Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

[N3ON]

I certainly thought of posting about that possibility, but I decided to keep relatively optimistic.

He was an unlockable AT, so that might hurt the chances of him getting shown soon if he is a returning AT and not character, so either way we probably won't know for a long time.

I do agree if he remains an unlockable AT there'd really be no reason to show him prior to release, it's not like he has any games to promote, so pretty much any way you want to look at it... chances are it'll be a wait.

The only exceptions I see are if he's moved to "starter" AT and Sakurai just feels like revealing him for some reason or if he actually becomes playable and Sakurai once again just feels like revealing him for some reason. There's really no event his reveal would tie into... but then again if he's a starter (which... eh... I wouldn't count on) it's not like there's a necessity to have a tie-in reveal, any reveal will get people pretty hyped.

I just hope this isn't another case of not getting ANY GS content revealed until post-release, though it very well could be. Hopefully we'll at least get more than an AT and single track this time, even if we don't end up securing a playable position.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Honestly by now I would be surprised if Isaac got in, and I am still skeptical about Shulk.

 

[Deleted member]

I certainly thought of posting about that possibility, but I decided to keep relatively optimistic.

He was an unlockable AT, so that might hurt the chances of him getting shown soon if he is a returning AT and not character, so either way we probably won't know for a long time.

Also, bear in mind that Isaac was one of the strongest ATs. His Move did not hurt anybody, but because it ignored even invincibility casued by the Super Star, he was somebody you did not want in an aerial-tiered stage.

I'm pretty sure Sakurai did think about Isaac as a playable, and decided that Isaac didn't have enough "credentials" to warrant playable status and made him an unlockable AT. With the intent on having console and portable themes for the two games, I'm sure Sakurai will think of using portable characters to bulk up the roster (two of the four newcomers are Console-exclusive in terms of their game library, not counting Rosalina's involvement in Mario Kart 7). Golden Sun might not have a game for another year or so at the very least (and I'm hoping for one, dangit... Dark Dawn had too many plot holes to leave open), but it was a franchise that helped make the GameBoy Advance a must-have.

Still... the waiting game will suck.

 

[FalKoopa]

I think Isaac was passed over because the roster expansion in Brawl was already huge as it is, and Isaac didn't have the star-power to compete with the likes of King Dedede and Wario.

 

[Bassoonist]

I think Isaac was passed over because the roster expansion in Brawl was already huge as it is, and Isaac didn't have the star-power to compete with the likes of King Dedede and Wario.

"Huge"?

I most certainly never thought of it in that way... But maybe (sadly) compared to the expansion from Brawl to this game it will be.

 

[IsmaR]

It was simply not his time, I think. Not that now is really any better. I do think Sakurai going out of his way to displace GS music on a Metroid stage shows sign that they at least considered it at some point.

 

[FalKoopa]

"Huge"?

Brawl added a total of 18 new characters, and 3 more newcomers were planned. It's quite big by fighting game standards.

Still, I think Isaac is one of the most likely newcomers this time around, as the competition is hardly as fierce as pre-Brawl.

 

[Xenigma]

My great frustration with Isaac is that even if he gets in, there's basically no reason to reveal him outside of E3 since a fourth Golden Sun is unlikely to happen any time soon (if ever). It's just a long waiting game and hoping that competition has actually lowered enough that he isn't relegated to an AT again.

 

[Bassoonist]

My great frustration with Isaac is that even if he gets in, there's basically no reason to reveal him outside of E3 since a fourth Golden Sun is unlikely to happen any time soon (if ever). It's just a long waiting game and hoping that competition has actually lowered enough that he isn't relegated to an AT again.

Right?

I already played this waiting game once before, and quite obviously, it didn't end so well. =(

 

[Xenigma]

Right?

I already played this waiting game once before, and quite obviously, it didn't end so well. =(

Yeah, I am not looking forward to potentially reliving that disappointment, but I suppose that comes with hoping for a character from a relatively minor Nintendo series.

 

[iam8bit]

40 pages, yay!

In case anyone didn't read, a poster here is claiming to have inside info about the game and one of his claims is that Isaac is back as an AT.

Not that this is a time for "credible" leaks, but still...

 

[Xenigma]

One look at the already lengthy list of "leaks" over on the dedicated thread for the subject says to me that it's not worth worrying about any of them being true.

 

[Bassoonist]

40 pages, yay!

In case anyone didn't read, a poster here is claiming to have inside info about the game and one of his claims is that Isaac is back as an AT.

Not that this is a time for "credible" leaks, but still...

There's no reason whatsoever to worry about the leaks at this point. It's not like they become progressively more true as we get closer to release (aside from having access to more information that has been revealed to us all, of course).

