Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

[Curious Villager]

Kikwi-Kiwi: GS-series are known to be pretty chatty. (Tolbi-arc in GS1... gosh.) But from what I think, they're much on the less side, since I never played DD yet and heard it's actually more chattier.

Well so long as they don't continually slow my progress down like Dark Dawn did, or at least are a little more interesting I guess I can give them a try someday. ^^

Honestly, all the GS games have a fair bit of chatter. It can be kind of tedious to sit through, I can see where you're coming from, but personally I found the gameplay and the story to be fun and rewarding enough that I didn't mean sitting through conversations and explanations. Granted, after playing it a couple times, I now just skip most of the talking.

The games aren't for everyone though, hopefully if you manage to get around to playing the first two you do find redeeming qualities.

Hmm.. Well okay then, I guess I'll give them a second chance. I'll try out the first two once I get around to it. I'm not the type to throw an entire franchise aside just because one of them didn't appeal to me. Especially if it's other games seem to get higher praise. So I guess I'll have another go through one of the first two games this time. ^^

 

[N3ON]

@Kikwi-Kiwi
In the first games I felt that the dialogue lasted longer when it happened, but long conversations overall happened less. So it'll slow down your game when it happens (even more than in DD), but it'll happen less, if that makes any sense.

At least, that was my experience. I was pretty young when I first played through the first two, so everything seemed to take a long time back then.

 

[Curious Villager]

@Kikwi-Kiwi
In the first games I felt that the dialogue lasted longer when it happened, but long conversations overall happened less. So it'll slow down you're game when it happens (even more than in DD), but it'll happen less, if that makes any sense.

At least, that was my experience. I was pretty young when I first played through the first two, so everything seemed to take a long time back then.

So you mean longer conversations do happen, but they occur less? I think I can live with that. ^^ So long as it doesn't happen every little while it's okay by me.

I'll see how things go when I get around to play them.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I highly suggest trying the older titles IMO. I've heard TLA improves a lot on predecessor and since that one was quite good (for a standard traditional RPG), it's quite a plus.

 

[N3ON]

So you mean longer conversations do happen, but they occur less? I think I can live with that. ^^ So long as it doesn't happen every little while it's okay by me.

I'll see how things go when I get around to play them.

Yeah, at least from my memory, the conversations seemed to last longer (especially at the beginning of the first one), but once you get into the main part of the games it really flows better.

Of course, once you try them out, you might have a different experience, but I'd still say they're worth a play.

I highly suggest trying the older titles IMO. I've heard TLA improves a lot on predecessor and since that one was quite good (for a standard traditional RPG), it's quite a plus.

Agreed, plus TLA (eventually) lets you play as eight characters instead of four, so you can mix and match how you want to. I'd still definitely start with the first one though, especially since you can transfer the progress you've made on your characters to the second.

-----------------------

I'm also going to post this again, because it was sort of at the bottom of the last page, and I'd like as many people to see this as possible:

So… it’s kinda been a while since this thread saw some activity.
With several other character topics getting bumped recently, I thought I would pose this question to people to perhaps re-ignite some Isaac and GS discussion:

Do you think that Isaac’s hypothetical potential inclusion in SSB4 will be both his last decent chance at inclusion, and do you think that without being included, his series (which IMO seems to now be dangerously dangling on the edge of permanent dormancy) would ever receive a follow-up? Basically, do you feel that Isaac’s (or Matthew’s) possible inclusion in Smash is the only (likely) way of keeping his series afloat? It’s no secret that Dark Dawn, while not horribly received or anything, didn’t nearly match the level the previous two games did, critically, commercially, or popularity-wise, especially in Japan.

Personally, I feel that even without a GS character being included in Smash, there's no definitive way we can say another GS will never happen, though honestly I do find it unlikely. The fanbase is shrinking, and Camelot always has their Mario sports games to fall back on that do much better commercially anyway. So, while not impossible by any means, I’m not going to hold out hope for a sequel in the current situation, and I feel that Isaac’s inclusion in SSB4 might be the only way the precipitate a future for the series.

It should go without saying that if a Golden Sun character isn’t included this time around, and they (unsurprisingly) do not get a sequel in between SSB4 and whenever the next Smash game comes out, the chance of it still getting a character will be very small, practically nothing. So this could very possibly be the last chance for a GS character to ride the diminishing wave of impact the original games left before they completely miss the boat.

Sadly, this IMO can be said about several of Nintendo’s C-List series, not just Golden Sun, however this is the Isaac thread, and I do believe that out of the series with unsure futures (and no current playable representation), Golden Sun still has a better chance at getting a character than most of them. Smash really does act as a beacon of popularity, but as Sakurai clearly doesn’t add characters for the purpose of them retaining popularity or ensuring their future, it’s not like Sakurai will include a C-list series character to keep them “safe”. The character choices are still based on individual merit, which the GS protagonists certainly have, but frankly not any more than a lot of other potential newcomers. It really does seem like a toss-up right now, inclusion wise. However, unlike some characters with sound futures, Golden Sun could hang in the balance.

Anyway, I think that’s enough of my alarmist rant, I’d be very interested to hear what others think. So please, sound off, do you believe this is Isaac’s (or Matthew’s) last time with a decent chance at inclusion? Do you believe the fate of Golden Sun hinges on inclusion in Smash? Do you think a sequel is possible any other way? Please feel free to share your thoughts.

