Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

[DragonSniperNintendo]

^ Sounds like a pretty good move-set

 

[Diddy Kong]

I made a well detailed Isaac moveset quite some time ago, when the old thread was still around. Lost it about 3 times, but could TRY to look it up... It even had pictures and all.

 

[Opossum]

Didn't I find it a few pages back, Diddy? Minus the pictures, do to not being able to use the quote option on a closed thread.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yes I see you did. Found it now, thanks! Leaving the pictures out this time, fans should know what they'd look like.

Isaac moveset:

Spoiler

B: Ragnarok. Isaac / Matthew charge up their blade similary in fashion like the FE characters would (but with no freedom of letting go like them) and casts a huge sword-like projectile out of it about a Bowser and a half wide (with an awesome sweetspot in the very middle) about 2 characters in front of him. The move would be as slow almost as Ganondorf's Warlock Punch, but has around the same knockback (weaker still) and does a whopping 28~32% when sweetspotted. 19~22% if a little off, 10~14% at the very end of the move). The move would probably have some super armor as well at the last few frames of the move.


Up B: Growth. Plants grow out of the ground to attack, or grow around a ledge for Isaac to climb back to the stage (working similary to a ladder). The plants would cause a slight sort of trapping effect, and do around 5% damage, but could be a good set up for a stronger attack. The higher the other character's %, the longer they stay trapped kinda similar to how ZZS's stun works, but this one is somewhat weaker. You can escape the plants by jumping.


Side B: I'd want to put Move here, but I kinda dislike the idea of it being an attack for him so... I say this should be Stone Spire, a ranged charge up move involving stone spires falling out of the sky on an opponent. If charged for a little, just one Spire comes out, and does about 12~14% damage, and could be considered as Isaac's main projectile, as it'd be coming out as fast as PK Fire would (except it being slightly stronger and with shorter range). Charged up somewhat longer and Isaac would cast 2 Spires next to each other, each doing about 12~14% damage. Charged up fully Isaac would cast a total of 4 Spires, and the effect would be similar to Charizard's Rock Smash on earlier %s, and would have nice knockback.


Down B: Gaia. A moveable projectile you can aim at the ground, where you can create an earthy erruption out of when releasing B. Like Stone Spire, you can actually build up damage as well when holding B, but this one lacks the sheer power you can build up with Stone Spire, but it can trap better, and requires a little more skill even. It's a option only usable on SOLID ground, so not on small platforms, it can also be done around edges, but not OVER the edges as it needs ground to be preformed. And it's strongest or most effective when a character is on the ground as well. It's actually like a moveable mine of sorts, and can be as strong depending on how long you hold B. It's the same kind of story with Stone Spire, hold B briefly and release and Gaia would be a small erruption, covering about 1.5 a Mario wide and does 11~14% if the opponent gets trapped in fully. Hold it longer and you'd have Mother Gaia which'd already cover 3 Mario's wide and could do 16~18%, hold if for the longest and you have Grand Gaia, which is a massive attack doing 23~27% and delivers great knockback if the opponents gets trapped in the move fully. As a general rule with this move, the stones comming out of the erruption do the building up damage, would work KIND OF similar to the Smart Bombs.


General playstyle of Isaac would be harder to learn than most characters, as his ranged attacks are his biggest assets. His Psynergy is rather slow, but are very good setups, a small Gaia spell could be cast into a stronger Spire spell, or otherwise. He'd be highly unpredictable, but at the same time, rather slow and furnable while casting spells. He wouldn't like projectile spam himself either, but Isaac has a strong big shield to protect himself with (like, Mewtwo's big shield but slightly smaller) and a normal Spire would be fast enough to counter back with most of the time.