Of course, Brawl's roster did leak, but if when it was leaked was any indication, we won't be seeing a true leak for a long time.

 

[Arteen]

I wouldn't worry too much about Isaac not having a chance outside of E3. He's hardly alone there, and I doubt we'll see more than one or two newcomers before E3, anyway.

It's been the better part of a year since the game's reveal and Sakurai really hasn't shown us much beyond a single newcomer. The rest has been veterans, stages, and a handful of assist trophies. We haven't even seen Yoshi yet. There's still another E3's worth of content coming up, so I'm sure Sakurai's saving some substantial surprises. I'll save my worry for after.

If we're (very) lucky, we might get a stage tease before E3. Personally, no news is good news. If we see Isaac before then (or any character for that matter), it will be as an assist trophy reveal.

 

[N3ON]

I wouldn't expect Sakurai to unveil a GS stage prior to a GS character unless he made sure what was seen of the stage was very vague and couldn't actually be directly related to GS (which would probably be relatively difficult - though if it's a super close-up or something it's still possible). Sure Sakurai is a huge tease and all, but that seems like showing his hand a bit too much, at least imo. Maybe it's because I don't see getting a GS stage unless we also get a character to go along with it.

 

[Katy Parry]

Well, I don't know if this helps his chances or Limits them...

I feel like LM had priority due to him being retro. However, he was still an Assist trophy to character.

So that helps his chances in that department I think.

But honestly, not happy with this choice.

 

[Altais]

FINALLY Nintendo is going to start releasing Gameboy Advance titles on the Virtual Console. Hopefully we will get Golden Sun and with that, a possible Isaac reveal for Smash 4.

 

[Katy Parry]

FINALLY Nintendo is going to start releasing Gameboy Advance titles on the Virtual Console. Hopefully we will get Golden Sun and with that, a possible Isaac reveal for Smash 4.

See I was getting way too hyped because when they showed the GBA part, I was like, OH MY GOD. GOLDEN SUN > EXCUSE TO REVEAL ISSAC.

But at the rate of things, we won't get another newcomer for like, two months. D:

 

[N3ON]

Well, I don't know if this helps his chances or Limits them...

I feel like LM had priority due to him being retro. However, he was still an Assist trophy to character.

So that helps his chances in that department I think.

But honestly, not happy with this choice.

Any way you want to look at it, Little Mac was a highly likely candidate. Also, he wasn't the "retro" character, by Sakurai's standards I doubt he even views him like that anymore. His series is a longstanding and popular one (at least in the west), with the character seeing requests and his revival being an overall success. His inclusion makes sense to me.

I'd say this has no bearing either way on Isaac's chances (though I suppose it does disprove that ridiculous ATs won't be characters argument). I guess if anything can be taken from this in Isaac's favour, it's that Sakurai does indeed include characters based on the west, and pretty much only the west (however Isaac's popularity, despite claims, doesn't lie solely in the west anyway, especially in Brawl-era times).

 

[Arteen]

I'm excited about GBA titles finally showing up.

Little Mac also makes me slightly more hopeful for Isaac's chances. Of the newcomers revealed so far, all of them are worthy of a spot on Smash, and all but Rosalina are from new franchises. Hopefully that trend continues and there are more newcomer franchises in store.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I knew, you guys became hopeful when Mac was revealed. xD

 

[Cheezey Bites]

In the latest Nintendo Direct, on the Japanese version, when revealing the Wii U virtual console being able to play GBA games they picked Golden Sun (as well as Advanced Wars and a bunch of others that already have reps).


Advanced Wars is pretty obvious pick, it was pretty popular, even in Japan, and it's named after the console... though it's still a little fishy as a favorite...

But Golden Sun was in no way a favourite in Japan. While it was relatively well recieved it didn't make a big splash as RPGs go (they have a lot of them to be fair), and if one were to pick an RPG as a favourite (that isn't Mario and Luigi RPG, 'cos they did that one) I would automatically think Mother 3 (or maybe Fire Emblem 6?)... It's probably nothing, just a pick for more visual variety, but if there's anywhere that may find this an interesting topic to discuss I thought it might be here...


I don't think it helps his chances exactly, but it is the sort of thing that I would expect to be done for him to be playable. Any thoughts anyone?

 

[Arteen]

Sneaky Nintendo! That's awesome.

 

[Lightosia]

So, does this make Isaac the most likely AT to be "promoted" now?

 

[Graydient]

Kind of a toss up between Isaac and Saki/Isa Jo to be honest, since Sin & Punishment had a Wii game.

