Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

[StaffofSmashing]

I support Issac. I recently began playing the first game and have been liking it. Issac would be a perfect projectile based character with sword attacks here and there.

Issac vs Shulk: Shulk wins

Xenoblade Chronicles has been more appraised and known than any Golden Sun game. Some company in Europe even voted it Nintendo's 9th best game of ALL TIME. As much as they both could make the cut, Shulk seems more likely.

 

[Raetah]

Xenoblade Chronicles has been more appraised and known than any Golden Sun game. Some company in Europe even voted it Nintendo's 9th best game of ALL TIME. As much as they both could make the cut, Shulk seems more likely.

I doubt it, 1st by the bad distribution that Xenoblade had, 2nd by the number of sales that ANY Golden Sun have, Xenoblade only outclasses the worst Golden Sun by a little distance, 3rd by the longevity that the series have, 4th Golden Sun is a GBA game, that makes it more easy to play a pirate version of it through an emulator (and considering that sales of Golden Sun are already higher than Xenoblade sales) that makes you think that Golden Sun had 487 times more players than Xenoblade, just for being a GBA game. 5th I can find some list in where Golden Sun is placed in a top 10 of best rpg of ALL TIME, So you tell to me. Valorations are subjetive, by the way.

And also even if it was true, by just considering the 3 Golden Sun games in a set, that outclasses and by a lot Xenoblade, checkmate, importance of being a series.

 

[Katy Parry]

Well...
*Mii: Wii Fit is part of the "Wii generic series" of games in Wii-Wii U. That would mean getting two newcomers from the same new serie, we had precedents of that with Roy and Marth, so i dont know if that is a real obstacle at all. Considering that the Icon of Wii Fit Trainer only represents Wii Fit, we perhaps see two characters of the same series being presented as two characters of different series, like Yoshi out of Mario.

But now the little question that i must ask you is that what does make a character "retro"? Because all this time i though that Little Mac could be considered retro, or that Wii game excludes him? Does exist anywhere a list of retro characters?

I see what you mean. I'm thinking retro are characters that haven't had a revival.

Agreed.

Did you read my response before you posted that?

I support Issac. I recently began playing the first game and have been liking it. Issac would be a perfect projectile based character with sword attacks here and there.


Issac vs Shulk: Shulk wins


Xenoblade Chronicles has been more appraised and known than any Golden Sun game. Some company in Europe even voted it Nintendo's 9th best game of ALL TIME. As much as they both could make the cut, Shulk seems more likely.

You have to take the history into consideration though. I mean, I feel most would agree Pit was sort of left field, not many were expecting him. Issac is more of a representation in Nintendo's long history, rather than a new IP Nintendo just made. You know what I mean?

 

[Arteen]

I support Issac. I recently began playing the first game and have been liking it. Issac would be a perfect projectile based character with sword attacks here and there.

Issac vs Shulk: Shulk wins

Xenoblade Chronicles has been more appraised and known than any Golden Sun game. Some company in Europe even voted it Nintendo's 9th best game of ALL TIME. As much as they both could make the cut, Shulk seems more likely.

Issac? That dyslexic doppleganger is always making Isaac look bad. Can't trust him at all.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I see what you mean. I'm thinking retro are characters that haven't had a revival.


Did you read my response before you posted that?

I wasn't actually meaning to respond to the last part of his post, but rather the earlier part of his. Sorry for my mistake, making you think I actually agreed with his insult. I edited the quote to only include the relevant section.

 

[Raetah]

Yeah, it seems that is apparently too hard to write Isaac.

 

[Katy Parry]

I wasn't actually meaning to respond to the last part of his post, but rather the earlier part of his. Sorry for my mistake, making you think I actually agreed with his insult. I edited the quote to only include the relevant section.

That's alright.

Yeah, it seems that is apparently too hard to write Isaac.

In my case, my devices auto correct the names to Issac. As well as when I try to type Sakurai, it'll auto correct to Samurai.

My apologies.

 

[N3ON]

Well...
*Mii: Wii Fit is part of the "Wii generic series" of games in Wii-Wii U. That would mean getting two newcomers from the same new serie, we had precedents of that with Roy and Marth, so i dont know if that is a real obstacle at all. Considering that the Icon of Wii Fit Trainer only represents Wii Fit, we perhaps see two characters of the same series being presented as two characters of different series, like Yoshi out of Mario.

Wii Fit is part of the Wii series, I agree, but only part of the series, there are many games under that umbrella. I very much doubt Sakurai would categorize the Mii solely as part of the Wii Fit series when the character has been a part of so much more, from Sports to Play to Music *shudders* to Streetpass to Nintendo Land. It would very much be like Mario being categorized as a Yoshi character.

