Is The Patch Coming Soon?

[CT Chia]

BtL2 is less than a week away and if Ness is going to be fixed it should be sooner than later so Ness mains (and everyone in general) can adapt.

That, and wasn't one of the problems that the same match can't have a Samus and ZSS at the same time?

Also adding SSE Jungle and Magus' textures for the stage and buffer icons would help a lot

 

[shanus]

yeah... about that patch...


working on it might be a good idea lmao

 

[_Yes!_]

I agree with Chibo. I never knew how ******** ness was until I experienced it firsthand today. He's literally the new metaknight of brawl+. I highly expect the btl2 results will be skewed because ness is so broken.

 

[shanus]

I agree with Chibo. I never knew how ******** ness was until I experienced it firsthand today. He's literally the new metaknight of brawl+. I highly expect the btl2 results will be skewed because ness is so broken.

i have a balanced version of ness made and i believe a fixed version of the samus pac, if thats what people are concerned about.

 

[CT Chia]

yea those r the main things, even just getting them would be amazing,

though i would also love if SSE Jungle could be added so i could use it at the tourney

 

[Veril]

We definitely should use the new Ness version. Everyone seems to agree.

 

[shanus]

I've barely gotten feedback from people on it, but from what i have gotten its positive. I mean its trivial as **** to SDI out of now :-\

 

[Isatis]

Releasing the patch before BtL2 is a good idea; we were joking in the IRC about 3 weeks ago that because Ness was so good that he was the new Meta Knight that someone asked, "So who here is picking up Ness?" and everyone said, "I am!" While it was a joke, at 2am no less, even the community knew how good Ness was, and it was kind of sad.

Also adding SSE Jungle and Magus' textures for the stage and buffer icons would help a lot

If everyone wants to, I can add SSE Jungle to the updater's server. I don't get what you mean by "Magus' textures for the stage" and "buffer icons" though.

 

[_Yes!_]

Please have the ness balances asap. Anything helps in making him less broken...

 

[CT Chia]

Releasing the patch before BtL2 is a good idea; we were joking in the IRC about 3 weeks ago that because Ness was so good that he was the new Meta Knight that someone asked, "So who here is picking up Ness?" and everyone said, "I am!" While it was a joke, at 2am no less, even the community knew how good Ness was, and it was kind of sad.



If everyone wants to, I can add SSE Jungle to the updater's server. I don't get what you mean by "Magus' textures for the stage" and "buffer icons" though.

magus' texture things are in the download he put in this post
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8796666&postcount=6

he has a common5 pac that has all the things currently replaced + buffer icon + stage icons

before u do that, do u want me to hook u up with the official team color textures that have the CSPs and CBPs with em?

 

[Isatis]

Leaf suggested making a new option in the autoupdater ("Download team textures? (Y/N)") which I'm releasing tomorrow (after college paperwork is sorted out), which will have Magus's common5.pac and your CSP's and CBP's. I got your texture pack already downloaded so don't worry about that.

 

[shanus]

I will *try* to post a complete file set tonight that *everyone* will need to test before we put it out to the public.

 

[CT Chia]

will SSE Jungle be in it? If so I'm going to announce the BtL2 stage list now
in which the only personal deviations from the WBR list would be corneria banned, WW CP in doubles, WWR CP in singles, Jungle Starter in both

 

[VietGeek]

I'm going to see what exactly is wrong with Wolf's UpB...

and for the Samus jab, is Yeroc already working on it?

What did we decide to do to that?

We could always increase SDIability and lower BKB (which dictates hitstun...right?)

 

[Isatis]

will SSE Jungle be in it? If so I'm going to announce the BtL2 stage list now
in which the only personal deviations from the WBR list would be corneria banned, WW CP in doubles, WWR CP in singles, Jungle Starter in both

Shanus said yes to SSE Jungle being in the patch in the IRC, and I'm releasing autoupdater 5.3 tonight.

 

[GHNeko]

Wait. So we're tossing stages into this or is Bowser Battle an exception?