I'm also under the impression that S&P is more popular than Golden Sun in Japan, but I'm going off of hearsay.

 

[N3ON]

I'm sure eventually we'll be getting the GS games on the VC, but tbh I could see Nintendo dragging their feet a long time before giving them to us. Hopefully not though. :D

In the latest Nintendo Direct, on the Japanese version, when revealing the Wii U virtual console being able to play GBA games they picked Golden Sun (as well as Advanced Wars and a bunch of others that already have reps).


Advanced Wars is pretty obvious pick, it was pretty popular, even in Japan, and it's named after the console... though it's still a little fishy as a favorite...

But Golden Sun was in no way a favourite in Japan. While it was relatively well recieved it didn't make a big splash as RPGs go (they have a lot of them to be fair), and if one were to pick an RPG as a favourite (that isn't Mario and Luigi RPG, 'cos they did that one) I would automatically think Mother 3 (or maybe Fire Emblem 6?)... It's probably nothing, just a pick for more visual variety, but if there's anywhere that may find this an interesting topic to discuss I thought it might be here...


I don't think it helps his chances exactly, but it is the sort of thing that I would expect to be done for him to be playable. Any thoughts anyone?

Golden Sun (the two GBA games at least) were waaaaaaaaaaay more popular than the GBA Wars games there, you might want to check again.

I'm surprised the series themselves were picked to show though. Good choices Nintendo!

So, does this make Isaac the most likely AT to be "promoted" now?

Hey, I suppose so!

Kind of a toss up between Isaac and Saki/Isa Jo to be honest, since Sin & Punishment had a Wii game.

I'm also under the impression that S&P is more popular than Golden Sun in Japan, but I'm going off of hearsay.

There's a lot more than recent games which play a factor in inclusion.

And no, Saki is currently more popular than Isaac (though he's not that popular himself), but GS overall is still the more popular of the two in Japan, though primarily due to the GBA titles. The only measure of success S&P ever had was on the VC, while the original two GS games were received well worldwide.

 

[TimeSmash]

Neon not seeing Mac in your sig. Step it up as a certain character would say

 

[MasterMushroom]

Spoilers: Isaac crushes the AT trophy and hands Villagers butt to him on a plate while Felix cries in the corner

In all seriousness, I don't see why Isaac shouldn't be included after all these years. People should still have hope

 

[Graydient]

There's a lot more than recent games which play a factor in inclusion.

Roster selection is a selection of multiple variables of course, but so far every newcomer has had a recent game (minus Mega Man). Little Mac (who qualifies as a "retro character") was in Brawl as in AT, but was promoted to playable character in Smash 4. Why? Because he had a recent Wii game, and Smash 4 is heavily reliant on familiar and relevant franchises.

Not to dispute you on the popularity of either, but I think we can both agree that both GS and S&P are rather niche as far as Nintendo IPs go.

 

[N3ON]

Roster selection is a selection of multiple variables of course, but so far every newcomer has had a recent game (minus Mega Man). Little Mac (who qualifies as a "retro character") was in Brawl as in AT, but was promoted to playable character in Smash 4. Why? Because he had a recent Wii game, and Smash 4 is heavily reliant on familiar and relevant franchises.

There being more factors than just recency of games =/= Recent games not playing a factor

I agree it's important, I'm just saying lots of other stuff is important (sometimes more important) as well. There are examples of series without recent iterations that still received playable content (not just retros either).

Not to dispute you on the popularity of either, but I think we can both agree that both GS and S&P are rather niche as far as Nintendo IPs go.

Yes but one of those is a lot more niche than the other.

Neon not seeing Mac in your sig. Step it up as a certain character would say

Direct your comments here then:
https://twitter.com/Neoriceisgood

 

[Arteen]

Golden Sun is recent enough in Smash-years. Heck, it's more recent than Punch-Out.

 

[Xenigma]

If today's Direct has any impact on Isaac's chances, it's minor but in a positive direction. Little Mac proves that Sakurai is perfectly willing to upgrade Assist Trophies, which many had guessed but we didn't have confirmation of, and Golden Sun being featured in Japan as one of the GBA VC choices shows Nintendo thinks its notable enough to promote in the first wave of releases. Neither really screams "Isaac is happening!" but together they at least show that Isaac is a perfectly viable option for Smash, which seems better than nothing.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

Golden Sun (the two GBA games at least) were waaaaaaaaaaay more popular than the GBA Wars games there, you might want to check again.

I'm surprised the series themselves were picked to show though. Good choices Nintendo!

