Is this game Broken? (New combos discovered)

[Teeb147]

I don't like busted, boring ladder combos like Meta Knight's that essentially turn the game into a game of fishing for your one OP combo, but if he wasn't gamebreaking in 4 I wouldn't be to worried here either.

That Falcon U-air to Knee better be true though, that's hype. It probably won't be, but it should. Just as long as that Nair chain isn't. I'm pretty sure I heard that footstools finally are techable in Ultimate, actually.

Metaknight wasnt really a great character besides dash attack and the ladder combos. But now he's better, has more aerial mobility, and if he can pull off these combos on top of that, it can be another broken character. I'd think they'll fix it eventually. All it could take is adjusting the knockback growth on up-air, i think.

I don't think Ill ever fully understand the anti combo sentiment, but that is neither here nor there, what I find interesting that several people here are surprised by meta knight when that was his one schichk in smash 4 without them knowing, and surprise surprise Mk didn't' dominate the sm4sh scene.

Most people need to realize that casuals won't run into this often, especially if matches are all ranked now. Another thing to consider is that wild speculation and uninformed nerf mobs are things that got little mac nerfed right after the games release despite him not being the strongest character.

I fully support exploring things to their full extent with months of experience with play and counter play to decide if something is broken but starting off a convo/thread with 'broken, lets patch this now' (paraphrasing/exaggeration), makes me uneasy, that said I throughway enjoyed the links and videos presented in the thread.

Combos can be boring. It doesnt give the person being comboed a chance to play during them, which means it's not really an exchange where both try to outplay each other. I don't find that to be 'competitive'. It's also not that interesting to do, when it's just doing the same moves as usual after the confirms.
I'm not against combos btw, I'm just against busted ones that make the battle boring to play. A lot of people felt it with bayo.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Metaknight wasnt really a great character besides dash attack and the ladder combos. But now he's better, has more aerial mobility, and if he can pull off these combos on top of that, it can be another broken character. I'd think they'll fix it eventually. All it could take is adjusting the knockback growth on up-air, i think.




Combos can be boring. It doesnt give the person being comboed a chance to play during them, which means it's not really an exchange where both try to outplay each other. I don't find that to be 'competitive'.
I'm not against combos btw, I'm just against busted ones that make the battle boring to play. A lot of people felt it with bayo.

I agree with the whole busted combos need to be avoided.

But I feel like that’s missing the point of combos in a fighting game. The point is to not let the combo happen or avoid a set up the leads to one when playing defensively or to for one win offense. There’s a bunch of risk/reward with big payouts if you’re skilled enough to pull off the more impressive ones. They’re supposed to relinquish control from the other player because they made a wrong move and are getting combo’d for their mistakes.

Obviously combos can be broken, but I always those complaints about combos always feel just kind of wrong to me.

But I also guess Smash doesn’t really have a combo breaker mechanic either...

 

[Rehnquist]

Metaknight wasnt really a great character besides dash attack and the ladder combos. But now he's better, has more aerial mobility, and if he can pull off these combos on top of that, it can be another broken character. I'd think they'll fix it eventually. All it could take is adjusting the knockback growth on up-air, i think.




Combos can be boring. It doesnt give the person being comboed a chance to play during them, which means it's not really an exchange where both try to outplay each other. I don't find that to be 'competitive'. It's also not that interesting to do, when it's just doing the same moves as usual after the confirms.
I'm not against combos btw, I'm just against busted ones that make the battle boring to play. A lot of people felt it with bayo.

You listed combos in general and listed many characters through your links with the statement that you hoped it got patched out. So I got the impression you meant more than just bayo or simply ladders. As the whole idea of a combo would prevent you a chance to play 'during' them.

 

[Teeb147]

I agree with the whole busted combos need to be avoided.

But I feel like that’s missing the point of combos in a fighting game. The point is to not let the combo happen or avoid a set up the leads to one when playing defensively or to for one win offense. There’s a bunch of risk/reward with big payouts if you’re skilled enough to pull off the more impressive ones. They’re supposed to relinquish control from the other player because they made a wrong move and are getting combo’d for their mistakes.

Obviously combos can be broken, but I always those complaints about combos always feel just kind of wrong to me.

But I also guess Smash doesn’t really have a combo breaker mechanic either...

You listed combos in general and listed many characters through your links with the statement that you hoped it got patched out. So I got the impression you meant more than just bayo or simply ladders. As the whole idea of a combo would prevent you a chance to play 'during' them.