And not to say it's impossible to get two priority newcomers from the same series, but we only got Roy as a late-into-development semi-clone of Marth. Sure it's possible, but we only got one because we already had the other and to pad the roster. It's not like Mii is going to be a clone of WFT if included.

But now the little question that i must ask you is that what does make a character "retro"? Because all this time i though that Little Mac could be considered retro, or that Wii game excludes him? Does exist anywhere a list of retro characters?

A character generally seems to be considered retro if the games in their series is limited to the NES or GB era. Perhaps SNES, but there's been no proof of that yet. Once a character has made an appearance more recent than that (as part of their series, not just a cameo), they're generally considered not to be retro any longer. Sakurai refers to these kind of characters as "classic" not "retro".

Characters like Takamaru, Mach Rider, Balloon Fighter, Sukapon, Bubbles, Duck Hunt Dog, Urban Champion, and possibly Muddy Mole, Prince Sable, and Lip could be considered "retro", among others.

Though this stuff is getting a bit off-topic.

Agreed.

That would hardly commence with Isaac, people have been doing it since December.

Xenoblade Chronicles has been more appraised and known than any Golden Sun game. Some company in Europe even voted it Nintendo's 9th best game of ALL TIME. As much as they both could make the cut, Shulk seems more likely.

I don't want to encourage the vs. business, but Xenoblade Chronicles has most definitely not been known more than Golden Sun. The first two games in the series each sold at least double Xenoblade (even in Japan), and their metacritic scores (at least GS1) are about the same as Xenoblade.

Xenoblade's splash was more recent, that's why people think it was bigger.

 

[iam8bit]

If Isaac makes it in, do you guys think he will be the only GS rep forever?

Unless the series gets more games, and they prove to be popular... yes, Isaac will probably the only GS representative ever.

(Provided he even gets in)

 

[BluePikmin11]

I find a second GS character unnecessary, unless there is a major GS side character that can prove to be unique as Isaac, I find it as unnecessary as F-Zero getting a second character.

 

[Katy Parry]

Unless the series gets more games, and they prove to be popular... yes, Isaac will probably the only GS representative ever.

(Provided he even gets in)

He will get in. Stay positive.

But yes, I always had hopes for Mia, as a team battle based character. But no, (I'm sure Jenna would be picked first anyway.) I think Isaac is just the face of GS.

 

[N3ON]

There won't be a second GS character unless GS grows substantially as a series, which could happen in the future if we do get a playable GS rep, but that's still ways away.

Unless in Smash 5 Sakurai needs a semi-clone or something, as adepts of the same element would make easy ones.

 

[iam8bit]

That's also one of the things that gives me hope for Isaac: the fact that Nintendo may want to pull a Fire Emblem with Golden Sun.

Because, let's face it, no one gave a damn about Fire Emblem before Marth & Roy were playable in Melee (at least in the west) and putting them in Smash basically made Fire Emblem a feasible worldwide series. Putting Isaac in the roster would mean Nintendo can increase Golden Sun's profile and start making games for a bigger audience (filling the void of a Nintendo fantasy RPG).

I don't know about the relationship between Camelot and Nintendo though. It seems Dark Dawn was "an independent work" as opposed to a collaboration with Nintendo (like GS I & II), so I don't know what the deal is with the franchise.

Nintendo owns all the characters, music, etc. though, AFAIK, so there's that...

 

[BluePikmin11]

Camelot is a second party studio, so whether or not Isaac is worth earning as a character is up to Sakurai.
My nerves tell me that probably won't if it's not as successful as Pokemon back in the Smash 64 days. But we'll have to see.

 

[N3ON]

Nothing was as successful as Pokemon back in the 64 days. If ANY Nintendo series gets that popular, 1st party or 2nd party, you can bet they'd get included.
That said, there is absolutely no proof Sakurai views 2nd parties any different than 1st. 1st parties just make up the majority of Nintendo's biggest series.

That's also one of the things that gives me hope for Isaac: the fact that Nintendo may want to pull a Fire Emblem with Golden Sun.

Because, let's face it, no one gave a damn about Fire Emblem before Marth & Roy were playable in Melee (at least in the west) and putting them in Smash basically made Fire Emblem a feasible worldwide series. Putting Isaac in the roster would mean Nintendo can increase Golden Sun's profile and start making games for a bigger audience (filling the void of a Nintendo fantasy RPG).

