Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

[Swamp Sensei]

You know, it seems like the majority of people that have played Golden Sun have played it when it came out and was somewhat of a hot thing. Which makes me think that's the reason why people are so fond of the Golden Sun and why people are fond of Issac is because of that sense of nostalgia. Honestly speaking, I'm not one of those people. I have played Golden Sun in recent years to figure out what the big deal is with the franchise that get's people so intrigued... and I fail to see it. It might be because of the many RPG's I have played over the years tainting my views, might be because I have not played the games when it came out which caused me to not get a sense of fond memories, or maybe it's because of Xenoblade pretty much spoiling me to sin. One thing for sure is that whatever charm Golden Sun has, I honestly don't see it.

Call me nasty words and throw eggs at me all you want, I'm just curious as to why Golden Sun seems to get peoples attention. No fire in sight, just some answers to questions.

Well since you offered...

I guess it's just a game series people love. They love the characters, plot, music, gameplay, etc. It was great for its time and has aged suprisingly well compared to other JRPGs of the time. But in the big scheme of things, people like it because it's just good fun.

Nostalgia is part of it for sure, but then again, when is nostalgia not a factor? I'm not sure how to describe it, but I guess people want to see what they like live on. Isn't there something you like that you want to live on? (Not on the offense, simply using it for examples sake)

 

[Oasis_S]

nyersh

I don't know how many others feel the same way as me here, but I really don't care about Golden Sun or even Isaac as a character himself. BUUUT, as an addition to Smash, he excites me more than nearly every other character because of his potential moveset. He's like a ground-type Pokemon with cool clothes. The fact that people like him, well, I guess that's just a bonus. I'll just assume he's got some cool music and a cool stage to offer as well.

Just wanna cause earthquakes and throw rocks at people god damn it.

 

[N3ON]

You know, it seems like the majority of people that have played Golden Sun have played it when it came out and was somewhat of a hot thing. Which makes me think that's the reason why people are so fond of the Golden Sun and why people are fond of Issac is because of that sense of nostalgia. Honestly speaking, I'm not one of those people. I have played Golden Sun in recent years to figure out what the big deal is with the franchise that get's people so intrigued... and I fail to see it. It might be because of the many RPG's I have played over the years tainting my views, might be because I have not played the games when it came out which caused me to not get a sense of fond memories, or maybe it's because of Xenoblade pretty much spoiling me to sin. One thing for sure is that whatever charm Golden Sun has, I honestly don't see it.

Call me nasty words and throw eggs at me all you want, I'm just curious as to why Golden Sun seems to get peoples attention. No fire in sight, just some answers to questions.

I certainly can't speak for everyone who supports Isaac or just GS in general, but personally while I do feel twinges of nostalgia when playing GS, that's hardly why I support Isaac. I'm nostalgic towards many games, but at least for me, that doesn't necessarily translate into which characters I support for Smash. I have also played through GS multiple times, so I don't really personally associate Golden Sun with when it was at its most popular, as even though I played it then, I've also played it many other times, such as during the seven-year gap between TLA and DD, and even after DD. I enjoy the series for it's battle system and mechanics, its use of psynergy to solve puzzles in the overworld, its setting, its artistic style, its music, its characters, and back when it was relatively new, its graphics, which were pretty astounding for a portable system considering there was really only the Game Boy beforehand.

Isaac happens to be my favourite character from GS (well, maybe tied for first), but I would agree personality-wise, at least in the first two, he is rather generic.

However the reason I support Isaac to the extent I do for Smash is not only because I love the series, but I also feel that it would be a great fit in Smash, I would love to see what a GS character could bring (as I feel they have untapped potential compared to what we already have in regards to existing playstyles), and also because I feel Golden Sun at this point is one of the unrepresented series that most deserves a rep. During Brawl, I agree it was debatable, and it not getting a rep then was totally fair, but its overall impact, even if it happened before Brawl, still resonates and is comparatively high among unrepresented series, and as there are many other people who also seem to want Isaac, I feel as if his inclusion is as merited as almost any other new series rep, so in tandem with loving the Golden Sun series, I also love the Smash Bros. series, and feel like the two would make a great fit, not just character-wise. I also think GS could use the increase in popularity that comes with being in Smash, as the series deserves better than to fade away with an unresolved cliffhanger, but that's not why I support Isaac.