He's highly versitale in his B moves, and his A moves would mostly consist of sword attacks. His sword would be a little longer than Toon Link's, and are mostly swift attacks with only a few moves you can effectively kill with. As a Venus Adept he fights the best on the ground, and would perhaps have a below average aerial game and jumps. He also would be a tad lighter than Marth, but shorter as well. He would mainly be good at egdeguarding, and KOing characters from the side of the screen, not from the top. His grab game is above average though and his throws go far and do good damage, and could possibly be ranged if they implenent the Move ability from him in it (it wouldn't go as far as in Brawl, but rather about a character in front of him) to counter these seeminly broken grabs, if Isaac would miss a grab, there is some serious lag involved. His running speed is about as fast as Luigi's, maybe a little faster even. Overall he's a character you have to play with smarts, but he can be highly effective if used well. His Psynergy is powerful and great for setting up combos, but he's still rather fragile, and even though he has some speed you have to watch out for lag often.

EDIT: As a Final Smash, it must be Judgement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iHwgkwtMUY

I feel Djinni could also make part of Isaac's Smash moves, having their own gimmick that they need to 'recharge' to use the move as strongly as before. Isaac should have a dangerous ground game, but he'd be weak in the air. His aerials are similar to Roy's in usage, yet not quite as fast, but with a little better reach (counting Roy's sweetspots, otherwise they have lower overall range). And his air speed would also be rather sluggish.

 

[kikaru]

It would be interesting to see his final smash be based off of Djinn usage. For example, if we assigned Summon Djinn as Isaac's neutral B he could cycle between at least four Djinn all performing different attacks, we could then base his final smash off of a summon. (So depending on the number of Djinn used the final smash could be different.)

Venus, Ramses, Cybele, and Judgment would be interesting final smashes.

 

[N3ON]

I feel Djinni could also make part of Isaac's Smash moves, having their own gimmick that they need to 'recharge' to use the move as strongly as before. Isaac should have a dangerous ground game, but he'd be weak in the air. His aerials are similar to Roy's in usage, yet not quite as fast, but with a little better reach (counting Roy's sweetspots, otherwise they have lower overall range). And his air speed would also be rather sluggish.

Good moveset!

Interesting thought about incorporating the Djinn into Isaac's Smash attacks. How exactly would you image they would effect his Smash attacks? Do you think the effect of the Djinn would work similarly to the Djinn section I wrote in the OP, or would the Smash attack just increase in power the less often you did it? Djinn really don't get brought up as often as other aspects of Isaac's potential moveset, so I'd be interested in hearing how other people think they could work.

It would be interesting to see his final smash be based off of Djinn usage. For example, if we assigned Summon Djinn as Isaac's neutral B he could cycle between at least four Djinn all performing different attacks, we could then base his final smash off of a summon. (So depending on the number of Djinn used the final smash could be different.)

Venus, Ramses, Cybele, and Judgment would be interesting final smashes.

Again, interesting to hear your thoughts on Djinni usage. I've heard the Djinn brought up a couple times in regards to swapping them to change Isaac's whole special moveset (which isn't how he'd end up getting implemented, unless Sakurai wants to create like 16 different specials for Isaac - which, granted, would be awesome ). Having them relegated to one special makes a whole lot more sense, as he could still use his more iconic Psynergy moves as his other specials and attacks.

I'm guessing you pictured cycling between four Venus Djinn, as you listed the Venus summons, (which is a great idea, it would be very interesting to have a character with a "chargeable" - for lack of a better word - Final Smash. It'd almost be like... dare I say... PSASBR. ), but I personally think another interesting option would be to have four Djinn each representing a different element, which would probably give Isaac a more varied special, and could also contribute to different FSs, depending on the previous Djinn usage. (Not that the FS would have a totally different effect - that also would be too much programming -- I picture more minor differences, like ground/fire/electric/ice damage and aesthetic changes, however it would still feel very varied and would represent the series very well).

Either way, good idea, I never thought about giving "levels" to Isaac's FS.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Isaac's main costume in SSB4 (if he is chosen and not Matthew)

Seriously, just wait until Doc Louis, Professor Elm, Fi, and Snake's Codecs talk about that beard

 

[N3ON]

Isaac's main costume in SSB4 (when he is chosen and not Matthew)

Spoiler

I will miss hearing a potential conversation about beards in Snake's codec though.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Isaac's main costume in SSB4 (when he is chosen and not Matthew)

Spoiler

I will miss hearing a potential conversation about beards in Snake's codec though.