(tl;dr) Do you think this is Isaac's last chance at inclusion considering the series' very shaky future? And do you think that inclusion in Smash is the only way the Golden Sun series can continue? Please share...

 

[Curious Villager]

Yeah, at least from my memory, the conversations seemed to last longer (especially at the beginning of the first one), but once you get into the main part of the games it really flows better.

Of course, once you try them out, you might have a different experience, but I'd still say they're worth a play.

Oh that sounds good then. Guess I should include the first two Golden Sun games into my yet-to-play-or-finish games list. Thanks. ^^

Also I don't think this smash will be his last chance of being playable though. Smash is after all, a celebration of Nintendo's history old and new and Golden Sun is a part of it. And seeing the fact Isaac was recognisable enough to become an assist trophy, I would say Sakurai may be willing to bring him up a step higher by making him playable this time. And if not, well, there is alway's next time I suppose. =/ But he's still more likely than any third party since he's one of Nintendo's protagonists, if not him then Matthew. That's just my views on the matter though. =/

I won't deny though that having a series repped in smash can increase the likelyhood of said franchise receiving at least one new game. It happened for Kid Icarus, Sin & Punishment, Punch Out and even Golden Sun itself. Fire Emblem also got its games released to the west and there may also be a chance of the same thing happening for the entire Mother trilogy. I guess you can say smash is quite the advertisement for forgotten, obscure, Japanese and old classic games.

 

[Arcadenik]

The first Golden Sun always bore me to sleep whenever I replay the game from the beginning at Vale. Oh god, the Vale prologue got to be the worst. I just want to play, not read. If there is one weakness in the entire Golden Sun series, it is the tl;dr dialogue. OMG, just get to the point! No wonder the games didn't sell very well, especially with people who are new to the RPG genre and the Golden Sun series.

 

[N3ON]

Oh that sounds good then. Guess I should include the first two Golden Sun games into my yet-to-play-or-finish games list. Thanks. ^^

No problem, glad to have had even a little part in sharing Golden Sun with others. ^_^

Also I don't think this smash will be his last chance of being playable though. Smash is after all, a celebration of Nintendo's history old and new and Golden Sun is a part of it. And seeing the fact Isaac was recognisable enough to become an assist trophy, I would say Sakurai may be willing to bring him up a step higher by making him playable this time. And if not, well, there is alway's next time I suppose. =/ But he's still more likely than any third party since he's one of Nintendo's protagonists. That's just my views on the matter though. =/

I wish I had your optimism.

It's not so much that Golden Sun will be less deserving to get a rep by the time future Smash games roll around, it'll just be that other Nintendo series are much more deserving than GS at that point. Mixed with the fact that usually without consistent games, a large part of the vocal fanbase diminishes, which will really wreck Isaac's remaining popularity, and pretty much turn it into what is currently is in Japan, except worldwide. And Golden Sun, especially in recent times, isn't the kind of series that would get representation no matter what, just due to sheer prominence of the series, it would also require vocal support proving the popularity of a GS character.

I won't deny though that having a series repped in smash can increase the likelyhood of said franchise receiving at least one new game. It happened for Kid Icarus, Sin & Punishment, Punch Out and even Golden Sun itself. Fire Emblem also got its games released to the west and there may also be a chance of the same thing happening for the entire Mother trilogy. I guess you can say smash is quite the advertisement for forgotten, obscure, Japanese and old classic games.

Totally agreed, I will be very surprised if whatever retro character Sakurai ends up reviving (my bet's on Takamaru) doesn't get a follow-up game, even if it's done by Sakurai himself, à la Uprising. Hell, I'm surprised Ice Climbers haven't received any sort of follow-up, even just a small DSiWare/eShop game or something (which is honestly all I'm ever going to expect from that series).

The first Golden Sun always bore me to sleep whenever I replay the game from the beginning at Vale. Oh god, the Vale prologue got to be the worst. I just want to play, not read. If there is one weakness in the entire Golden Sun series, it is the tl;dr dialogue. OMG, just get to the point! No wonder the games didn't sell very well, especially with people who are new to the RPG genre and the Golden Sun series.

Yeah, sadly the prologue of GS1 really does dishearten some people, and I wouldn't be surprised if some rash people even walked away from the whole series because of it (expect a lot of reading and not-actually-playing Kikwi), but when you get past it, personally I feel the rest of the game more than made up for it.

However, the original GS games did sell very well, at least for handheld RPGs. GS1 sold 1.8 mil, and IIRC GS2 sold around 1.2 mil. Dark Dawn sold ~600k, which itself isn't horrible (certainly not a bomb like some people say), but comparatively it is low.

 

[Curious Villager]

No problem, glad to have had even a little part in sharing Golden Sun with others. ^_^

Alrighty. ^^

I wish I had your optimism.

It's not so much that Golden Sun will be less deserving to get a rep by the time future Smash games roll around, it'll just be that other Nintendo series are much more deserving than GS at that point. Mixed with the fact that usually without consistent games, a large part of the vocal fanbase diminishes, which will really wreck Isaac's remaining popularity, and pretty much turn it into what is currently is in Japan, except worldwide. And Golden Sun, especially in recent times, isn't the kind of series that would get representation no matter what, just due to sheer prominence of the series, it would also require vocal support proving the popularity of a GS character.