Patched out? That's not what balance patches are for. Ladder combos are an example. KOs at very early percent are another, like possible rest combos. And then there's combos that either go on for long or are easy to keep going or are very safe to land and follows up with hard stuff, like falcon's nair to nair across the stage as well as nair to knee.


Combos or at least characters have to have a fair trade off for having something that's overly good. Combos are fine so long as they dont impede on a good flow of the game --to keep things dynamic enough for both players to keep playing alright. If some move is super easy to hit and lets someone rack up so much and maybe even finish off someone while other characters dont have anything like that and have to play incredibly careful against the busted stuff (and even then may get unlucky) and lose because of that, it's lacking a good balance overall, and is also not as pleasant to play.


And, this is a side note, (please dont lump it in with the rest of what i just said,).. personally, I would love for the game to have extended exchanges within one stock, and not just be about a few hits and then it's gone. But anyway, even if it'd get to that, I know that's not going to be the case for many characters, so as far as game balance goes, it's still important that some of these characters dont end up having too busted of combos.

Lastly, as far as 'wait till the game comes out', it's like yeah of course Im waiting for the game to come out and for the meta to evolve before coming to conclusions about it being broken or what not. I asked a question in the title for a reason, to start discussion on this. And it's already been worth it for some of the stuff that's been talked about.
What I mean is, there's no need to be.. fighting about a position (it being broken or not). I didn't start this thread to debate anyone, I wanted to open discussion, because I think it matters, and I think reacting all like 'oh stop making assumptions about the game or stop complaining' kind of overlooks the point of talking and makes me out to be something im not, as well as other stuff. Anyway, just wanted to say that.

 

[Rehnquist]

Patched out? That's not what balance patches are for. Ladder combos are an example. KOs at very early percent are another, like possible rest combos. And then there's combos that either go on for long or are easy to keep going or are very safe to land and follows up with hard stuff, like falcon's nair to nair across the stage as well as nair to knee.


Combos or at least characters have to have a fair trade off for having something that's overly good. Combos are fine so long as they dont impede on a good flow of the game --to keep things dynamic enough for both players to keep playing alright. If some move is super easy to hit and lets someone rack up so much and maybe even finish off someone while other characters have to play incredibly careful (and even then may get unlucky) and lose because of that, it's lacking a good balance overall, and is also not as pleasant to play.

And, this is a side note, please dont lump it in with the rest of what i just said, so.. personally, I would love for the game to have extended exchanges within one stock, and not just be about a few hits and then it's gone. But anyway, even if it'd get to that, I know that's not going to be the case for many characters, so as far as game balance goes, it's still important that some of these characters dont end up having too busted of combos.


Lastly, as far as 'wait till the game comes out', it's like yeah of course Im waiting for the game to come out and for the meta to evolve coming to conclusions about it being broken or what not. I asked a question in the title for a reason, to start discussion on this. And it's already been worth it for some of the stuff that's been talked about.
What I mean is, there's no need to be.. fighting about a position (it being broken or not). I didn't start this thread to debate anyone, I wanted to open discussion, because I think it matters, and I think reacting all like 'oh stop making assumptions about the game or stop complaining' kind of overlooks the point of talking and makes me out to be something im not, overlooks the point of talking. Anyway, just wanted to say that.

Fair enough, the first post felt pretty strong when the word broken and patch followed by a large slew of characters for the spot light lead the convo, that is what I think I and a few others might have been responding too. I think having people 'poke' you on that and having you fleshed out what you mean I think was a good thing though as I agree with most of what you said.

My main thing is I don't want singular trick pony characters based on a single combo, but I also don't want a one two combo smash, so having a varied about of moves combo into each other allows for creativity. I also agree about super safe and easy combos cleaning house without any back/forth being a bad thing as least as a dominate force.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

I don't get why some people are freaking out about this thread tbh.... I don't see how gathering information and sharing opinions is a bad thing (it's kind of the whole purpose of smashboards?).

Everybody is well aware that the game is in some people hands and labbing has already started at the moment so the whole 'wait til the game is out' argument is invalid imo. We do have info and footage, might as well analyze it.

It's never too early to spot potential balance issues imo. At worst we'll discover a busted combo and we'll look into it early, at best we'll find a very good combo and we'll use it.