 

[The Cape]

This has to seriously be the stupidiest thing the WBR has ever done. You refuse to change this set for months at a time, and then 4 days before the biggest tournament ever scheduled you decide to release a patch that gives a big middle finger to all Ness players? Thats like saying "Oh dont bother playing our set for three months because we will completely change your main right before the event itself."

On top of that idiocy which is going to completely crush even more credibility, you are going to leave in alot of the stupid **** that should have been fixed a long time ago like ZSS D throw being an auto combo at any percent; the current Fox down air combos and the like? This is not only stupid, but also the worst thing you can do to keep the community. You will further destroy any credibility that is left from the WBR and will just create more situations like the one where NinjaLink quit Brawl+ due to seeing the sheer idiocy that goes on back here in the back room.

If you want to release this patch, thats fine, but you are just giving your community a big middle finger a few days before the biggest tournament to date and if Chibo accepts this patch for BtL2 he will be doing the exact same and losing credibility for himself as a tournament host.

I have seen plenty of stupid things going on back here as time has gone on, but this seriously has to be the worst.

 

[shanus]

I too don't think we should release the patch pre-BtL2, I'd rather not rush it and just get everything right before hand.

However, I do think we should patch in the samus pac fix, as that is rather game breaking for samus and zamus players.

 

[leafgreen386]

edit: Wow I'm slow. That's what I get for lingering on the post page for a while before actually typing my message.

IT MIGHT BE JUST A LITTLE BIT TOO LATE YOU THINK.

Cape is completely right. We make a set that we claim will be left to sit for a while, for the purpose of letting a metagame develop or whatever BS we were telling them. Then, right before the tourney, we finally decide to act on something that's been long recognized to be broken, and then go ahead and throw in a ton of other stuff with it, including adding a whole new stage? It's just a little irresponsible. There's just no good option at this point, but the lesser of two evils is probably just not releasing the patch until after btl2.

 

[_Yes!_]

This has to seriously be the stupidiest thing the WBR has ever done. You refuse to change this set for months at a time, and then 4 days before the biggest tournament ever scheduled you decide to release a patch that gives a big middle finger to all Ness players? Thats like saying "Oh dont bother playing our set for three months because we will completely change your main right before the event itself."

On top of that idiocy which is going to completely crush even more credibility, you are going to leave in alot of the stupid **** that should have been fixed a long time ago like ZSS D throw being an auto combo at any percent; the current Fox down air combos and the like? This is not only stupid, but also the worst thing you can do to keep the community. You will further destroy any credibility that is left from the WBR and will just create more situations like the one where NinjaLink quit Brawl+ due to seeing the sheer idiocy that goes on back here in the back room.

If you want to release this patch, thats fine, but you are just giving your community a big middle finger a few days before the biggest tournament to date and if Chibo accepts this patch for BtL2 he will be doing the exact same and losing credibility for himself as a tournament host.

I have seen plenty of stupid things going on back here as time has gone on, but this seriously has to be the worst.

You're the idiot. You just destroyed your credibility.

I don't remember where but you definitely posted that you're using ness to prove to WBR about how broken he is (which i think is bull**** by the way). If you're really so anti ness, you'd be all for this patch.

Ness is retardedly broken now. Fair -> fair -> fair -> uair is a legit combo at any percent.

His down b stops any approach, and heals from projectiles.

His pk thunder is like a freakin machine gun.

He's light and floaty, meaning it's hard to combo him. At least fox gets combo'd and gimped to hell, and his aerial range is bad. ZSS is mediocre. Ness is almost perfect.

Edit: The idea of it being too late to release the patch may be valid, but this patch is essential. Results will most likely be skewed because ness is so broken. You can throw moves out there and they'll work. If it was something trivial I honestly wouldn't care, but I'm predicting that if there's alot of ness players at this, then there will be alot of ness players in the top 10.

 

[CT Chia]

It is too late but only the WBR is to be blamed for that.

Put the Samus pac fix (since atm can't samus and zss not be on the screen at the same time?)

and add Jungle. Whether or not jungle is used is up to the rules, but it would be nice to have the option. its replacing a banned stage as it is.