And the reason that version is picked is because?

And that Matthew might not get picked?

I can still see Isaac, but he needs his beard, but Isa will definitely get in over HIS dad.

 

[Ember Reaper]

And the reason that version is picked is because?

And that Matthew might not get picked?

I can still see Isaac, but he needs his beard, but Isa will definitely get in over HIS dad.

Because the younger version is more iconic and recognizable.

Because Isaac is more iconic and recognizable.

Saki still seems to be the face of the series, I've played both, but when I think sin and punishment I still think Saki. It should be the face of the series. Which is Isaac and Saki respectively.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Because the younger version is more iconic and recognizable.

Because Isaac is more iconic and recognizable.

Saki still seems to be the face of the series, I've played both, but when I think sin and punishment I still think Saki. It should be the face of the series. Which is Isaac and Saki respectively.

Maybe for Isaac, sure, but I can;t really say the same thing for Saki.

Plus they usually use the LATEST version of a character. For Isaac, it is that 30 something year old man with the awesome beard.

 

[N3ON]

Maybe for Isaac, sure, but I can;t really say the same thing for Saki.

Plus they usually use the LATEST version of a character. For Isaac, it is that 30 something year old man with the awesome beard.

They're not going to include Isaac's appearance as a supporting NPC at the beginning of a game over the iconic and playable appearance he had as central protagonist in two games (the games that actually caused the series to get popular and even have a chance at Smash inclusion), just because his minor adult appearance is more recent. If adult Isaac had a more major role and was playable in Dark Dawn, then it'd be possible, but his relatively small appearance won't eclipse the fact that his original design is the face of the series.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Wish I had played Dark Dawn. Was pretty damn excited for the game, and the fact you could play as Eoleo. Shame my DS broke... :/

About the Djinni usage in his Smash attacks, yeah, I don't expect much more than Djinn powered attacks being stronger. Not expecting summons to happen even though it would be the best thing ever.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

They're not going to include Isaac's appearance as a supporting NPC at the beginning of a game over the iconic and playable appearance he had as central protagonist in two games (the games that actually caused the series to get popular and even have a chance at Smash inclusion), just because his minor adult appearance is more recent. If adult Isaac had a more major role and was playable in Dark Dawn, then it'd be possible, but his relatively small appearance won't eclipse the fact that his original design is the face of the series.

But still, that IS his recent appearance

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

But still, that IS his recent appearance

I thought N3ON already broke that argument there when explaining all the reasons why they wouldn't necessarily opt for that appearance?

 

[N3ON]

Ok, so with the 2nd-party discussion nonsense that happened a while ago in the Roster Discussion Thread, I thought I would get around to adding another argument based on that to the argument/counterargument section (Isaac won’t be included/has decreased chances because he is a 2nd party character). Only three weeks after the debate!
So, if you have the time, give it a read, and let me know if you agree or not.

I also tweaked a previous argument (I was unhappy with how I structured it and thought it was just mediocre anyway) and well as some other minor edits. Oh! I also added an Isaac header at the top of the OP. I'll post it again here, because it took more time than I thought it would.

[collapse=Isaac Header]

[/collapse]
Hopefully you guys like it.
edit: I know that's not how shadows work, but when I made the shadow realistic it didn't look as good aesthetically, so just pretend there are two sources of light hitting Isaac.

When I get a little more free time I'll be doing a few more additions and changes to the OP, but until then, Isaac for SSB4! ^_^

 

[SmashShadow]

Major respect to you N3ON as you have the best OP and actually take the time to update it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

That's very sexy indeed. Especially like that logo for Golden Sun! I wonder, have you already made a moveset for Isaac N3ON? First post is looking great to btw.

And if you want you can take my moveset in the first post of coarse. Also like the moveset Chrono made, but didn't like the choice of Punji Strike. Could better have been Thorn, or Gaia or something more Earth-related. But Retreat as a recovery is very clever. Wonder why I decided using Growth with such an example around? But yeah, just shows the potential.