With that being said maybe the title and/or the original post could be changed a lil' to reflect the true purpose of the thread (just an idea). The current ones seem to be interpreted as an invitation to debate wether or not the game itself is broken but from what i understand after reading Teeb147 's posts it's more an invitation to analyze footage/combos and spot if anything seems broken/overpowered.

Anyway... this clip was posted in the General Discussion thread. Broken or not this is some scary Meta-Knight gameplay:

actual matches this time. nado knockback is wild pic.twitter.com/0uiN8ivkpS

— Glacey (@_glacey) November 30, 2018

Any thoughts?

 

[Arrei]

Might be prime first patch material, but I don't know what they'd target specifically. Uair being able to combo into not just one but two early kill combos seems far too strong for what other characters are capable of so far, but being able to link into it so easily is also cause for concern. According to comments it's also a true kill combo if MK hits the front hit of Uair each time, so yeah, that has to get the axe. But if you fiddle with his knockback so he can't combo like this then he'll instantly fall into the trash heap. I almost think they're going to have to take away a couple of his air jumps to keep his aerial combos from always going bananas like this.

 

[Rakurai]

Keeping my fingers crossed for some crispy pre-release Wario combos.

I feel like he should have some new possibilities thanks to better frame data and ultilt basically being Smash 4 Mario's now.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

This was also posted earlier on the discussion thread, a guy said he found an infinite combo for

https://streamable.com/u09v8

I've ask Bakasama if he could look into it (he has access to the game, https://smashboards.com/threads/lan...rame-data-thread-training-mode-tested.464174/ )

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I'm pretty sure I heard that footstools finally are techable in Ultimate, actually.

Not if your opponent doesn't know....

 

[Hitzel]

Based on fighting games I've played in the past, a fast-paced fighting game with a neutral that enables outplaying each other + being able to kill in ~1-3 touches results in a super fun and interesting fighting game.

Even Marvel 3, a modern game that is notorious for having ridiculous touch of death combos and infinities, tends to have a super deliberate and complex neutral where players land lots of fringe pokes and chip damage before someone gets a good read and kills a character. Players play around the crazy one-shot combos because both players know they exist. Once you learn how to play a game like that you find it isn't a game where people just rub their faces together and see who gets TOD'd, but instead it's a dangerous chess match where every good read and mistake will have real consequences. In my experience it's a good thing.

In reality, what we're more likely to find is that the game really doesn't enable crazy combos as much, but if it's true hopefully the balance team doesn't pander to the complainers with mass nerfs instead of letting the game develop naturally. If anything, buff characters that lack crazy so they can be on board too instead of nerfing the capable ones.

I'll admit I'm not really as into Smash as most people here, but as someone who enjoys fighting games I think that allowing Smash to double-down on the crazy for an iteration will be a really fresh change to the series that will be fun to play and watch. I think that's enough reason to look forward to crazy bull**** combos and TODs instead of reacting negatively and wanting it removed so you can get back to the same kind of gameplay you're currently used to. Cheers.

 

[Teeb147]

I don't get why some people are freaking out about this thread tbh.... I don't see how gathering information and sharing opinions is a bad thing (it's kind of the whole purpose of smashboards?).

Everybody is well aware that the game is in some people hands and labbing has already started at the moment so the whole 'wait til the game is out' argument is invalid imo. We do have info and footage, might as well analyze it.

It's never too early to spot potential balance issues imo. At worst we'll discover a busted combo and we'll look into it early, at best we'll find a very good combo and we'll use it.

With that being said maybe the title and/or the original post could be changed a lil' to reflect the true purpose of the thread (just an idea). The current ones seem to be interpreted as an invitation to debate wether or not the game itself is broken but from what i understand after reading Teeb147 's posts it's more an invitation to analyze footage/combos and spot if anything seems broken/overpowered.

Anyway... this clip was posted in the General Discussion thread. Broken or not this is some scary Meta-Knight gameplay:

actual matches this time. nado knockback is wild pic.twitter.com/0uiN8ivkpS

— Glacey (@_glacey) November 30, 2018

Any thoughts?

Yeh.. metaknight is looking a little too good right now. Hopefully it doesnt take too long to change.

Might be prime first patch material, but I don't know what they'd target specifically. Uair being able to combo into not just one but two early kill combos seems far too strong for what other characters are capable of so far, but being able to link into it so easily is also cause for concern. According to comments it's also a true kill combo if MK hits the front hit of Uair each time, so yeah, that has to get the axe. But if you fiddle with his knockback so he can't combo like this then he'll instantly fall into the trash heap. I almost think they're going to have to take away a couple of his air jumps to keep his aerial combos from always going bananas like this.