To be fair, Sakurai included FE neither for promotion nor for the west. Marth and Roy weren't originally going to appear in the localized versions of Melee. If GS got included, it'd likely have to be for what it's already accomplished, not what it might in the future.

I don't know about the relationship between Camelot and Nintendo though. It seems Dark Dawn was "an independent work" as opposed to a collaboration with Nintendo (like GS I & II), so I don't know what the deal is with the franchise.

Nintendo owns all the characters, music, etc. though, AFAIK, so there's that...

I don't really see where you get this notion from, DD seemed to be a collaboration as much as the previous two were. It was still published and promoted by Nintendo and everything.

 

[iam8bit]

I don't really see where you get this notion from, DD seemed to be a collaboration as much as the previous two were. It was still published and promoted by Nintendo and everything.

According to a Famitsu interview, Camelot stated DD was more of an "independent" project than the first two games:

In an interview with Weekly Famitsu in July 2010, Shugo stated that unlike its predecessors, this entry is an independent work.

That leads me to believe Nintendo was somehow more involved in the development of the previous games than this one.

To be fair, Sakurai included FE neither for promotion nor for the west. Marth and Roy weren't originally going to appear in the localized versions of Melee. If GS got included, it'd likely have to be for what it's already accomplished, not what it might in the future.

Of course Sakurai didn't include them because of that, but considering how it worked out, I wouldn't rule out Nintendo wanting to get the same result with a different franchise.

Nintendo is clearly using Smash as a "promotion device" already with the reveals and those are more than likely not Sakurai's doing...

Still, I'm not saying this HAS to happen with GS, it was just a thought.

 

[N3ON]

According to a Famitsu interview, Camelot stated DD was more of an "independent" project than the first two games:

That leads me to believe Nintendo was somehow more involved in the development of the previous games than this one.

Oh, well then I stand corrected. Perhaps it explains the dip in quality...

Though I doubt it makes it any less of a Nintendo game than the other two in Sakurai's eyes.

Of course Sakurai didn't include them because of that, but considering how it worked out, I wouldn't rule out Nintendo wanting to get the same result with a different franchise.

Nintendo is clearly using Smash as a "promotion device" already with the reveals and those are more than likely not Sakurai's doing...

Still, I'm not saying this HAS to happen with GS, it was just a thought.

The thing is while characters are revealed for promotional reasons, I doubt they are included for promotion reasons, that's a whole different thing. It's possible Nintendo could be exerting a larger influence over who to include than previously, but personally I'd assume Sakurai is still pretty much in control (a few exceptions notwithstanding). And even if Nintendo was deciding things a bit more than before... they'd probably opt to include characters from games that actually need promoting, not characters from series that might eventually get another title (unless they and Camelot already have finalized plans to continue with the series).

 

[Bassoonist]

He will get in. Stay positive.

It's hard to stay positive. =(

Although seeing this topic still on the first page is nice. I see Isaac mentioned a lot less in the lists and the fake leaks. While those are all speculation and Sakurai does what he wants (hence the Brawl roster which I did not believe until the very end), the arguments just don't seem as strong this time, and with the limited roster size I'm just not feeling very positive.

If he's there, I wish it could be confirmed fast, but at the same time I don't see Sakurai/Nintendo announcing him pre-release.

 

[EddyBearr]

Isaac remains one of my make-or-break characters.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm surprised you're back.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I support Issac. I recently began playing the first game and have been liking it. Issac would be a perfect projectile based character with sword attacks here and there.

Issac vs Shulk: Shulk wins

Xenoblade Chronicles has been more appraised and known than any Golden Sun game. Some company in Europe even voted it Nintendo's 9th best game of ALL TIME. As much as they both could make the cut, Shulk seems more likely.

I feel like this GIF has never been more appropriate than for Isaac Vs. Shulk debates.

I think it's kinda hazy which of the two has a better chance, I think it depends a lot on how Sakurai approaches them. What he considers important.

 

[UltimateWario]

Stuff

This guuuuuy, right here.

 

[FirstBlade]

Sorry if this has been brought up before but I saw somebody bring up music recently and I was wondering what GS music pieces you guys would like to see in a Smash 4 (whether Isaac is in or not).
To name a few:

 

[Bassoonist]

The Golden Sun series is full of SSB-worthy music, IMO.

Hey, maybe even if we don't get Isaac as a playable character, a GS stage might still be a possibility for the 3DS version, which might include a number of GS tracks. =)

 

[Arteen]

It's hard to stay positive. =(

Although seeing this topic still on the first page is nice. I see Isaac mentioned a lot less in the lists and the fake leaks. While those are all speculation and Sakurai does what he wants (hence the Brawl roster which I did not believe until the very end), the arguments just don't seem as strong this time, and with the limited roster size I'm just not feeling very positive.