Isaac 4 Smash!!

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I thought N3ON already broke that argument there when explaining all the reasons why they wouldn't necessarily opt for that appearance?

Although the most recent appearance, or one of, is typically what would show up.

Like the Fire Red and Leaf Green RED getting in instead of the original, or Path of Radiance Ike (since Brawl was Gamecube and GBA).

 

[SmashShadow]

Although the most recent appearance, or one of, is typically what would show up.

Like the Fire Red and Leaf Green RED getting in instead of the original, or Path of Radiance Ike (since Brawl was Gamecube and GBA).

The difference between those though is minor when you compare a 25+ year difference in age from the original. Changing in appearance is one thing but an age gap of that magnitude from his more well know and popular self is a completely different kind of change. The changes you're talking about are extremely subtle in comparison. If they were going for recent than they would add Matthew and not 47 year old Isaac.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

The difference between those though is minor when you compare a 25+ year difference in age from the original. Changing in appearance is one thing but an age gap of that magnitude from his more well know and popular self is a completely different kind of change. The changes you're talking about are extremely subtle in comparison. If they were going for recent than they would add Matthew and not 47 year old Isaac.

Which is the reason I say it will be Matthew instead of Isaac. Same thing applies to Isa Jo as well.

But if Isaac got in, his adult self would be it and they would make a move-set to accommodate it.

 

[N3ON]

Major respect to you N3ON as you have the best OP and actually take the time to update it.

That's very sexy indeed. Especially like that logo for Golden Sun! I wonder, have you already made a moveset for Isaac N3ON? First post is looking great to btw.

Thanks you guys! ^_^
It's great to hear some feedback from other supporters. And yeah, I do try to keep the OP updated at least semi-regularly (though I kinda forget to in Oct-Nov ) to keep the Isaac support going, and possibly get some new supporters interested in Isaac and/or GS. Now it seems to have, for the most part, boiled down to mostly the "core" supporters, but that's cool too, as we'll be the ones happiest when Isaac gets in SSB4!

And no, I haven't made a moveset for Isaac yet Diddy, but I might be having some plans to...
Of course, I don't want to half-*** it, and I want to give it the detail it deserves and really try to capture as much of Isaac's potential as I can, so it might still be a wait.

And if you want you can take my moveset in the first post of coarse. Also like the moveset Chrono made, but didn't like the choice of Punji Strike. Could better have been Thorn, or Gaia or something more Earth-related. But Retreat as a recovery is very clever. Wonder why I decided using Growth with such an example around? But yeah, just shows the potential.

Isaac 4 Smash!!

Sure, next time I change up the OP I'll add your moveset to it.
And yeah, Retreat is the recovery I'll be using in my moveset (I'm not copying you Chrono -- I had the idea too ), but I also liked your Growth-based recovery idea as well, I think creating a ladder would be a very interesting mechanic that really hasn't been taken advantage of yet, with any character.

For other people with movesets: I probably won't be putting any more movesets in the OP after this (except mine, because I'm selfish ), because it makes it difficult to edit and change things, but I appreciate everyone sharing their movesets here, and I hope you guys continue to share if you have something! There are really sooo many options for a GS character's moveset, every moveset is unique and different.

Which is the reason I say it will be Matthew instead of Isaac. Same thing applies to Isa Jo as well.

But if Isaac got in, his adult self would be it and they would make a move-set to accommodate it.

Out of curiosity, have you taken anybody's advice on your roster/character picks at all? Or do you still have the exact same views that you always have? People have offered you some genuinely useful constructive criticism, not just to do with Isaac/Matthew/GS, but in general, and I haven't really seen you accept or embrace any views that differ from yours. Not the best mentality to have, no one is right all the time.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Duude N30N, your OP makes me drool over. Gosh, if I could make mine in Lip-support thread as cool as yours sometime. Astounding job.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Thanks you guys! ^_^
It's great to hear some feedback from other supporters. And yeah, I do try to keep the OP updated at least semi-regularly (though I kinda forget to in Oct-Nov ) to keep the Isaac support going, and possibly get some new supporters interested in Isaac and/or GS. Now it seems to have, for the most part, boiled down to mostly the "core" supporters, but that's cool too, as we'll be the ones happiest when Isaac gets in SSB4!

