Is Fox's reign over?

[ADAPT Chance]

Fox isn't the beast he was in Melee but he's not horrible by any means. Like others have said he's in between Melee and Brawl, I think overall he'll be fine in the long run.

 

[MarioMariox2]

Japan loved fox (Rank 8 in Brawl). If he's better now... Huh.

 

[Itora]

I'll probably play him more now that there's not ridiculous WD and techskill requirements to play him effectively. Him and Falco are way more fun if you take that out of the picture.

I am gonna miss short hopping lasers though... I wish they would've kept that. D:

 

[HdTyvek]

I'll probably play him more now that there's not ridiculous WD and techskill requirements to play him effectively. Him and Falco are way more fun if you take that out of the picture.

I am gonna miss short hopping lasers though... I wish they would've kept that. D:

i think thats what i liked about my short time playing falco, the amount of techskill required to playhim and fox. its sad kinda, if they make him easy to play and really good again i will kinda be pissed...

 

[Rage NF]

Seems to early to make this judgement,but okay voice your thoughts.

I completely agree with you in about 150%..

 

[thatoneguy1]

i just hope you can cancel down airs fast enough to get a grab out of it still, thats my favorite combo starter with him.

 

[LinkNIvy]

A balanced game shouldn't be continuing reigns, and he was nerfed hard in Brawl, anyway.

 

[Rhus]

i just hope you can cancel down airs fast enough to get a grab out of it still, thats my favorite combo starter with him.

By the looks of things, Fox's Dair leads to jabs/jab combos at early percents and into grabs a little later as long as the Dair is not allowed to finish by landing earlier than the last hit.

If jab cancelling is still in (I haven't heard) then he might be able to Dair>Jab>Jab>JCancel>Dthrow>Fair at earlier percents.

 

[thatoneguy1]

By the looks of things, Fox's Dair leads to jabs/jab combos at early percents and into grabs a little later as long as the Dair is not allowed to finish by landing earlier than the last hit.

If jab cancelling is still in (I haven't heard) then he might be able to Dair>Jab>Jab>JCancel>Dthrow>Fair at earlier percents.

this is why l-canceling is a good mechanic, it lets you have options.

 

[New_Dumal]

this is why l-canceling is a good mechanic, it lets you have options.

Tell me when the best option is to not L-cancel ?
This "better options" thing don't exist. The only good mechanic here would be remove some landing lag without L-cancel.
Anyway, this game don't have a stupid landing lag if you don't air dodge to the ground.
Sorry but... This "L-cancel lets you have options" thing, really is a myth.

 

[thatoneguy1]

no need to get so defensive, options are always a good thing even if they arent used 100% of the time. As for a specific example i cant think of one off the top of my head.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Just trying out Fox today and I noticed that his Reflector is not as good as it was before. In Brawl you could activate and deactivate it almost instantly, but in this one it remains active for about a second after you use it.

Hopefully someone develops good uses for Fox this time around. I dislike the idea of characters become unviable in games like this, specially when they were aiming so hard for balance this time around. If it gets worse, they could always release updates.

 

[thatoneguy1]

i heard you cant even jump cancel shines, is this true?

 

[jr22]

i heard you cant even jump cancel shines, is this true?

Yep. you cant jump cancel shine in smash4

 

[thatoneguy1]

r.i.p fox, still going to play him though.

 

[Praxis]

I just want to clarify for those of you who didn't play Brawl.

Brawl Fox is good. Like, *really* good. Like, even-with-Metaknight-on-neutrals good. Like can-deal-with-most-of-the-high-tiers-evenly good.

Or at least, he should be good. He gets spanked by every chain grab and infinite and abuse in the game. At least a half dozen characters have free ~100% combos or infinites on him that are really easy to set up in to (grab or ZSS Dsmash). Pikachu grabs you? Stock. ZSS dsmashes you? Stock. Sheik ftilts you? Stock. Falco grabs you? Most of your stock. Marth or Pit grabs you? 50% damage. Ice Climbers have a lot of easy setups in to grab that cost you your stock and are an 80:20 matchup.