Metaknight is better in general now, he can actually use his aerials (like on landing), he's got better mobility, and he still has good ko options, so he doesnt need broken combos. I think it just pushes him ahead. Abadango said that MK is the best character in the game right now. (and I think that was before these new things found)

Based on fighting games I've played in the past, a fast-paced fighting game with a neutral that enables outplaying each other + being able to kill in ~1-3 touches results in a super fun and interesting fighting game.

Even Marvel 3, a modern game that is notorious for having ridiculous touch of death combos and infinities, tends to have a super deliberate and complex neutral where players land lots of fringe pokes and chip damage before someone gets a good read and kills a character. Players play around the crazy one-shot combos because both players know they exist. Once you learn how to play a game like that you find it isn't a game where people just rub their faces together and see who gets TOD'd, but instead it's a dangerous chess match where every good read and mistake will have real consequences. In my experience it's a good thing.

In reality, what we're more likely to find is that the game really doesn't enable crazy combos as much, but if it's true hopefully the balance team doesn't pander to the complainers with mass nerfs instead of letting the game develop naturally. If anything, buff characters that lack crazy so they can be on board too instead of nerfing the capable ones.

I'll admit I'm not really as into Smash as most people here, but as someone who enjoys fighting games I think that allowing Smash to double-down on the crazy for an iteration will be a really fresh change to the series that will be fun to play and watch. I think that's enough reason to look forward to crazy bull**** combos and TODs instead of reacting negatively and wanting it removed so you can get back to the same kind of gameplay you're currently used to. Cheers.

Melee was like that. It's alright, but I like the direction smash 4 was heading (before they stopped patching), and I can't argue that it's 'better' (and i prefer the new speed in ultimate, too), because everyone has different tastes, but considering the state of all characters and balance, it's much easier to balance by removing crazy combos, and that doesnt mean having to nerf everything that's good. And I do agree on buffing lower characters instead of nerfing higher ones besides that. (as much as they can)

What it's looking like is that at least some characters will still have awesome combos and stuff, and if it's balanced well it wont be overbearing on other characters, so we can have a happy medium between melee and smash 4. I think that's what they were going for, so I hope that it gets addressed well to uphold that, and again that doesnt mean there can't be really cool combos and mixups too. We'll see what happens.

 

[GhostYB]

LUL thats really funny but this doesnt mean the game is broken imo. its better to just wait it out and see combos like this will effect the meta

 

[mugwhump]

Combos can be boring. It doesnt give the person being comboed a chance to play during them, which means it's not really an exchange where both try to outplay each other.

That's why combos in smash are more interesting than other fighters; the person being combo'd is still actively participating thanks to DI. That, along with percent-based knockback, also makes smash combos more improvisational than memorization-based.

Although that's more the case in melee than sm4sh, since in the latter only moves that make you tumble can be DI'd (though you can still SDI).

 

[osby]

That's why combos in smash are more interesting than other fighters; the person being combo'd is still actively participating thanks to DI. That, along with percent-based knockback, also makes smash combos more improvisational than memorization-based.

Although that's more the case in melee than sm4sh, since in the latter only moves that make you tumble can be DI'd (though you can still SDI).

I'm so glad that I'm actively participating when Bayonetta or Meta Knight combos me into oblivion.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

This was also posted earlier on the discussion thread, a guy said he found an infinite combo for

https://streamable.com/u09v8

I've ask Bakasama if he could look into it (he has access to the game, https://smashboards.com/threads/lan...rame-data-thread-training-mode-tested.464174/ )

The 'infinite' combo has been tested and debunked (phew!):
''I just did it in real time, its not an infinite, even controlling both controllers not frame by frame I just wiggled the stick from up left to up right over and over and SDI'd out as ganon super easily. - The fact that it requires the opponent to be grounded and facing you to get the second disable makes it even easier to escape, because your SDI doesn't need to be good, it just needs to get you off the ground.

What's scarier about mewtwo is that confusion goes even, so if they don't have a move faster than fair, they have to airdodge after getting confusion'd every single time.''

I'm so glad that I'm actively participating when Bayonetta or Meta Knight combos me into oblivion.

Now now, you're just being a bad sport, combos are always about skill and good knowledge of the meta and you can always... D... I...

Spoiler

...I.. hmmmm... well... I..

