier to implement with models from Brawl ready for use already (though Little Mac is drastically different from his AT-times... which is all good though haha!). I was actually hoping for Tingle to become playable this time around (I know...), but that didn't happen, so I'm putting my hope in Isaac!

 

[iam8bit]

All this moveset talks just reminds me that Isaac is perfect for a very original moveset, which seems to be the theme for this game's newcomers. Embarrass

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, I'm hopeful. I find the gametsu leak characters a bit boring, I would much prefer the likes of Isaac, and Ray. Little mac graduated from AT, lets hope the trend continues a bit.

My thoughts exactly. I just cannot believe that Little Mac would be the only chosen AT to become playable. Especially with the Brawl Dojo comment: 'These are character that might've been planned one time, but didn't make it in.'

If Isaac is not in now. I fear what might happen next game...

Playable Nintendog? ... Tingle?

...

Waluigi?

 

[Phaazoid]

My thoughts exactly. I just cannot believe that Little Mac would be the only chosen AT to become playable. Especially with the Brawl Dojo comment: 'These are character that might've been planned one time, but didn't make it in.'

If Isaac is not in now. I fear what might happen next game...

Playable Nintendog? ... Tingle?

...

Waluigi?

Ashley and Shadow

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ashley is okay, Shadow though...?

Sorry Tingle and Waluigi! I'll gladly take you!

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Ashley is okay, Shadow though...?

Sorry Tingle and Waluigi! I'll gladly take you!

I agree. I prefer more Nintendo exclusive characters than more 3rd party characters that already have their spots filled.

Isaac would be a wonderful addition.

 

[RhymesWithEmpty]

My thoughts exactly. I just cannot believe that Little Mac would be the only chosen AT to become playable. Especially with the Brawl Dojo comment: 'These are character that might've been planned one time, but didn't make it in.'

If Isaac is not in now. I fear what might happen next game...

Playable Nintendog? ... Tingle?

...

Waluigi?

Well, Sakurai did say in the E3 video that he had considered putting Miis in Brawl, maybe that's what he was referring to? We don't know exactly how far along in the development process these planned characters might have been. Or it could've just been cut characters like Mewtwo. Either way, I wouldn't take that statement to necessarily mean more than one AT is going to be promoted to playable in any way. Little Mac was always the obvious front runner there, it could very easily just be him, unfortunately D:

 

[Your Hero]

That would make Isaac more original, but wouldn't it make him too underpowered? It would more strategy yes, but having Djinns constantly weaken Isaac after use would make him too easy to kill.

Think of it kind of as a reverse Lucario with four stages (depending on how many djinn are on set/standby).

The idea was that Isaac is a strong character by default, but you can either choose to be all attack, or use djinn and play a defensive/support role instead. The purpose of making B "set" is so that Isaac has the ability to re-buff himself. I want to say it should take a second to do (if it's an attack) and can be interrupted.

Isaac would be a powerful character with several weaknesses: frequent nerfing/buffing throughout the battle. mid-fast attacks (could be beaten by any quick character) and has a "useless" attack that takes a second to fulfill. Chances are his recovery options will be a bit limited too since I can't think of any long-range djinn attacks/recovery options.