Is Lucario more than we think in Smash Bros 4?

[Deleted member]

So last time I checked Lucario was #5 on the tier list, but is he more op than that? It looks like it.
First, I did a test earlier, and Lucarios Fully charged recovery covered almost 54 stage builder blocks! Next, unlike Samus Aura Sphere can be charged in air, which I find a good response to recovering characters. Believe it or not, double team might be Lucario's strongest move, it can be super unpredictable! If youmain Lucario in the 4th game you know what I mean. I understand why Lucario was only a B in the brawl tier, but I still think he's amazing in the new games. Did I mention force palm is a nice ledge guard? The one thing I don't like about Lucario is he has no meteor smashing attacks.

 

[Croi]

If you main Lucario in the 4th game, you also know how difficult and frustrating he is to master. It's like he's level 90 and we only have the Thunder Badge.

Time will tell, but atm I don't think I'd actually say he's top tier.

 

[Steam]

Think there's already a thread for this, but it's long dead so I'll let this live.

The short answer is no, 5 is a very generous spot for him as most are putting him near the bottom or just outside of the top 10. Do not ever trust eventhubs tier lists, they are generally awful.

 

[Deleted member]

We

Think there's already a thread for this, but it's long dead so I'll let this live.

The short answer is no, 5 is a very generous spot for him as most are putting him near the bottom or just outside of the top 10. Do not ever trust eventhubs tier lists, they are generally awful.

Probably just me thinking my main is amazing just because I don't realize how good it am at smash, happened on a few other sites. XD And I mistook 2 tier list, event hubs isn't that reliable.

 

[Deleted member]

If you main Lucario in the 4th game, you also know how difficult and frustrating he is to master. It's like he's level 90 and we only have the Thunder Badge.

Time will tell, but atm I don't think I'd actually say he's top tier.

We'll he's my main in 3DS, so maybe I forgot how hard he was to master.

 

[RT]

On paper, he is amazing. You're obviously going to take hits, and he does more damage/knockback when he's at high percents. Easy win, right?

But no, he's not as good as people think. A lot of his moves are slow and unsafe until he gets Aura. Most people cannot just pick up Lucario and do good, because his playstyle is unique. Just like in Brawl, characters that can get low-percent kills counter the Aura mechanic. Lucario also does not handle pressure well at all.

 

[Kami~]

If you main Lucario in the 4th game, you also know how difficult and frustrating he is to master. It's like he's level 90 and we only have the Thunder Badge.

Time will tell, but atm I don't think I'd actually say he's top tier.

lol. He is definitely top tier, just the 4-5 chars above him destroy his neutral. He destroys everyone else

 

[Steam]

lol. He is definitely top tier, just the 4-5 chars above him destroy his neutral. He destroys everyone else

that number will go up as metagames develop further and people play more perfect IMO. Lucario can't really impose anything in his matchups and is forced to rely on punishes or hard reads. As people approach perfect play those opportunities go down. He's still good but I think he'll end up outside the top 10.

 

[RT]

I think he'll end up in top 10 but always near the bottom. Unless there is something people are missing/haven't discovered, Lucario's meta won't change very much in the years to come imo. I hope I'm wrong...

 

[Steam]

I think he'll end up in top 10 but always near the bottom. Unless there is something people are missing/haven't discovered, Lucario's meta won't change very much in the years to come imo. I hope I'm wrong...

I hope you're right. I don't want lucario to end up super top tier and get overrused or nerfed

 

[RT]

Nah, he will never be top of top tier, especially if they never have another balance patch. Diddy is just too good (though I think Lucario actually does okay in this matchup), and most of the top tiers are just easier to play. It'll be Brawl all over again.

 

[Steam]

Nah, he will never be top of top tier, especially if they never have another balance patch. Diddy is just too good (though I think Lucario actually does okay in this matchup), and most of the top tiers are just easier to play. It'll be Brawl all over again.

this game isn't nearly as ridiculous as brawl in terms of the top tiers.