However, to each their own, and I know several people who have been underwhelmed or not really affected by Golden Sun, and that's fine too. Not every game is for everyone. I hope people try it before they judge it, but I'm not claiming it's the best game ever, or the best RPG ever, or better or more deserving that what we already have in Smash, and nostalgia might play a large factor for some people, but I personally just have a lot of fun playing the games (even the third) and see that at least some other people do as well, and if they also like Smash it makes sense that they would want the two to overlap, so I've tried to make the best place I can for Isaac support.

 

[Deleted member]

Eh, to be fair, he was still Japanese-only. Sakurai can get a bit picky with Japanese-only characters it seems, you know? /StarfyDefence



Anyway, call me uninformed, but I actually didn't know Golden Sun came out before Pikmin until I came to this thread today...huh.

Well, that would be a thing to consider if it was still about whether Starfy was worthy or not.
According to the translation, Sakurai is saying that there hasn't been a series since Pikmin that had a character that can suitably work as a fighter. So it more or less lies in Starfy's design, as doing a little research shows he has enough to work with for a moveset. I can see what Sakurai might be thinking though about how Starfy might not work in general (such as grabs, items, etc.), given that he's got less articulation than Kirby or Jigglypuff....

And yeah, I didn't know Golden Sun came out before Pikmin either until it was mentioned. 0_O

 

[ChronoBound]

Excellent responses to what Habanero's concerns

I am personally not a supporter of Isaac, though I think he deserves to be in.

Habanero brought up that he was not impressed with the Golden Sun series. I know for myself, as I got older it became a lot more difficult for a game to impress me. For example, I only last year played through Final Fantasy VI (which is considered to be the pinnacle of the Final Fantasy series and among the best RPGs of all time), and absolutely loved Chrono Trigger, and while I did find FFVI to be a great game, I was not "oh yeah this is one of the best games ever." I guess I was also spoiled due to the fact that every other RPG I really like does not have random battles in it.

With Skyward Sword, although its largely considered to be a great Zelda game, I found it a chore to play though and was pretty much forcing myself through it hoping it would get better. It didn't.

Anyway, on the topic of Isaac. I actually remember lots of people asking for him when I checked a "Who do you want for Smash Bros. 3" topic on GameFAQs on the Melee board in the first half of 2002. That the Isaac fanbase has endured for so long (just look at how other fanbases for characters that did not get in Brawl collapsed) shows that for many people there is something special in the GS series, and even if it were just nostalgia, there is still a lot a character like Isaac could bring to the table for Smash 4's roster.

Some of you may also be dismayed that the relatively poor performance of Dark Dawn may mean we won't get Isaac in Smash 4.

I am not sure how well of an analogue this is, but between Smash 64 and Melee, and the only new Fire Emblem game released was Thracia 776. FE5, like Dark Dawn, ended up selling far worse than any other game in the series up to that point (we are talking about heights such as 750K for FE3 and 500K for FE4) to 155K for FE5.

Yet for the next installment there was not one but two FE characters, and Marth, a character who was not the main hero of a game in that series since January 1994 was the top priority for a character for that series because he was still beloved after all those years as well as the game he hailed from.

We obviously won't get two GS characters in Smash 4, however, having Isaac in would serve to represent what the series is about.

April 2013 is supposedly when the first GBA Virtual Console games will be released. Camelot right now is busy working on Mario Golf for the 3DS. Assuming GS1 and 2 are released this year, and GS is given a year hiatus to think/plan their next project, the brisk sales of the VC GS GBA games could as said before, provide an impetus to make their next project a fourth game in the Golden Sun series.