Well it wouldn't hurt to have a bit of hope. Sure the series may not be as high up as Mario, Pokemon and Zelda. Or even Fire Emblem, Wario Ware/Land, Kirby and Donkey Kong. The series was still recognisable enough to get something as an assist trophy. Which in my opinion is still quite a big thing for them. Sure you have the likes of Hammer Bro, Lakitu, Metroid, Mr. Resetti, Andross and Nintendog etc. The assist trophies could also be seen as teasers for future smash games. I can personally see Little Mac, Saki (or the guy from the Wii game),Isaac (or Matthew), Samurai Goroh, Starfy and Lyn being upgraded into a playable rep in the future. Possibly even in Smash 4. If I'm not mistaken, Sakurai did consider or wished to see some of the Assist trophies as playable reps first before he opted for the latter for whatever reasons. At least that's how he sounded like to me in the Smash Dojo (Especially with Saki and Waluigi)

Totally agreed, I will be very surprised if whatever retro character Sakurai ends up reviving (my bet's on Takamaru) doesn't get a follow-up game, even if it's done by Sakurai himself, à la Uprising. Hell, I'm surprised Ice Climbers haven't received any sort of follow-up, even just a small DSiWare/eShop game or something (which is honestly all I'm ever going to expect from that series).

Yeah I'm also kinda surprised that the Ice Climbers still didn't receive a new game yet. I know of a pretty nice concept for them. But that's for another thread.

Yeah, sadly the prologue of GS1 really does dishearten some people, and I wouldn't be surprised if some rash people even walked away from the whole series because of it (expect a lot of reading and not-actually-playing Kikwi), but when you get past it, personally I feel the rest of the game more than made up for it.

Well it's not that I disliked Dark Dawn as a whole. I actually loved the gameplay a lot. I liked the Dijin (that's what their called right?) and the music, combat as well as the boss fights were epic from what I remember. The only thing that put me off was the constant chattering that goes on every little while, slowing the game down to a point where I just decided to skim through them instead of reading every single word and those emotions things where annoying as they made the skimming through dialogue much slower than necessary. It was until I was at a part involving a ship where I had enough of the game and decided to trade it away. =/ It's a shame really, because I did enjoy the game itself, just wish they just get to the point when it came to the story.

Honestly, I think Golden Sun just really needs some proper animated cutscenes and maybe some voice acting to make things a bit more interesting. But that's just my opinion. =/

But like I said. I will give the first two a try sometime.

 

[Reyson]

Golden Sun on the WiiU where the conversations are voice-acted or acted out, could be something incredibly awesome.

I do agree with most of the things you guys have been saying, I want more franchises brought into Smash to give them more exposure to a broader audience. Smash has become such a large franchise on its own and has all the biggest Nintendo franchises in its game already that only 3rd party characters could pull in a bigger audience. Why not use it reinvigorate Nintendo franchises that never quite got as popular. It's not like they weren't good games, many of the lesser known franchises were critically acclaimed but they just never got the exposure so they never sold that well. It would be so sad if these great series get put into 'indefinite hold'.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

That's what I'm afraid too. It would just lead on me hating on Smash Bros for being a polarising series due shadowing away other franchises and not giving them a chance to be on light again because the ever-popular series seem to always shadow them. Look at Sonic & All Star Racing bringing back Skies Of Arcadia and Golden Axe! That's quite saying a lot more than Brawl only bringing two retro series and two recent series.

I mean really, Smash Bros would just be then always including the same series over and over and over again with flavor of the months depending on their newest IPs if they're lucky to become that famous enough.

Hope I'm not looking too much on this, but that's what I personally think.

 

[Ember Reaper]

Golden Sun on the WiiU where the conversations are voice-acted or acted out, could be something incredibly awesome.

I saw on another thread that someone had brought up the idea of (NOT TRUE, JUST A CONCEPT) a Golden Sun for Wii U designed by Monolith Soft. Me personally, would be ecstatic Golden Sun being my favorite GBA game and Xenoblade being my favorite Wii game.

I do agree with most of the things you guys have been saying, I want more franchises brought into Smash to give them more exposure to a broader audience. Smash has become such a large franchise on its own and has all the biggest Nintendo franchises in its game already that only 3rd party characters could pull in a bigger audience. Why not use it reinvigorate Nintendo franchises that never quite got as popular. It's not like they weren't good games, many of the lesser known franchises were critically acclaimed but they just never got the exposure so they never sold that well. It would be so sad if these great series get put into 'indefinite hold'.

This too. Smash has brought Fire Emblem and Sin and Punishment to America, revived Kid Icarus, (through assist trophies) Golden Sun, Sin and Punishment, Stafy, and Punch Out!!! SImply because people saw their assist trophies and asked "Who is this guy?" or "I remember them!!" both said "I want to see more." So more was made. Including Isaac would restate his popularity and more people would know him.
You can go up to most gamers and ask if they know Marth or Lucas and they know them by some name (blue haired swordsman in melee/blond kid who looks like Ness)
People know them now. That would happen to these characters too

 

[dezeray112]

I don't exactly mind if either Matthew or Isaac makes it in the SSB4 roster.