And no, I haven't made a moveset for Isaac yet Diddy, but I might be having some plans to...
Of course, I don't want to half-*** it, and I want to give it the detail it deserves and really try to capture as much of Isaac's potential as I can, so it might still be a wait.



Sure, next time I change up the OP I'll add your moveset to it.
And yeah, Retreat is the recovery I'll be using in my moveset (I'm not copying you Chrono -- I had the idea too ), but I also liked your Growth-based recovery idea as well, I think creating a ladder would be a very interesting mechanic that really hasn't been taken advantage of yet, with any character.

For other people with movesets: I probably won't be putting any more movesets in the OP after this (except mine, because I'm selfish ), because it makes it difficult to edit and change things, but I appreciate everyone sharing their movesets here, and I hope you guys continue to share if you have something! There are really sooo many options for a GS character's moveset, every moveset is unique and different.



Out of curiosity, have you taken anybody's advice on your roster/character picks at all? Or do you still have the exact same views that you always have? People have offered you some genuinely useful constructive criticism, not just to do with Isaac/Matthew/GS, but in general, and I haven't really seen you accept or embrace any views that differ from yours. Not the best mentality to have, no one is right all the time.

I have taken advice on some things, yes, but it never really affects the majority of my roster. In fact after seeing some move-sets and whatnot, I am now a pretty big supporter of the Balloon Fighter. It is more of changing my thoughts rather than changing my roster for the most part).

I know everyone is different, it is pretty clear with everyone on this board, and I know you can't be right all the time. However all I am doing is giving my thoughts on how I feel it should be done (namely with the few rosters you typically hear me talking about such as Fire Emblem and Sin & Punishment).

These things include not overrun the Pokemon roster with Gen 1 and not having only swords in Fire Emblem.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I have a partial moveset along with a codec call. I made it quite some time ago, but I thought it was worth posting.

Possible Moveset:
Neutral B: Isaac will stand in place and charge his sword. The sword can have three degrees of charge. When releasing the button Isaac will stab the opponent. If it hits, a flashy animation happens. If not, he simply stabs forward. If Isaac hits in the first charge, Ragnarok (A Giant Energy Sword) will apear in the stab animation. If Isaac hits with the second charge, Two Ragnarok will come out. If Isaac hit with the third charge, Oddessy (Three Giant Energy Swords) will happen.

Side B: Isaac casts Move. Isaac will shoot a small hand from his hand and will push the opponent back. This will do no damage. Great for edgeguarding.

Up B: Isaac casts retreat. Isaac will teleport to a different place depending on where the control stick is tilted.

Down B: Isaac casts quake. Isaac will slam his fist into the ground and have two pillars of earth appear behind and in front of him. This attack will launch enemies straight up.

Final Smash: Isaac summons Judgement who flies into the background. Judgement will charge a giant energy ball for and fire at the stage. The ball is about half the size of Final Destination. This has about as much knock back as Zelda's Light Arrows but a MUCH bigger range. However, the energy ball is always aimed at the center of the stage.

Images made by Pwnagemaster67

Codec Call!

Snake: "Mei Ling... There's another kid with a sword here."
Mei Ling: "Ah... This one's a bit different than the others. His name is Isaac and he's a Venus Adept."
Snake: "Venus Adept? He's from space?!?"
Mei Ling: "No... He's from a mountain village called Vale where people learn how to use Psyenergy. It's kind of like magic and psychic ability combined. There are four kinds of Psyenegry, each one representing a certain element. Isaac is a Venus Adept so he specializes on earth magic."
Snake: "Earth magic huh... Well that's new."

 

[Diddy Kong]

Whoa, awesome dude! Nice descriptions as well. I wish I thought up for that for Ragnarok! Wanna play dat Isaac now man.