Camelot in their last interview mentioned making RPGs was a lot of work, and said that it would be up to fan interest whether they would make another game. On the end of the fans, I think the best way to show Camelot interest in the series is for them to vote with their wallets.

As for Camelot, although they say seem reluctant to make another RPG, keepp in mind that prior to Hot Shots Golf, nearly all the games Camelot made were RPGs (or strategy RPGs). RPGs are what's in Camelot's heritage, and as said before, they really don't have any options to make another Mario Golf/Tennis title after the Golf 3DS game is released later this year (I don't think they have enough members to make a Wii U Golf/Tennis game, though I could be wrong).

At the very least Camelot should consider outside help for making GS4, possibly Monlith Soft. I mean if even the Zelda team asked for the help of Monolith Soft (namely with the graphics), I think the much smaller Camelot asking for a little assistance (again possibly the engine) would be understandable.

Back years before Dark Dawn's release, it was being hyped by the Takahashi bros. that the two GBA games were the prelude to the real story in that world. That gives me (and hopefully the rest of the GS fanbase) hope that there is something grand being planned for GS.

I think for the next game, the Takahashi Bros. should be under the impression that its going to be the last game in the series and go all out with any ideas they have for that game. Even if does end up being the last game in the series, at the very least the series will be fondly rememebered (much like the ended Mother series) and people will continue to play their Golden Sun quadrilogy as a result of Isaac's place within Smash Bros and superb quality of the series overall.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Golden Sun's battle system, and especially the Psynergy, Djinn and Summons make Golden Sun very unique for a turn based RPG. The story and characters are not all too outstanding for a RPG, and are kind of typical, but still, the story was good enough, and the characters likeable enough. And the puzzling aspect of the game is also nice. Golden Sun just has a special place in my heart, and I don't see how people can miss it's charm.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

More recolors by X Naut Shroober! This guy is amazing!

The first recolor is based on Garret and the second is based on Matthew. The red is based on Jenna. The blue is based on Alex and the green is based on Felix.

 

[~automatic]

I give this thread my approval.

 

[Knight Dude]

If Isaac ever got the change to be part of the roster I'd imagine that he'd use the Djinn. Given that It'll allow him to have a more robust moveset, Not just using his earth powers but all the elements. Cutting Edge and Planet Diver come to mind. Then there's the final smash, chances are it'd be a summon or Ragnarok. Though I'll admit his chances are kinda low.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd rather have him be Earth Psynergy based. As that allows for a lot unique moveset possibilities. Ragnarok / Oddesey, Nettle, Quake Sphere, Spire, Growth, Retreat, all would make for an awesome moveset.

 

[BluePikmin11]

He is a Earth Psynergy User, it makes lots of sense.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Only reason why people seem to bring this up is cause of the PSI / Mother kids' movesets. I think it could work, but I also prefer a more Cannon-based moveset for Ness and Lucas. So Isaac should preferably have Earth Psynergy moves. I think that offers most diversity, and make Isaac stand out more in the cast as a character with Earth-based moves. Only Donkey Kong has these sort of moves now. And like Ice Climbers being the only ones having Ice based moves, and could use another few characters with Ice moves, why not Isaac with Earth moves? Like, moves where You're being trapped in the ground, like DK's Side B. Move would most likely also be featured in his moveset however I think... Seeing as it was his AT self move.

 

[N3ON]

Alright, it's been a while since I updated the OP, so I just added Swampasaur's plot overview from his Isaac essay, and X Naut Shroober's palette swap! Great to see people still have an interest in Isaac and continue to support him for Smash and come up with fantastic ideas related to how he would be implemented.

(I don't know why it shows two spoiler tags for X Naut's palette swap, but I can't fix it without removing the picture, so bear with it for now, sorry).

Only reason why people seem to bring this up is cause of the PSI / Mother kids' movesets. I think it could work, but I also prefer a more Cannon-based moveset for Ness and Lucas. So Isaac should preferably have Earth Psynergy moves. I think that offers most diversity, and make Isaac stand out more in the cast as a character with Earth-based moves. Only Donkey Kong has these sort of moves now. And like Ice Climbers being the only ones having Ice based moves, and could use another few characters with Ice moves, why not Isaac with Earth moves? Like, moves where You're being trapped in the ground, like DK's Side B. Move would most likely also be featured in his moveset however I think... Seeing as it was his AT self move.