 

[Sleek Media]

I'm of the opinion that this is Golden Sun's last chance. The games ranged from "mediocre" to "bad", and the poor sales of Dark Dawn didn't help. I don't think the franchise will get a new entry as it stands. Unless Smash includes Isaac as a playable character, AND he becomes popular, I'd say the series is finished.

I'd still like to see Isaac get in with Venus lighthouse as a stage, though.

 

[kikaru]

I'm of the opinion that this is Golden Sun's last chance. The games ranged from "mediocre" to "bad", and the poor sales of Dark Dawn didn't help. I don't think the franchise will get a new entry as it stands. Unless Smash includes Isaac as a playable character, AND he becomes popular, I'd say the series is finished.

I'd still like to see Isaac get in with Venus lighthouse as a stage, though.

I will agree that Dark Dawn definitely dropped the ball in terms of sales and story as sales have yet to break one million and the ending was a complete cliffhanger. but to categorize the entire series as mediocre/bad? I mean Golden Sun 1 and 2 were by far some of the best and critically acclaimed RPGs for the GBA.

Golden Sun isn't in its golden age anymore but I wouldn't go as far to say the series is finished whether or not Isaac/Matthew is included into the next Smash Bros.

 

[G_Major]

It's a bit disappointing to see Isaac's popularity decline. He has been my number one most wanted character since the early speculation days of Brawl. It seems as if a lot of people are doubting his chances TOO much though. I feel that Sakurai will look to the Assist Trophies first when he determines who will be playable. As stated before, those are the characters that "didn't quite make it" which kind of implies that some of them were fairly close to becoming playable. The top three most likely out of those characters seem to be Saki, Little Mac, and Isaac; three unrepresented series with a ton of popularity.

I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet (and I feel like it isn't brought up enough when discussing rosters), but wasn't it stated at one point that the 3DS and Wii U games would each have exclusive characters? I feel like this increases Isaac's chances even more as he would make a perfect handheld exclusive. Shulk would be a great console exclusive to parallel Isaac, for those that view him as "competition." Another example of this could be Lucas being a 3DS exclusive and Ness a console exclusive, as well as Chrom and Marth respectively.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Thought about that before to. Pokemon characters could make good version exclusives as well. But I would personally switch Marth for Roy, as Marth should be in both versions. And if not Roy, make Ike console exclusive, and Chrom handheld exclusive. Also thought of Impa and Sheik as version exclusives and Toon Link and Young Link. But I feel that Isaac and Shulk as version exclusives is also really clever. I have hope Isaac makes it in as well, but still am not really expecting it.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

It's a bit disappointing to see Isaac's popularity decline. He has been my number one most wanted character since the early speculation days of Brawl. It seems as if a lot of people are doubting his chances TOO much though. I feel that Sakurai will look to the Assist Trophies first when he determines who will be playable. As stated before, those are the characters that "didn't quite make it" which kind of implies that some of them were fairly close to becoming playable. The top three most likely out of those characters seem to be Saki, Little Mac, and Isaac; three unrepresented series with a ton of popularity.

I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet (and I feel like it isn't brought up enough when discussing rosters), but wasn't it stated at one point that the 3DS and Wii U games would each have exclusive characters? I feel like this increases Isaac's chances even more as he would make a perfect handheld exclusive. Shulk would be a great console exclusive to parallel Isaac, for those that view him as "competition." Another example of this could be Lucas being a 3DS exclusive and Ness a console exclusive, as well as Chrom and Marth respectively.

Many of us here haven't thought highly of the idea about version-exclusives (because it'd force people to buy both versions). And no, there hasn't yet been anything like that confirmed from Sakurai (if anything, its actually from some rumor speaking about Smash Bros getting a retro makeover for 3DS)

On the Assist Trophy-thought, this is something still debatable. I mean a lot of Assists are also enemies or NPCs from the Nintendo-games. ATs are also glorified Pokeballs so there could be a chance they keep the same characters from Brawl: unless your prediction might come true.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Pretty sure Matthew is gonna make many Isaac fans butthurt if he gets in instead.

I am pretty neutral on the Matthew/Isaac thing since in my eyes, they are pretty much the same.

I think it would be Matthew, like how it would be Isa instead of Saki as well

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I think Isaac is more likely of the two, since

a) Dark Dawn wasn't as successful as the first two GS games.
b) Isaac seems like he's the more remembered of the two.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I think Isaac is more likely of the two, since

a) Dark Dawn wasn't as successful as the first two GS games.
b) Isaac seems like he's the more remembered of the two.

Even so Dark Dawn was more recent and Sakurai usually seems to favor that. This being since it appears that each Smash Bros game is mainly based off of the previous gen. This time being the Wii and DS.

I could still see Isaac, but it would be his adult self.

Edit: Also the creator considers Matthew's game to be the start of the "main" series. That Isaac's games were the prologue.

 

[JPW]

i believe reason why Dark Dawn sales weren't all that grand was because of the huge gap, a lot of the people who enjoyed the early games didn't even know there was a planned sequel/extension. It was that long ago and maybe most of them stopped playing games. People grow up.

Not to mention the advertising wasn't all that grand. In fact gaming companies of all kinds seem to fail on this, not everything is going to get around on name recognition if you want your games to work you have advertise you have to make them known. You have to do the extra work.