(this is only a joke btw)

 

[mugwhump]

I'm so glad that I'm actively participating when Bayonetta or Meta Knight combos me into oblivion.

Yes, that's why I said melee moreso than Smash 4.

 

[Luigifan18]

Yes, that's why I said melee moreso than Smash 4.

In Melee, you were being combo'd into oblivion by Jigglypuff or the Ice Climbers. Ever heard of the wall of pain? How about wobbling?

 

[ZephyrZ]

Based on fighting games I've played in the past, a fast-paced fighting game with a neutral that enables outplaying each other + being able to kill in ~1-3 touches results in a super fun and interesting fighting game.

Even Marvel 3, a modern game that is notorious for having ridiculous touch of death combos and infinities, tends to have a super deliberate and complex neutral where players land lots of fringe pokes and chip damage before someone gets a good read and kills a character. Players play around the crazy one-shot combos because both players know they exist. Once you learn how to play a game like that you find it isn't a game where people just rub their faces together and see who gets TOD'd, but instead it's a dangerous chess match where every good read and mistake will have real consequences. In my experience it's a good thing.

In reality, what we're more likely to find is that the game really doesn't enable crazy combos as much, but if it's true hopefully the balance team doesn't pander to the complainers with mass nerfs instead of letting the game develop naturally. If anything, buff characters that lack crazy so they can be on board too instead of nerfing the capable ones.

I'll admit I'm not really as into Smash as most people here, but as someone who enjoys fighting games I think that allowing Smash to double-down on the crazy for an iteration will be a really fresh change to the series that will be fun to play and watch. I think that's enough reason to look forward to crazy bull**** combos and TODs instead of reacting negatively and wanting it removed so you can get back to the same kind of gameplay you're currently used to. Cheers.

I suppose what you could say is that a high stakes and tense neutral is what actually makes fighting games interesting, which is a point I defintely agree with. Powerful and lethal combos are just one way to acheive that.

On that note, I think there are ways to balance these combos and ways not to. The more powerful the combo, the more risky it has to be to set up. Sm4sh Meta Knight's dash attack is too powerful of a combo starter, imo. It can punish too many things too easily with the distance it covers. It doesn't help that his up air strings are a drawn out and boring to play against or watch, but if that combo was more difficult to start it'd still be much more "hype" then it currently is.

Meanwhile, while Sm4sh Ryu's combo starters have amazing frame data and can potentially combo into incrediblely power Shoryuken, their incredibly short ranges mean that they are hard to set up and have clear counterplays. They're easy to out space with most characters, so when he lands one the reward for it usually feels completely deserved. His combos also tend to be both faster and more varied then Meta Knight's. They're quick and to the point, and thus don't put an action to a screeching halt the same way more drawn out MK / Bayo ladders and especially chain grabs and wobbles do. Fitting that the OG fighting game character demonstrates how to do combos right.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Meta Knight 'bout to hit that destrUCC on ayo

 

[Quillion]

Hey guys, can someone here give me the skinny on how the "combo versatility" is faring in this game as of now?

Smash 4's big problem across many of its characters was huge "combo linearity". I hope this game will have good combo variety.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Hey guys, can someone here give me the skinny on how the "combo versatility" is faring in this game as of now?

Smash 4's big problem across many of its characters was huge "combo linearity". I hope this game will have good combo variety.

Looks like everyone has at least one or two broken combos. And I mean literally everyone.

 

[gramkracka22]

Those bots aren't DIing, those aren't real combos

I've played a lot of ultimate, it is not broken

 

[mugwhump]

In Melee, you were being combo'd into oblivion by Jigglypuff or the Ice Climbers. Ever heard of the wall of pain? How about wobbling?

Wobbling is an exploit. Generally, in the large majority of cases, DI meant the person being combo'd had some say in how it played out. Not a controversial statement.

 

[Quillion]

Looks like everyone has at least one or two broken combos. And I mean literally everyone.

Let me guess, they're all vertical combos, right?

Ugh... this is what hitstun being entirely tied to knockback does to balance.

 

[BigMac1304]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but (1) these are CPUs and (2) These can supposedly be easily avoided with the D - Air Dodge. Maybe Sakurai made the D - Air dodge for this reason - to make balancing less needed.

 

[Questionmark222]

At least there isn't a risk that my main and my secondary could get nerfed to the ground due to busted combos...