I agree Isaac is best off using primarily Venus-based psynergy, as it represents his character best, but in other peoples' defense, he technically can learn several psynergy attacks that aren't of the Venus element, such as Planet Diver and Cutting Edge, so him being able to use them in Smash would be canonically correct and wouldn't quite be like Ness or Lucas, who don't actually ever use most of their attacks in game. I suspect the majority of Isaac's moves would revolve around Earth-based attacks (and swordplay), but I wouldn't be surprised if a few weren't Earth-based, or Venus psynergy at all, like Move (or the aforementioned ones).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think X Naut Shroober will like this development.

Thanks N3ON.

I've been thinking. Why did they go through all the trouble of getting permission from a 2nd Party company to only use Isaac as an AT (and one piece of music)?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Some of the AT characters where planned for playable characters, but couldn't quite make the final roster as said on the Dojo.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Some of the AT characters where planned for playable characters, but couldn't quite make the final roster as said on the Dojo.

Link?

 

[Diddy Kong]

: http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/items/assist/assist01.html

'Assist Trophies allow you to enjoy even more characters who couldn’t quite make it as playable fighters.You may even see some that only the most dedicated fans will recognize, so you’ll have to look forward to them.'

Also, Isaac's AT Dojo update has this as description:

'Isaac is an adept from the Golden Sun series who commands earth-based Psynergy. He carries a sword on his back but you won’t see him use it here.

Isaac has the ability Move, which has the ability to move objects. This time, that ability has been represented as a massive hand that pushes away anything in it’s path.'

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I'm all for Issac making it into SSB4. Gotta take it easy on the sword characters though. There might be a ton in the next game.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Super Smash Bros: Soul Calibur. I'd still buy it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm all for Issac making it into SSB4. Gotta take it easy on the sword characters though. There might be a ton in the next game.

Well we have.
Link
Toon Link
Marth
Ike
Metaknight

That's not a lot. We could add a couple more.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Well we have.
Link
Toon Link
Marth
Ike
Metaknight

That's not a lot. We could add a couple more.

Its fine now, but if some people's roster came true we would have quite a bit.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd count Pit maybe as well.

And I don't even think Isaac would have many sword attacks outside regular A attacks and aerials. Only real newcomers who are mostly sword based are Takamru and Chrom. Adding Roy and Isaac wouldn't be overkill at all imo.

 

[N3ON]

I've been thinking. Why did they go through all the trouble of getting permission from a 2nd Party company to only use Isaac as an AT (and one piece of music)?

Because Sakurai spoils us.
(Hence the entitlement many seem to feel towards Smash)

Really though, it's probably because Sakurai sees Smash as a gathering of Nintendo as a whole, and he doesn't want to exclude any series that in his minds merit content (even if not playable content), even if that means he has to work harder to obtain it.

I'm all for Issac making it into SSB4. Gotta take it easy on the sword characters though. There might be a ton in the next game.

Honestly, I don't see the problem with having a fair amount of sword-characters. If they all played the same, if they all had the same kind of sword, if they were chosen solely because they were sword-wielders, that would be one thing, but for the most part they all have pretty different playstyles, and potential sword-wielders this time around like Isaac, Shulk, Takamaru, Saki, etc. would hardly be anything like each other or previous sword-wielders, so it's not like we get the same thing every time a sword character is added.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Speaking of swords, what sword should Isaac use? I'm having a hard time deciding between Gaia Blade, and Sol Blade. If the Sol Blade is featured however, I MUST HAVE an Megiddo Final Smash.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Megiddo should be a randomly occurring effect to F-Smash for Isaac. Sol Blade though because we need JUDGEMENTOH as Isaac's Final Smash.