 

[RT]

Yes, but it's still the whole "why should I play this character when these characters are so much better" attitude. Hence why many people went through their character-of-the-week phase. Now that it's obvious that Diddy is good, you won't see too many people switching from him unless a balance patch comes out.

Of course, this means people won't understand certain matchup because all they every play are the same top tiers over and over again. And since the game isn't as unbalanced as Brawl overall, this will hurt them eventually.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, but it's still the whole "why should I play this character when these characters are so much better" attitude. Hence why many people went through their character-of-the-week phase. Now that it's obvious that Diddy is good, you won't see too many people switching from him unless a balance patch comes out.

Of course, this means people won't understand certain matchup because all they every play are the same top tiers over and over again. And since the game isn't as unbalanced as Brawl overall, this will hurt them eventually.

Yeah, brawl is definitely not what I would call a "balanced" fighting game.

 

[Enrel]

Tiers shouldn't be the reason why you play a game. Would it be nice to have more balance patches? Yes of-course. I'd love for this game to be so balanced that it's more down to how you play the matchup than anything else.

That being said! DEAR GOD STOP! Outside of like Diddy there really isn't a "problem" character and even he can be countered.

Right now Lucario is a strong fighter with obvious weaknesses. Set ups are a pain in the ass and some people can just spam him to death with no real recourse.

 

[Deleted member]

Everyone, to confirm I don't recommend allowing tiers to change your main or how you play. Take tiers like a grain of salt.

 

[RT]

Most people don't care about tiers. It's only a few select notable people who are tier whores. You know who they are.

 

[JipC]

lol. He is definitely top tier, just the 4-5 chars above him destroy his neutral. He destroys everyone else

Except Ganondorf apparently

 

[centauri_]

Except Ganondorf apparently

Pretty much all heavy, hard-hitting characters that can kill you in 4 hits give Lucario a bad time. Read somewhere that Lucario is actually a pretty good counter against most of the top-tiers that require small, non-killing combos to rack up damage, but is awful against most "low-tiers". I can mostly agree with that.

Just checked that eventhubs tier list... wat.

 

[Steam]

yeah, as bad as ganondorf is I refuse to use lucario for the matchup. I just use bowser for it.

 

[Deleted member]

Update-I don't want to see any curses or censors on my forums.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Lucarios b moves got a good buff but his a moves got nerfed hard. Brawl lucario had better combos. It lacks anything with a lasting hitbox on his default moveset. He definitely can't handle offensive pressure well with his lack of priority and range on his normal moves. His jab was able to handle offensive pressure in brawl but its way too slow now and his Nair out of shield will whiff a lot with its weird hitbox. I used that as well against high pressure offensive situations but it sucks now. Lucario doesn't seem as good as I initially thought. I just find myself using b moves a lot more often since his non special moves suck.

 

[Kenith]

If you main Lucario in the 4th game, you also know how difficult and frustrating he is to master. It's like he's level 90 and we only have the Thunder Badge.

This needs to go in someone's signature.

 

[Deleted member]

yeah, as bad as ganondorf is I refuse to use lucario for the matchup. I just use bowser for it.

When it comes to match ups, I realize Toon Links up-air is great against slow characters like Gannon, doe TL have a good matchup against Gannon?

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

@pikabrawler - i sent you a PM regarding swear words/censoring. Please check your inbox when you can.

 

[warionumbah2]

Even if he is top tier he isn't nearly as easy to pick up unlike Sheik and Diddy with the brain dead follow ups out of Down throw(for Sheik any throw).

Lucario is in the same boat as Yoshi they're both amazing but no one bothers to explore them since they're unique and aren't brain dead easy to pick up and win with.

 

[Enrel]

Lucarios b moves got a good buff but his a moves got nerfed hard. Brawl lucario had better combos. It lacks anything with a lasting hitbox on his default moveset. He definitely can't handle offensive pressure well with his lack of priority and range on his normal moves. His jab was able to handle offensive pressure in brawl but its way too slow now and his Nair out of shield will whiff a lot with its weird hitbox. I used that as well against high pressure offensive situations but it sucks now. Lucario doesn't seem as good as I initially thought. I just find myself using b moves a lot more often since his non special moves suck.