If he's there, I wish it could be confirmed fast, but at the same time I don't see Sakurai/Nintendo announcing him pre-release.

For what it's worth, I think Isaac has a better chance this time around than during Brawl.

• Brawl cred. Sure, he was "just" an assist trophy, but that's better than a lot of characters can claim. He also had a clever assist trophy ability that represented one of the unique aspects of both the character and the game. Sakurai clearly saw that there was something special and unique to Golden Sun, otherwise Isaac would've gotten a forgettable attack move like Samurai Goroh, if he even appeared at all.
  
• He's got one more game than last time, which always helps. The GBA games told a single, self-contained story, so that might have been it for series. With Dark Dawn, it's clear that there are still more stories to be told in that world.
• His last game was also relatively recent when the roster was decided. There will be a shorter gap between Dark Dawn and SSB4 than between Lost Age and Brawl.
• After three games, nearly every major Nintendo character is already on the roster. Isaac's competition at this point is from other B-tier characters or from padding out existing franchises like Pokemon.

Of course, we remember how disappointing Brawl's roster turned out in the end, so SSB4's roster might end up similarly. I'm going in expecting an assist trophy, but I feel he's got a genuine shot at making the roster.

 

[FlareHabanero]

How the **** was Brawl's roster disappointing?

 

[FirstBlade]

How the **** was Brawl's roster disappointing?

People don't get one character that they want and then complain like hell for no apparent reason. If someone honestly thinks Brawl's roster was disappointing I'm inclined to think they don't like Nintendo or Smash period. I mean, honestly, he added a lot of characters people were asking for such as Wario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, King Dedede and Pit. What is the problem? Is it because it was missing K. Rool, Ridley, Isaac and Mewtwo among others? He still added a lot of fan favorites and that combined with the characters already in Smash (Mario, Kirby, Link, etc.) makes for a pretty big and diverse roster. Not saying people can't have their own opinion but I think it is pretty shallow to call a roster disappointing because it was missing one or two characters that they wanted when there are still plenty other characters they like in the game. It is also good to at least try out the new characters to see what they have to offer, you never know, you might end up liking them.

Sure, I'm disappointed Starfy was passed over but Villager and Megaman are there and I'm even excited to try out WFT and Rosaluma even if I didn't necessarily ask for them. Even if Isaac isn't in it, I'll still be excited to try out the new characters (especially because a lot of them look like some of the most unique ones yet).

 

[iam8bit]

Sorry if this has been brought up before but I saw somebody bring up music recently and I was wondering what GS music pieces you guys would like to see in a Smash 4 (whether Isaac is in or not).

Great choices there.

I'll try to post mines later.

 

[Arteen]

I thought Brawl's roster was disappointing because I didn't care for most of the newcomers. I'm more excited about Rosalina and Wii Fit Trainer than anyone from Brawl, Sonic excluded.

My comment was particularly regarding the very last newcomers, the ones that weren't revealed until the game's launch. There was a whole lot of speculation, anticipation and buildup about who the remaining fighters were going to be, and we ended up with a third Star Fox character and R.O.B.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So....

Project M?

 

[N3ON]

How the **** was Brawl's roster disappointing?

You'd get soooooooooo many replies to this anywhere on the site if it was early 2008.

I wasn't disappointed over Brawl's roster to any great extent, though generally people were expecting more characters than we got (whether that was sensible or not), but I was disappointed over the exclusions of some specific characters (yeah more than just Isaac).

So....

Project M?

Prolly

 

[FalKoopa]

I think it's good that I wasn't a part of the Brawl speculation. I wasn't disappointed by Brawl's roster one bit.

So....

Project M?

I'd like to see their take on Isaac, but given the limitations of the clone engine, I don't think they will be able to get as creative as Sakurai could possibly get. There is no character on Brawl's roster even remotely similar to Isaac, so if he ends up being clone-y, I fear it will reinforce the notion that Isaac is just another swordsman.

 

[Arteen]

I could imagine Isaac using Link as a base. They're about the same shape and size, so Isaac can borrow some of his basic moves and animations. All of Link's specials can be replaced with brand-new moves, as well as some of his tilts, smashes, aerials, etc on a case-by-case basis, until the Project M team is happy with the result. Link's projectiles can be repurposed as psynergy attacks.