Spoiler

 

[N3ON]

Speaking of swords, what sword should Isaac use? I'm having a hard time deciding between Gaia Blade, and Sol Blade. If the Sol Blade is featured however, I MUST HAVE an Megiddo Final Smash.

Aesthetically I don't see Isaac getting anything other than the default-looking Long Sword, but effect-wise (if a sword's effect is implemented), I'd say Sol Blade and Megiddo. Unless Sakurai wants to stick to a sword that Isaac is a little more associated with, in which case that'd probably be the Gaia Blade (though it's not like Isaac is disassociated with the Sol Blade, but Felix and Matthew might be more closely associated with it, since the Sol Blade wasn't in the game Isaac was the main protagonist of), however I very much doubt Sakurai would choose the latter for that reason.

I'd also agree with Horsetail that Judgment (or another summon) is probably the best option (and most likely option) for Isaac's FS, and if Megiddo can be implemented somewhere else, then great, but personally I'm not going to hold my breath for getting any sword Unleash effects, Isaac has plenty of other options for attacks I personally think would get chosen over a sword effect.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If they do a mixed Isaac moveset, I could see them opt for a Final Smash based on the Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Mercury summons, but fused togheter. Though I don't know if I'd like that. I still prefer Venus Psynergy only.

 

[N3ON]

If they do a mixed Isaac moveset, I could see them opt for a Final Smash based on the Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Mercury summons, but fused togheter. Though I don't know if I'd like that. I still prefer Venus Psynergy only.

Yeah, Sakurai could give Isaac an original FS, but I think he has enough iconic FS-worthy attacks that he doesn't really need to, even if creating an attack that uses all four elements would represent GS well as a whole. Of course, some characters in Brawl had perfectly workable FS-worthy canon attacks, yet they got original FSs anyway, like the Mario characters, so it's a possibility I guess.

I'm willing to bet that it ends up being Judgment though.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

New sword users:

-Matthew/Adult Isaac
-Isa Jo
-Shulk
-Ghirahim
-Takamaru
-Magnus
-Chrom
-Travis Touchdown

And they are all different

From each other and from ones already on the roster

 

[N3ON]

More like:
(good chance)
Takamaru
(decent chance)
Isaac (teenage appearance)
Shulk
Saki
Chrom
(mediocre chance)
Ghirahim
Matthew
Isa
(poor chance)
Travis Touchdown
Magnus

What really is the point of posting the same (or very similar) lists over and over again anyway?

Also, am I to assume that you think both Palutena and Magnus will be in SSB4?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still think most of them are interessting enough characters. Just blame videogames in general of overusing swords I guess. Isaac probably won't use his sword much anyway except for regular moves. And even there he could throw some Psynergy based moves in. Ragnarok / Oddessey would be another story though, but damn, that move is just too awesome not to have.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

More like:
(good chance)
Takamaru
Shulk
Ghirahim
Matthew
Isa
Chrom
(decent chance)
Isaac (adult appearance)
Saki
Aeron
Zael
Travis Touchdown
(mediocre chance)
Magnus


What really is the point of posting the same (or very similar) lists over and over again anyway?

Also, am I to assume that you think both Palutena and Magnus will be in SSB4?

No point, but I did fix the list. This one is better fit.

Also, no, not really. I see Palutena. But Magnus is as pontential a sword user as Isa, Takamaru, Shulk, Aeron, Zael, Ghirahim, Adult Isaac, Saki, etc for sword user choices.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Put on Beam Swords. Now everybody is a sword user.

 

[N3ON]

No point, but I did fix the list. This one is better fit.

Wow. It really isn't.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Wow. It really isn't.

You severely downplayed Shulk, Isa, Chrom, Matthew, and Adult Isaac while overrated Saki, Young Isaac, and Takamaru (especially the last one, he is no guarantee yet).

Just saying.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Isaac isn't Link. He won't get a Young and Adult version in.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Isaac isn't Link. He won't get a Young and Adult version in.

Well, no he wouldn't, but if he is in it would be his adult self since it is the latest version and that is what they usually go with (Zelda roster, Pokemon roster, etc).