Unless Hbox discovers a 0-to-death with K. Rool because, may I remind you, he'll be his secondary (https://twitter.com/LiquidHbox/status/1046476654409928704).

 

[Justin Allen Goldschmidt]

Yeah, so the training mode may have options for setting the CPU to DI and SDI, but they only do it when not set to idle, and even then woth this being an actual player, Wolf is a character that's literally meant to be combo food if he screws up. That combo wouldn't even faze characters like Luigi or the other floaties. Plus, I'm fairly confident that Wolf's reflector comes out fast enough to stuff that if he uses varying DI to mess with the Meta Knight player's spacing. I just wanna test it now lol

 

[ZephyrZ]

At least there isn't a risk that my main and my secondary could get nerfed to the ground due to busted combos...

I don't think there'd be much of a risk anyway. Smash has had a great track record with not going too overboard with nerfs, people just tend to overreact when they happen.

 

[Khao]

Let me guess, they're all vertical combos, right?

Ugh... this is what hitstun being entirely tied to knockback does to balance.

Not all of them, actually! Seems like quite a few characters have combos that involve hitting your opponent further and further away as you chase them. Meta Knight's most effective combo kills off to the side. Falcon can link Nairs together while pushing opponents forward. Inkling even seems to have a Ken Combo. I mean an actual, true probably inescapable Ken Combo. There does seem to be a lot of variety.

 

[Madwario]

Honestly the Game and Watch combo is starting to worry me abit.

 

[Quillion]

Not all of them, actually! Seems like quite a few characters have combos that involve hitting your opponent further and further away as you chase them. Meta Knight's most effective combo kills off to the side. Falcon can link Nairs together while pushing opponents forward. Inkling even seems to have a Ken Combo. I mean an actual, true probably inescapable Ken Combo. There does seem to be a lot of variety.

It kinda sounds like only the fast-moving characters will have actual combo variety if this is the case.

 

[Luigifan18]

Not all of them, actually! Seems like quite a few characters have combos that involve hitting your opponent further and further away as you chase them. Meta Knight's most effective combo kills off to the side. Falcon can link Nairs together while pushing opponents forward. Inkling even seems to have a Ken Combo. I mean an actual, true probably inescapable Ken Combo. There does seem to be a lot of variety.

Don't forget Jigglypuff and the wall of pain! I'm truly excited for its return to glory.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Let me guess, they're all vertical combos, right?

Ugh... this is what hitstun being entirely tied to knockback does to balance.

Some horizontal, some vertical, some in any which way, depending on DI. True and janky nonetheless.

 

[Grunky Peep]

The day one patch is probably going to make a lot of this irrelevant. We can't get too worked up about things.

 

[Quillion]

The day one patch is probably going to make a lot of this irrelevant. We can't get too worked up about things.

The question is: how are they going to patch them out? Are they just going to remove the combos via more lag (the wrong way), or are they going to decrease damage and effectiveness through a bit higher base knockback (the right way)?

 

[Teeb147]

Well here's the icey's zero to death combo:

ics desync 0 to death pic.twitter.com/uGpFzFwJQ7

— meowmix (@meowmixMVS) December 1, 2018

don't get back aired..

 

[Gameboi834]

Is Smash 64 broken?/QUOTE]

Unironically yes, it's broken in a lot of ways.

 

[Grunky Peep]

The question is: how are they going to patch them out? Are they just going to remove the combos via more lag (the wrong way), or are they going to decrease damage and effectiveness through a bit higher base knockback (the right way)?

We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[pap64]

Patches, updates, buffs, nerfs, upgrades, downgrades...Everyone is acting like this game won't be fixed and patched at all like in the Melee and Brawl days. I am not worried at all if the game right now seems "broken"; most people are likely playing a leaked copy of the game because Mexicans vendors broke street date and it;s likely that any day one patches and upgrades have not been officially implemented yet.

Also...

ALL FIGHTING GAMES ARE TECHNICALLY BROKEN

We live in an age in which fighting games boast rosters of 50 plus characters. No longer are we stuck with 8 or 10 characters. This creates a lot more work in order to properly balance, patch, and upgrade each character and the overall game engine. I know that for Smash it is different because players have created their personal meta games out of these glitches and broken combos (hello Melee and Brawl Metaknight!). But again, this game will be fixed and patched. It happened during Smash 4's cycle. Will ALL the issues be fixed? Not likely. But does that mean we have to run around saying 'ULTIMATE IS BROKEN!!!"? I don't think so.