Project M is on record for saying that they'd rather make a clone than a fully unique character (since the latter is an enormous amount of effort), so I expect any new Project M characters to be clone-y like Roy.

Surprisingly, Isaac is way out in front on Project M character speculation poll. He's even beating out the "hugely" popular Ridley by a fair amount. Hopefully that'll convince the PMBR that he's worth the effort of adding to the mod.

 

[Raetah]

About Soundtrack i always thinked that this is one the themes that defines Golden Sun greatly, and it was used to announce Dark Dawn in E3 2009(that didnt ended well, but still):

Here one of my favourites:

I dont know exactly why, but GBA version of Saturos theme really sounds better to me than the Dark Dawn version...

A character generally seems to be considered retro if the games in their series is limited to the NES or GB era. Perhaps SNES, but there's been no proof of that yet. Once a character has made an appearance more recent than that (as part of their series, not just a cameo), they're generally considered not to be retro any longer. Sakurai refers to these kind of characters as "classic" not "retro".

Characters like Takamaru, Mach Rider, Balloon Fighter, Sukapon, Bubbles, Duck Hunt Dog, Urban Champion, and possibly Muddy Mole, Prince Sable, and Lip could be considered "retro", among others.

Though this stuff is getting a bit off-topic.

Sorry for the off-topic but i consider this important, Retro character in this use i think that is a therm that it is exclusive to SSB comunity, then i may ask you if Sakurai referred to those characters as classic like you said, wouldnt be the possibility of he considering Little Mac a classic character although it dont accomplishes the conditions of the Fan therm retro?

 

[N3ON]

Sorry for the off-topic but i consider this important, Retro character in this use i think that is a therm that it is exclusive to SSB comunity, then i may ask you if Sakurai referred to those characters as classic like you said, wouldnt be the possibility of he considering Little Mac a classic character although it dont accomplishes the conditions of the Fan therm retro?

Yes, retro is a fan-term, Sakurai uses "classic" instead, and they're pretty much interchangeable in that regard. Having said that, considering who has listed previously as "classic characters" (Balloon Fighter, Excitebiker, Urban Champion, Bubbles, etc.) it's not too much of a stretch to think he limits who he considers classic to the NES era, especially considering to my knowledge he's never expanded that definition to include characters such as Mario, Link, and Samus who did also exist back then.

And if nothing else, when referring to the retro character he had in mind this time around, he said they would be capable of seeing a possible series revival such as Pit with Uprising, so, given that Little Mac has already had a series revival, it seems Sakurai no longer views him in the same vein as a character like the ones above.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, I know we should get a few trophies discussing Golden Sun characters on the 3DS version (since trophies will be focused more or less on console and portable franchises), and I have a good feeling we might get Isaac as a playable.

The downside is that we'll probably have to wait until the game is launched to find our for sure. I doubt Sakurai will post all of the playables on the website before the game is ready to be shipped out.

 

[Bassoonist]

Well, I know we should get a few trophies discussing Golden Sun characters on the 3DS version (since trophies will be focused more or less on console and portable franchises), and I have a good feeling we might get Isaac as a playable.

The downside is that we'll probably have to wait until the game is launched to find our for sure. I doubt Sakurai will post all of the playables on the website before the game is ready to be shipped out.

I agree. If Isaac is in the roster, he'd probably be one of the last to be revealed. While he would be a very exciting character for a number of us, Sakurai and Nintendo probably wouldn't see much benefit in showing him before release as they don't currently have any future GS titles or releases of any kind to hype, and as much as Isaac's reveal would hype me (and several of us here, I'm sure) up, he just doesn't seem like one of those big characters to hype up the game, sadly.

It's going to be a long and painful wait. D:

 

[iam8bit]

Unless he gets confirmed as an Assist again, that is...

Anywho, I'd like to add this track to the music selection from Golden Sun for Smash 4:

Just epic.

 

[Bassoonist]

Unless he gets confirmed as an Assist again, that is...

I certainly thought of posting about that possibility, but I decided to keep relatively optimistic.

He was an unlockable AT, so that might hurt the chances of him getting shown soon if he is a returning AT and not character, so either way we probably won't know for a long time.

 

[Raetah]

Looking from a different angle if not terrible or bad Isaac being an AT, considering that in Brawl Isaac was in company of great characters like Lyn, Shadow, Gray Fox or Little Mac. But personally if i could choose a secondary role for Isaac or any Adept in SSB, i would like to see Isaac in a Super Op Boss form, since Bosses are not limited like Playable Characters, it would be the best way to show the power of Golden Sun Adepts.