Mario, Sonic, Zelda, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, Halo, they all work because companies advertise. Not to mention they're household names. But they all started somewhere they all started from advertising, they came from nothing and became something.

Here in Australia i barely saw the game i remember on DD release i had to walk up to JB hifi and show them that the game was released on that day, and after they saw that they were like "There might be something in the back" What do you know?.... there was.

Even today at EB games it's a very rare find.

How can you expect a series that has only just had a rebirth to become something big if the only thing driving it is a cult fanbase.

 

[Reyson]

I feel like this is one of Nintendo's biggest problems, their games are pretty stellar overall but they're terrible at advertising them. If you're not following them closely, you'll miss out on a lot of games that you never hear about. Only the big 3(Mario, Pokemon and LoZ) seem to create a big buzz and get advertising and they really don't need it. I guess it'll be a bit better with the Wii U because they have their own social network/store/advertising place, but I don't think that can fully replace it.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Maybe the Wii U version should be console exclusive (Wii, Wii U, and console Retro) while the 3DS version should be handheld exclusive (DS, 3DS, and handheld retro).

Characters like Micaiah, Shulk, Ghirahim, Isa, and Little Mac for the Wii U game while the 3DS game gets the likes of Matthew, Andy, Palutena, 2nd Gen Trainer, and Chrom.

And characters such as Bowser Jr, Ridley, etc for both.

You can then connect and transfer characters, giving you even more reason outside of different overall games to get both.

Thoughts?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Maybe the Wii U version should be console exclusive (Wii, Wii U, and console Retro) while the 3DS version should be handheld exclusive (DS, 3DS, and handheld retro).

Characters like Micaiah, Shulk, Ghirahim, Isa, and Little Mac for the Wii U game while the 3DS game gets the likes of Matthew, Andy, Palutena, 2nd Gen Trainer, and Chrom.

And characters such as Bowser Jr, Ridley, etc for both.

You can then connect and transfer characters, giving you even more reason outside of different overall games to get both.

Thoughts?

That would be a horrible idea. IMO there shouldn't be any characters exclusive to one version or another.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

That would be a horrible idea. IMO there shouldn't be any characters exclusive to one version or another.

Just tossing an idea out there

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Just tossing an idea out there

It's been tossed out before, and it's sill dumb.

I don't see why there has to be something in the game to encourage people to get both versions. Just let people get the version they want, and include crossplay between the two. This isn't Pokemon, people.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well if there were no exclusive content for ether of these versions, then what would be the point of making two identical games on two different systems?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Well if there were no exclusive content for ether of these versions, then what would be the point of making two identical games on two different systems?

So that people could play the game on their system of choice. Some people would rather play the game on the go that on a home system, and vice versa.

 

[G_Major]

Many of us here haven't thought highly of the idea about version-exclusives (because it'd force people to buy both versions). And no, there hasn't yet been anything like that confirmed from Sakurai (if anything, its actually from some rumor speaking about Smash Bros getting a retro makeover for 3DS)

On the Assist Trophy-thought, this is something still debatable. I mean a lot of Assists are also enemies or NPCs from the Nintendo-games. ATs are also glorified Pokeballs so there could be a chance they keep the same characters from Brawl: unless your prediction might come true.

Ah, okay. It's been awhile since I've thought about SSB so things that I've read before may have been jumbled around in my head a bit Would the 3DS be able to support a roster the same size as the Wii U version though? I don't see the console version getting shorthanded because the developers want to have an equal number of characters for each version. There would have to be exclusives somewhere in that case.

I see your points regarding ATs. Some of them were pretty widely popular (like the ones I mentioned) and it seems as though Sakurai recognized that at least a little bit by including them in a higher capacity than just collectibles like regular trophies or stickers. He's aware that some of them are wanted and might prioritize some of his inclusions based on this.


On the note of Isaac v. Matthew, it gets more difficult to predict the more I think about it. As it's been stated time and time again, Isaac is the most iconic and recognizable character, but Matthew's story was supposedly meant to be the primary focus of the series. Personally, I still think Isaac is much more likely. I like both equally, but I kind of want Matthew a tiny bit more ONLY because I prefer his outfit xP


EDIT: Question for all of you: If there were to be an additional GS rep, who would you like to see? I know it's very, very, very unlikely, but it would just be nice to see your thoughts Alex would have to be my pick.

 

[Arcadenik]

If SSB4 does get a Golden Sun character, whether it is Isaac or Matthew, I hope Belinsk makes it in as a stage. Fighting on the rooftops overlooking the plaza during a solar eclipse and occasionally Crystallux breaks through the roof of the Opera House to attack sounds so epic to me.