About his chances... How big do you all ought is the chance Isaac gets in? Personally, I think he's easily one of the most popular Assist Trophy characters, but there are so many new characters that rival him now. I feel almost hopeless now for Isaac. Which really sucks, as Golden Sun is the ONLY new series not in Smash I wanted in badly. All other character I support are mostly from series already in Smash. I estimate Isaac's chances are at 30% now...

I will still always support the idea for him in Smash though. Really hoping we get a new Golden Sun at E3, but that won't probably happen in another 5 years or so...

 

[kikaru]

Initially I had his B^ be Catch and act as a tether but I didn't even consider Retreat. I like that idea!

Possible final smashes could be:
Summon Judgment
Summon level 1-4 Venus summons based off his neutral B usage (Possible charge attack that cycles through different Dijinn.)
Ragnarok (You knew the first time you saw this skill that it was jaw droppingly amazing)
And of course, Meggido. In this case Isacc's default weapon will be the Sol Blade.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I had Growth as a tether based recovery. Catch could also work yeah... Heck, I've seen Planet Driver being suggested as Up B lot's of times to. But I think I'd prefer Isaac to be mostly Earth Psynergy based. Though seeing how Ness and Lucas' movesets are in Smash, it's no wonder people suggest so many different sorts of Psynergy for Isaac. He might as well use Whirlwind for Up B and it could work!

Also N3ON just read your fist post again, and noticed you said Isaac in Dark Dawn had the most dialoge out of all his appearances. Is that true though? Cause he actually talks a lot in TLA. Never played Dark Dawn, but know Isaac only appears in the beginning so... Was just wondering?

 

[N3ON]

Great moveset Swampasaur! ^_^
It captures Isaac well with the focus on Venus psynergy. The only problem with every moveset is that no matter how much awesome stuff you include, it never seems like you can fit Isaac's full potential in!

Snake thinking he's from Venus also made me laugh.

About his chances... How big do you all ought is the chance Isaac gets in? Personally, I think he's easily one of the most popular Assist Trophy characters, but there are so many new characters that rival him now. I feel almost hopeless now for Isaac. Which really sucks, as Golden Sun is the ONLY new series not in Smash I wanted in badly. All other character I support are mostly from series already in Smash. I estimate Isaac's chances are at 30% now...

I will still always support the idea for him in Smash though. Really hoping we get a new Golden Sun at E3, but that won't probably happen in another 5 years or so...

I'd say Isaac isn't absolutely the most likely character, but I think he's still one of the most likely candidates for a new series rep. IMO Little Mac is definitely the most likely, but honestly I still think that Golden Sun is the next unrepresented series (other than AC, Nintendogs, and Wii) that has had the biggest overall impact, even if not in recent times, which Sakurai values the most. Hell, Sakurai doesn't look at series inclusion based on recentness, or at least he doesn't prioritize recentness above everything, or else Samus and Ness (both who hadn't received a new game in over five years) probably wouldn't have made it into 64, and FE (which was at a fairly low point reception-wise) wouldn't have made it, not only into Melee, but with the original protagonist who hadn't been in a game for, again, five years. It's evident that he looks at the overall impact the series had, which is why Samus, Ness, and Marth still stood out, and I think at this point the same can be said for Golden Sun.

I won't pretend that Isaac hasn't had better and more likely times, but I wouldn't totally give up hope yet.
I'd still put his chances at 50/50, but of course, I'm optimistic. I really feel the only characters that rival him are Little Mac, Shulk, and (if Sakurai is of the proper mindset) Mii. I still think he's a league or more above Saki/Starfy/Dillon/etc.

And yeah, I'd kill for a new GS. They can't leave it like this...

I had Growth as a tether based recovery. Catch could also work yeah... Heck, I've seen Planet Driver being suggested as Up B lot's of times to. But I think I'd prefer Isaac to be mostly Earth Psynergy based. Though seeing how Ness and Lucas' movesets are in Smash, it's no wonder people suggest so many different sorts of Psynergy for Isaac. He might as well use Whirlwind for Up B and it could work!