 

[The Cape]

If Ness is that easy to play, why have you not yet picked him up?

Its not the character that is being played, the fact that I (or anyone else plays them) has been practicing a character for MONTHS and then right before a huge tourney that they have been practicing all this for their character suddenly changes that would be devestating.

If the WBR here actually decided to remove alot of this Fox auto combo BS or his really low ALRs (5 frames on nair?) and things like Shine to U smash you would throw a fit. Even if it wasnt this close to the tourney I know you would be pissed. You already showed your anger when we talked about making Fox and Falco sideBs a bit less crazy. You didnt want people to touch Fox, which was your actual words.

The entire problem that I have with this thing is not the fact that I play the character but the fact that releasing a patch that has been needed and ignored for the longest time a mere 4 days before the biggest Brawl+ tournament of all time will completely destroy the WBR credibility.

Yes I did pick up Ness to show off how stupid and broken he is, but no one listened to me specifically anyway so that part fell through anyway, but the fact that it was chosen at this time to change the character is extremely irresponsible. If you had been practicing Ness because you knew how stupid he was and then had to fall onto another character this close to the event you would be livid. I can see many other people being in that situation. I myself dont give a **** because I play multiple characters, but from a professional and intelligent point of view the release of this patch is a terrible idea at this very time.

 

[_Yes!_]

If Ness is that easy to play, why have you not yet picked him up?

I only play characters I like, and he doesn't fit my style.

Its not the character that is being played, the fact that I (or anyone else plays them) has been practicing a character for MONTHS and then right before a huge tourney that they have been practicing all this for their character suddenly changes that would be devestating.

Your character that doesn't really take months of practice is going to skew results. If there's alot of ness players, they will be in top 10 regardless of skill (unless they're trash) The last btl had one, ONE fox player in top 10, and fox has been nerfed since then.

If the WBR here actually decided to remove alot of this Fox auto combo BS or his really low ALRs (5 frames on nair?) and things like Shine to U smash you would throw a fit. Even if it wasnt this close to the tourney I know you would be pissed. You already showed your anger when we talked about making Fox and Falco sideBs a bit less crazy. You didnt want people to touch Fox, which was your actual words.

His auto combo is only to 30-40% from 0%. Ness's autocombos are at any percent and can do 60-70.

I don't use shine to usmash. It doesn't work on every character and I've found other ways to connect the usmash.

Your actual words were that you use ness to prove that he's broken (which imo is BS. you want to win, which is fine, but don't try to lie.)

I thought the sideb was going to be drastic like melee side b.

The entire problem that I have with this thing is not the fact that I play the character but the fact that releasing a patch that has been needed and ignored for the longest time a mere 4 days before the biggest Brawl+ tournament of all time will completely destroy the WBR credibility.

That's the WBR's fault.

Yes I did pick up Ness to show off how stupid and broken he is, but no one listened to me specifically anyway so that part fell through anyway, but the fact that it was chosen at this time to change the character is extremely irresponsible. If you had been practicing Ness because you knew how stupid he was and then had to fall onto another character this close to the event you would be livid. I can see many other people being in that situation. I myself dont give a **** because I play multiple characters, but from a professional and intelligent point of view the release of this patch is a terrible idea at this very time.

You're right, that's the wbr's fault. Just don't sugar coat it. If you really think he's that broken then don't use him yourself. If you want to win, that's perfectly legit.

As I said before, I don't use Ness because I don't care about the games he's from, and he doesn't fit my style or tastes.

....

All in all, WBR is to blame for delaying and not having balls to release it before the tourney sooner.

You obviously have the right to be upset. If you were denying that ness was broken, I'd have a huge problem with your posts. I know fox is broken, but the fact that he gets ***** so hard by combos and gimps somewhat evens it out.

 

[VietGeek]

There's a lot of tension here for very legitimate reasons, but I'm gonna break the ice car and propose a bare-bones, "essentials" patch.

This means just ironing out glitches that have popped up in this RC1 release, not adjustments of characters; simply things that unintentionally interfere with normal gameplay and the like.