 

[N3ON]

Gotta catch up with some of these posts, glad the thread is moving so well and there's still an apparent interest in Isaac and/or GS. ^_^

This too. Smash has brought Fire Emblem and Sin and Punishment to America, revived Kid Icarus, (through assist trophies) Golden Sun, Sin and Punishment, Stafy, and Punch Out!!! SImply because people saw their assist trophies and asked "Who is this guy?" or "I remember them!!" both said "I want to see more." So more was made. Including Isaac would restate his popularity and more people would know him.
You can go up to most gamers and ask if they know Marth or Lucas and they know them by some name (blue haired swordsman in melee/blond kid who looks like Ness)
People know them now. That would happen to these characters too

I think attributing Smash to anything more than bringing FE overseas and reviving KI is giving it too much credit. Ofc it sparked some interest in the characters that were made ATs, but it didn't solely cause their series to be revived. Nintendo wouldn't take a gamble that big. The reason series were revived/saw a follow-up post-Brawl is either because the original games were quite successful, Nintendo saw a new market for them, or because VC sales were above-expected (in S&P's case). Sure, being an AT helps a little in getting known (no great extent), but only playable characters really feel the effects of being included on their series.

I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet (and I feel like it isn't brought up enough when discussing rosters), but wasn't it stated at one point that the 3DS and Wii U games would each have exclusive characters? I feel like this increases Isaac's chances even more as he would make a perfect handheld exclusive. Shulk would be a great console exclusive to parallel Isaac, for those that view him as "competition." Another example of this could be Lucas being a 3DS exclusive and Ness a console exclusive, as well as Chrom and Marth respectively.

Like Horsetail said, no, there hasn't been any information on exclusive characters yet, but if they did choose to go down that route (which I personally hope they don't), Isaac would make sense as a portable exclusive, I suppose. As long as the exclusive characters were transferable (at least the 3DS ones to the Wii U), I wouldn't have much of a problem with it, as I plan to get both games, but will probably end up playing the Wii U one more. However, I hope they have the same rosters on both versions, and make the differences between the versions elsewhere in the game, like with the customization and modes.

Even so Dark Dawn was more recent and Sakurai usually seems to favor that. This being since it appears that each Smash Bros game is mainly based off of the previous gen. This time being the Wii and DS.

I could still see Isaac, but it would be his adult self.

Edit: Also the creator considers Matthew's game to be the start of the "main" series. That Isaac's games were the prologue.

At this point, the only way I see Matthew getting in over Isaac is if Camelot requests it. Isaac is a much better representation of the whole series so far, appearing in all three games and playable in two, with many more people being aware of Isaac (as his games had much more widespread success, and he appeared in Brawl), and he is just much, much more popular that Matthew. He would also get in as his playable and more iconic appearance instead of the adult version.

Maybe the Wii U version should be console exclusive (Wii, Wii U, and console Retro) while the 3DS version should be handheld exclusive (DS, 3DS, and handheld retro).

Characters like Micaiah, Shulk, Ghirahim, Isa, and Little Mac for the Wii U game while the 3DS game gets the likes of Matthew, Andy, Palutena, 2nd Gen Trainer, and Chrom.

And characters such as Bowser Jr, Ridley, etc for both.

You can then connect and transfer characters, giving you even more reason outside of different overall games to get both.

Thoughts?

Your character selection aside (because it's not great), maybe one or two exclusive characters is possible, but five on each system (especially the 3DS) is very unlikely. However, the characters you chose do represent their systems decently, even if many of them have little chance.

I don't see why there has to be something in the game to encourage people to get both versions. Just let people get the version they want, and include crossplay between the two. This isn't Pokemon, people.

No matter if the rosters end up being the same or different, there will be some differences somewhere between the two versions, it's inevitable. Plus, why wouldn't Nintendo encourage and influence people to get both versions? Do they suddenly not like to profit as much as possible?

On the note of Isaac v. Matthew, it gets more difficult to predict the more I think about it. As it's been stated time and time again, Isaac is the most iconic and recognizable character, but Matthew's story was supposedly meant to be the primary focus of the series. Personally, I still think Isaac is much more likely. I like both equally, but I kind of want Matthew a tiny bit more ONLY because I prefer his outfit xP

EDIT: Question for all of you: If there were to be an additional GS rep, who would you like to see? I know it's very, very, very unlikely, but it would just be nice to see your thoughts Alex would have to be my pick.

I kinda covered this above, but I agree that Isaac has the much better chance, though I would be pleased seeing either. Personally I still want Isaac more, but Matthew does have a cool outfit, like I've said in previous posts, I wouldn't be surprised if whichever one got in had an alternate outfit of the other one.

Personally no other GS characters come close to how much I want to see Isaac (other than Matthew), but if I had to pick, I'd probably go with Jenna or Alex. Jenna because I think playing as a Mars Adept would be fun (and she's my favourite Mars Adept) and Alex because I liked his character, and he would be pretty diverse from all other characters so far

Spoiler

(though personally I'd like to see him in his Dark Dawn (Arcanus) look)

. Ofc I'd enjoy seeing Felix too, but I don't think he'd offer as much variety-wise (even though he definitely could) as an Adept from a different element.

If SSB4 does get a Golden Sun character, whether it is Isaac or Matthew, I hope Belinsk makes it in as a stage. Fighting on the rooftops overlooking the plaza during a solar eclipse and occasionally Crystallux breaks through the roof of the Opera House to attack sounds so epic to me.

I'm pretty sure if we get a GS stage it will most likely be a Lighthouse or somewhere on or inside Mt. Aleph, but thinking this idea over really makes me want to see it more than what's likely to happen. Unless Sakurai/Camelot chooses to make the GS representation exclusively or primarily from Dark Dawn, then perhaps Belinsk has a chance in some capacity.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Your character selection aside (because it's not great), maybe one or two exclusive characters is possible, but five on each system (especially the 3DS) is very unlikely. However, the characters you chose do represent their systems decently, even if many of them have little chance.