He is pretty good, but if you're expecting Brawl Lucario you're going to have a really bad time. I cannot begin to tell you how hard it is to just remember that his range got neutered, and I'm using him as my main.

But overall he has more killing potential and is faster too. It's just unlearning the old and going and learning the new.

 

[CaliburChamp]

He is pretty good, but if you're expecting Brawl Lucario you're going to have a really bad time. I cannot begin to tell you how hard it is to just remember that his range got neutered, and I'm using him as my main.

But overall he has more killing potential and is faster too. It's just unlearning the old and going and learning the new.

I got the hang of Smash 4 Lucario. I was always good at surviving in the high % and I'm very defensive oriented when it comes to fighting games in general, so I know Lucario would be a good fit for me. I just have problems landing safe neutral attacks against people, his B moves are somewhat safe but when fighting up close I think F-tilt or D-tilt is the safest moves we have for poking even more so than Jab. I hate how his jab just doesn't feel the same anymore and the 3 hits don't always combo correctly. So I find myself using D-tilt for pokes and F-tilts.

 

[Enrel]

Oh yeah that's for sure. I really do feel like only the end of the 3 hit combo thing should be the one with the knockback, because that causes some unnecessary damage.

You're right the tilts are faster and generally better options for Lucario. It's just sometimes that's not enough. I still thing running short hop Dair is a really good move to the the opponent in the air and vulnerable.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Oh yeah that's for sure. I really do feel like only the end of the 3 hit combo thing should be the one with the knockback, because that causes some unnecessary damage.

You're right the tilts are faster and generally better options for Lucario. It's just sometimes that's not enough. I still thing running short hop Dair is a really good move to the the opponent in the air and vulnerable.

I think its safe to say that Lucario lacks a GTFO move, his jabs don't do it for me. Which makes offensive characters pressure us much harder. We also have Down+B but we can't really abuse that. All I can think of his D-tilts for safe poking and F-tilt as a GTFO me move since his jabs seem unreliable.

 

[Enrel]

I think its safe to say that Lucario lacks a GTFO move, his jabs don't do it for me. Which makes offensive characters pressure us much harder. We also have Down+B but we can't really abuse that. All I can think of his D-tilts for safe poking and F-tilt as a GTFO me move since his jabs seem unreliable.

For a counter comparatively to other people's counters, Lucario's is very much lacking. It has the shortest timeframe of all of them to actually counter and the whole animation isn't even it. Needless to say it causes some frustration.

Lucario actually has a lot of amazing Killing Potential, but I so wish to god he had a spike or some reason to get off the stage at times.

 

[Deleted member]

That's funny, I find myself using combos with extremespeed speed in the air constantly.

 

[Karnu]

I personally think people think is he is better then he actually is.

He struggles

 

[Enrel]

I think it's more people are learning the Matchup with Lucario and it's painful at times.

 

[chaos_Leader]

yeah, as bad as ganondorf is I refuse to use lucario for the matchup. I just use bowser for it.

I dunno. I actually have a relatively okay time vs. Ganondorf. True, Lucario has all the same problems he has vs. any hard-hitting heavyweight. I still personally feel in my mastery of the character, I can actually outmaneuver (most) Ganondorfs; one of only a tiny handful of matchups I've found where Lucario can do a "high mobility" (at least compared certain lead-footed opponents) hit-and-run strategy.

It's no cakewalk that's for sure, a truly excellent Ganondorf is the stuff of nightmares for Lucario, I simply feel that in this matchup, I have to think about the match completely differently than most others in Smash4, and adjust my playstyle accordingly.

 

[|RK|]

For a counter comparatively to other people's counters, Lucario's is very much lacking. It has the shortest timeframe of all of them to actually counter and the whole animation isn't even it. Needless to say it causes some frustration.

Lucario actually has a lot of amazing Killing Potential, but I so wish to god he had a spike or some reason to get off the stage at times.

Greninja's counter is worse, from what I've seen.