Plus we would get that amazing beard. Too bad I think Matthew is more likely since he WAS the main character in the game that started the main story and Camelot would probably rather promote him for Golden Sun 4.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Amazing beard would be cool yeah. Can't really make the choice, but yeah, both would be good to have.

 

[N3ON]

You severely downplayed Shulk, Isa, Chrom, Matthew, and Adult Isaac while overrated Saki, Young Isaac, and Takamaru (especially the last one, he is no guarantee yet).

Just saying.

Hoo boy. Firstly, I put Takamaru in the exact same position you did. First, and a "good chance".

Secondly, Sakurai picks the most iconic characters to represent a series. He picks the face of the series first and foremost. That is teenage Isaac, that is Saki. Saki is a little more debatable, but the only reason he would put Matthew and Isa in at this point with both series being in such jeopardy of continuing is either if Camelot/Treasure requested it (which we have absolutely no evidence they would do), or Sakurai is aware of some future game with Matthew/Isa as the protagonist. Camelot is making a Mario Golf game now, GS4 is pretty clearly not in development atm, or AT MOST in veryvery early stages, if at all. S&P has never been a very successful series critically, and Treasure isn't fond of doing sequels. It's likely over. At this point (and at this point last year, when Sakurai was likely compiling the roster) Isaac (teenage Isaac) and Saki were and are the faces of the series. If a GS/S&P character is to be included, it will almost assuredly be them. Sakurai isn't going to make adult Isaac Isaac's default. He just won't. Adult Isaac is a minor NPC. Teenage Isaac is a two-time protagonist of the two successful games in the series, and still the face, and basically the "Marth" of the series. Sakurai including the most recent appearance of characters is not a strict and rigid rule he adheres by, it's a coincidental occurrence, because either the character never changes appearances, or their last appearance was also a major appearance for them. The sooner you realize this the better.

Chrom has a decent chance, no better. It's not good, it's decent. If he didn't have competition from Roy (who I'm not going to get into, your views about him are frankly... misguided), he'd have a good chance. The competition for the new FE slot is pretty tight, and all Chrom really has going for him is his recentness. His opposition is a character twice planned for Smash before, and the second most popular character in a region where popularity usually dictates the majority of the roster, and where the series gained its popularity from, and where Sakurai will look when choosing a FE character.

Xenoblade isn't at the level of several series that didn't even get representation in Brawl. Yes, it's critically acclaimed, and a great game, but Shulk's popularity is limited, his game's audience is limited, and his competition (in other unrepresented series) is fairly strong as well. However, he does have a fair bit of popularity in some circles, and he is one of the more prominent unrepresented IPs, however no more so than many other unrepresented IPs. Decent is still better than average.

Really though, the fact that teenage Isaac isn't anywhere on your list, not even under mediocre chance, is really incredible. And not in the good way. Same as you thinking Travis and Aeron have the same chance as Isaac and Saki. New IPs do not just get added because they exist. The new (non-retro) IPs added so far (past 64) are Fire Emblem, Wario, and Pikmin. Do you think Pandora's Tower is even close to them? Xenoblade isn't even close to them. GS is just within reach of Pikmin (it probably won't be after Pikmin 3), but even then, it'll be lucky if we get more than like three new (non-retro, non-3rd party) IPs this time around, and one will definitely be Punch-Out.

Anyway, with expectations and predictions like this, prepare for the roster to be a disappointment for you.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Hoo boy. Firstly, I put Takamaru in the exact same position you did. First, and a "good chance".