Which ones have little chances? Just wondering.

 

[N3ON]

Which ones have little chances? Just wondering.

It's a combination of how many new series you have, some of the more unlikely choices from the new series (Matthew over Isaac, Isa over Saki), and just some unlikely choices overall like Andy, Micaiah, 2nd Gen Trainer, and (not as bad as the others, but I still wouldn't get your hopes up for) Ghirahim.

Shulk, Little Mac, Palutena, Chrom, Bowser Jr, and Ridley are all fairly solid choices though.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

It's a combination of how many new series you have, some of the more unlikely choices from the new series (Matthew over Isaac, Isa over Saki), and just some unlikely choices overall like Andy, Micaiah, 2nd Gen Trainer, and (not as bad as the others, but I still wouldn't get your hopes up for) Ghirahim.

Shulk, Little Mac, Palutena, Chrom, Bowser Jr, and Ridley are all fairly solid choices though.

I can still see Isaac, as an adult, but I just can't see Saki. Isa is the hero in the return of the series and the one to be localized (during its gen).

Matthew might be considered more since his game is the start of the main story.

I think Ghirahim is pretty likely since he played a big role in Skyward Sword, is popular, and would add to Zelda's villain reps.

Andy is THE choice for Advance Wars at this point, which really does deserve a rep in. Micaiah is still a top choice for Fire Emblem, among the others. People count her out way too easily. 2nd Gen Pokemon Trainer Gold makes sense becuase of Heart Gold and Soul Silver, like Red got in due to the Gen 1 remakes on GBA.

The others are fine, but don't count these ones out.

I just believe Smash Bros 4 need a more diverse roster in terms of newer franchises repped. Like Sin & Punishment (Isa), Golden Sun (Matthew), Advance Wars (Andy), Xenoblade (Shulk), Punchout (Little Mac), and Custom Robo (Ray Mk3).

 

[FlareHabanero]

The roster is already diverse enough in terms of franchises, so padding it out with smaller series isn't necessary. However I could see a few more popping up like Mysterious Murasame Castle, Xenoblade, and Punch-Out!! in particular.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

The roster is already diverse enough in terms of franchises, so padding it out with smaller series isn't necessary. However I could see a few more popping up like Mysterious Murasame Castle, Xenoblade, and Punch-Out!! in particular.

I believe franchises like Xenoblade, Sin & Punishment, Golden Sun, Punchout, and Advance Wars are necessary. Especially the first four.

 

[FlareHabanero]

They are not necessary.

Nothing is going to be effected if any of those are absent in any shape or form.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

They are not necessary.

Nothing is going to be effected if any of those are absent in any shape or form.

Probably so, but it would be good to get them in there. Especially since two are still around, two made their return, and one was a big new game.

 

[N3ON]

Chrono was kind enough to share his Isaac moveset (and other Isaac-related stuff) he made a few years back (before Dark Dawn) with me, and I thought it would be great to post it in here, it's definitely quite a detailed look at how Isaac could play:

---------------------------
ChronoBound's Isaac Moveset:

I feel the Golden Sun series has enough quality to it to warrant a playable character. With that said, there is quite a bit of debate as to what kind of character Isaac should be if made playable. Some suggest that he should be a sword fighter with magic, while others suggest he should be primarily a magic user with some sword attacks thrown in. My suggestion on Isaac will be a character that balance swordplay with magic (or psynergy in the case of the Golden Sun universe).

Isaac will be very bizarre as while he does use his sword, his sword does a magic attack in tangent with the sword attack. Isaac also has very devastating attacks and is pretty fast. Isaac also uses other stuff such as bamboo, among other things. Isaac is easily one of the most unique characters on my roster, and is far from a typical sword character.

Isaac regular moves:

A: Isaac makes a horizontal slice with his sword with one hand (think Ike’s a-tilt).

A-continuously: Isaac will make continuous horizontal, diagonal, and vertical slices with his sword (though these sword attacks are weak).

Running-A: Isaac will swipe with his sword while running.
Tilt-A: Isaac does an energy palm attack (this is similar to Ganondorf’s standard A from Brawl).

Down-A: Isaac stabs the ground and fire comes up from it (think Ike’s eruption).

Up-A: Isaac will throw a small ball of energy upward (it dissipates a little bit after Isaac throws it).

A-Air: Isaac somersaults in the air with his sword.
Forward-air: Isaac whips out a bamboo stick and wildly swings it around.

Backward-air: Isaac will do a quick chop with his sword in back of him.

Down-air: Isaac plunges diagonally with his sword, however, unlike other sudden down attacks, if Isaac hits his enemy in mid-air they will be dragged down along with him until they hit the ground. Expect it to be an annoying kamekaze move.
Up-air: Isaac puts his hands together as though it were a gun a shoots out some balls of energy.

Forward-Smash: This move is based off of Cannon from Golden Sun. Isaac’s sword will glow with fire energy. When done charging, Isaac will thrust forward with his burning blade and there will be an explosion.

Down-Smash: This move is based off of Squall. Isaac jumps up in the air and plunges his sword in the ground, and when he does electricity shoots around the area where he plunged the sword, as well as there being an electric aura around Isaac.