At least Isaac can actually use most of those psynergies in the game, unlike Ness.
But yeah, I think a Venus-oriented moveset with occasional attacks from other elements is probably the most likely.

Also N3ON just read your fist post again, and noticed you said Isaac in Dark Dawn had the most dialoge out of all his appearances. Is that true though? Cause he actually talks a lot in TLA. Never played Dark Dawn, but know Isaac only appears in the beginning so... Was just wondering?

Well, Isaac definitely speaks more in TLA than in the original, where I think he says all of "Yes" a couple times.

I'd still say he speaks the most in Dark Dawn though. It's partly because the dialogue in TLA was split up between all four of his party members, but in DD he's the one that teaches you how to use Psynergy and Djinn and everything, as well as sort of setting up the plot (or at least sending the party on their way) so he does a lot of explaining IIRC, with a few interjections from Garet. Plus you know how characters ramble on in Golden Sun intros...

Either way, it's true that he's really only silent in the first game, so I might get around to editing that some time.

 

[FlareHabanero]

"Issac seems likely" seems like a bit of repeating history to me. People said that during the days of Brawl, and that hardly came into fruition. The lack of content for Golden Sun as a whole should be a clear sign that the staff don't treasure the series that much like some people think, and this is despite the fact that Golden Sun has preformed much better then a handful of Nintendo's other IPs over the years.

Also your're forgetting about Takamaru. Retro or not, Mysterious Murasame Castle still counts as a new series for representation. Also possibly some random stuff here and there like Mach Rider and Sheriff, those count too.

Also I resent the statement about Golden Sun being a league ahead of The Legendary Starfy.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Thanks everyone!

If I may ask something, why do you think Sakurai only asked Camelot for the rights to Isaac (his trophy) and one piece of music? GS didn't even get a single sticker. Anyone have any ideas as to why it was so terribly unrepresented?

 

[3Bismyname]

Thanks everyone!

If I may ask something, why do you think Sakurai only asked Camelot for the rights to Isaac (his trophy) and one piece of music? GS didn't even get a single sticker. Anyone have any ideas as to why it was so terribly unrepresented?

well correct me if im wrong but didn't Sakurai make a comment saying something along the lines of "The only series I think warrant a character are Animal Crossing and Pikmin." I swear i heard that somewhere. if that's the case than that would be why we didnt get Isaac for Brawl. as to why it got repped the way it did. idk. it is what it is.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well N3ON, that did give me a bit more confidence about Isaac! And 50/50 sounds reasonable actually. Golden Sun 4 really needs to happen!

And Habanero, why come here just to say that? Isaac did got in in fact with an Assist Trophy, a trophy and some awesome music. Thusfar, this is more than Takamaru and Mysterious Murasame Castle have. Even though I do agree Takamaru is more likely at this point. But more as a retro rep. Not too sure if we should add them to 'new series' reps, but yeah, it'd obviously be a new series presented in Smash.

 

[N3ON]

"Issac seems likely" seems like a bit of repeating history to me. People said that during the days of Brawl, and that hardly came into fruition. The lack of content for Golden Sun as a whole should be a clear sign that the staff don't treasure the series that much like some people think, and this is despite the fact that Golden Sun has preformed much better then a handful of Nintendo's other IPs over the years.

Just because a character is likely doesn't mean they're guaranteed. There will be characters we view as "likely" this time around that won't make it in as well. Plus during Brawl there were several series that were bigger than Isaac's, such as the Wario, Pikmin, and AC, so they're inclusion over his is perfectly understandable. No one (or at least no one logical) ever thought he was a shoo-in for Brawl, and he isn't a shoo-in now either. However, this time the bar is slightly lower, and the competition from other unrepresented series is more level (personally only Wii and Punch-Out are above GS IMO, but Xenoblade is another possibility).