Secondly, Sakurai picks the most iconic characters to represent a series. He picks the face of the series first and foremost. That is teenage Isaac, that is Saki. Saki is a little more debatable, but the only reason he would put Matthew and Isa in at this point with both series being in such jeopardy of continuing is either if Camelot/Treasure requested it (which we have absolutely no evidence they would do), or Sakurai is aware of some future game with Matthew/Isa as the protagonist. Camelot is making a Mario Golf game now, GS4 is pretty clearly not in development atm, or AT MOST in veryvery early stages, if at all. S&P has never been a very successful series critically, and Treasure isn't fond of doing sequels. It's likely over. At this point (and at this point last year, when Sakurai was likely compiling the roster) Isaac (teenage Isaac) and Saki were and are the faces of the series. If a GS/S&P character is to be included, it will almost assuredly be them. Sakurai isn't going to make adult Isaac Isaac's default. He just won't. Adult Isaac is a minor NPC. Teenage Isaac is a two-time protagonist of the two successful games in the series, and still the face, and basically the "Marth" of the series. Sakurai including the most recent appearance of characters is not a strict and rigid rule he adheres by, it's a coincidental occurrence, because either the character never changes appearances, or their last appearance was also a major appearance for them. The sooner you realize this the better.

Chrom has a decent chance, no better. It's not good, it's decent. If he didn't have competition from Roy (who I'm not going to get into, your views about him are frankly... misguided), he'd have a good chance. The competition for the new FE slot is pretty tight, and all Chrom really has going for him is his recentness. His opposition is a character twice planned for Smash before, and the second most popular character in a region where popularity usually dictates the majority of the roster, and where the series gained its popularity from, and where Sakurai will look when choosing a FE character.

Xenoblade isn't at the level of several series that didn't even get representation in Brawl. Yes, it's critically acclaimed, and a great game, but Shulk's popularity is limited, his game's audience is limited, and his competition (in other unrepresented series) is fairly strong as well. However, he does have a fair bit of popularity in some circles, and he is one of the more prominent unrepresented IPs, however no more so than many other unrepresented IPs. Decent is still better than average.

Really though, the fact that teenage Isaac isn't anywhere on your list, not even under mediocre chance, is really incredible. And not in the good way. Same as you thinking Travis and Aeron have the same chance as Isaac and Saki. New IPs do not just get added because they exist. The new (non-retro) IPs added so far (past 64) are Fire Emblem, Wario, and Pikmin. Do you think Pandora's Tower is even close to them? Xenoblade isn't even close to them. GS is just within reach of Pikmin (it probably won't be after Pikmin 3), but even then, it'll be lucky if we get more than like three new (non-retro, non-3rd party) IPs this time around, and one will definitely be Punch-Out.

Anyway, with expectations and predictions like this, prepare for the roster to be a disappointment for you.

1. I said I could still see Isaac, I just feel they would go with adult self. Doesn't matter which version though.

2. I just can't see Saki over Isa. More recent, the localized hero physically, and his moveset would be impacted by the jetpack.

3. Yes, Chrom does have a decent (not high) chance. But he does still have quite the chance because of his game's popularity. He is above Roy because of that.

4. Xenoblade is popular, especially outside of America. Shulk is a well liked character, he has a good shot.

5. Teenage Isaac is possible, but it is no guarantee we will get that version if he is in. Which a lot of people are betting on it appears

6. No, I am not saying that about Travis and Aeron. But I am saying they are more likely than what people give them. Suda is likely to go to Sakurai, and No More Heroes was one of the biggest new 3rd party IPs on the Wii. Aeron could be a possible choice, evne if an AT, because of his moveset potential and being a new Nintendo IP.

7. Nope, I don't see Pandora's Tower next to them. But is semi high on the list.

8. I say around 3-5 new IPs (non retro and 3rd party). If I had to give my choices they would be Golden Sun, Sin & Punishment, Punchout, Wii series, and Xenoblade.

9. It is not like all of my predictions are very high on my want to see list. My higher ups are Ghirahim, Shulk, Micaiah, Isa, and Mega-Man. All of them have a chance. Three of them a good chance.

If the roster is a disappointment to me, it will be. I am just looking at the past three games and trying to come up with what is possible. Ever since I saw ECCWii's video on YouTube at the end of 2011, it slightly impacted my views on what the roster could be. My time on Facebook, IGN, and here (the SmashBoards) have helped my view on stuff as well.