Up-Smash: Isaac’s sword glows purple while charging. When done charging Isaac shoots out a purple blade from his sword that shoots upward. While Isaac’s up-smash has the highest reach in the game, it only does 20% damage when fully charged.

Grabs:
Isaac is capable of tether-recovery because he uses his growth vines to initially grab his opponents.

Grab-A: Thorns come out of the vines and poke the binded opponent.

Backward-Grab: Isaac whips his opponent out of the vines and then shoot them with an several small balls of energy.

Forward-Grab: Isaac will whip his opponent out of the vines, and then shoot out an Oddysey Blade.

Down-Grab: Isaac slams his opponent to the ground and then whacks them with his sword.

Up-Grab: Isaac tosses his opponent up and then shoots out an Odyssey Blade.

Isaac special moves:

B: Boulder: Isaac generates a huge boulder above his head. The boulder is created from a bunch of small rocks all fusing together. However, the bigger the boulder, the harder it will be for Isaac to psychically toss it at his opponents.

Side-B: Move: Isaac’s move from his first appearance in the Smash series makes a return. Isaac will generate a giant energy hand that is the same size as it was in Brawl. While this move does no damage, it is by far the best edge guard move in the game. However, there is an initial lag when Isaac is about to do it, and Isaac himself is vulnerable to attack while and after performing this move.

Down-B: Punji Strike: Isaac shoots bamboo sticks out of the ground in front of him. This traps opponents momentarily like DK’s side-b, however, unlike DK’s side-b, this move needs to be charged to determined how long your opponent will be trapped within the bamboo imprisonment. If done immediately, Punji Strike only holds your opponent for a second.

Up-B:Retreat: Isaac’s teleportation move is probably the best in the entire Smash series. Isaac’s will disappear in a plume of rainbowy bubbles. This move has excellent vertical and horizontal recovery, and can even go through solid stages. However, this move does not do any damage.

Final Smash: Odyssey: Isaac’s has a massive aura of psynergy surrounding his body. He then calls forth two giant swords made of psynergy that pierce one of your opponents in an X-formation (the one that is currently winning in the match). This paralyzes the opponent that got struck the opponent. Isaac then calls forth a gigantic sword that goes across the entire screen. Getting hit by this sword is an OHKO, so the person who got hit with the two swords is pretty much screwed, however, your unparalyzed opponents can jump over this sword, though it takes a double jump to avoid it.

Isaac’s taunts are as follows:
1. Isaac will smile and look up at the sky, and then close his eyes, while a small amount of pebbles circle his body.
2. Isaac will stretch, and then crack his knuckles.
3. Isaac will make a whole bunch of pebbles levitate above his head with his powers, one of the pebbles falls on top of Isaac’s head, he then rubs his head and all the other pebbles fall.

Isaac’s victory animations are as follows:
1. Isaac will do a whole bunch of slashes with his sword then he does a slight smirk.
2. Isaac will close both his eyes, smile, and give a thumb-up with one of his hands.
3. Isaac will make a whole bunch of rocks encircle his body, and then make them drop after a bit.

Running-animation:
Isaac’s running animation is not bizarre, and is quite plain. Isaac simply runs in similar fashion as Mario.

Idle animation:
Isaac will look pretty battle-ready from his face, though he stands how he stands when he is summoned from his Assist Trophy form in Brawl. Isaac will routinely clench his fists, and crack his knuckles.

Costumes:
1. Isaac’s main clothing becomes red, while the scarf-cape becomes green.
2. Isaac’s main clothing becomes yellow, while the scarf-cape becomes blue.
3. Isaac’s main clothing becomes green, while the scarf-cape becomes red.
4. Isaac’s main clothing becomes black, while the scarf-cape becomes red.
5. Isaac borrows the same color scheme for his costume that Felix has.

Kirby Hat:
Kirby will gain Issac’s hair upon absorbing him, and will be able to perform the special move Boulder.

Isaac-Snake Codec Conversation:
Snake: Otacon, I’m fighting another one of those sword kids.
Otacon: Actually, this “kid” is different. His name is Isaac. He uses some sort of psychic ability called psynergy.
Snake: ...Psynergy?
Otacon: Its like sort of psychic energy and magic combined, it has elemental affiliation to it. Isaac is an Earth adept and can manipulate duh earth related elements.
Snake: Yeah...
Otacon: Not only that, he can create swords and hands with his psynergy abilities as well as teleport.
Snake: Yawn....
Otacon: So, what is so boring about a guy who can create giant swords and boulders with his MIND.
Snake: Its not him, its just that I have seen it all, you know what I mean.
Otacon: Yeah, I guess all those years fighting those bizarre opponents really took away your ability to say “Wow”.
Snake: I guess. Thanks for the heads up on this guy.
End of codec.

End of Isaac moveset.
---------------------------------

So, how does this moveset compare to what any of you had envisioned Isaac would play like? Personally there are some things on here I definitely agree would be likely to be in Isaac's moveset, however there are also one or two things I think might get implemented over what's here (like a summon). Either way, a very interesting moveset, and a good one! I've added it to the OP.

One of the great things about a GS character is how much diversity their moveset can offer, nobody's hypothetical moveset looks quite the same.