As it's true that Golden Sun didn't receive too much content in Brawl, but that's really not enough information to base peoples' opinion of the series on. It's like when people assume Sakurai dislikes Starfy. The point was it did get more content than some other series, and it still was included in Smash, which would seem to dictate that the possibility is still open for the future. If Brawl was totally devoid of GS content, I'd agree that'd be worrisome. What we can assume is that Camelot is open to having GS content in Smash, and playability would ultimately come down to Sakurai, who's opinion we don't know. At least he thought GS content merited dealing with Camelot.

Also your forgetting about Takamaru. Retro or not, that still counts as a new series.

I didn't forget about Takamaru or other retros (or third-party new series) I just didn't include them because they don't really have the same prerequisites, competition, and conditions as non-retro unrepresented series. I agree Takamaru has a better chance than Isaac.

Thanks everyone!

If I may ask something, why do you think Sakurai only asked Camelot for the rights to Isaac (his trophy) and one piece of music? GS didn't even get a single sticker. Anyone have any ideas as to why it was so terribly unrepresented?

I don't think we can safely presume to know exactly what Sakurai asked of Camelot, all we know is that is what we ended up with GS-content-wise in Brawl, which I agree is low. It's possible Sakurai had some trouble dealing with the 2nd party, it's also possible Sakurai really didn't think GS merited more than what it got (which would be unfortunate). Hell, it's even possible GS was originally planned for more (it could've even been that new series that got yanked), and Sakurai quickly just shuffled some things around and removed some things. He did mention he couldn't include all playable Nintendo characters he wanted to due to legal issues... (though that's just a guess, chances are we'll never know what exactly he was referring to)

It's also possible there could've been some legal issues surrounding the artwork, which is why we didn't get more stickers. I noticed we didn't get any Sugimori Pokemon art, and that's also a 2nd party, so that could be a possibility. We still did get several different forms of GS content though, so I wouldn't fret too much.

 

[FlareHabanero]

And Habanero, why come here just to say that?

Because people said that the whole Golden Sun is likely thing is in fact true, when in reality it's not. Issac has actually a pretty bad chance if the staff don't think that Golden Sun is anything worth bothering with, hence why the content is very minimum to begin with. Golden Sun: Dark Dawn is likely not going to change opinions ether at this rate.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Because people said that the whole Golden Sun is likely thing is in fact true, when in reality it's not. Issac has actually a pretty bad chance if the staff don't think that Golden Sun is anything worth bothering with, hence why the content is very minimum to begin with. Golden Sun: Dark Dawn is likely not going to change opinions ether at this rate.

Well, now that I think about it, was Punch Out Wii as well received as the originals where? If not, what would make Little Mac anything more likely than Isaac? That'd put them both in the same situation. And that'd make only retro characters good worthy new additions as far as new series characters go. :/

I want Isaac. He's awesome. And has seriously awesome moveset potential.

 

[N3ON]

Because people said that the whole Golden Sun is likely thing is in fact true, when in reality it's not. Issac has actually a pretty bad chance if the staff don't think that Golden Sun is anything worth bothering with, hence why the content is very minimum to begin with. Golden Sun: Dark Dawn is likely not going to change opinions ether at this rate.

Or it could be that they gave precedence to series that merited inclusion more than Golden Sun, and now that those series have been included, and the bar is lower for remaining series, Golden Sun now is one of the largest remaining series, impact-wise.

Plus they bothered programming the AT and remixing a song which requires more effort than the content just represented through past artwork and ripping a model.

Now it's a totally different landscape new-series wise (ignoring retros and third-parties - they're in a different category). Series that previously came secondary will now be re-evaluated and it's inevitable that some will wind up with more content than they had in Brawl.

 

[TheCreator]

I would like to see mature Isaac, but if mathew made it I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed.
Dark dawn wasn't all that great to be honest though

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Yeah either Matthew or Adult Isaac

 

[Deleted member]

As interesting as Isaac may be, Habanero's got a point.
Sakurai mentioned that the only series since 2001 that warranted a character were Pikmin and Animal Crossing.

If that's how he felt, then it meant that he didn't view Golden Sun the same way. And if that's how he felt in the series' hayday, then it's highly unlikely Dark Dawn would have changed his mind.