Brawl Fox, in a game without chaingrabs, would be a fantastic character. He was unviable because he gets abused by certain mechanics that hurt him more than anyone else in Brawl.

i heard you cant even jump cancel shines, is this true?

This was true in Brawl too, but the shine was useful as an air stall and also safe for shinespikes as a result.

 

[NAKAT]

Fox is still good.

 

[Fenrir VII]

@ Praxis knows what's up.

Brawl Fox was EASILY a high tier char in Brawl, if all the lame Brawl stuff didn't exist.

So you can imagine my excitement about Fox in Smash 4, since A) he's gotten a couple really nice buffs and B) CGs are gone, and stale moves seem to be less of a problem at the moment.

 

[RPK]

I swear I remember making a giant post on the first page as to why fox is going to be amazing in this game :<

 

[Maniak]

The streams I've watched he still looks fun. I will main him but I'm also a noob

 

[Dr.Megaman]

I still have hope in my favorite space pilot...

 

[Maniak]

I still have hope in my favorite space pilot...

Ive been Glued to Shofu's stream and Fox still looks fun. Thats all Im hoping for! Still looks quick and nimble. Just wish there were still short hop lasers.

 

[Rhus]

Ive been Glued to Shofu's stream and Fox still looks fun. Thats all Im hoping for! Still looks quick and nimble. Just wish there were still short hop lasers.

Yeah, Shofu's Fox is fairly good, but I imagine it's hard to control him on the 3DS.

Fox looks fairly solid still and still has his fairly unique talents that almost no one else can boast about, such as high movement speed, accelerated jumps and unparalleled attack speed as well as a good jab game and low lag aerials.

I'm bummed about no SHDL and Shine being kind of sub par, but both are still at least somewhat useful.

 

[RPK]

Actually controlling him isnt incredibly hard at all...Atleast in brawl, which smash 4 fox is similar. In fact, I'm actually known in northern california for my 1 handed fox. Actually beatin people in tournament with it lol

 

[roymustang1990-]

I just want to clarify for those of you who didn't play Brawl.

Brawl Fox is good. Like, *really* good. Like, even-with-Metaknight-on-neutrals good. Like can-deal-with-most-of-the-high-tiers-evenly good.

Or at least, he should be good. He gets spanked by every chain grab and infinite and abuse in the game. At least a half dozen characters have free ~100% combos or infinites on him that are really easy to set up in to (grab or ZSS Dsmash). Pikachu grabs you? Stock. ZSS dsmashes you? Stock. Sheik ftilts you? Stock. Falco grabs you? Most of your stock. Marth or Pit grabs you? 50% damage. Ice Climbers have a lot of easy setups in to grab that cost you your stock and are an 80:20 matchup.

Brawl Fox, in a game without chaingrabs, would be a fantastic character. He was unviable because he gets abused by certain mechanics that hurt him more than anyone else in Brawl.



This was true in Brawl too, but the shine was useful as an air stall and also safe for shinespikes as a result.

Thanks for the informative post. I like learning. ^^

 

[Ganreizu]

I think people are exaggerating with the laser lag. Sure it's nowhere near as fast, but move staling is more prevalent in this game than any game before it and is probably the change that justified the addition of laser lag. If you can get 2-3 lasers during a recovery, that's 2-3 moves unstaling while tacking on damage for free. With more attacks that now kill in their own right at respectable percentages, laser is still going to be a strong option in the hands of a player that has a strong unstaling game.

 

[RPK]

Actually, there are still a great amount of moves that are still quite lagless, and with the exception of some characters, characters actually live to higher percentages because of vectoring.

EDIT: Lasering is still decently strong, but thats against someone thats stupid enough to not rush down a Fox.

 

[Nocally]

Fox doesn´t seem bad per say, overall he is quite average, but when everything is said and done, I believe Fox i still capable of great results if you put your time and effort into him.