The Samus/Zamus loading glitch is an obvious one, and I feel the Wolf UpB whiff is also something that can be considered a glitch (unless free Dsmash follow-ups from a whiffed UpB connection is all fair game and legitimately part of Wolf's meta).

I agree that the WBR is at fault for letting this set linger too long even when this glitches were discovered within 24 hours of release (and the Samus loading one was found internally), but this is the least we can do.

Fix what we should've fixed long ago but not **** anyone over. A compromise if you will.

Also if this sounded incoherent, excuse me for not good at english

 

[The Cape]

Viet I think has the best idea here. Glitch fix, but not balance fix. Work on the balance fixes for release after BtL2 as a tourney is serious business. Glitch fixes are fine though.

 

[leafgreen386]

+1 to viet

 

[JCaesar]

I've been using the Wolf glitch quite a bit and I'd be kinda disappointed if it was removed right before this tourney.

 

[VietGeek]

I suppose you could argue that for the Yoshi DJC glitch too.

Hmm...

 

[Revven]

The way I see it: let BTL2 use the glitch fixed set (no Ness change or any balance change at all) and while BTL2 is going on, people can get some free time before/after to actually TEST the Ness changes. Right now, a lot of the good players are too busy practicing for BtL2 to actually test anything related to Ness.

So, I mostly agree with Viet right now.

 

[GHNeko]

You say glitch fix, and no balance fix, but would that apply to stages as well?

 

[goodoldganon]

First off I believe we should not include the Jungle Stage for BtL2. No new stages should be added till they can have further testing. The stage is great with Magus's fixes but I just think it's not worth adding at the last minute.

Now before I begin know that I can see both sides of the stance. I really think we needed to have these changes out on November 1st like I had said in another topic (maybe here) but that time has passed and I feel it is just too late to make a change. But do see if from this side:

Which is worse for the credibility of the WBR and the project as a whole? Will making a last minute balance change like this shoot any credibility we have in the foot? Will we run the risk of running off more people like NL? Is it fair to mains of any character to always have it hanging over their heads that moments before a tournament they could get nerfed? We don't know obviously and I won't pretend I have the answer. Now think at it from the other angle:

Is it worse for the credibility of the WBR and project as a whole to leave Ness in as is? (let's face it, the whole balance debate comes down to this one character) Is it worse for the whole project to 'balance' this one character moments before B+'s breakout tournament? We have 38 other untouched characters for the tourney. (Wolf might get an Up-b fix if the change went in, hardly metagame changing) Do we hurt our credibility by running the risk of a tournament run by 1 really good Ness who does nothing else but spam easy f-air combos? Once again no one knows.

As I said, I see both sides of the argument. Personally, after playing an MMO for 4 years I'm of the side that says 'tough ****' to the Ness mains because I play a game that can change at a moments notice. But fighting games and MMOs are apples to oranges.

I just wanted to try and ask questions for both sides to think about. Food for thought.

 

[Veril]

At first I really thought we should keep the codeset as is for BtL2. The thing is given how universally accepted it is that Ness needs to get fixed, we hurt our credibility if we choose not to act on something which is quickly becoming obvious to everyone. The fix isn't dramatic and we'd be foolish to allow THE major tourney take place without it.

I think we did very well given that we've only really been compelled to fix one character balance-wise so far (coming from 5.0). Admitting we were wrong and correcting the mistakes is the right course of action, and I think the community understands this (everyone I've talked to outside the wbr has supported the fix)

 

[leafgreen386]

Well, I can safely say that if any balance changes do make it in this last-minute patch, it should only be the ness fair. The PKT1 speedup will have to be left alone until after the tournament, since it's far too game-changing for him. Other than that, only bugfixes should be put in.

It basically comes down to whether we'll be worse off making this one balance change or if we'd be better of just letting ness be knowingly broken in the set for BTL2 to keep our promise of a non-changing game. I think you can tell by the way I worded that which way I'm leaning right now, although I'm still open to hearing others' thoughts on this.