Poor word choice then, but I still feel GS was an odd pick. Advanced Wars is the most popular strategy games (Barring FE that would imo be picked as an RPG) on GBA as far as I know, making it an obvious pick for a favourite of it's genre, while GS has alot of competition for JRPG favourite.

Figures it depends on how Nintendo look at it though... Maybe this helps Andy more than Isaac, maybe not...

 

[N3ON]

Poor word choice then, but I still feel GS was an odd pick. Advanced Wars is the most popular strategy games (Barring FE that would imo be picked as an RPG) on GBA as far as I know, making it an obvious pick for a favourite of it's genre, while GS has alot of competition for JRPG favourite.

Actually it's not so much that GS was outrageously popular in Japan (because obv it wasn't - though the first two each sold about 300-400k there, which is pretty above average for a new IP on the GBA), it's that the GBA AW were severely unpopular there, it was actually the shift of the series becoming more popular in the west, which started with the first GBA Wars game. This was in part to the Advance Wars games seeing very late release in Japan owing to being shelved indefinitely by Nintendo due to a projected initial release of just after 9/11 which was canceled. Years later the two were released as a compilation with little fanfare and little reception.

The series really lost a lot of its popularity in Japan when it gained its western popularity, even IS has admitted that. I mean it's still a good game, but of the two GS saw much more Japanese popularity.

Figures it depends on how Nintendo look at it though... Maybe this helps Andy more than Isaac, maybe not...

It's very little skin off their back to release games on the VC, so I'm not surprised we're ending up with both. I wouldn't say it exactly helps the chances of either though, especially since we're past the point of popularity effecting things.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

So, does this make Isaac the most likely AT to be "promoted" now?

Yeah I was thinking this earlier, Isaac is at the top of the pecking order now.

Considering Little Mac was such an obvious choice I don't think we should be too worried, my expectations haven't changed. If anything Isaac is in a unique situation being arguably the only brawl AT besides Little Mac that has a shot......and now Little Mac is out of the way.

 

[Bassoonist]

Very happy to see Golden Sun getting added to the GBA VC immediately for Japan. I thought it'd be ages before we saw Golden Sun... But then again, NOA may take a completely different release schedule and screwing us (those of us in the USA) over. >.>

When I saw that many VC titles being released at once I was really happy, I really hope it carries over worldwide because I would buy some of those games day one... And I'm still yet to purchase a single VC game.

Either way, Golden Sun technically now has a new 'release'. Although perhaps it's not significant.

 

[Staarih]

^ Well seeing as Golden Sun gets added to the VC in Japan among the likes of Mario-, Zelda-, Kirby-, Metroid-, Wario- and F-Zero -games (which all are already pretty prominent franchises), I think it's a pretty big thing for the series and a positive thing too. It's always good to get more visibility and "relevancy" in a way, even if it won't necessarily have any straight impact on Smash specifically. Hopefully we'll get it outside of Japan as well.

Ohh, and first post in this thread. Wouldn't say I'm an active supporter of Isaac but wouldn't mind him getting in!

 

[Sabrewulf238]

If (when) Isaac is confirmed playable, what music do you think is absolutely necessary to properly represent the franchise?

My choices would be:

Main Theme (Golden Sun)
Isaac's Theme (Golden Sun)
Saturos Battle Theme (Golden Sun)
Venus Lighthouse (Golden Sun)
Felix's Theme/Final Boss Remix (the one from brawl) (Lost Age)
Jenna's Theme (Lost Age)
Matthew's Theme (Dark Dawn) OR Boss Battle (Dark Dawn)

Those are the ones I remember most fondly from playing the games, it would be odd if Golden Sun got a playable rep and these tunes weren't present. Heck one of them is an already existing smash Bros track so there's no excuse.

I'm not sure how many songs Golden Sun would realistically get but I'm going to rediscover another 3 songs to make up 10 songs.

 

[Oniric Spriter]

I got to say that Mac's inclusion gives me more hopes on Isaac. It's not the fact that I wasn't expecting him anyway, or the fact that other AT are again AT (Starfy) but this really proves that Sakurai is trying to bring the most important characters that weren't playable before. And Isaac is the 2nd if not in the same level as Mac in terms of importance. While he's not as popular? he certainly is all-in-all more unique.
And the GBA games on VC are a good time to reveal him though. Let's expect the best.

 

[Deleted member]

Since Little Mac finally made the promotion, Isaac is a safe bet. I know some people are gonna go "Waluigi!" and all that, but Smash Bros. needs new 'universes", and Golden Sun is a very safe universe to finally add to the foray. Of course, I don't think Isaac will get the hype Little Mac did.

Nonetheless, I got one guy out of two I wanted in, so now I can wait on the other. Though... I wanted Isaac first...