 

[thatoneguy1]

Actually, there are still a great amount of moves that are still quite lagless, and with the exception of some characters, characters actually live to higher percentages because of vectoring.

EDIT: Lasering is still decently strong, but thats against someone thats stupid enough to not rush down a Fox.

so basically play fox with a rushdown style?

 

[RPK]

so basically play fox with a rushdown style?

No, I dont think he's meant to play a rushdown style, nor is meant to zone anymore with lasers like he used to. He's meant to be played with punishment type style. Atleast that's what I believe. Also I think his new lasers are going to play a big part. His normal one pales in comparison.

 

[Fex13]

umm... the reign of fox was in brawl over already.... and in this game he doesnt seem to be any better. probably mid-tierish

 

[thatoneguy1]

No, I dont think he's meant to play a rushdown style, nor is meant to zone anymore with lasers like he used to. He's meant to be played with punishment type style. Atleast that's what I believe. Also I think his new lasers are going to play a big part. His normal one pales in comparison.

hmm this may be a problem for me as i normally use fox to rushdown. Who knows maybe that will work out for me.

 

[RPK]

hmm this may be a problem for me as i normally use fox to rushdown. Who knows maybe that will work out for me.

Though thats just me. In casual matches, I always played him rushdown cause it was fun.

 

[McX]

Fox was borderline high rankings in tournaments in brawl, or he was competitively viable at most. He's had a few nerfs in sm4sh.
- No more short hopping lasers
- No more super powerful McCloud flips
- No more shine stalling

However, his speed is still a big factor in his gameplay. It's uncomfortable to play as fox on a 3ds. We haven't really seen what he can do yet. His bair still lags the same as it did in brawl, but supposedly it's worse for his other aerials in sm4sh.
His jab combo is easily escapable by vectoring and powershielding to break away. His utilt is still a viable combo option.
I don't know much else since I haven't laid hands on fox yet, but he should feel similar to brawl.

 

[Estwood]

20XX is over, but never lose faith in the king. I think a big part of why he's worse is that everyone dies at really high percents. But we'll always love you, it was a fun ride

 

[Praxis]

Fox was borderline high rankings in tournaments in brawl, or he was competitively viable at most. He's had a few nerfs in sm4sh.
- No more short hopping lasers
- No more super powerful McCloud flips
- No more shine stalling

However, his speed is still a big factor in his gameplay. It's uncomfortable to play as fox on a 3ds. We haven't really seen what he can do yet. His bair still lags the same as it did in brawl, but supposedly it's worse for his other aerials in sm4sh.
His jab combo is easily escapable by vectoring and powershielding to break away. His utilt is still a viable combo option.
I don't know much else since I haven't laid hands on fox yet, but he should feel similar to brawl.

There's more nerfs than I thought, now that I actually have the full game

His dair has more landing lag and cannot combo anymore. It feels pretty useless.

Between dair and laser and usmash nerfs, and jab > grab and jab > usmash mixups being removed, I don't feel as confident in him being high tier as I was :/ his recovery is buffed at least.

 

[Sir Tundra]

For those of you who don't know. Fox in brawl could jump out shine when he reflected a projectile. And he still can in ssb4. However its not really that useful since you the opponent is mostly likely far away from you too do anything to him/her.

 

[link2702]

fox's "reign" was over after melee.

Do non-competitive people seriously still think fox was op'd in brawl?

 

[Fenrir VII]

Once again, I agree with praxis. Approaching is very difficult with him, and he seems to lose most priority battles. Hopefully there's something I'm just missing

 

[roymustang1990-]

There's more nerfs than I thought, now that I actually have the full game

His dair has more landing lag and cannot combo anymore. It feels pretty useless.

Between dair and laser and usmash nerfs, and jab > grab and jab > usmash mixups being removed, I don't feel as confident in him being high tier as I was :/ his recovery is buffed at least.

Good grief,they'll practically removed fox's bread and butter then.Completely unnecessary nerfs.